Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[Meriweather]

You offered objective evidence. Testable claims and I performed the tests. Your religion failed them.

The only objective (physical evidence) I've offered is to research and study Eucharistic miracles, the Shroud of Turin, the cloak of Juan Diego, or even the miracles at Lourdes. None of my experiences have given me physical evidence. Which one of my experiences do you think have given me physical, scientific evidence?

The fact that it doesn't convince you because there's "subjective evidence" that you find more compelling simply says to me that you simply don't care if its true or not. You just want to believe. That's your position.

If you have formed the belief that I don't care if it is true or not, then you are no longer talking to me, but to a Meriweather you have formed in your own mind. I hate it when posters do that. So go talk to your Meriweather, the one who just "wants to believe."

It is not my position. And I'm beginning to feel very sorry I didn't read all of your posts made on this day before I bothered responding to any of them.

My position is that I don't believe because the objective evidence doesn't lead me to believe your or for that matter any god is likely to exist. And I don't accept subjective evidence whatever that is, (it sounds and seemed to be used in this conversation) like just another word for opinion to me.

That's why it's so tough to believe in God for me. To directly answer your OP again. My philosophical framework doesn't allow me to simply take things on faith and faith alone. And faith or "subjective evidence" is the only thing you offer, and it's directly contradicted by the objective evidence.

Is that something you can understand?

I did not present you with any objective/physical/scientific evidence. That must have been the Meriweather you made up in your own mind.

I understood that before your first post, something you failed to understand.

ETA: It seems you and I have gone as far as we can go. I see no reason to continue as you have left the discussion with me to have one with someone you have created in your own mind. Best wishes.

 

[Meriweather]

1) Public Schools.
2) False doctrine taught in churches.
3) Not all are God's "sheep" since His sheep know His voice.
4) People blaming God for bad things that happened in their lives.
5) The love of money or the various pleasures of habitual sin.

Great points! I wouldn't get me started on Public Schools!

 

[rightwinger]

. If you kill enough of God's enemies, etc. He'll be happy with you.

Christian Jihad

 

[The Irish Ram]

Lack of evidence there is a God.

1/4 of the Bible is prophecy. And they are specific.
God told Isaiah that in 150 years a man named Cyrus would free the Jews and send them back to Israel?
Now you. Tell me the name of any king, 150 years from now...

 

[GMCGeneral]

So all adult, non-Christians are bound for hell. Got it. Are all Christians equal or are there false Christian churches that will keep believers out of heaven? What about people who lived before Jesus?

People who were looking forward to Messiah are in Heaven today. And yes, there are false teachers masquerading as Chriatians like Joel Osteen etc. They need to be exposed and are an affront to the Gospel.

 

[hadit]

Christian Jihad

That is not following Christ, who NEVER commanded His followers to take the world by the sword. This is where you have to be careful, because there are a lot of people who commit evil in the name of Christ. You might as well point at the BLM rioters and claim all democrats support riots. If you want to say rioters do not represent what it means to be a democrat, you also have to allow Christians to condemn those who commit atrocities in Jesus' name.

 

[hadit]

An all powerdul being has enemies?

You can't harm God by declaring yourself His enemy. All you can do is hurt His heart as you are lost forever, but your freedom of choice allows you to be God's enemy, and He doesn't stop you from rebelling.

Let's all take a moment to ponder the absurdity of such an idea.

I'm talking in human terms. Tribalism divides us into camps and pitches camps against each other, and that's been the case through all human history. God's perspective is broader, as He views all mankind as His that He wants to redeem.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You can't harm God by declaring yourself His enemy. All you can do is hurt His heart as you are lost forever, but your freedom of choice allows you to be God's enemy, and He doesn't stop you from rebelling.

Right, I saw that was part of your point. It is an absurd idea, we agree.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

People who were looking forward to Messiah are in Heaven today. And yes, there are false teachers masquerading as Chriatians like Joel Osteen etc. They need to be exposed and are an affront to the Gospel.

What kind of disgusting god condemns that vast majority of those who have ever lived?

Gross. I wouldn't want to spend eternity with such a vile character.

 

[hadit]

Right, I saw that was part of your point. It is an absurd idea, we agree.

Unfortunately, people take on themselves the privilege of killing those they consider His enemy.

 

[GMCGeneral]

What kind of disgusting god condemns that vast majority of those who have ever lived?

Gross. I wouldn't want to spend eternity with such a vile character.

We condemn ourselves. Scripture states that G-d is not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance.

 

[rightwinger]

We condemn ourselves. Scripture states that G-d is not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance.

How do you worship a God that discards 2/3 of the earths population…….Just because of what they believe?

 

[Meriweather]

How do you worship a God that discards 2/3 of the earths population…….Just because of what they believe?

