Why do the God-haters persist?

[sealybobo]

The problem, though, is that there's no reason to believe we've actually seen a human civilization in which the people were not religious or spiritual in general. In fact, according to your own stated beliefs, this is true.

What you really seem to be saying is that governments which punish or attempt to prevent spirituality fail. That is an entirely different proposition.

But there have been civilizations where spirituality was squelched, not allowed, punished by death, etc. They all failed. Humans are intrinsically spiritual, so that's the only way you can have a non-spiritual civilization. Now, I am all for rounding up you atheist non-believers and shipping you off to your own deserted island somewhere to see if you can make a non-spiritual civilization work... but I am willing to bet you'd fail. Of course, we'd have to first sort out the true non-believers from the ones who claim they don't believe but really do. That's at least half of the Atheists by my estimation.

So by your "logic" in this country where Atheists are shunned and mocked, at least half who believe in God pretend to be Atheists so they can be outcasts. Wouldn't it be more logical that it is the "believers" who would be more likely to pretend they believe for social acceptance when they actually don't believe? So if 50% of Atheists will pretend for social rejection, at least 99% of believers will pretend for social acceptance. So all those successful "spiritual" civilizations are actually mostly Atheistic and all the failed Atheistic civilizations are at least half spiritual.

most of who we see posting here are not true Atheists, they are God-haters who claim they are Atheists but actually just have a chip on their shoulder about God. They resent God and the people who worship God, for various reasons.

The 33% Atheists include about 17% who believe it's possible something may exist greater than self. Another 10% are not sure one way or the other, and the remaining approximate 6% were willing to state they do not believe it is possible that anything greater than self exists. This seems to coincide with study after study which show only about 5% of the human population are Nihilist.

Now there are lots of civilizations recorded in human history, but we have no example of a long-term civilization existing without spirituality. If there were such an example, it would be the very first word out of every Atheist's mouth when entering these type of debates.

Why do I resent god?

Sure it's possible. Anythings possible. Just not likely or probable.

So every society that has failed was spiritual?

 

[sealybobo]

Are the God-haters now fighting radical Islam? Seems most of them are anti-war nitwits who don't even get the whole "war on terror" thing... maybe I'm wrong? If we could have the God-haters stop bashing and trashing Christians and Jews for a hot second, maybe we could do something about this terrorist threat?

Why are you sure their God is not the one true God?

Those people are reacting out of a misplaced understanding of Spiritual God and when their souls depart this physical existence, the price will be paid.
.

How do you know there will be a price to pay?

 

[Boss]

Until they admit the stories aren't true, I can't be a follower because I can't follow what I know to be a lie.

You just finished saying you weren't 100% sure. How can you know something is definitely a lie, yet not be sure? You weren't there, remember?

To me, it is astonishing how you can completely morph and change from agnostic to atheist in a single paragraph. You seem to be a very confused person who has no concept of basic logic.

 

[Boss]

Are the God-haters now fighting radical Islam? Seems most of them are anti-war nitwits who don't even get the whole "war on terror" thing... maybe I'm wrong? If we could have the God-haters stop bashing and trashing Christians and Jews for a hot second, maybe we could do something about this terrorist threat?

Why are you sure their God is not the one true God?

Those people are reacting out of a misplaced understanding of Spiritual God and when their souls depart this physical existence, the price will be paid.
.

How do you know there will be a price to pay?

It's probably beyond your ability to comprehend because you don't understand logic. I realize, through my connection with spiritual nature, we are compelled to promote positive flow of spiritual energy. We are guided in the direction of goodness by this spiritual force. Our souls are not physical, so they must continue after our physical vessels expire. I reason that because we are compelled to goodness, there is a purpose beyond our own self preservation in the physical. This is partly because spiritual nature compels us in a specific direction and partly because I see evidence that those without spiritual fidelity are able to preserve a physical existence along with the rest. There is something greater at play.

It is for this reason I surmise when we die physically, our souls will either ascend to a higher dimension or descend to a lower one. Again, if this is not the case, there is no fundamental purpose for our spiritual interaction with the spiritual nature which compels us.

 

[Boss]

The problem, though, is that there's no reason to believe we've actually seen a human civilization in which the people were not religious or spiritual in general. In fact, according to your own stated beliefs, this is true.

What you really seem to be saying is that governments which punish or attempt to prevent spirituality fail. That is an entirely different proposition.

