"Why Doesn't God Reveal Its Existence?" and other FAQ

[sealybobo]

Gotta love how the atheists think they can prove they are right by closing their eyes, sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming there is no proof of gods existence. Who do they think they are convincing? And why are they recruiting? For what, to be disciples of Satan or of self?

What a fool you must be in person. Who's closing their eyes/minds/brains? We have used rational, reasoned logic to explain to you that there is absolutely zero good evidence a god exists. You are swallowing a fairy tale that's been passed on for thousands of years. The only difference between your church and a cult is the membership size.

In fact, you all sort of admit it when you admit that you "just have to have faith".

Who are we convincing? Well we aren't convincing old people who are too far brainwashed. Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

 

[emilynghiem]

Until I see proof of God, I can't say He exists. I don't need to prove you wrong, but you do need to prove you right if you want me to get on board with your religion.

Dear [MENTION=44543]Steven_R[/MENTION] and [MENTION=49831]BillyP[/MENTION]
What we can prove is that
1. people who are either theistic or nontheistic in their beliefs
CAN reconcile views on life, as RKMB pointed out by focusing on the laws patterns or order in life, and NOT suffer from division and differences in our ways of viewing life
as either impersonal laws/forces or as a personified being or source.
2. the difference between whether theists and nontheists can reconcile
is not based on religion, but based on ability to forgive those differences.

We can actually prove a correlation between
* unforgiveness of differences and inability to reconcile
* forgiveness of differences and ability to reconcile without forcing either side to change views

So the issue is whether we can forgive and include our differences.
We may always have people who see the world in terms of a personified deity or as impersonal laws/forces that are universal without personifying these as God/Jesus.

That is not the issue, which religion you are.

What matters is if you can see the universal laws and patterns going on regardless of religious viewpoint, and recognize we are still talking about the same concepts in life.

 

[emilynghiem]

Until I see proof of God, I can't say He exists. I don't need to prove you wrong, but you do need to prove you right if you want me to get on board with your religion.

You can't see the universe around you? What are you blind?

[MENTION=43831]RKMBrown[/MENTION] [MENTION=44543]Steven_R[/MENTION] [MENTION=49831]BillyP[/MENTION]
I think he is saying he does not have faith
that the law of the universe/forces of nature
are the same thing as what people mean by believing in God.

This is like how people do not believe they are seeking the same Truth or Justice.
They believe other people believe in something that isn't the same or reconcileable
with what they believe.

This is caused by unresolved or unforgiven conflicts.

Once people let go and forgive the fact we have these conflicts,
underneath we can restore faith that we actually WANT the same Truth or Justice,
but just have not trusted each other's political or religious groups to want the same.

There is a psychological factor going on blocking people from sharing the same
faith that all people want to achieve truth and justice which is ultimately
what God and Jesus represent.

It's not their fault they don't see it, look how crazy the political and religious leaders
get. Of course it does not look like we can ever agree to follow the same God's truth.

that is why we need "divine forgiveness" beyond our own will to overcome these
barriers that otherwise block our minds and faith from connecting on the same page.

If we've never seen proof that people can reconcile across religious and political
lines, why should anyone suddenly believe in something they've never seen?

 

[emilynghiem]

Gotta love how the atheists think they can prove they are right by closing their eyes, sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming there is no proof of gods existence. Who do they think they are convincing? And why are they recruiting? For what, to be disciples of Satan or of self?

What a fool you must be in person. Who's closing their eyes/minds/brains? We have used rational, reasoned logic to explain to you that there is absolutely zero good evidence a god exists. You are swallowing a fairy tale that's been passed on for thousands of years. The only difference between your church and a cult is the membership size.

In fact, you all sort of admit it when you admit that you "just have to have faith".

Who are we convincing? Well we aren't convincing old people who are too far brainwashed. Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]
by your standards we should not believe in Equal Justice or Universal Truth either,
because no such things have ever been established or achieved much less proven to exist.

Of course it is faith based.

If you are going to throw out God because this has never been proven,
then also throw out the Constitution and concepts of equal protection of interests
because that is a big fat lie/fairytale sold on faith as well!

Clearly you are defining God to be something that doesn't exist.
So you are selectively rejecting that.

If you defined God's truth to be what drives you to seek consistent science to back up reality, and you defined Jesus to be the higher Justice you seek, then you would find
these concepts of Truth and Jesus equally faithbased as God/Jesus.

