CDZ Why don't American, so called, "feminists" go after the hijab...an actual symbol of oppression....

[JoeB131]

You people focus your attention on the Tom cat peeing in your petunias and ignore the saber tooth tiger with your toddler in its jaws. I possess more of what psychologists call executive function, so see the tiger as the more pressing concern.

I think that you use metaphors like that is telling. My Toddler in his jaws, eh?

Okay, let's look at statistics, shall we.

Hmmm....seems like the Domestic violence Tomcat is a lot more of a threat than the Jihadist sabertooth.

 

[JoeB131]

islam is Joey's favorite religion...That's quite common with Atheist for some reason

Naw, actually, I kind of also like Hindus - some of the nicest people you could ever meet. I'm met some Buddhists and Sikhs who are pretty nice.

Christians always want to impose their morality on us and the Jews are putting something over on people all the time, though.

 

[Jroc]

islam is Joey's favorite religion...That's quite common with Atheist for some reason

Naw, actually, I kind of also like Hindus - some of the nicest people you could ever meet. I'm met some Buddhists and Sikhs who are pretty nice.

Christians always want to impose their morality on us and the Jews are putting something over on people all the time, though.

Christians don't force anyone to convert, not anymore.. isalm does, sometimes under penalty of death...Why do you support barbarians?

 

[JoeB131]

Why do you require a women born under the yoke of Islam to remain a Muslim? Why don't you support the liberal value of freedom of belief, instead? One of the worst aspects of Islam is that it is something one is born in to and cannot possibly escape without placing one's life in danger. All those blasphemy and apostasy laws in Islamic countries make this so.

And how many Muslims are killed for leaving Islam?

Come on, give us a number from a credible source.

Since the topic is Feminism vs Islam, I would like to ask why you disparage a brave women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who places her life on the line for human rights.

Coyote hit this one perfectly. Ali and that other guy are more content to bash Islam than to reform it. I don't paint myself as a 'reformer" of Catholicism. I criticize it, quite a lot. But I don't consider myself a 'reformer" of it because I left that lifestyle anymore than I consider myself a reformer of Mormonism or Zionism (both of which I heavily criticize).

You pee on a flag in front of 100 people, 99 will look at you with disgust, and one will want to administer a beat-down. That's pretty much the extent of Ms. Ali's "bravery". He antagonizes as many people as possible, and then complains about the one who might take it too far.

 

[JoeB131]

its in the Koran-----Have you ever read the Koran?. MOST MUSLIMS have not----but I have---
in translation----I have at least three copies (maybe four) As to witnesses to the filth ----
I have lots of relatives who resided in lands now ISLAMIC since before the rapist pig was born----
and-----during the time arab hordes invaded those lands and who lived under the filth of
Islamic rule for CENTURIES----in fact even more than 1000 years. Want some anecdotal evidence?

Okay, so you don't have a source either. Thanks for playing.

Seriously, I think some of you people believe the Koran is the Necromonicon.

 

[JoeB131]

Christians don't force anyone to convert, not anymore.. isalm does, sometimes under penalty of death...Why do you support barbarians?

Wait, they don't? They were all the way up until the last century.

Guy, all humans are "Barbarians".

As I've said, my family was from Germany originally. The country that gave the world Mozart also gave it Hitler. (Although neither of them was actually German). Barbarism is relative.

A Palestinian in the Gaza who just got his school bombed by a Zionist jet might consider that "Barbaric".

 

[Jroc]

Jews are putting something over on people all the time, though.

goodness, where have I heard that one before.

Somebody help me out here. I remember this funny looking little guy with oily black hair and a short little mustache, but for the life of me, I can't remember his name.

Can anybody clue me in? Anybody? Anybody?

Ferris?

You misquoted me

 

[Jroc]

Christians don't force anyone to convert, not anymore.. isalm does, sometimes under penalty of death...Why do you support barbarians?

Wait, they don't? They were all the way up until the last century.

Guy, all humans are "Barbarians".

As I've said, my family was from Germany originally. The country that gave the world Mozart also gave it Hitler. (Although neither of them was actually German). Barbarism is relative.

A Palestinian in the Gaza who just got his school bombed by a Zionist jet might consider that "Barbaric".

Keep current genius...Jews don't seek to convert anyone...What was your point again?

 

[JoeB131]

Again, do you have a source for this?

Abu Dawud 2150

Sigh...

