Zone1 why do some Protestants think that only they are Christians and the Catholics are not?

[alang1216]

That doesn’t explain the change in behaviors of the apostles or the first Christians worshiping Jesus as God immediately after his resurrection. It didn’t start later. It began immediately after his resurrection.

Did it? I have two issues with that:

1. If Jesus was considered divine by the apostles, how did the 'heresies' begin that said he was NOT divine.
2. He was considered divine by the time of the Gospel of John but I don't see that divinity in the earlier gospels.

 

[ding]

Did it? I have two issues with that:

1. If Jesus was considered divine by the apostles, how did the 'heresies' begin that said he was NOT divine.
2. He was considered divine by the time of the Gospel of John but I don't see that divinity in the earlier gospels.

You should make a thread on that and make your case. I’d love to see your evidence.

 

[ding]

Did it? I have two issues with that:

I think this is you looking for reasons to justify your beliefs after the fact. Because I seriously doubt that was in your calculus at 12 years old.

As such I doubt you put much effort into understanding and weighing it. It was a convenient way of confirming your bias without having to put in the work. But I promise you that when we discuss it, I’m going to force you to put the work into it.

 

[BreezeWood]

That doesn’t explain the change in behaviors of the apostles or the first Christians worshiping Jesus as God immediately after his resurrection. It didn’t start later. It began immediately after his resurrection.

jesus taught all in the heavens are equal, monotheism there is nothing to worship ...

the desert bibles, desert dwellers use monarchical precepts repudiated during the 1st century to instead worship and live in servitude and denial as a false religion, judaism.

there is not a resurrection recorded contemporaneously, text stone etchings clay reliefs of any kind or a likeness of jesus to demonstrate their popularity during the time and were there the roman authorities would have rearrested the itinerant and those proceedings would have been recorded and preserved.

 

[alang1216]

For example? And, evolved by whom, and why?

Did you also note that many of his teachings were already the precepts of Judaism?

The phrase "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" is a well-known Jesus quote from the Bible, specifically from the Gospel of John (John 8:7). It is one of my favorite messages from the Bible. It is not very Jewish but did Jesus really say it? It is not included in the earliest versions of John. Not a definitive example of course but I think it was a popular oral story, maybe from Jesus maybe from someone else, that someone or some group thought should be included. It is now accepted by Christians as part of Jesus' teachings. Are there other stories from other sources that became attributed to Jesus?

 

[alang1216]

The universe popping into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence all of which was improbable. Life coming from inanimate matter. Man knowing right from wrong and when he violates it not abandoning it but instead rationalizing he didn’t violate it.

Sorry but I don't think any of those could only be miracles and not natural events.

 

[hobelim]

Actually, we mourn His death and celebrate His resurrection. Did you forget that?

Whoever "we" is are confused. Catholics "celebrate" the death of Jesus at mass, the meaning of the word eucharist, pretending to memorialize his "sacrifice" to himself derp and then worship him in the form of a lifeless cracker MADE BY HUMAN HANDS that you eat and then flush down the toilet believing that Jesus died and paid the penalty for your sins so you won't be held accountable and in fact can continue to sin with impunity for life. Your church teaches the cracker becomes the Body of Christ, the flesh of God IN ACTUALITY. What blindness!

Its just a lie. The actual Body of Christ is made by God in the form of WORDS that must be heard not eaten.

No one in their right mind thinks God is stupid, that would be dumb. When an innocent man dies in our place and rises from the grave to take away the sin of the world, of course we celebrate His resurrection.

OK, Then you are stupid to not "see" how reprehensible unethical and immoral it is to accept that bullshit story, that God became a man only to be tortured and crucified so you can be an asshole and sin with impunity for life.

Pssst! The fact that you don't realize this is evidence that you are paying the penalty for your own despicable sins. You are an idolator who openly and brazenly practices idolatry which is a sin under penalty of death.

YOU HAVE YOUR REWARD ALREADY. Death, a curse that you so perfectly display.

Jesus being crucified 2000 years ago in no way saves you from the consequences of your own words and deeds. Thats about as stupid as believing that you can render cause and effect null and void by eating a sandwich.

Dummy.

Tell us, how much of the Mosaic Law are you following every day and what are you going to do about all the times you broke it? Does your HOA allow you to sacrifice animals? And, of course, you don't follow the whole Law, you pick and choose those pieces you find acceptable for yourself and ignore the others.

You, a he goat without blemish, have been carefully chosen and prepared as a sacrifice for the EXPIATION of sin. Your slaughter has been dedicated to the Lord. The flesh stripped from the bone will feed a multitude and the fat trimmed from the flesh and thrown on the fire is a soothing and fragrant offering to the Lord, my God.

 

[Meriweather]

The phrase "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" is a well-known Jesus quote from the Bible, specifically from the Gospel of John (John 8:7). It is one of my favorite messages from the Bible. It is not very Jewish but did Jesus really say it? It is not included in the earliest versions of John. Not a definitive example of course but I think it was a popular oral story, maybe from Jesus maybe from someone else, that someone or some group thought should be included. It is now accepted by Christians as part of Jesus' teachings. Are there other stories from other sources that became attributed to Jesus?

Good example, but there is nothing I can add to your own conclusions. We can't know. What I can add is what struck me about the story. It is said the scribes and pharisees (basically lawyers and those knowledgeable of scripture) brought the woman to Jesus. It said nothing about the witnesses also being present.

