Zone1 Why does anything matter?

[Woodznutz]

Wisdom doesnt come with age. I know a lot of old dumb people.

I don't know what other older people know as they are famously quiet about what they know. It's also frustrating to pass on wisdom to others so many oldsters don't bother. Pride diminishes with age, which opens the door for wisdom to enter.

 

[ding]

Intelligence has generally increased over the past century, a phenomenon known as the Flynn effect, with IQ scores rising by approximately 3 points per decade in many nations. This increase is largely attributed to environmental factors—such as improved education, better nutrition, and more complex, abstract, and cognitively demanding environments—rather than genetic changes.
Key Trends and Factors:

• The Flynn Effect: The long-term, steady rise in IQ scores observed throughout the 20th century.

Physiologically speaking man today is no different than man 10,000 years ago.

Physiologically, humans today are fundamentally the same species (Homo sapiens) as those living 10,000 years ago, possessing the same general anatomical blueprint. However, the assertion that there is no difference is not entirely accurate, as 10,000 years has allowed for significant, albeit minor, evolutionary adaptations to diet, environment, and disease.
Similarities (The Anatomical Blueprint)

• Brain and Body: Anatomically modern humans have existed for roughly 300,000 years. A human from 10,000 years ago (the Neolithic period) would be physically indistinguishable from a modern human if dressed in modern clothing.
• Cognition: The neural mechanisms for speech, language, and cognitive ability reached their present state between 100,000 and 50,000 years ago.

Physiological Differences (Last 10,000 Years)
While the basic structure is the same, several adaptations have emerged:

• Lactose Tolerance: The ability to digest milk into adulthood (lactase persistence) is a relatively recent mutation that spread rapidly among dairy-farming populations starting around 7,000–10,000 years ago.
• Immune System Adaptation: Due to living in closer proximity to livestock and in denser, settled communities, humans developed stronger resistances to infectious diseases. However, this also increased the frequency of genes associated with inflammatory disorders like Crohn's disease.
• Skin Pigmentation: Fair skin, which aids in vitamin D production in low-sunlight regions, is a relatively recent adaptation, largely occurring within the last 10,000–12,000 years.
• Stature and Bone Strength: Paleolithic (pre-farming) humans were generally more robust and, in some periods, taller than immediate post-agricultural humans, who suffered from poorer nutrition. Modern humans are currently taller and heavier than those 10,000 years ago, largely due to improved nutrition and medical care, not solely genetics.
• Smaller Jaws and Teeth: There has been a continuous trend toward smaller teeth and jaws over the last 10,000–30,000 years, often resulting in impacted wisdom teeth in modern humans.
• Brain Size: The human brain has actually shrunk by roughly 5 to 10% in the last 10,000 years, although the significance of this (e.g., increased efficiency vs. reduced intelligence) is still debated.

Conclusion
While 10,000 years is a short time in evolutionary terms, it has been enough for rapid adaptation in specific genes (about 7% of the human genome). Therefore, while we are the same species, humans today are not identical to their 10,000-year-old ancestors.

 

[Hafar1014]

No, that statement is not true. Wisdom is not a fixed trait determined early in life, but rather a, lifelong, intentional pursuit developed through experience, reflection, and learning. While early wisdom is advantageous, it is entirely possible to gain wisdom later, as it is a continuous, active process, rather than a passive byproduct of aging.
Key points regarding wisdom:

• Not Linked to Age: Old age does not guarantee wisdom. It is possible to be young and wise or old and unwise.
• Active Pursuit: Wisdom is cultivated through intention, purpose, and, in some views, a relationship with God.
• Learning from Experience: It comes from, reflecting on life’s challenges and mistakes.
• Never Too Late: Because it is developed over time, it can be acquired at any stage of life.

Therefore, not having wisdom early in life does not preclude having it later.

The psychology of wisdom is called coherence. Thats the ability to understand the emotional messages form the limbic system that go up to the prefrontal cortex. Emotion determines how intelligence is applied and understood. Emotions are developed early in life. Wisdom results form the social interactions in the first 13 years of your life. It doesnt come with age as there are many old people who have little or no wisdom

 

[ding]

The psychology of wisdom is called coherence. Thats the ability to understand the emotional messages form the limbic system that go up to the prefrontal cortex. Emotion determines how intelligence is applied and understood. Emotions are developed early in life. Wisdom results form the social interactions in the first 13 years of your life. It doesnt come with age as there are many old people who have little or no wisdom.