But there have been civilizations where spirituality was squelched, not allowed, punished by death, etc. They all failed. Humans are intrinsically spiritual, so that's the only way you can have a non-spiritual civilization. Now, I am all for rounding up you atheist non-believers and shipping you off to your own deserted island somewhere to see if you can make a non-spiritual civilization work... but I am willing to bet you'd fail. Of course, we'd have to first sort out the true non-believers from the ones who claim they don't believe but really do. That's at least half of the Atheists by my estimation.

So by your "logic" in this country where Atheists are shunned and mocked, at least half who believe in God pretend to be Atheists so they can be outcasts. Wouldn't it be more logical that it is the "believers" who would be more likely to pretend they believe for social acceptance when they actually don't believe? So if 50% of Atheists will pretend for social rejection, at least 99% of believers will pretend for social acceptance. So all those successful "spiritual" civilizations are actually mostly Atheistic and all the failed Atheistic civilizations are at least half spiritual.

Huhh? Are you back on the crack again? ...

When you lead with a personal insult, you admit you are wrong.
Thank you.

I didn't lead with a personal insult, I asked a question. It was prompted by the convoluted load of horse shit you reeled off.

 

[BreezeWood]

So every society that has failed was spiritual?

that is above the pay scale ... the OP contention the non-atheist are spiritual is absurd, nor is it just their religion that was the cause of their failure, as their scriptures are not endemic of "failure" but collective acquiescence to Evil.

whatever is "greater than self" ... self being what - denying the spirituality existing in all living creatures is no less the reason for failure as any other and that precludes even the true intent of existence, the Triumph of the Everlasting whether accomplished by an individual Spirit or not.

.

 

[sealybobo]

Until they admit the stories aren't true, I can't be a follower because I can't follow what I know to be a lie.

You just finished saying you weren't 100% sure. How can you know something is definitely a lie, yet not be sure? You weren't there, remember?

To me, it is astonishing how you can completely morph and change from agnostic to atheist in a single paragraph. You seem to be a very confused person who has no concept of basic logic.

Are you sure the Jesus and Mohammad stories happened? If not, shut the fuck up. You don't believe them either, right?

They could be right. But if they are, you're going to hell. So do you believe 99% you are going to hell, 1%? 100%???

 

[sealybobo]

Are the God-haters now fighting radical Islam? Seems most of them are anti-war nitwits who don't even get the whole "war on terror" thing... maybe I'm wrong? If we could have the God-haters stop bashing and trashing Christians and Jews for a hot second, maybe we could do something about this terrorist threat?

Why are you sure their God is not the one true God?

Those people are reacting out of a misplaced understanding of Spiritual God and when their souls depart this physical existence, the price will be paid.
.

How do you know there will be a price to pay?

Our souls are not physical, so they must continue after our physical vessels expire. I reason that because we are compelled to goodness, there is a purpose beyond our own self preservation in the physical. This is partly because spiritual nature compels us in a specific direction and partly because I see evidence that those without spiritual fidelity are able to preserve a physical existence along with the rest. There is something greater at play.

It is for this reason I surmise when we die physically, our souls will either ascend to a higher dimension or descend to a lower one. Again, if this is not the case, there is no fundamental purpose for our spiritual interaction with the spiritual nature which compels us.

A dog or fish's thoughts and emotions aren't physical either. So must their souls continue after their bodies die?

Why MUST our souls continue just because they are not physical? If you turn off a computer does it not stop working? Does the intelligence of the computer continue after I unplug and throw away the computer? Does the computers non physical "soul" go to computer heaven?

Anyways, I love it how you don't follow any organized religions but you still believe in heaven and hell, just because humans a long time ago made it up. Dope.

 

[sealybobo]

So every society that has failed was spiritual?

that is above the pay scale ... the OP contention the non-atheist are spiritual is absurd, nor is it just their religion that was the cause of their failure, as their scriptures are not endemic of "failure" but collective acquiescence to Evil.

whatever is "greater than self" ... self being what - denying the spirituality existing in all living creatures is no less the reason for failure as any other and that precludes even the true intent of existence, the Triumph of the Everlasting whether accomplished by an individual Spirit or not.

.

Now in english please.

 

[Boss]

A dog or fish's thoughts and emotions aren't physical either. So must their souls continue after their bodies die?

Why MUST our souls continue just because they are not physical? If you turn off a computer does it not stop working? Does the intelligence of the computer continue after I unplug and throw away the computer? Does the computers non physical "soul" go to computer heaven?

