Zone1 What is the message of the parables in Matthew 25?

[HikerGuy83]

Most Christians are.

This is a bit of a rabbit hole, but what should Christians be looking to for the "Word" if it isn't the Bible?

 

[HikerGuy83]

He can forgive sin at His discretion.

That is an amazing statement.

I would argue that he will judge the same way under the same circumstances every single time.

He is perfectly consistent.

There is no discretion.

 

[Meriweather]

Thank you for sharing that.

While my view might be different in some ways....the "get what we choose" piece is key.

We choose.

God will not/can not force salvation upon us. Is that saying the same thing?

Yes, I think so.

 

[Quantrill]

That is an amazing statement.

I would argue that he will judge the same way under the same circumstances every single time.

He is perfectly consistent.

There is no discretion.

It is amazing and true. Why? Because He has paid for all sin. Thus He forgives what He wants.

Did Christ pay the penalty for 'all' sin or not?

God is perfectly consistent.

What He forgives is at His discretion. Why? Because all sin is against Him.

Quantrill

 

[norwegen]

This is a bit of a rabbit hole, but what should Christians be looking to for the "Word" if it isn't the Bible?

You advocate "Sola Scriptura," obviously.

Is that not a bit of a rabbit hole?

 

[HikerGuy83]

It is amazing and true. Why? Because He has paid for all sin. Thus He forgives what He wants.

Did Christ pay the penalty for 'all' sin or not?

God is perfectly consistent.

What He forgives is at His discretion. Why? Because all sin is against Him.

Quantrill

Yes they have.

In reflection, as long as discretion does not include any arbitrariness, then we on the same page.

Not to be confused with automatically. There is something required on our part. We must receive the gift he offers.

 

[HikerGuy83]

You advocate "Sola Scriptura," obviously.

Actually, mormons don't make that argument. But what we call scripture includes the bible.

But the bible isn't the only thing we call scripture.

Is that the same thing?

We also believe in modern day prophets. These men help with the application of scripture in today's world.

 

[norwegen]

Actually, mormons don't make that argument. But what we call scripture includes the bible.

But the bible isn't the only thing we call scripture.

Is that the same thing?

We also believe in modern day prophets. These men help with the application of scripture in today's world.

Extra-biblical "scripture" is irrelevant. What is relevant are the writings of the Israelites/Jews while they were a viable people living in Canaan. Also relevant are the events in Israel and Judea and sometimes abroad as these people deemed themselves involved.

No one writes in a bubble. Research the first Jewish-Roman War and see if you can recognize those events as recorded in Revelation.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Extra-biblical "scripture" is irrelevant.

Now that is a strange thing to say. If God offers additional scripture, you call it irrelevant?

What is relevant are the writings of the Israelites/Jews while they were a viable people living in Canaan.

You mean the Old Testament or are you referencing something else?

You must be Jewish.

Research the first Jewish-Roman War and see if you can recognize those events as recorded in Revelation.

Is Revelation considered relevant?

 

[Quantrill]

Yes they have.

In reflection, as long as discretion does not include any arbitrariness, then we on the same page.

Not to be confused with automatically. There is something required on our part. We must receive the gift he offers.

Makes no sense. 'Yes they have'...what?

We are not on the same page.

Your statements are incomplete and empty.

Quantrill

 

[HikerGuy83]

Makes no sense. 'Yes they have'...what?

We are not on the same page.

Your statements are incomplete and empty.

Quantrill

O.K.

Thanks.

Maybe you could hang out in someone else's thread. Where maybe the understand just that it is that you think you are doing.

 

[HikerGuy83]

This was from the Bible Hub.

Matthew 25 underscores the eternal consequences of our choices. The parable of the sheep and the goats ends with a stark reminder: "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life" (Matthew 25:46). This serves as a sobering reminder to live with eternity in mind, making choices that align with God's kingdom and lead to eternal life.

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I agree (obviously, if you've read the OP).

Now, do those choices represent "works"?

 

[Quantrill]

That is an amazing statement.

I would argue that he will judge the same way under the same circumstances every single time.

He is perfectly consistent.

There is no discretion.

God is consistent in that He has paid for all sin, and thus it is His discretion when to forgive.