The Mistranslation Of The Hadeeth In Sunan Abu Dawud 2:2150


Abu Sa'eed Al-KhudrI narrated that the Messenger of Allah sent an expedition to Awas on the Day of Uunain, and they met the enemy, fought them, and won the battle. They captured some slaves, but some of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah felt uncomfortable in having relations with them because of their pagan husbands. At this, Allah revealed: "And chaste, free women, except for those whom your right hand possesses..."meaning that they are allowed for you after their waiting periods have finished. [3]

To sum up. The translation of the Sunan Abu Dawud hadeeth contains a grave mistake. The Arabic text doesnt contain the phrase "in the presence of". This is further shown by the translation of Saheeh Muslim, which contains the hadeeth with the same wording, and the translation of Sunan Abu Dawud provided by Darussalam.


So, no, Mohammed didn't order his men to rape women while their husbands watched......

 

[Dogmaphobe]

And how many Muslims are killed for leaving Islam?

r.

Which countries still outlaw apostasy and blasphemy?

 

[JoeB131]

And how many Muslims are killed for leaving Islam?

r.

Which countries still outlaw apostasy and blasphemy?

You didn't answer the question. Let's try again.

How many Muslims were killed last year for "leaving Islam".

Not Blaspheming or Apostacizing, but just leaving?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You misquoted me

Are you trying to put something over on me?

Joe says it's in your blood.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

And how many Muslims are killed for leaving Islam?

r.

Which countries still outlaw apostasy and blasphemy?

You didn't answer the question. Let's try again.

How many Muslims were killed last year for "leaving Islam".

Not Blaspheming or Apostacizing, but just leaving?

Apostasy is the act of leaving.

You shouldn't embarrass yourself like that.

 

[JoeB131]

I doubt if they're taking polls when they behead and drag people through the streets

Yes, it would have been nice if we left well-organized governments in those countries, instead of overthrowing them over weapons that didn't exist...

Oh, wait.

 

[JoeB131]

Keep current genius...Jews don't seek to convert anyone...What was your point again?

I could make a snarky comment here, but I won't.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't dont find her particularly compelling as an agent of change. She seems more intent on demonizing Islam as a whole then changing it. She has no patience for women who try to change it from within. I feel she uses her platform for attacking rather than change.

I put her up there with Ben Carson. Somewhere along the line, Ben Carson found he could make a lot of money telling white people what they wanted to hear. He's never been about telling black kids to study hard and stay in school, like he did because he had the support of the social programs he now despises.

Somewhere along the line, Ms. Ali found that telling sad stories about her FGM to anti-Muslim types was lucrative, leaving out the part where FGM is a cultural and not a religious practice.

 

[Coyote]

It is however and until now it has been a contentious but highly civil conversation.

you are naïve------the QUESTION----is an attack on DIVINE SHARIAH LAW. ----an attack on "allah"

That is not the topic however.

Since the topic is Feminism vs Islam, I would like to ask why you disparage a brave women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who places her life on the line for human rights.

I don't dont find her particularly compelling as an agent of change. She seems more intent on demonizing Islam as a whole then changing it. She has no patience for women who try to change it from within. I feel she uses her platform for attacking rather than change.

You indicated that you only support women who remain Islamic rather than those who reject Islam. By indicating such, you place yourself in alignment with Islamic views towards apostasy and against freedom of belief.

I don't "only support" those who remain within the faith. I have more respect for their positions because it is coming from a genuine desire to change not destroy. I have found that some of the most stridently anti-religious voices are often themselves people raised within strict religious families. Scatch the back of an athiest and you will find an ex.

I have no idea how you manage to twist it into aligning with their views on apostacy and such.

Why do you require a women born under the yoke of Islam to remain a Muslim? Why don't you support the liberal value of freedom of belief, instead? One of the worst aspects of Islam is that it is something one is born in to and cannot possibly escape without placing one's life in danger. All those blasphemy and apostasy laws in Islamic countries make this so.

1. I dont.
2. I do, which is what my arguments in this thread have been adressing.

The rest. Depends on the country doesnt it? We keep religion and law seperate. Those that dont have problems. In terms of reform those are the things that Islamic societies need to address right?

As was the case with slavery in the 19th century, there is an entire system that needs to be addressed, and you and others are entirely unwilling to address the system.

What entire system do you mean exactly? It seems many Muslims in Western countries, like the US, have found a balance between religion and modern values.

I haven't twisted anything, coyote. You are a very devoted servant to Islam and you hate this brave woman for exercising her free will by leaving Islam and embracing western liberalism. This places you in complete alignment with Islamists and it complete opposition to liberalism .