I'm going to stick with this.

 

[Hafar1014]

Physiologically speaking man today is no different than man 10,000 years ago.

Physiologically, humans today are fundamentally the same species (Homo sapiens) as those living 10,000 years ago, possessing the same general anatomical blueprint. However, the assertion that there is no difference is not entirely accurate, as 10,000 years has allowed for significant, albeit minor, evolutionary adaptations to diet, environment, and disease.
Similarities (The Anatomical Blueprint)

• Brain and Body: Anatomically modern humans have existed for roughly 300,000 years. A human from 10,000 years ago (the Neolithic period) would be physically indistinguishable from a modern human if dressed in modern clothing.
• Cognition: The neural mechanisms for speech, language, and cognitive ability reached their present state between 100,000 and 50,000 years ago.

Physiological Differences (Last 10,000 Years)
While the basic structure is the same, several adaptations have emerged:

• Lactose Tolerance: The ability to digest milk into adulthood (lactase persistence) is a relatively recent mutation that spread rapidly among dairy-farming populations starting around 7,000–10,000 years ago.
• Immune System Adaptation: Due to living in closer proximity to livestock and in denser, settled communities, humans developed stronger resistances to infectious diseases. However, this also increased the frequency of genes associated with inflammatory disorders like Crohn's disease.
• Skin Pigmentation: Fair skin, which aids in vitamin D production in low-sunlight regions, is a relatively recent adaptation, largely occurring within the last 10,000–12,000 years.
• Stature and Bone Strength: Paleolithic (pre-farming) humans were generally more robust and, in some periods, taller than immediate post-agricultural humans, who suffered from poorer nutrition. Modern humans are currently taller and heavier than those 10,000 years ago, largely due to improved nutrition and medical care, not solely genetics.
• Smaller Jaws and Teeth: There has been a continuous trend toward smaller teeth and jaws over the last 10,000–30,000 years, often resulting in impacted wisdom teeth in modern humans.
• Brain Size: The human brain has actually shrunk by roughly 5 to 10% in the last 10,000 years, although the significance of this (e.g., increased efficiency vs. reduced intelligence) is still debated.

Conclusion
While 10,000 years is a short time in evolutionary terms, it has been enough for rapid adaptation in specific genes (about 7% of the human genome). Therefore, while we are the same species, humans today are not identical to their 10,000-year-old ancestors.

We are taller larger stronger and smarter than any man 10,000 years ago. If you look at clothes only 200 years old you will see they are small. Armor used by the Greeks 1000 years ago would fit a child by todays standards. I was in Greece and looked at it. Im 5 6 and the armor would have been too small for me.
Google AI is no substitute for an actual education and observation.

IQ has increased in the past 120 years

 

[ding]

We are taller larger stronger and smarter than any man 10,000 years ago. If you look at clothes only 200 years old you will see they are small. Armor used by the Greeks 1000 years ago would fit a child by todays standards. I was in Greece and looked at it. Im 5 6 and the armor would have been too small for me.
Google AI is no substitute for an actual education and observation.

IQ has increased in the past 120 years

Physiologically we are no different today than we were 10,000 years ago.

 

[Hafar1014]

Physiologically we are no different today than we were 10,000 years ago.

100% false and not even possible

How have we changed since our species first appeared?​

• Author(s)Fran Dorey
• Updated08/02/21
• Read time2 minutes

Click to enlarge imageToggle Caption
This image is made from multiple photographs and data to construct the best approximation of what earth looks like from outer space. Most of the data came from MODIS on a satellite 700km above the surface. Taken Feb 8 2002. Image: NASA compsite
© NASA

Overview​

We have undergone change since our species first evolved. Some changes were universal whereas others were more regional in effect. The changes apparent in worldwide populations include a decrease in both overall body size and brain size as well as a reduction in jaw and tooth proportions. Regional populations have also evolved different physical and genetic characteristics in response to varying climates and lifestyles.

Smaller bodies​

We are now generally shorter, lighter and smaller boned than our ancestors were 100,000 years ago. The decrease has been gradual but has been most noticeable in the last 10,000 years. However, there has been some slight reversal to this trend in the last few centuries as the average height has started to increase.

