Zone1 Why do you need gods?

[james bond]

just wondering about speaking the truth, bond - have you found yet the claimed tablets etched in heaven w/ 10 commandments ...

* that never existed.

It's in the Ark of the Covenant -- Where Is the Ark of the Covenant?. What was inside the Ark of the covenant? | 10 Commandments | Manna

Anyway, the tablets were found as fragments...

"What happened to the tablets of the Ten Commandments?


The tablets likely hung over an ancient synagogue that was either destroyed by the Romans between A.D. 400 and 500, or by the Crusaders five to seven centuries later, Michaels said. Original article on Live Science."

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OTOH, what happened to the original evolution documents?

 

[Riff Raff]

Why do people have a need to believe in gods?

Well, Somebody's got to throw down bolts of lightning on the bad guys.

 

[Riff Raff]

God is the ultimate realization for an individual who seeks answers to all questions. I agree that organized religion has been corrupted by bad people at times. But that should never stop an individual from seeking the ultimate answer to all questions.

When Al Einstein works on the Theory of Everything, he's wanting to know that same God — he just approaches Him from a different angle and with different terminology.

 

[ding]

You were talking about the first uncaused cause, but you clearly didn't understand the response I posted.

Aquinas (a famous Catholic philosopher) proposed several methods of proof for God. One of those was the first uncaused cause (the argument you made). That's nothing more than a case of special pleading.

It solves the problem of causation (everything has a cause) by simply unilaterally decreeing that "God is the first uncaused cause". That's not a proof. That's special pleading.

I wish you had more education. You really do seem like among the most uneducated people I've run into.

I wish you'd taken a philosophy class. Hell, I wish you'd taken ANY college courses.

If you would like to talk about Catholic (Scholastic) Philosophy I'd be more than happy to do so. I'd even be happy to talk theology with you.


But, like the earth science stuff, it's not like you know anything.

No. That was your interpretation of what I said. Go back to the very first post. I said, existence can't come from non-existence. You that was a "special pleading" by arbitrarily defining God as the only thing which can come from non-existence. I said, good thing I'm not making that argument. Which I didn't. I never argued God is the only thing that can come from non-existence because I am arguing existence cannot come from non-existence. Now if you want to argue that Aquinas argued that existence cannot come from non-existence, then that would be my argument but I arrive at my conclusion differently.

The rest is just a thinly veiled attack of me personally. You really should feel ashamed.

 

[ding]

How do you know this?

He wouldn't. The material world is made manifest by mind. Quite literally I might add.

Mind, rather than being a late outgrowth of the evolution of space and time, has always existed as the source or matrix of the material world. Such that the physical world is made of mind stuff.

 

[ding]

Some people fail to feel that relationship is real. Why is that?

The simplest answer is because they prefer to worship the created rather than the Creator.

 

[ding]

Why would God allow some people to fail to "feel His presence"?

I don't believe He does. He's the reason we prefer good over evil.

 

[ding]

What about "scrupulosity"? Where someone's faith and attempts to reach God result in intense and nearly overwhelming person pain for the person? Why does God allow "Scrupulosity" to exist? (If you are unfamiliar with what scrupulosity is, definitely look it up.)

If your perception of God is that of a mad scientist pushing buttons and turning knobs it's not surprising you can't feel the presence of God. That perception doesn't exist. That's more of a polytheistic belief.

 

[Blues Man]

It's you who is wrong. The Bible and I are right because it's the truth and science backs it up.

No it doesn't really but you believe that if you have to

 

[Blues Man]

I was answering your question - offering a reason why people need gods. I guess you aren't interested in possible answers so much as proving that people don't need gods. Which I actually agree with.

OK

Every place that has removed God quickly becomes the most unbearable and oppressive places to live.

Christianity brings freedom God rejection always leads to oppression

I don't believe that. Religion has long been used to control the masses

 

[BreezeWood]

It's in the Ark of the Covenant -- Where Is the Ark of the Covenant?. What was inside the Ark of the covenant? | 10 Commandments | Manna

Anyway, the tablets were found as fragments...