But you are choosing not to reconcile. You do not have faith and do not want to be aligned with these people you choose to be against by defining the terms to be hostile to yours.

You can set up all the strawman arguments you want, picking the most falliable false and contradictory assessments of what God and Jesus mean, and still argue in circles as
the people who do the opposite and keep defining God and Jesus to be self-referential.

But if you start with what you know or believe to be universally true about life,
the naturally existing laws of how truth nature science and justice work,
and then align the concepts in religion with that, you'd find these are consistent.

And the contradictions you point out can all be corrected after you align with
the consistent definitions and principles behind what God and Jesus mean universally,
instead of hanging your arguments on the conflicting perceptions that aren't universal.

 

[BillyP]

You can't see the universe around you? What are you blind?

I'm a physicist. I need more than that.

What does your limited view of the cosmos have to do with the existence of the fabric within which your limited view exists? That you believe yourself to be a physicist is proof of god's existence. Without the fabric of space and time (my god) you could not express your belief. Further, you would not exist at all.

So space and time is your god? So your god can be warped?

 

[BillyP]

Gotta love how the atheists think they can prove they are right by closing their eyes, sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming there is no proof of gods existence. Who do they think they are convincing? And why are they recruiting? For what, to be disciples of Satan or of self?

What a fool you must be in person. Who's closing their eyes/minds/brains? We have used rational, reasoned logic to explain to you that there is absolutely zero good evidence a god exists. You are swallowing a fairy tale that's been passed on for thousands of years. The only difference between your church and a cult is the membership size.

In fact, you all sort of admit it when you admit that you "just have to have faith".

Who are we convincing? Well we aren't convincing old people who are too far brainwashed. Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]
by your standards we should not believe in Equal Justice or Universal Truth either,
because no such things have ever been established or achieved much less proven to exist.

Of course it is faith based.

If you are going to throw out God because this has never been proven,
then also throw out the Constitution and concepts of equal protection of interests
because that is a big fat lie/fairytale sold on faith as well!

Clearly you are defining God to be something that doesn't exist.
So you are selectively rejecting that.

If you defined God's truth to be what drives you to seek consistent science to back up reality, and you defined Jesus to be the higher Justice you seek, then you would find
these concepts of Truth and Jesus equally faithbased as God/Jesus.

But you are choosing not to reconcile. You do not have faith and do not want to be aligned with these people you choose to be against by defining the terms to be hostile to yours.

You can set up all the strawman arguments you want, picking the most falliable false and contradictory assessments of what God and Jesus mean, and still argue in circles as
the people who do the opposite and keep defining God and Jesus to be self-referential.

But if you start with what you know or believe to be universally true about life,
the naturally existing laws of how truth nature science and justice work,
and then align the concepts in religion with that, you'd find these are consistent.

And the contradictions you point out can all be corrected after you align with
the consistent definitions and principles behind what God and Jesus mean universally,
instead of hanging your arguments on the conflicting perceptions that aren't universal.

Wow, that's a lot of malarkey for one post. Religion and truth aren't consistent, the laws of nature don't align with religion either, and Jesus was possibly gay.

 

[RKMBrown]

I'm a physicist. I need more than that.

What does your limited view of the cosmos have to do with the existence of the fabric within which your limited view exists? That you believe yourself to be a physicist is proof of god's existence. Without the fabric of space and time (my god) you could not express your belief. Further, you would not exist at all.

So space and time is your god? So your god can be warped?

Exactly.

 

[RKMBrown]

What a fool you must be in person. Who's closing their eyes/minds/brains? We have used rational, reasoned logic to explain to you that there is absolutely zero good evidence a god exists. You are swallowing a fairy tale that's been passed on for thousands of years. The only difference between your church and a cult is the membership size.

In fact, you all sort of admit it when you admit that you "just have to have faith".

Who are we convincing? Well we aren't convincing old people who are too far brainwashed. Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]
by your standards we should not believe in Equal Justice or Universal Truth either,
because no such things have ever been established or achieved much less proven to exist.

Of course it is faith based.

If you are going to throw out God because this has never been proven,
then also throw out the Constitution and concepts of equal protection of interests
because that is a big fat lie/fairytale sold on faith as well!

Clearly you are defining God to be something that doesn't exist.
So you are selectively rejecting that.

If you defined God's truth to be what drives you to seek consistent science to back up reality, and you defined Jesus to be the higher Justice you seek, then you would find
these concepts of Truth and Jesus equally faithbased as God/Jesus.

