CDZ Why don't American, so called, "feminists" go after the hijab...an actual symbol of oppression....

[Dogmaphobe]

Then we just keep going.
.

Speaking of keep going, you might like this. Susan Moller Okin was a true liberal feminist, and the world lost a clear voice when she died.

Susan Moller Okin: Is Multiculturalism Bad for Women?

 

[irosie91]

Then we just keep going.
.

Speaking of keep going, you might like this. Susan Moller Okin was a true liberal feminist, and the world lost a clear voice when she died.

Susan Moller Okin: Is Multiculturalism Bad for Women?

excellent discussion but too damned long. It is a sociology TEXTBOOK on "WOMEN IN
SOCIETY"

 

[OldLady]

Dogmaphobe, are you an American citizen? I think I remember you are.
So why are you so worried about hijabs in foreign countries when our President is currently upholding domestic abusers on his staff with all deference and sympathy? In my state, over half the homicides are domestic violence. It's a real thing happening in this country in real time that truly harms any woman that comes in contact with it.
So why are you so focused on Muslim women's head coverings in other countries?

 

[irosie91]

Dogmaphobe, are you an American citizen? I think I remember you are.
So why are you so worried about hijabs in foreign countries when our President is currently upholding domestic abusers on his staff with all deference and sympathy? In my state, over half the homicides are domestic violence. It's a real thing happening in this country in real time that truly harms any woman that comes in contact with it.
So why are you so focused on Muslim women's head coverings in other countries?

its a free country------I have not noticed that DOG is "obsessed" over anything in particular. We are all
engaged in fairly casual discussion. I had an IMPASSIONED conversation just a few minutes ago
about my poorly functioning dishwasher--------NOT A COSMIC ISSUE

 

[danielpalos]

Western women are insisting on not losing their human sexuality.

 

[OldLady]

Dogmaphobe, are you an American citizen? I think I remember you are.
So why are you so worried about hijabs in foreign countries when our President is currently upholding domestic abusers on his staff with all deference and sympathy? In my state, over half the homicides are domestic violence. It's a real thing happening in this country in real time that truly harms any woman that comes in contact with it.
So why are you so focused on Muslim women's head coverings in other countries?

its a free country------I have not noticed that DOG is "obsessed" over anything in particular. We are all
engaged in fairly casual discussion. I had an IMPASSIONED conversation just a few minutes ago
about my poorly functioning dishwasher--------NOT A COSMIC ISSUE

You chose the term "obsessed," not me. No one said he couldn't have a discussion about it, either. Now I await an answer to my question.

 

[danielpalos]

I love it when women stop arguments over fucking with Tradition, by insisting, not while they are around.

 

[irosie91]

Dogmaphobe, are you an American citizen? I think I remember you are.
So why are you so worried about hijabs in foreign countries when our President is currently upholding domestic abusers on his staff with all deference and sympathy? In my state, over half the homicides are domestic violence. It's a real thing happening in this country in real time that truly harms any woman that comes in contact with it.
So why are you so focused on Muslim women's head coverings in other countries?

its a free country------I have not noticed that DOG is "obsessed" over anything in particular. We are all
engaged in fairly casual discussion. I had an IMPASSIONED conversation just a few minutes ago
about my poorly functioning dishwasher--------NOT A COSMIC ISSUE

You chose the term "obsessed," not me. No one said he couldn't have a discussion about it, either. Now I await an answer to my question.

your question? "why should hijabs be an issue when domestic violence in the USA is also an issue"???
IM (very) H O they both constitute issues

 

[danielpalos]

Women should insist on their modern right in modern times, to not let their guy friends suffer from blue balls.

Nice girl friends do, in modern times.

There should be no gleam or need, for any sexual forms of assault and battery; unless she likes it.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Dogmaphobe, are you an American citizen? I think I remember you are.
So why are you so worried about hijabs in foreign countries when our President is currently upholding domestic abusers on his staff with all deference and sympathy? In my state, over half the homicides are domestic violence. It's a real thing happening in this country in real time that truly harms any woman that comes in contact with it.
So why are you so focused on Muslim women's head coverings in other countries?

I believe in human rights, Oldlady.

Why don't you?

Just because the radical leftists here don't care what happens to women born under the oppressive yoke of Islam doesn't mean I am just like them in turning a blind eye. I do not support Trump, nor the systems of domestic abuse.

In a world where one woman faces disfigurement lest she disobey her Islamic owner and another women faces pressure to have sex with her boss, unlike you radical leftists, I see a DEGREE of difference involved.