"What happened to the tablets of the Ten Commandments?


The tablets likely hung over an ancient synagogue that was either destroyed by the Romans between A.D. 400 and 500, or by the Crusaders five to seven centuries later, Michaels said. Original article on Live Science."

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OTOH, what happened to the original evolution documents?

It's you who is wrong. The Bible and I are right because it's the truth and science backs it up.

* ... "in fragments"



then what is written in your 4th century book - from broken fragments, 1400 years earlier ...

why if they are what christians claim, the desert religions - etched in heaven are they not a monolith anywhere on earth and what language were they written in ...

- moses was a murderer and a liar and a sociopathic egomaniac.

OTOH, what happened to the original evolution documents?

better than documents or tablets that never existed - there is visual proof for the evolutionary process -

the physiology of a being transforming itself by its spiritual content from a land creature to an avian to reproduce itself into a new offspring of its chosen particular species.

 

[james bond]

No it doesn't really but you believe that if you have to

Of course, it does. The key point is science tells us the truth.

It's you who are delusional.

 

[james bond]

* ... "in fragments"



then what is written in your 4th century book - from broken fragments, 1400 years earlier ...

why if they are what christians claim, the desert religions - etched in heaven are they not a monolith anywhere on earth and what language were they written in ...

- moses was a murderer and a liar and a sociopathic egomaniac.




better than documents or tablets that never existed - there is visual proof for the evolutionary process -

View attachment 684120

the physiology of a being transforming itself by its spiritual content from a land creature to an avian to reproduce itself into a new offspring of its chosen particular species.

I knew you couldn't handle the truth. The original ones from God to Moses are in the Ark of the Covenant. The tablets to the people were destroyed by the Romans and that's why they're in fragments. You need to die before you understand the truth because of your stupidity. Your logo alone exposes you as a fraud and delusional.

 

[Blues Man]

Of course, it does. The key point is science tells us the truth.

It's you who are delusional.

We don't know exactly how the universe came to be all we have is a working theory and that is based on the time just after when we think the universe came to be

The god theory is no more proven than the big bang theory

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

No. That was your interpretation of what I said. Go back to the very first post. I said, existence can't come from non-existence.

That is a restatement of the "first uncaused cause". It posits that all things that happen have a predicate cause. So it requires a FIRST uncaused cause. A first thing ("cause") which must exist. That existence is, itself, "uncaused", in other words it doesn't have to have a predicate cause....no one to "create" it.

That is EXACTLY what you were talking about. It is standard issue theology 101. Aquinas's list of possible proofs of God.

If you think existence cannot come from non-existence then you either:

1. Think God does not exist
or
2. You think God did not necessitate a "beginning" (ie has always existed)

Which is it?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

He wouldn't. The material world is made manifest by mind. Quite literally I might add.

That is little more than psychobabble new-age junk. I know you think that the Copenhage Interp of Quantum makes your comment "true" but that isn't really how it works. Or if it does, there's no way for you to know it.

Mind, rather than being a late outgrowth of the evolution of space and time, has always existed

Unevidenced claim = meaningless

as the source or matrix

Fancy smash-up of words. Standard issue new age stuff. Has no meaning.

of the material world. Such that the physical world is made of mind stuff.

Utter meaningless mental noodling.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I don't believe He does.

You would be surprised that other people have quite different experience of the world than YOU do.

He's the reason we prefer good over evil.

So non-Christians can't be good? Or did you mean to say that?

 

[Blues Man]

You would be surprised that other people have quite different experience of the world than YOU do.



So non-Christians can't be good? Or did you mean to say that?

you are wasting your time with that guy

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

you are wasting your time with that guy

I just wanna find out which side of the Euthyphro dilemma he comes out on.

 

[Riff Raff]

Of course, it does. The key point is science tells us the truth.

It's you who are delusional.

Science = latest best theory