David committed adultery and murder. God's law was clear, He should have died. Yet, "And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die." (2 Sam. 12:13)

And, of Ahab and Jezebel who were guilty of theft and murder of Naboth: "And the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tisbite, saying, Arise go down to meet Ahab king of Israel...he is in the vineyard of Naboth....An thou shalt speak unto him saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth, shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine. (1Kings 21:19)

"And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying, The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel. (1Kings 21:23)

Quantrill

 

[norwegen]

Now that is a strange thing to say. If God offers additional scripture, you call it irrelevant?

You mean the Old Testament or are you referencing something else?

You must be Jewish.


Is Revelation considered relevant?

How can the Israelites/Jews write additional scripture if no Israelites/Jews are around?

Their scriptures include everything up to Revelation. Jews wrote all of it

So why wouldn't Revelation be relevant? It's the last chapter of temple cult's history.

 

[Quantrill]

Not to be confused with automatically. There is something required on our part. We must receive the gift he offers.

You word it as though one has a choice to believe. One doesn't choose to believe, one believes. One believes because God has given him the gift of faith.

If one 'chooses' to believe, but really doesn't believe, his faith is worthless. He doesn't have faith.

God requires faith. But that doesn't mean He is requiring a work for one to do to obtain eternal life. Faith is just God opening the eyes of an individual so that he sees and knows God. It is God's work. It is God's way of revealing who are His.

Quantrill

 

[norwegen]

This was from the Bible Hub.

Matthew 25 underscores the eternal consequences of our choices. The parable of the sheep and the goats ends with a stark reminder: "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life" (Matthew 25:46). This serves as a sobering reminder to live with eternity in mind, making choices that align with God's kingdom and lead to eternal life.

************************

I agree (obviously, if you've read the OP).

Now, do those choices represent "works"?

I'm not sure why anyone would consider the quip about sheep and goats a parable. It doesn't tell a story.

And again, Jesus wasn't talking to us. So making it about the eternal consequences of our choices doesn't make sense.

We can find some application of it for ourselves if we're Christian, but the parable is not about us.

 

[HikerGuy83]

God is consistent in that He has paid for all sin, and thus it is His discretion when to forgive.

David committed adultery and murder. God's law was clear, He should have died. Yet, "And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die." (2 Sam. 12:13)

And, of Ahab and Jezebel who were guilty of theft and murder of Naboth: "And the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tisbite, saying, Arise go down to meet Ahab king of Israel...he is in the vineyard of Naboth....An thou shalt speak unto him saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth, shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine. (1Kings 21:19)

"And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying, The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel. (1Kings 21:23)

Quantrill

Are you saying God is inconsistent?

 

[HikerGuy83]

I'm not sure why anyone would consider the quip about sheep and goats a parable. It doesn't tell a story.

And again, Jesus wasn't talking to us. So making it about the eternal consequences of our choices doesn't make sense.

We can find some application of it for ourselves if we're Christian, but the parable is not about us.

While I appreciate that you might have that perspective, I don't agree.

 

[HikerGuy83]

You word it as though one has a choice to believe. One doesn't choose to believe, one believes. One believes because God has given him the gift of faith.

If one 'chooses' to believe, but really doesn't believe, his faith is worthless. He doesn't have faith.

God requires faith. But that doesn't mean He is requiring a work for one to do to obtain eternal life. Faith is just God opening the eyes of an individual so that he sees and knows God. It is God's work. It is God's way of revealing who are His.

Quantrill

I can't tell if this is a matter of semantics or not.

I don't accept that you don't have a choice to believe or not.

But if one chooses to believe and does believe, what then ? You are saying that is not possible.

But the other is. I don't think that is correct.

God requires faith? Yet, he only has faith if God gives it to him? You get where I am confused.

As to your last paragraph, that sounds circular to me.

The messages of these parables indicated that "doing something" is necessary, so I reject your statement about not requiring some effort on our part.

 

[HikerGuy83]

How can the Israelites/Jews write additional scripture if no Israelites/Jews are around?

Their scriptures include everything up to Revelation. Jews wrote all of it

So why wouldn't Revelation be relevant? It's the last chapter of temple cult's history.

Only Jews can write scripture?