You people focus your attention on the Tom cat peeing in your petunias and ignore the saber tooth tiger with your toddler in its jaws. I possess more of what psychologists call executive function, so see the tiger as the more pressing concern.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Guys this is CDZ, get back on topic which is essentially in whether hijab is oppression. No insults. No put downs.

this thread should not be in CDZ--------the question, itself, precludes a CDZ discussion.

It is however and until now it has been a contentious but highly civil conversation.

you are naïve------the QUESTION----is an attack on DIVINE SHARIAH LAW. ----an attack on "allah"

That is not the topic however.

Since the topic is Feminism vs Islam, I would like to ask why you disparage a brave women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who places her life on the line for human rights.

You indicated that you only support women who remain Islamic rather than those who reject Islam. By indicating such, you place yourself in alignment with Islamic views towards apostasy and against freedom of belief.

Why do you require a women born under the yoke of Islam to remain a Muslim? Why don't you support the liberal value of freedom of belief, instead? One of the worst aspects of Islam is that it is something one is born in to and cannot possibly escape without placing one's life in danger. All those blasphemy and apostasy laws in Islamic countries make this so.

As was the case with slavery in the 19th century, there is an entire system that needs to be addressed, and you and others are entirely unwilling to address the system.

 

[OldLady]

Dogmaphobe, are you an American citizen? I think I remember you are.
So why are you so worried about hijabs in foreign countries when our President is currently upholding domestic abusers on his staff with all deference and sympathy? In my state, over half the homicides are domestic violence. It's a real thing happening in this country in real time that truly harms any woman that comes in contact with it.
So why are you so focused on Muslim women's head coverings in other countries?

I believe in human rights, Oldlady.

Why don't you?

Just because the radical leftists here don't care what happens to women born under the oppressive yoke of Islam doesn't mean I am just like them in turning a blind eye. I do not support Trump, nor the systems of domestic abuse.

In a world where one woman faces disfigurement lest she disobey her Islamic owner and another women faces pressure to have sex with her boss, unlike you radical leftists, I see a DEGREE of difference involved.

You people focus your attention on the Tom cat peeing in your petunias and ignore the saber tooth tiger with your toddler in its jaws. I possess more of what psychologists call executive function, so see the tiger as the more pressing concern.

I don't disagree that human rights are human rights, whatever they might be.
I don't know if hijabs are a more pressing concern than domestic violence in our own country, though. DV kills American women. DV is still ignored/dismissed in our own country by very influential men. So I'm not sure which I believe is the "tiger" at this point.

Btw, another women faces pressure to have sex with her boss,
This is not domestic violence. It is sexual harassment.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Dogmaphobe, are you an American citizen? I think I remember you are.
So why are you so worried about hijabs in foreign countries when our President is currently upholding domestic abusers on his staff with all deference and sympathy? In my state, over half the homicides are domestic violence. It's a real thing happening in this country in real time that truly harms any woman that comes in contact with it.
So why are you so focused on Muslim women's head coverings in other countries?

I believe in human rights, Oldlady.

Why don't you?

Just because the radical leftists here don't care what happens to women born under the oppressive yoke of Islam doesn't mean I am just like them in turning a blind eye. I do not support Trump, nor the systems of domestic abuse.

In a world where one woman faces disfigurement lest she disobey her Islamic owner and another women faces pressure to have sex with her boss, unlike you radical leftists, I see a DEGREE of difference involved.

You people focus your attention on the Tom cat peeing in your petunias and ignore the saber tooth tiger with your toddler in its jaws. I possess more of what psychologists call executive function, so see the tiger as the more pressing concern.

I don't disagree that human rights are human rights, whatever they might be.
I don't know if hijabs are a more pressing concern than domestic violence in our own country, though. DV kills American women. DV is still ignored/dismissed in our own country by very influential men. So I'm not sure which I believe is the "tiger" at this point.

Btw, another women faces pressure to have sex with her boss,
This is not domestic violence. It is sexual harassment.

Domestic violence in this country is a terrible thing and a real problem.

That is why you sure won't find me defending it by saying "well, such and such do it too"

 

[Coyote]

Guys this is CDZ, get back on topic which is essentially in whether hijab is oppression. No insults. No put downs.

this thread should not be in CDZ--------the question, itself, precludes a CDZ discussion.

It is however and until now it has been a contentious but highly civil conversation.

you are naïve------the QUESTION----is an attack on DIVINE SHARIAH LAW. ----an attack on "allah"

That is not the topic however.

Since the topic is Feminism vs Islam, I would like to ask why you disparage a brave women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who places her life on the line for human rights.