Anyways, I love it how you don't follow any organized religions but you still believe in heaven and hell, just because humans a long time ago made it up. Dope.

They could be right.

I love how you go from believing they could be right to it's all made up. You're 100% sure, but only 99.999% certain, and yet you don't know. You are absolutely positive... but not completely.

You can unplug and throw away your computer, but amid that metal, plastic and silicon, there remains a hard drive with all the information, programs and data, still in existence. But let's go back to the discussion of atoms again... electrons in specific. They disappear from existence, then they reappear.... they may occupy two spaces at the same time. Pretty fucking remarkable feat, wouldn't you agree? And so, this is happening in everything we observe with atoms. Simply put, that means everything we perceive as "material" in our physical reality. It's all constantly having electrons pop in and out of existence or be two places at once.

 

[sealybobo]

A dog or fish's thoughts and emotions aren't physical either. So must their souls continue after their bodies die?

Why MUST our souls continue just because they are not physical? If you turn off a computer does it not stop working? Does the intelligence of the computer continue after I unplug and throw away the computer? Does the computers non physical "soul" go to computer heaven?

Anyways, I love it how you don't follow any organized religions but you still believe in heaven and hell, just because humans a long time ago made it up. Dope.

They could be right.

I love how you go from believing they could be right to it's all made up. You're 100% sure, but only 99.999% certain, and yet you don't know. You are absolutely positive... but not completely.

You can unplug and throw away your computer, but amid that metal, plastic and silicon, there remains a hard drive with all the information, programs and data, still in existence. But let's go back to the discussion of atoms again... electrons in specific. They disappear from existence, then they reappear.... they may occupy two spaces at the same time. Pretty fucking remarkable feat, wouldn't you agree? And so, this is happening in everything we observe with atoms. Simply put, that means everything we perceive as "material" in our physical reality. It's all constantly having electrons pop in and out of existence or be two places at once.

I don't believe they are right. They PROBABLY made up the Jesus and Mohammad stories. I'm sure enough they can't scare me into going along with the threat of hell.

Anyways, there is no heaven for you or your hard drive. Sorry boss.

 

[Boss]

A dog or fish's thoughts and emotions aren't physical either. So must their souls continue after their bodies die?

Why MUST our souls continue just because they are not physical? If you turn off a computer does it not stop working? Does the intelligence of the computer continue after I unplug and throw away the computer? Does the computers non physical "soul" go to computer heaven?

Anyways, I love it how you don't follow any organized religions but you still believe in heaven and hell, just because humans a long time ago made it up. Dope.

They could be right.

I love how you go from believing they could be right to it's all made up. You're 100% sure, but only 99.999% certain, and yet you don't know. You are absolutely positive... but not completely.

You can unplug and throw away your computer, but amid that metal, plastic and silicon, there remains a hard drive with all the information, programs and data, still in existence. But let's go back to the discussion of atoms again... electrons in specific. They disappear from existence, then they reappear.... they may occupy two spaces at the same time. Pretty fucking remarkable feat, wouldn't you agree? And so, this is happening in everything we observe with atoms. Simply put, that means everything we perceive as "material" in our physical reality. It's all constantly having electrons pop in and out of existence or be two places at once.

I don't believe they are right. They PROBABLY made up the Jesus and Mohammad stories. I'm sure enough they can't scare me into going along with the threat of hell.

Anyways, there is no heaven for you or your hard drive. Sorry boss.

Well, there is no heaven for hard drives or dogs and fish because they aren't spiritually compelled, but human souls are a different matter. And again, it's important to note that you are on record as stating you "don't know for sure" so you can't say there is no heaven. Sorry silly boob.

 

[sealybobo]

A dog or fish's thoughts and emotions aren't physical either. So must their souls continue after their bodies die?

Why MUST our souls continue just because they are not physical? If you turn off a computer does it not stop working? Does the intelligence of the computer continue after I unplug and throw away the computer? Does the computers non physical "soul" go to computer heaven?

Anyways, I love it how you don't follow any organized religions but you still believe in heaven and hell, just because humans a long time ago made it up. Dope.

They could be right.

I love how you go from believing they could be right to it's all made up. You're 100% sure, but only 99.999% certain, and yet you don't know. You are absolutely positive... but not completely.