The factors that affect body size are complex. They involve interactions between genetics, environment and lifestyle practices such as diet and technology.

Average height of​

This information is based on the average heights of European males because better statistics exist for this population, but the general trend is worldwide.

• 40,000 years ago: European males – 183 cm (6 feet). Cro-Magnon people were the first modern humans (Homo sapiens) to inhabit Europe. These hunter-gatherers lived a physically demanding lifestyle that would have required greater body strength than the average human today. Their recent African ancestry may have also affected their height, as tall, long-limbed builds are useful adaptations to the warmer African climate.
• 10,000 years ago: European males – 162.5cm (5 ft 4 inches). A dramatic reduction in the size of humans occurred at this time. Many scientists think that this reduction was influenced by global climatic change and the adoption of agriculture. Agricultural communities suffered from malnutrition as a result of failed crops and a more restricted diet. Furthermore, a close association with domestic livestock introduced new diseases into human populations.
• 600 years ago: European males – 165 cm (5 ft 5 inches). Poor diet and health were the main causes for the shorter stature at this time.
• Today: European males – 175 cm (5ft 9 inches). There has been an increase in height over the last few hundred years. In part, this increase is due to improved diet and health care. There may also be a genetic link as industrial expansion and urbanisation has brought together genetically isolated people and reduced the impacts of inbreeding due to a greater mixing of populations and their genes.

Smaller brains​

For the last two million years there has been a trend toward a bigger brain that has affected many species in our family tree. This trend has seen a reversal in our own species and our brains are now the smallest they have been at any time in the past 100,000 years. Most of this decrease occurred in the last 6,000 years. In part, this is related to a decrease in body size that also occurred during this period, however, other factors are probably also involved.

Our brains now average about 100-150 cubic centimetres less than when our species first appeared.

• 100,000 years ago: average brain size: 1500cc
• 12,000 years ago: average brain size: 1450cc
• Today: average brain size: 1350cc

Smaller teeth and jaws​

The trend toward smaller jaws and teeth that was seen in our ancestors has continued in our own species. In fact, some people today do not have enough space in their jaws to fit their 3rd molars or wisdom teeth.

Overall, these changes have occurred in proportion with a decrease in body size. However, over the last 10,000 years dietary changes and technology have played a major role.

A decrease in size has occurred in the jaws and teeth of Homo sapiens over the last 30,000 years. However, there has been a very slight reversal in this trend in the last century as teeth have increased in size. This is partly related to the introduction of fluoride, which thickens dental enamel, so making teeth a little larger.

Developing physical diversity: All one species but looking different​

Humans today show an enormous diversity in appearance, however this diversity was not apparent in early Homo sapiens. Early members of our species lived in Africa and had evolved physical characteristics that were similar to each other in order to survive in that climate. When humans started to spread to different parts of the world about 100,000 years ago, they encountered a variety of different climatic conditions and evolved new physical adaptations more suitable to those new climates.

Recent DNA studies (since 2007) confirm that genetic traits have changed or adapted to new environments during this time. In fact, the rate of change of DNA, and thus the rate of evolution, has accelerated in the last 40,000 years. Areas of the human genome still seem to be undergoing selection for things such as disease and skin colour.

It also appears that some physical features have been inherited from interbreeding with other ancient human species. An international team, led from CL, Aix-Marseille University and the Open University, found the the gene TBX15 was linked with genes found in ancient Denisovans, providing a clue to the origin of the gene in our species. This gene helps determine lip shape via body fat distribution and may have been useful to Denisovans in the cold climates of their Central Asian homelands.

Physical characteristics such as skin and eye colour, hair type and colour and body shape are determined by genetics, but can also be influenced by the environment. Over long periods of time, the environment will act on the genes to develop particular characteristics within a population.

