Zone1 What is the message of the parables in Matthew 25?

[ding]

From a biblical and Christian it IS a sin to reject God.

1st Commandment: Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

That's not your judgement to make.

 

[ding]

Then answer my questions, post #(14), instead of avoiding them and asking me a question.

Quantrill

Good Lord, you are a moron.

 

[HikerGuy83]

All sins mentioned "can" be forgiven (save blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) but not all sin WILL be forgiven without the repentance of sin.

This raises a key point that is being argued in another thread.

And it is a key question that is relevant to the OP.

In the 3 parables one group is shut out/thrown into outer darkness.

Does God do this because he wants to or because he has to. And if he has to...why ? What happens if he doesn't?

 

[HikerGuy83]

Good Lord, you are a moron.

I didn't think the question was that hard to answer.

Instead we get Peter incarnate.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Personally, I don't see forgiveness or salvation in that light.

Please share how you do see it.

BTW: I totally agree with you.

 

[SaxonJackson]

This raises a key point that is being argued in another thread.

And it is a key question that is relevant to the OP.

In the 3 parables one group is shut out/thrown into outer darkness.

Does God do this because he wants to or because he has to. And if he has to...why ? What happens if he doesn't?

My opinion: God cannot lie. He is Truth. If He promises that there is a consequence to a human action then He will assure that the consequence will take place. He won't flipflop or vacillate. In fact, He opposes doublemindedness.

So whatever message He's presenting in His parables, He's telling the truth.

 

[Quantrill]

Consider this: God forgiving sin, and the price paid for sin, are two different things.

God paid the price for sin with the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Full payment. He didn't just pay for some sins, He paid for all sin, period.

Because He has paid for all sin, He can forgive sin at His discretion. Only because it has been paid for. But, He doesn't have to forgive it. That depends on the one doing the sin, and the sin, and the ones attitude toward that sin.

This can be either a non-believer, or a believer. A non-believer is in a bad way. His sin has been paid for, but he rejects the only One in Whom that sin has been paid, Jesus Christ. Thus Christ's Sacrifice is not attributed to him. He remains in the First Adam, not the Last Adam. No forgiveness of sins.

A believer can also, sin against God. And though he accepts Christ as His Lord and Saviour, he may sin a sin and does not seek repentance for it. He does not seek God's forgiveness. He is walking away from God. God doesn't have to 'forgive' his sin. It is up to Him. Or, let's say later the believer seeks forgiveness. God is still not obliged to forgive. It all depends on the sin.

Where does that put the erring believer? Answer: Under the judgement of God....here and now. Not eternally. The believers eternity is set and final when he believed on Jesus Christ. But, God refuses to forgive his sin, whatever it was, which means a judgement upon him, here and now. He will suffer a judgement, but not a loss of eternal life.

Forgiveness of Sin and Payment of Sin, are two different things.

Quantrill

 

[norwegen]

As we know – or as some of us know – Pharisees were often in the audience when Jesus shared parables. Or their scribes, the chief priests, and the elders were. Examples are the Parables of the Two Sons (Mt 21:28-32), of the Tenants (Mt 21:33-46), and of the Wedding Feast (Mt 22:1-14).

If not for the crowd, the Pharisees would have arrested Jesus for having spoken of them as the wicked tenants.

The Pharisees and their sycophants were the objects of Jesus’ derision. They were the serpents and hypocrites who were destined for the Lake of Fire. They were the goats to be separated from the sheep. They were the chaff to be shucked from the wheat and burned in the fire.

The Jewish eschatology, as the Bible says, was at hand.

The Lord did not know the Pharisees. That is, he would not admit them into the kingdom. We read this in Matthew 25:12 and Matthew 25:30.

 

[HikerGuy83]

My opinion: God cannot lie. He is Truth. If He promises that there is a consequence to a human action then He will assure that the consequence will take place. He won't flipflop or vacillate. In fact, He opposes doublemindedness.

So whatever message He's presenting in His parables, He's telling the truth.

I'll go so far as to say he can't flipflop or vacillate. If he did, it would be against his eternal nature and he would not be God.

It's doubtful those who were shut out/cast out were not warned. He loves his children and does all he can for them (again according to eternal principles). He does not hate those who do not love him. The apocryphal book of Enoch states that he openly wept over the prospect of their destruction. It says the Heavens groaned.

12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.

13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away.

14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.

15 And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.

16 And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of redemption.

He did what he could. He offered a gift.

6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.

7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.

But if we don't take it. If we don't take upon his name and keep his commandments and seek to emulate him.......the law of Justice will be in force.

 

[HikerGuy83]

The Pharisees and their sycophants were the objects of Jesus’ derision.