You can unplug and throw away your computer, but amid that metal, plastic and silicon, there remains a hard drive with all the information, programs and data, still in existence. But let's go back to the discussion of atoms again... electrons in specific. They disappear from existence, then they reappear.... they may occupy two spaces at the same time. Pretty fucking remarkable feat, wouldn't you agree? And so, this is happening in everything we observe with atoms. Simply put, that means everything we perceive as "material" in our physical reality. It's all constantly having electrons pop in and out of existence or be two places at once.

I don't believe they are right. They PROBABLY made up the Jesus and Mohammad stories. I'm sure enough they can't scare me into going along with the threat of hell.

Anyways, there is no heaven for you or your hard drive. Sorry boss.

Well, there is no heaven for hard drives or dogs and fish because they aren't spiritually compelled, but human souls are a different matter. And again, it's important to note that you are on record as stating you "don't know for sure" so you can't say there is no heaven. Sorry silly boob.

A religion made up heaven and hell you cherry picker.

 

[sealybobo]

A dog or fish's thoughts and emotions aren't physical either. So must their souls continue after their bodies die?

Why MUST our souls continue just because they are not physical? If you turn off a computer does it not stop working? Does the intelligence of the computer continue after I unplug and throw away the computer? Does the computers non physical "soul" go to computer heaven?

Anyways, I love it how you don't follow any organized religions but you still believe in heaven and hell, just because humans a long time ago made it up. Dope.

They could be right.

I love how you go from believing they could be right to it's all made up. You're 100% sure, but only 99.999% certain, and yet you don't know. You are absolutely positive... but not completely.

You can unplug and throw away your computer, but amid that metal, plastic and silicon, there remains a hard drive with all the information, programs and data, still in existence. But let's go back to the discussion of atoms again... electrons in specific. They disappear from existence, then they reappear.... they may occupy two spaces at the same time. Pretty fucking remarkable feat, wouldn't you agree? And so, this is happening in everything we observe with atoms. Simply put, that means everything we perceive as "material" in our physical reality. It's all constantly having electrons pop in and out of existence or be two places at once.

I don't believe they are right. They PROBABLY made up the Jesus and Mohammad stories. I'm sure enough they can't scare me into going along with the threat of hell.

Anyways, there is no heaven for you or your hard drive. Sorry boss.

Well, there is no heaven for hard drives or dogs and fish because they aren't spiritually compelled, but human souls are a different matter. And again, it's important to note that you are on record as stating you "don't know for sure" so you can't say there is no heaven. Sorry silly boob.

So I look up the word Piety and the definition says:

the quality of being religious or reverent.

Then says:

a belief or point of view that is accepted with unthinking conventional reverence.

Conventional meaning in accordance with what is generally done or believed.

Reverence means a deep respect for something.

So you may have put a lot of thought into it and still believe but fact is most have not. And even you are just kidding yourself. You believe despite all the lies. You believe because you can't believe otherwise. You want to believe. Not everyone needs to believe. Look at how gay people kill themselves because of what their church says. Maybe god isn't for everyone.

So you keep on with your unthinking, going along with what we've always done (that's the conservative in you) because you have a deep respect/hope/wishful thinking that this god is your pal.

I know, its a little weird at first when I first went atheist I felt like I let down my god, but I had to realize there was no god. I've been talking to myself all that time.

A god that listens to you? I'm an atheist on that. Well, again, 99.999 sure about this, that if there is a god/creator, he's not listening to you. There is no heaven or hell. No miracles. This I'm pretty sure about. When you die that's it. You are just another living animal here on earth. Sorry to disappoint you. Just enjoy the rest of your life and it's good this god keeps you from being a murderer. I don't need a god. I have a conscience.

 

[sealybobo]

But maybe that god, just like santa, helped my parents teach me right from wrong when I was a kid. But it is not ok to lie to an adult and tell them the adam and eve, noah and jesus miracle stories are facts and if we don't believe we go to hell.

We need to come up with a new religion. One without all the bullshit stories. Why did Joseph Smith have to say all the crazy shit? If he would have kept it simple it would have been more believable.

 

[Boss]

How long are you going to prattle on with the erroneous assumptions about what I believe and your flip-flopping back and forth from not believing to not being certain? Do you think maybe if I let you reel off 20 unanswered posts or so, suddenly you're points will be made? What you are saying is inconsistent with itself, as if you are having a change of heart as you post.

Sorry to disappoint you.