All one species – how climate affects physical characteristics​

• Body builds: Short, stocky builds are typical of humans living in cold climates. The reduced surface area compared to weight allows more body heat to be retained. A thin, long-limbed build is typical of humans in hot regions. The larger skin surface compared to weight allows for body heat to be lost more easily.
• Skin colour: Lighter skin allows the penetration of the sun’s UV rays. These rays help the body to synthesise vitamin D. Darker skin protects the body from absorbing too many UV rays. This can cause cancer or destroy important vitamins and minerals.
• Noses: People living in hot, humid climates tend to have broad, flat noses that allow inhaled air to be moistened and the moisture in exhaled air to be retained. People living in hot, dry climates typically have narrowed, projecting noses. This type of nose reduces the amount of water that is lost from the lungs during breathing. People living in cold, dry climates generally have smaller, longer and narrower noses. This type of nose moistens and warms the incoming air.
• Hair: Tight, curly hair keeps the hair off the neck and exposes more areas of the scalp than straight hair. This helps with cooling and evaporation of sweat. Straight hair is common in people living in colder climates as it keeps the neck and head warm. Straight hair also allows cold moisture to run off the scalp more easily.
• Face shape: Inuits have adapted to extreme cold by retaining layers of fat on their faces for additional warmth. Populations in northern Asia and the Arctic tend to have broad, flat faces as these reduce the effects of frostbite.
• Mouth shape: Thick lips have a larger surface area to help evaporate moisture and cool the body. The larger surface also allows cooling by moistening of the lips.
• Eyes: The epicanthic fold common among Northern and Eastern Asian populations is an adaptation for protecting the eye from the hard driving snow typical in these regions, and also to reduce snow glare. Blue eyes are better adapted for vision in regions where there is reduced light, as they let in more light than darker coloured eyes.
• Additional: Australian Aboriginals of the Central Desert have an unusual physical adaptation to living in a climate where it can be freezing for short periods, such as during cold desert nights. They have evolved the ability to drop their bodies to low temperatures without triggering the usual reflex of shivering.

Further reading

Bonfante B et al. 'A GWAS in Latin Americans identifies novel face shape loci, implicating VPS13B and a Denisovan introgressed region in facial variation', Science Advances volume 7 (2021)

 

[ding]

Author(s)Fran Dorey

You don't understand what she is saying.

Based on information from the Australian Museum where Fran Dorey is a subject expert, the scientific consensus she presents is that humans 10,000 years ago were not materially different in terms of anatomy or brain capacity compared to modern humans.

Key points regarding this viewpoint:

• Anatomical Similarity: Humans 10,000 years ago (early agriculturalists) were Homo sapiens, just like people today, and possessed the same general brain size and physical capabilities.
• Minor Changes: While we are not fundamentally different, human populations have experienced ongoing evolution, such as a trend towards becoming lighter and smaller-boned over the past 10,000 years, influenced by changes in diet and lifestyle (the advent of agriculture).
• Cultural vs. Biological Evolution: The major changes between humans 10,000 years ago and today are largely cultural, technological, and environmental, rather than significant biological or "material" evolution.

Therefore, while minor, gradual physical changes have occurred over the last 10,000 years, Dorey’s, and the Australian Museum's perspective, is that the fundamental biological and cognitive structure of the human species has remained essentially the same.

 

[ding]

Science Advances volume 7 (2021)

Based on the available scientific literature, including studies often highlighted in publications like Science and Nature, there is no evidence that humans today are fundamentally more intelligent—genetically or biologically—than humans from 10,000 years ago.

• Genetics and Cognitive Capacity: Research indicates that the cognitive, genetic, and anatomical capacity of Homo sapiens has remained essentially the same for at least the last 10,000 to 50,000 years.
• Brain Structure: Ancient Homo sapiens possessed brains similar in size and structure to modern humans, and if an infant from 10,000 years ago were raised in a modern environment, they would likely be as intelligent as a modern human.
• Genomic Studies: Studies, including those analyzing ancient DNA, have shown that ancient individuals (such as from 3,700–4,100 years ago) had polygenic scores for intelligence in line with modern humans, suggesting intelligence is a stable or neutral trait over that timeframe.
• Knowledge vs. Intelligence: While modern humans have access to vastly more accumulated knowledge, technology, and information, this represents environmental, educational, and cultural advancement rather than a higher innate cognitive ability compared to ancestors.

Note: While some studies in the field of human evolution have suggested that early human ancestors (many thousands of years ago) may have faced intense natural selection pressures that favored high intelligence for survival, this is typically compared to much earlier ancestors, not the relatively recent 10,000-year window.