Implicit in the notion of freedom of religion is freedom from it. For a poster who uses freedom of religion to support Islamic practices, you sure don't apply the principle to those who want to escape islam's yoke.

You regularly distort what I say and this is just another example. You ignore every point I make and make the discussion about me instead. I am not surprised. It is inevitable.

I don’t hate her for leaving Islam. I don’t hate her period. I’ve explained my view on it but you have invented something completely different. Silly me thinking we could actually have a discussion without you making it about me. Mac is a far more honest debater.

 

[Coyote]

Dogmaphobe, are you an American citizen? I think I remember you are.
So why are you so worried about hijabs in foreign countries when our President is currently upholding domestic abusers on his staff with all deference and sympathy? In my state, over half the homicides are domestic violence. It's a real thing happening in this country in real time that truly harms any woman that comes in contact with it.
So why are you so focused on Muslim women's head coverings in other countries?

I believe in human rights, Oldlady.

Why don't you?

Just because the radical leftists here don't care what happens to women born under the oppressive yoke of Islam doesn't mean I am just like them in turning a blind eye. I do not support Trump, nor the systems of domestic abuse.

In a world where one woman faces disfigurement lest she disobey her Islamic owner and another women faces pressure to have sex with her boss, unlike you radical leftists, I see a DEGREE of difference involved.

You people focus your attention on the Tom cat peeing in your petunias and ignore the saber tooth tiger with your toddler in its jaws. I possess more of what psychologists call executive function, so see the tiger as the more pressing concern.

I don't disagree that human rights are human rights, whatever they might be.
I don't know if hijabs are a more pressing concern than domestic violence in our own country, though. DV kills American women. DV is still ignored/dismissed in our own country by very influential men. So I'm not sure which I believe is the "tiger" at this point.

Btw, another women faces pressure to have sex with her boss,
This is not domestic violence. It is sexual harassment.

Domestic violence in this country is a terrible thing and a real problem.

That is why you sure won't find me defending it by saying "well, such and such do it too"

You essentially did just that by marginalizing it in the Amish community.

Every single time you involve yourself in a thread where the subject matter is Islam, you demand people talk about Christianity, instead. If Mac wanted this to be about a tiny Christian sect instead of Islam, I have every confidence he would have done so.

You are simply trying to serve Islam by indulging in Ty quoque arguments here. The subject is Islam. You want totalk about anything BUT Islam.

Again you are marginalizing domestic violence in non Muslim communities and attempting to redirect by attacking the speaker.

 

[irosie91]

Coyote DID, indeed, state that she would 'have more respect' for Ayaan Hirsi Ali if the had REMAINED
a muslim------------lets all spit on Hirsi Ali for converting--------have a stone, coyote. In my lifetime I have
encountered lots of people who left their religions------It did not occur to me to spit on them for saying why.
We even have a piece of scum here claiming she did it for MONEY. My sense about Ayaan Hirsi Ali
is that she is trying to WARN PEOPLE about being potential victims of islam --------Anyone of the idiots
present in cyberspace today see the movie which was on TCM (I think two days ago) AMERIKA |
AMERIKA??? -------Elia Kazan was a fantastic movie director----he did EAST OF EDEN and ON THE
WATERFRONT -----a real genius. I believe that some people on this board (good morning Coyote)
could watch the movie AMERIKA AMERIKA and miss the fact that it serves in part as an expose of the
evils OF ISLAMIC RULE in the Ottoman empire----why evils?? ELIA WAS BORN A DHIMMI but his
family did not stick around to be slaughtered as were MILLIONS of Christian Ottoman Turkish/greeks----
bad Elia ----he should have struggled to CHANGE THE DHIMMI SYSTEM and "reform islam" rather than escape it and to a very small extent kinda DESCRIBE THE "beauty" THAT IT IS. I believe that if coyote saw the film----
the fact that the "beautry of dhimmia" was presented would slide right over her head

 

[JoeB131]

Coyote DID, indeed, state that she would 'have more respect' for Ayaan Hirsi Ali if the had REMAINED
a muslim------------lets all spit on Hirsi Ali for converting--------have a stone, coyote. In my lifetime I have
encountered lots of people who left their religions------It did not occur to me to spit on them for saying why.
We even have a piece of scum here claiming she did it for MONEY.

But here's the thing, once you leave a religion, you don't have a say on how it should be run or what it should believe anymore. (not that you have much of a say when you are in it.)

Just don't tell me you are out to "reform" a religion when your primary audience is people who hate that religion looking for someone to validate their hate.