I don't dont find her particularly compelling as an agent of change. She seems more intent on demonizing Islam as a whole then changing it. She has no patience for women who try to change it from within. I feel she uses her platform for attacking rather than change.

You indicated that you only support women who remain Islamic rather than those who reject Islam. By indicating such, you place yourself in alignment with Islamic views towards apostasy and against freedom of belief.

I don't "only support" those who remain within the faith. I have more respect for their positions because it is coming from a genuine desire to change not destroy. I have found that some of the most stridently anti-religious voices are often themselves people raised within strict religious families. Scatch the back of an athiest and you will find an ex.

I have no idea how you manage to twist it into aligning with their views on apostacy and such.

Why do you require a women born under the yoke of Islam to remain a Muslim? Why don't you support the liberal value of freedom of belief, instead? One of the worst aspects of Islam is that it is something one is born in to and cannot possibly escape without placing one's life in danger. All those blasphemy and apostasy laws in Islamic countries make this so.

1. I dont.
2. I do, which is what my arguments in this thread have been adressing.

The rest. Depends on the country doesnt it? We keep religion and law seperate. Those that dont have problems. In terms of reform those are the things that Islamic societies need to address right?

As was the case with slavery in the 19th century, there is an entire system that needs to be addressed, and you and others are entirely unwilling to address the system.

What entire system do you mean exactly? It seems many Muslims in Western countries, like the US, have found a balance between religion and modern values.

 

[Coyote]

Dogmaphobe, are you an American citizen? I think I remember you are.
So why are you so worried about hijabs in foreign countries when our President is currently upholding domestic abusers on his staff with all deference and sympathy? In my state, over half the homicides are domestic violence. It's a real thing happening in this country in real time that truly harms any woman that comes in contact with it.
So why are you so focused on Muslim women's head coverings in other countries?

I believe in human rights, Oldlady.

Why don't you?

Just because the radical leftists here don't care what happens to women born under the oppressive yoke of Islam doesn't mean I am just like them in turning a blind eye. I do not support Trump, nor the systems of domestic abuse.

In a world where one woman faces disfigurement lest she disobey her Islamic owner and another women faces pressure to have sex with her boss, unlike you radical leftists, I see a DEGREE of difference involved.

You people focus your attention on the Tom cat peeing in your petunias and ignore the saber tooth tiger with your toddler in its jaws. I possess more of what psychologists call executive function, so see the tiger as the more pressing concern.

I don't disagree that human rights are human rights, whatever they might be.
I don't know if hijabs are a more pressing concern than domestic violence in our own country, though. DV kills American women. DV is still ignored/dismissed in our own country by very influential men. So I'm not sure which I believe is the "tiger" at this point.

Btw, another women faces pressure to have sex with her boss,
This is not domestic violence. It is sexual harassment.

Domestic violence in this country is a terrible thing and a real problem.

That is why you sure won't find me defending it by saying "well, such and such do it too"

You essentially did just that by marginalizing it in the Amish community.

 

[sartre play]

Not sure why this discussion about the wearing or not wearing a Hijab is a political right against political left discussion. I would resist the requirement to dress in any ones idea of what is acceptable, except my own. this country had a big fight over wearing or not wearing a bra, think about that one for a while.

 

[danielpalos]

In my opinion, women exercising their right to be good friends in modern times, should preclude any malevolent, male sentiment that would precede, acts like this:

String of brutal rapes shocks India - CNN

 

[JoeB131]

There is plenty of evidence for both. His very livelihood involved murder and theft, and he even ordered his followers to rape women in front of their husbands and then kill the men.

Your being so utterly ignorant does not make truth an expression of "Islamophobia"

Again, do you have a source for this?

 

[irosie91]

There is plenty of evidence for both. His very livelihood involved murder and theft, and he even ordered his followers to rape women in front of their husbands and then kill the men.

Your being so utterly ignorant does not make truth an expression of "Islamophobia"

Again, do you have a source for this?

its in the Koran-----Have you ever read the Koran?. MOST MUSLIMS have not----but I have---
in translation----I have at least three copies (maybe four) As to witnesses to the filth ----
I have lots of relatives who resided in lands now ISLAMIC since before the rapist pig was born----
and-----during the time arab hordes invaded those lands and who lived under the filth of
Islamic rule for CENTURIES----in fact even more than 1000 years. Want some anecdotal evidence?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

There is plenty of evidence for both. His very livelihood involved murder and theft, and he even ordered his followers to rape women in front of their husbands and then kill the men.

Your being so utterly ignorant does not make truth an expression of "Islamophobia"

Again, do you have a source for this?

Abu Dawud 2150