 

[BreezeWood]

If you have children it does matter to you. If you don't have children ....... then nothing really does matter at all.

nothing matters to any being ...

the heavenly guidance to keep their sabbath, the creation of life and garden earth holy is what matters - for all beings than selective and selfish apartience the most evil, paterfamilias that has failed upon humanity in the most stark terms possible. glast.

 

[alang1216]

You don't believe "does God exist" and "who is God" are two different arguments? Why?

Please rewrite without the word "God" in it. Using 'creator of the universe' and 'Yahweh' would work for me.

 

[BreezeWood]

If you dont have it early in life you never will

that's silly stupid and just dumb ... every teenager on earth is a mountain of wisdom.

who dies in hope is no different than who has found it - who gives up simply perishes.

 

[ding]

Please rewrite without the word "God" in it. Using 'creator of the universe' and 'Yahweh' would work for me.

It doesn't change what I asked. You can't begin to know who the Creator is until you believe there is a Creator.

 

[BreezeWood]

Wisdom results form the social interactions in the first 13 years of your life.

and you just celebrated your 18th birthday ...

 

[alang1216]

And what is real? You think that the material universe is real? Have you ever considered that the material universe is in a constant state of change, and as such, what it was a second ago no longer is ad never will be again? In fact, the laws of entropy tell us that all that is will eventually devolve into nothingness.

So, if the material universe is so elusive and temporal, was it even "real" to begin with? After all, how can something substantive and real simply vanish into nothingness? Had you ever considered that what is really real, exists outside of the material universe of smoke and mirrors?

As has been said already, we each need to assign value to things in life to give life meaning and purpose. Without it, we have no reason to get out of bed in the morning. As the Bible says, hope deferred makes the heart sick, which is wisdom from the book of wisdom. So, for me, wisdom is simply learning to place your hope and value in things that are eternal and not temporal, that is, learning to focus on what really matters.

For me, matter is not what really matters. What matters to me is a person's character. Unfortunately, science does not address the later.

The Mississippi River is millions of years old, the water in it is a few weeks old. Both are real. Relationships and people's characters are immaterial but very real.

 

[alang1216]

Feel free to believe that technology isn't dumbing you down. I just listed some of the ways it is.

Modern humans do not necessarily depend more on their raw ability to think than people 6,000 years ago, but the nature of that dependence has shifted from immediate survival-based cognitive tasks to complex, information-driven problem-solving. While modern society requires navigating vastly more information, our cognitive capacity (brain power) is not significantly greater than that of our ancestors, and in some ways, may be less utilized due to reliance on technology.
Here is a breakdown of the comparison:

1. Cognitive Demand: Ancient vs. Modern

• 6,000 Years Ago (Early Urban/Agricultural Societies): People in the Neolithic/early Bronze Age needed to master intimate, local knowledge to survive. This included understanding seasonal cycles, botany for farming, animal behavior, and complex social negotiation within groups. Their "intellectual" demand was high in terms of practical, survival-based critical thinking.
• Modern Humans: We operate in a highly abstract, globalized environment. We rely on complex, specialized knowledge (engineering, economics, law) that is accumulated, rather than individually invented. While a modern office worker may feel more intellectually stressed, the cognitive load of navigating a dangerous, untamed environment 6,000 years ago was equally, if not more, demanding.

2. The Myth of Higher Intelligence

• No Evolution in Brain Size: There is no evidence that human intelligence has increased in the last 50,000 years. In fact, some studies suggest average cranial capacity has decreased slightly over the past few thousand years, potentially due to the invention of writing, which freed humanity from needing to memorize massive amounts of data.
• "Cognitive Malleability": Modern humans are not inherently smarter; we are just more educated and exposed to more information. If a human from 6,000 years ago were transported to today and educated, they would likely be as smart as the average person today.

3. Shift in Dependence: Knowledge vs. Tools

• Dependence on Accumulated Knowledge: Modern humans depend heavily on systematized knowledge rather than personal insight. We stand on the shoulders of giants (the scientific method, written records, digital databases).
• Cognitive Offloading: Modern technology has led to "cognitive offloading"—relying on GPS, calculators, and search engines for memory and problem-solving. This means we often use our brains less for remembering or complex calculation than our ancestors did.
• Declining Critical Thinking? Studies suggest that over-reliance on AI and digital tools can reduce critical thinking skills, making modern humans passive consumers of information rather than active, deep thinkers.