Don't worry about it... you see, you're not God, so it doesn't matter to me what your opinion is. My spiritual connection has absolutely nothing to do with your denial and inconsistent view of whether or not God is real. I'm going to keep on praying to God who answers my prayers and blesses me in the process.

If you're really wanting to make a difference here, what you should be spending your time doing is telling us your testimony of how your life has been changed for the positive since becoming an Atheist. I've heard very little from you on that, and it seems you simply want to try and cajole me into some strange religious belief you can then attack and insult. It should be clear to you by now that isn't going to happen.

 

[edthecynic]

The problem, though, is that there's no reason to believe we've actually seen a human civilization in which the people were not religious or spiritual in general. In fact, according to your own stated beliefs, this is true.

What you really seem to be saying is that governments which punish or attempt to prevent spirituality fail. That is an entirely different proposition.

But there have been civilizations where spirituality was squelched, not allowed, punished by death, etc. They all failed. Humans are intrinsically spiritual, so that's the only way you can have a non-spiritual civilization. Now, I am all for rounding up you atheist non-believers and shipping you off to your own deserted island somewhere to see if you can make a non-spiritual civilization work... but I am willing to bet you'd fail. Of course, we'd have to first sort out the true non-believers from the ones who claim they don't believe but really do. That's at least half of the Atheists by my estimation.

So by your "logic" in this country where Atheists are shunned and mocked, at least half who believe in God pretend to be Atheists so they can be outcasts. Wouldn't it be more logical that it is the "believers" who would be more likely to pretend they believe for social acceptance when they actually don't believe? So if 50% of Atheists will pretend for social rejection, at least 99% of believers will pretend for social acceptance. So all those successful "spiritual" civilizations are actually mostly Atheistic and all the failed Atheistic civilizations are at least half spiritual.

Huhh? Are you back on the crack again? ...

When you lead with a personal insult, you admit you are wrong.
Thank you.

I didn't lead with a personal insult, I asked a question. It was prompted by the convoluted load of horse shit you reeled off.

Now you are just lying. To ask if I am "BACK" on crack is to insult me as a drug addict, as if the logical genius you pretend to be wouldn't know.

 

[Boss]

Now you are just lying. To ask if I am "BACK" on crack is to insult me as a drug addict, as if the logical genius you pretend to be wouldn't know.

Again, when you come up with some convoluted load of horse shit to try and spin something around and make an impossible point, you should expect people to think you are back on the crack again. I didn't say you were a drug addict, I don't know you. I hope you're not and I encourage you to not do crack before you post.

Back to the point... Most humans believe in something greater than self and always have. Most religious people also believe in something greater than self. AND... even a majority of Atheist people admit that it's possible something greater than self can exist. In fact, only about 5% of the human species are Nihilistic and believe in nothing.

 

[edthecynic]

Now you are just lying. To ask if I am "BACK" on crack is to insult me as a drug addict, as if the logical genius you pretend to be wouldn't know.

Again, when you come up with some convoluted load of horse shit to try and spin something around and make an impossible point, you should expect people to think you are back on the crack again. I didn't say you were a drug addict, I don't know you. I hope you're not and I encourage you to not do crack before you post.

Back to the point... Most humans believe in something greater than self and always have. Most religious people also believe in something greater than self. AND... even a majority of Atheist people admit that it's possible something greater than self can exist. In fact, only about 5% of the human species are Nihilistic and believe in nothing.

You don't speak for the human species. As I pointed out, many will pretend to be believers for social acceptance, so there is no way for you to know anything as you are not a mind-reader even though you pretend to be one.

 

[Boss]

Now you are just lying. To ask if I am "BACK" on crack is to insult me as a drug addict, as if the logical genius you pretend to be wouldn't know.

Again, when you come up with some convoluted load of horse shit to try and spin something around and make an impossible point, you should expect people to think you are back on the crack again. I didn't say you were a drug addict, I don't know you. I hope you're not and I encourage you to not do crack before you post.

Back to the point... Most humans believe in something greater than self and always have. Most religious people also believe in something greater than self. AND... even a majority of Atheist people admit that it's possible something greater than self can exist. In fact, only about 5% of the human species are Nihilistic and believe in nothing.

You don't speak for the human species. As I pointed out, many will pretend to be believers for social acceptance, so there is no way for you to know anything as you are not a mind-reader even though you pretend to be one.

Yes, we see people every day, lining up to be called Christians so that society won't ridicule them, make fun of them, call them religious wackos and mock their beliefs! ...Crack is wack, ed!