Which 2/3s of the world was "discarded"--and what belief?

 

[GMCGeneral]

How do you worship a God that discards 2/3 of the earths population…….Just because of what they believe?

It's because G-d has one and ONLY one way to Him. Our sin condemns us.

 

[Quantrill]

What kind of disgusting god condemns that vast majority of those who have ever lived?

Gross. I wouldn't want to spend eternity with such a vile character.

The kind of God that sacrificed His Son to pay for the sins of 'all'. So that faith is all that is required to be saved.

Well, if you remain in your sin's you will spend eternity with Him. (Heb. 12:29) "For our God is a consuming fire." The Lake of Fire is run by God. Satan is not the god of hell and the lake of fire. He is just a resident.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

How do you worship a God that discards 2/3 of the earths population…….Just because of what they believe?

It's easy, because He is God and is worthy of our worship. He is so worthy of our worship that it is wrong not to worship Him.

Because what one believes about Christ, reveals who they are.

Quantrill

 

[BreezeWood]

It's easy, because He is God and is worthy of our worship. He is so worthy of our worship that it is wrong not to worship Him.

Because what one believes about Christ, reveals who they are.

Quantrill

no one in the heavens worships anyone, all are equal -

worship is the fears and illiteracy during past times allowing for a monarchical control over peoples lives the furthest possibility for life in the everlasting ... the spirit is on its own trajectory controlled by no one.

 

[forkup]

The only objective (physical evidence) I've offered is to research and study Eucharistic miracles, the Shroud of Turin, the cloak of Juan Diego, or even the miracles at Lourdes. None of my experiences have given me physical evidence. Which one of my experiences do you think have given me physical, scientific evidence?


If you have formed the belief that I don't care if it is true or not, then you are no longer talking to me, but to a Meriweather you have formed in your own mind. I hate it when posters do that. So go talk to your Meriweather, the one who just "wants to believe."

It is not my position. And I'm beginning to feel very sorry I didn't read all of your posts made on this day before I bothered responding to any of them.



I did not present you with any objective/physical/scientific evidence. That must have been the Meriweather you made up in your own mind.

I understood that before your first post, something you failed to understand.

ETA: It seems you and I have gone as far as we can go. I see no reason to continue as you have left the discussion with me to have one with someone you have created in your own mind. Best wishes.

Actually it's not that I'm having a conversation with a Meriweather that only exists in my head. It's that the Meriweather who I'm talking to pretends she's someone else the moment she gets cornered.

For instance there's this Meriweather

Here we differ. I believe the Commandments, the Beatitudes, and many teachings are not only testable, but are meant to be tested. Blessed are the peacemakers... is one. Putting God first is another.

And than there's this Meriweather

I did not present you with any objective/physical/scientific evidence. That must have been the Meriweather you made up in your own mind.

And before you try it. You can't test something subjective that's why it's subjective.


The truth is you constantly make statements that can be tested objectively. You just don't like the results when they are. So you pretend that you don't. And then project your moving the goalposts on me.

 

[Quantrill]

no one in the heavens worships anyone, all are equal -

worship is the fears and illiteracy during past times allowing for a monarchical control over peoples lives the furthest possibility for life in the everlasting ... the spirit is on its own trajectory controlled by no one.

No, that is a lie straight out of hell. All in the heavens worship God and Jesus Christ Who are worthy of all creations worship.

Worship is the true result of the true acknowledgement of Who God and Christ are. Once in the presence of God and Christ, the knee and head will bow.

(Isaiah 6:1-6) "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

"Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

"And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

"And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

"Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. "

Quantrill

 

[forkup]

What you are showing with your own interpretation of what the Commandments and Beatitudes "really" mean is that one can move (forgive me for using the phrase as it is like beating a dead horse) the goal posts of the true meaning of the Commandment/Beatitude and change that original meaning into something over which to bicker or try a "Gotcha" argument.

Again, I am not trying to change your mind about any of the above; merely to explain why people of faith believe as they do. We see things differently.

By the way, just so you don't get the idea I missed this. I just quoted the plain text of what you considered something that you can test.

After which you proceeded to either ignore the text by giving historical context that didn't address the point. Excuse, God's commandments again without addressing the point, blame it on bad translations, simply lie about the implications because YOU personally after the secular society your lucky enough to belong decided that woman and men are equal. Something that wasn't historically the case and still isn't in theocracies that follow the Abrahamic God. And my personal favorite. Trying to claim that the 10 commandments are simply about man, and not actually commandments of man.

The idea that man and not God kills those that don't worship him and that therefore god is not responsible is bellied by the fact that the Bible, Torah and Koran is full of God ordering the killing or for that matter God killing scores of people that don't worship him. Those aren't problems in translation.

Again everytime you pretend I'm moving the goalposts, you are simply projecting.