Conclusion
People 6,000 years ago were just as intelligent and likely more reliant on their own, immediate critical thinking for daily survival. Modern humans rely on a much larger, collective, and externalized knowledge system. While we deal with more complex information, our innate cognitive ability has not increased, and our dependence on external, automated, or technological thinking may actually be decreasing our individual intellectual effort.

Not much I disagree with here. I wonder if technology isn't so much 'dumbing us down' as changing us as we adapt to it. If we don't have to remember the Iliad our brains don't require as much storage space. If we have to solve complex problems more often than we used to, those parts of our brain my increase in functionality. Evolution.

 

[alang1216]

It doesn't change what I asked. You can't begin to know who the Creator is until you believe there is a Creator.

Still agnostic on the existence of a Creator. If there was one he may be long gone to other creations.

 

[ding]

Not much I disagree with here. I wonder if technology isn't so much 'dumbing us down' as changing us as we adapt to it. If we don't have to remember the Iliad our brains don't require as much storage space. If we have to solve complex problems more often than we used to, those parts of our brain my increase in functionality. Evolution.

Ever see the movie Idioacracy? It was an extreme parody on what I am arguing. Our over reliance on technology will have unintended consequences which are totally predictable. Hence one of my favorite sayings, predictable surprises.

 

[ding]

Still agnostic on the existence of a Creator. If there was one he may be long gone to other creations.

How can you not believe this creator - that you are agnostic about - isn't moral and providential?

Thomas Jefferson was a deist and he believed in a moralistic and providential creator because he viewed the universe as a rational, designed system requiring a supreme creator, and believed this creator provided humans with an innate moral sense, guiding natural rights and human happiness.

Thomas Jefferson believed "Divine Providence" guided the American cause because he viewed the successful, unlikely revolution against Britain as a direct intervention of a "Creator" who favored human liberty and happiness. He saw Providence as an overruling force protecting the new nation,, often invoking it to signify God’s role in shaping American history and supporting their moral, political struggle.
Key reasons for this belief included:

• Reliance on a Moral Creator: Jefferson, though often described as a deist, frequently acknowledged a "Creator" who upheld the rights of humanity and favored the "American cause".
• Protection of the Revolution: He saw Providence as a force that shielded the American states during their battle for independence, often referring to it in formal documents and speeches.
• A Unique Historical Mission: Jefferson believed that America was chosen by Providence to be a model of freedom, frequently referencing how Providence had "led our fathers" and guided the nation's establishment.
• Political Utility: For Jefferson, invoking Providence allowed him to bridge religious and secular viewpoints, presenting the United States as a nation under the care of a higher power.
• The "Wall of Separation" Context: Despite his firm belief in a "wall of separation" between church and state, Jefferson maintained that acknowledging an "overruling Providence" was essential to recognizing God’s active role in human affairs.

In his second inaugural address, he directly linked the success of the nation to the "favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our fathers, as Israel of old".

 

[punchdubya]

And I hate nihilism

The father of Nihilism, Friedrich Nietzsche, defined nihilism as “the absolute repudiation of worth, purpose, desirability.”

It is because I reject the notion that human life does not have worth and purpose and desirability and so should you. Unfortunately, we often get political leaders who place no value on human life as other nihilists do, and we all suffer as a result. History is full of such examples, such as the Nazi regime who loved Nietzsche.

Jesus of Nazareth had said, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.” (Matthew 16:24)4 This, for Nietzsche, was the crux of the issue: the offensive denial of one’s own existence represented in the cross. As a moral example, the cross was repulsive. This is why the Nazi regime loved Nietzsche. It is because power is all that mattered to them, that is, their own personal power over how they thought people should live and think.

But history has shown that the deviant philosophy of nihilism as "evil" in my view, as it has done great harm to humanity as you can only judge a philosophy based upon the fruits of their branches. However, Christianity he so much hated, has helped build hospitals, universities, open charities, and given people who have no hope in life actual hope and purpose.

You know, there is a reason why Nietzsche sunk into madness at the end of his life.

It is what it is.

I'm not nearly qualified to debate against this, you hold a good point.