I don't find the parables in Matthew 25 derisive at all.

I think they very clarifying and apply to all.

God is no respecter of persons when it comes to eternal principles.

 

[HikerGuy83]

As we know – or as some of us know – Pharisees were often in the audience when Jesus shared parables. Or their scribes, the chief priests, and the elders were. Examples are the Parables of the Two Sons (Mt 21:28-32), of the Tenants (Mt 21:33-46), and of the Wedding Feast (Mt 22:1-14).

If not for the crowd, the Pharisees would have arrested Jesus for having spoken of them as the wicked tenants.

The Pharisees and their sycophants were the objects of Jesus’ derision. They were the serpents and hypocrites who were destined for the Lake of Fire. They were the goats to be separated from the sheep. They were the chaff to be shucked from the wheat and burned in the fire.

The Jewish eschatology, as the Bible says, was at hand.

The Lord did not know the Pharisees. That is, he would not admit them into the kingdom. We read this in Matthew 25:12 and Matthew 25:30.

Again, I don't think it is limited......not sure how the everyday believer is not held to the same standard.

Matthew 5:48 seems to promote that concept.

And what about Matthew 19:

16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,


19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

**************************

Now, I for one, don't think he condemned himself in this act. It says he went away sorrowful. He was a young man. Maybe it took a few hours, days, weeks or longer, but he could have easily caught the spirit of what was taught that day and did what was asked of him.

We are not told he didn't sell everything....just that it appears....it might have been a bit of a golden calf.

 

[norwegen]

I don't find the parables in Matthew 25 derisive at all.

I think they very clarifying and apply to all.

God is no respecter of persons when it comes to eternal principles.

You didn't know what Jesus was teaching in those three - two - parables of Matthew 25, and yet you know what Jesus was teaching.

 

[norwegen]

Again, I don't think it is limited......not sure how the everyday believer is not held to the same standard.

Matthew 5:48 seems to promote that concept.

Matthew 5:48 is, nonetheless, directed at Jews in the first century. They're the ones who were familiar with the Pharisaic culture. They're the ones who were familiar with the mounting tensions between the Romans and the Jews. They're the ones who were immersed in the biblical narrative.

Not you or me.

 

[HikerGuy83]

You didn't know what Jesus was teaching in those three - two - parables of Matthew 25, and yet you know what Jesus was teaching.

I think I know what he is saying.

I was asking others thoughts, opinions and personal understandings.

A "gospel discussion" is always a good way to find different ways to consider the words.

We believe that revelation comes as you read the scriptures. But that does not just happen.

Getting away from the noise, prayer, meditation and pondering all are part of a successful recipie.

I hope that helps.

My question mark isn't because I don't know or understand (to be fair....."thiink I understand").

It is because I am interested in the perspective of others.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Matthew 5:48 is, nonetheless, directed at Jews in the first century. They're the ones who were familiar with the Pharisaic culture. They're the ones who were familiar with the mounting tensions between the Romans and the Jews. They're the ones who were immersed in the biblical narrative.

Not you or me.

I'd enjoy a source or rationale on that one.

The Sermon on the Mount was delivered to his followers.

And I don't believe that anything like this is parsed. He is no respecter of persons.

 

[norwegen]

I'd enjoy a source or rationale on that one.

The Sermon on the Mount was delivered to his followers.

And I don't believe that anything like this is parsed. He is no respecter of persons.

It's in the text. Black and white. Clear as day.

The followers he was talking to were first-century Jews. Not us.

How much simpler can it be?

 

[HikerGuy83]

It's in the text. Black and white. Clear as day.

The followers he was talking to were first-century Jews. Not us.

How much simpler can it be?

All of Matthew 5-7 (the Sermon on the Mount) is not for us?

I'm a little lost.

 

[norwegen]

I'm a little lost.

Most Christians are.

 

[Meriweather]

Please share how you do see it.

BTW: I totally agree with you.

Jesus taught that what cannot be forgiven are sins against the Holy Spirit. One aspect is when one rejects forgiveness of wrong-doing in favor of continuing on with the sin. The other is one rejects salvation/God in favor of existing without God. I have often heard it phrased as, "We get what we choose."

 

[HikerGuy83]

Jesus taught that what cannot be forgiven are sins against the Holy Spirit. One aspect is when one rejects forgiveness of wrong-doing in favor of continuing on with the sin. The other is one rejects salvation/God in favor of existing without God. I have often heard it phrased as, "We get what we choose."

Thank you for sharing that.

While my view might be different in some ways....the "get what we choose" piece is key.

We choose.

God will not/can not force salvation upon us. Is that saying the same thing?