But you are choosing not to reconcile. You do not have faith and do not want to be aligned with these people you choose to be against by defining the terms to be hostile to yours.

You can set up all the strawman arguments you want, picking the most falliable false and contradictory assessments of what God and Jesus mean, and still argue in circles as
the people who do the opposite and keep defining God and Jesus to be self-referential.

But if you start with what you know or believe to be universally true about life,
the naturally existing laws of how truth nature science and justice work,
and then align the concepts in religion with that, you'd find these are consistent.

And the contradictions you point out can all be corrected after you align with
the consistent definitions and principles behind what God and Jesus mean universally,
instead of hanging your arguments on the conflicting perceptions that aren't universal.

Wow, that's a lot of malarkey for one post. Religion and truth aren't consistent, the laws of nature don't align with religion either, and Jesus was possibly gay.

And you are just a POS troll.

 

[BillyP]

What does your limited view of the cosmos have to do with the existence of the fabric within which your limited view exists? That you believe yourself to be a physicist is proof of god's existence. Without the fabric of space and time (my god) you could not express your belief. Further, you would not exist at all.

So space and time is your god? So your god can be warped?

Exactly.

Space and time were created in the Big Bang. So your god was created? By the BB? I'll give you points for originality, I hadn't heard that one before.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I'm a physicist. I need more than that.

What does your limited view of the cosmos have to do with the existence of the fabric within which your limited view exists? That you believe yourself to be a physicist is proof of god's existence. Without the fabric of space and time (my god) you could not express your belief. Further, you would not exist at all.

So space and time is your god? So your god can be warped?

That's actually really funny. So funny I didn't believe you came up with it and googled the phrase and variants to see who came up with it but couldn't find it. GUess it's your's.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]
by your standards we should not believe in Equal Justice or Universal Truth either,
because no such things have ever been established or achieved much less proven to exist.

Of course it is faith based.

If you are going to throw out God because this has never been proven,
then also throw out the Constitution and concepts of equal protection of interests
because that is a big fat lie/fairytale sold on faith as well!

Clearly you are defining God to be something that doesn't exist.
So you are selectively rejecting that.

If you defined God's truth to be what drives you to seek consistent science to back up reality, and you defined Jesus to be the higher Justice you seek, then you would find
these concepts of Truth and Jesus equally faithbased as God/Jesus.

But you are choosing not to reconcile. You do not have faith and do not want to be aligned with these people you choose to be against by defining the terms to be hostile to yours.

You can set up all the strawman arguments you want, picking the most falliable false and contradictory assessments of what God and Jesus mean, and still argue in circles as
the people who do the opposite and keep defining God and Jesus to be self-referential.

But if you start with what you know or believe to be universally true about life,
the naturally existing laws of how truth nature science and justice work,
and then align the concepts in religion with that, you'd find these are consistent.

And the contradictions you point out can all be corrected after you align with
the consistent definitions and principles behind what God and Jesus mean universally,
instead of hanging your arguments on the conflicting perceptions that aren't universal.

Wow, that's a lot of malarkey for one post. Religion and truth aren't consistent, the laws of nature don't align with religion either, and Jesus was possibly gay.

And you are just a POS troll.

Isn't trolling (or libelous) if it's true.

 

[Chuckt]

Then your parents and/or preachers are god(s) because they gave it to you, like a disease.

And I do realize ignorance is bliss. I also realize it must feel really good to know you have a god looking out for you and a heaven waiting for you. If I believed in hell I'd want to believe/hope/pray that god favors me too. What do the Jehovas say? Only how many people get into heaven? Do you believe that? Or the Mormons who say god told them your religion is bullshit. Do you believe that? Or the muslims who believe you're going to hell. Do you believe that? You believe what your society told you to believe. And if you go against your society and you are of a different faith like scientology, I am fascinated with people who convert from one religion to another or a person who should have found jesus but instead found mohammad.

Jesus called me to Him and gave me my salvation. Faith comes from God, by grace alone and not works.

How come he doesn't call on all those muslims in the middle east? Oh yea, they've been brainwashed from birth to believe a different fairy tale. I forgot.

Sorry buddy but Jesus didn't call on you, your church did. They need members and money bad.

The idea of faith comes from your church. Religion is a big business and they offer 2 things, a lie that you will live on after you die, and friends. Its like being in a fraternity. Remember in college you said you would never pay for friends? Well that's what you are doing when you put money in the collection plate or pay your annual dues or give 10% of your salary to the church. Brilliant really. Like George Carlin said, "greatest bullshit story ever".

There are some Muslims having dreams from God but they aren't allowed to speak up about it so you will never hear.

 

[RKMBrown]

Wow, that's a lot of malarkey for one post. Religion and truth aren't consistent, the laws of nature don't align with religion either, and Jesus was possibly gay.

And you are just a POS troll.

Isn't trolling (or libelous) if it's true.

Bullshit.

 

[sealybobo]

Gotta love how the atheists think they can prove they are right by closing their eyes, sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming there is no proof of gods existence. Who do they think they are convincing? And why are they recruiting? For what, to be disciples of Satan or of self?

What a fool you must be in person. Who's closing their eyes/minds/brains? We have used rational, reasoned logic to explain to you that there is absolutely zero good evidence a god exists. You are swallowing a fairy tale that's been passed on for thousands of years. The only difference between your church and a cult is the membership size.

In fact, you all sort of admit it when you admit that you "just have to have faith".

Who are we convincing? Well we aren't convincing old people who are too far brainwashed. Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]

If you defined God's truth to be what drives you to seek consistent science to back up reality, and you defined Jesus to be the higher Justice you seek, then you would find
these concepts of Truth and Jesus equally faithbased as God/Jesus.

But you are choosing not to reconcile. You do not have faith and do not want to be aligned with these people you choose to be against by defining the terms to be hostile to yours.

You can set up all the strawman arguments you want, picking the most falliable false and contradictory assessments of what God and Jesus mean, and still argue in circles as
the people who do the opposite and keep defining God and Jesus to be self-referential.

And the contradictions you point out can all be corrected after you align with
the consistent definitions and principles behind what God and Jesus mean universally,
instead of hanging your arguments on the conflicting perceptions that aren't universal.

I'm not defining god's truth because then you have suckered me into the premise that god even exists. First you have to convince me that god exists before we start talking about his truth.

So what is god's truth? Once you tell me what the truth is, then ask yourself why a god is necessary to teach those things?

So lets see how god is doing. How are people in the middle east applying his "truth"? They are blowing themselves up. How's god's chosen people doing in Israel? How are we doing here in America. Seems horribly.

So maybe if we give up the god schtick and just teach common sense right and wrong, we'll have a better society and less violence, hate and intolerance. I can see it now. First off, we wouldn't have middle class Americans dumb enough to argue for lower wages and more tax breaks for the rich.

So what are god's truth? I bet they can be true with or without a god. God's just in the way. A lie not worth telling anymore. Stop it. Can't you think of any other reasons to be good besides a fear of hell or your god? I'm good even though I don't believe.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

What a fool you must be in person. Who's closing their eyes/minds/brains? We have used rational, reasoned logic to explain to you that there is absolutely zero good evidence a god exists. You are swallowing a fairy tale that's been passed on for thousands of years. The only difference between your church and a cult is the membership size.

In fact, you all sort of admit it when you admit that you "just have to have faith".

Who are we convincing? Well we aren't convincing old people who are too far brainwashed. Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]

If you defined God's truth to be what drives you to seek consistent science to back up reality, and you defined Jesus to be the higher Justice you seek, then you would find
these concepts of Truth and Jesus equally faithbased as God/Jesus.

But you are choosing not to reconcile. You do not have faith and do not want to be aligned with these people you choose to be against by defining the terms to be hostile to yours.

You can set up all the strawman arguments you want, picking the most falliable false and contradictory assessments of what God and Jesus mean, and still argue in circles as
the people who do the opposite and keep defining God and Jesus to be self-referential.

And the contradictions you point out can all be corrected after you align with
the consistent definitions and principles behind what God and Jesus mean universally,
instead of hanging your arguments on the conflicting perceptions that aren't universal.

I'm not defining god's truth because then you have suckered me into the premise that god even exists. First you have to convince me that god exists before we start talking about his truth.

So what is god's truth? Once you tell me what the truth is, then ask yourself why a god is necessary to teach those things?

So lets see how god is doing. How are people in the middle east applying his "truth"? They are blowing themselves up. How's god's chosen people doing in Israel? How are we doing here in America. Seems horribly.

So maybe if we give up the god schtick and just teach common sense right and wrong, we'll have a better society and less violence, hate and intolerance. I can see it now. First off, we wouldn't have middle class Americans dumb enough to argue for lower wages and more tax breaks for the rich.

So what are god's truth? I bet they can be true with or without a god. God's just in the way. A lie not worth telling anymore. Stop it. Can't you think of any other reasons to be good besides a fear of hell or your god? I'm good even though I don't believe.

I prefer thinkning of it this way: I absolutely believe in God. I just don't believe a word of any religion.

 

[sealybobo]

What a fool you must be in person. Who's closing their eyes/minds/brains? We have used rational, reasoned logic to explain to you that there is absolutely zero good evidence a god exists. You are swallowing a fairy tale that's been passed on for thousands of years. The only difference between your church and a cult is the membership size.

In fact, you all sort of admit it when you admit that you "just have to have faith".

Who are we convincing? Well we aren't convincing old people who are too far brainwashed. Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]
by your standards we should not believe in Equal Justice or Universal Truth either,
because no such things have ever been established or achieved much less proven to exist.

Of course it is faith based.

If you are going to throw out God because this has never been proven,
then also throw out the Constitution and concepts of equal protection of interests
because that is a big fat lie/fairytale sold on faith as well!

Clearly you are defining God to be something that doesn't exist.
So you are selectively rejecting that.

If you defined God's truth to be what drives you to seek consistent science to back up reality, and you defined Jesus to be the higher Justice you seek, then you would find
these concepts of Truth and Jesus equally faithbased as God/Jesus.

But you are choosing not to reconcile. You do not have faith and do not want to be aligned with these people you choose to be against by defining the terms to be hostile to yours.

You can set up all the strawman arguments you want, picking the most falliable false and contradictory assessments of what God and Jesus mean, and still argue in circles as
the people who do the opposite and keep defining God and Jesus to be self-referential.

But if you start with what you know or believe to be universally true about life,
the naturally existing laws of how truth nature science and justice work,
and then align the concepts in religion with that, you'd find these are consistent.

And the contradictions you point out can all be corrected after you align with
the consistent definitions and principles behind what God and Jesus mean universally,
instead of hanging your arguments on the conflicting perceptions that aren't universal.

Wow, that's a lot of malarkey for one post. Religion and truth aren't consistent, the laws of nature don't align with religion either, and Jesus was possibly gay.

I know. She always talks like this. I think it's her nice way of saying we need to stop focusing on the fact that god is fake and instead focus on the good it is suppose to be teaching.

My problem with that is I think believing in a god makes you gullible and I think the powerful that rule/run this country use this ignorance to control us. I'm certain if we all one day woke up and more people were atheists than theists we would have better common sense run government, better science and healthcare, more fair taxation, less war, better alternative energy, a greener planet, a better middle class and less poverty, lower crime, lower crime rates, etc. And all this would lead to things like lower number of people getting abortions.

 

[sealybobo]

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]

If you defined God's truth to be what drives you to seek consistent science to back up reality, and you defined Jesus to be the higher Justice you seek, then you would find
these concepts of Truth and Jesus equally faithbased as God/Jesus.

But you are choosing not to reconcile. You do not have faith and do not want to be aligned with these people you choose to be against by defining the terms to be hostile to yours.

You can set up all the strawman arguments you want, picking the most falliable false and contradictory assessments of what God and Jesus mean, and still argue in circles as
the people who do the opposite and keep defining God and Jesus to be self-referential.

And the contradictions you point out can all be corrected after you align with
the consistent definitions and principles behind what God and Jesus mean universally,
instead of hanging your arguments on the conflicting perceptions that aren't universal.

I'm not defining god's truth because then you have suckered me into the premise that god even exists. First you have to convince me that god exists before we start talking about his truth.

So what is god's truth? Once you tell me what the truth is, then ask yourself why a god is necessary to teach those things?

So lets see how god is doing. How are people in the middle east applying his "truth"? They are blowing themselves up. How's god's chosen people doing in Israel? How are we doing here in America. Seems horribly.

So maybe if we give up the god schtick and just teach common sense right and wrong, we'll have a better society and less violence, hate and intolerance. I can see it now. First off, we wouldn't have middle class Americans dumb enough to argue for lower wages and more tax breaks for the rich.

So what are god's truth? I bet they can be true with or without a god. God's just in the way. A lie not worth telling anymore. Stop it. Can't you think of any other reasons to be good besides a fear of hell or your god? I'm good even though I don't believe.

I prefer thinkning of it this way: I absolutely believe in God. I just don't believe a word of any religion.

Then you believe only because you want to believe. But for giggles, what makes you believe there is a god?

 

[ninja007]

God exists. The proof is all around you.