There is a well-known joke that after Jesus said the, "Whoever is without sin..." comment he turns to Mary and says, "Mom, put down that stone." The reason that joke would fall flat in Judaism, is that it was not a lawyer or a judge or a holy man who were permitted to cast the first stone. It was the witnesses of the sin who cast the first stone. (That's somewhere in Deuteronomy, and Mary was not a witness.)

I doubt it was a popular oral story among Jews because Jewish law was clear on such matters. However, it does fit in with those in authority testing Jesus who was well known for proclaiming, "Sins are forgiven" especially when the witnesses were not present.

 

[hadit]

Whoever "we" is are confused. Catholics "celebrate" the death of Jesus at mass, the meaning of the word eucharist, pretending to memorialize his "sacrifice" to himself derp and then worship him in the form of a lifeless cracker MADE BY HUMAN HANDS that you eat and then flush down the toilet believing that Jesus died and paid the penalty for your sins so you won't be held accountable and in fact can continue to sin with impunity for life. Your church teaches the cracker becomes the Body of Christ, the flesh of God IN ACTUALITY. What blindness!

Its just a lie. The actual Body of Christ is made by God in the form of WORDS that must be heard not eaten.

Interesting. You assume I'm Catholic. Obviously, you have not read much of what I have written. Please try again when you are coherent.

OK, Then you are stupid to not "see" how reprehensible unethical and immoral it is to accept that bullshit story, that God became a man only to be tortured and crucified so you can be an asshole and sin with impunity for life.

Again, interesting, and again, you obviously have not read much of what I have written on the subject. Nor do you have much of an idea what the Bible has to say about it.

Pssst! The fact that you don't realize this is evidence that you are paying the penalty for your own despicable sins. You are an idolator who openly and brazenly practices idolatry which is a sin under penalty of death.

YOU HAVE YOUR REWARD ALREADY. Death, a curse that you so perfectly display.

Jesus being crucified 2000 years ago in no way saves you from the consequences of your own words and deeds. Thats about as stupid as believing that you can render cause and effect null and void by eating a sandwich.

Dummy.

And you persist in attempting to turn attention from your failed assertions onto me. Apparently, you're not very aware that doesn't work on me.

You, a he goat without blemish, have been carefully chosen and prepared as a sacrifice for the EXPIATION of sin. Your slaughter has been dedicated to the Lord. The flesh stripped from the bone will feed a multitude and the fat trimmed from the flesh and thrown on the fire is a soothing and fragrant offering to the Lord, my God.

Your HOA allows you to sacrifice goats for your sin? Where do you live?

 

[hadit]

Good example, but there is nothing I can add to your own conclusions. We can't know. What I can add is what struck me about the story. It is said the scribes and pharisees (basically lawyers and those knowledgeable of scripture) brought the woman to Jesus. It said nothing about the witnesses also being present.

There is a well-known joke that after Jesus said the, "Whoever is without sin..." comment he turns to Mary and says, "Mom, put down that stone." The reason that joke would fall flat in Judaism, is that it was not a lawyer or a judge or a holy man who were permitted to cast the first stone. It was the witnesses of the sin who cast the first stone. (That's somewhere in Deuteronomy, and Mary was not a witness.)

I doubt it was a popular oral story among Jews because Jewish law was clear on such matters. However, it does fit in with those in authority testing Jesus who was well known for proclaiming, "Sins are forgiven" especially when the witnesses were not present.

Those who brought the woman to Jesus knew immediately that none were innocent because they were in sin by not bringing the man with her. The Law said that BOTH were to be stoned, yet they only brought the woman.

 

[hobelim]

Interesting. You assume I'm Catholic. Obviously, you have not read much of what I have written. Please try again when you are coherent.

Catholic, Protestant, what's the difference? You both swallowed the Roman bullshit story that Jesus paid the penalty for YOUR sins which is reprehensible unethical and immoral to allow and innocent man to die in your place.

 

[hadit]

Catholic, Protestant, what's the difference? You both swallowed the Roman bullshit story that Jesus paid the penalty for YOUR sins which is reprehensible unethical and immoral to allow and innocent man to die in your place.

Except for the fact that the entire early church believed that, Jesus was recognized by John The Baptist as such, and it wasn't a Roman story. I've shown you in Scripture where that assertion is false, yet you persist in it and refuse to deal with what I've shown you, instead insisting on lifting a quote out of context and talking about it.

This is what happens when you make up an entire theology to suit your own fancy instead of relying on the plain language of the Word of God.

 

[hobelim]

Your HOA allows you to sacrifice goats for your sin? Where do you live?

You may not realize this, go figure, but you, a he goat without blemish, have already been slaughtered with such skill and kindness that you didn't notice the knife slitting your throat or your blood draining into the ground.

I'm sure you won't mind being sacrificed for the benefit of others, just like Jesus, except, you are not innocent.

 

[ding]

jesus taught all in the heavens are equal, monotheism there is nothing to worship ...

the desert bibles, desert dwellers use monarchical precepts repudiated during the 1st century to instead worship and live in servitude and denial as a false religion, judaism.

there is not a resurrection recorded contemporaneously, text stone etchings clay reliefs of any kind or a likeness of jesus to demonstrate their popularity during the time and were there the roman authorities would have rearrested the itinerant and those proceedings would have been recorded and preserved.

Show me where Jesus taught that.

 

[hadit]

You may not realize this, go figure, but you, a he goat without blemish, have already been slaughtered with such skill and kindness that you didn't notice the knife slitting your throat or your blood draining into the ground.

So I'm the animal sacrifice? Doesn't this make you realize how wacked out your ideas are?

I'm sure you won't mind being sacrificed for the benefit of others, just like Jesus, except you are not innocent.

Where do you live that your HOA allows animal sacrifice?

 

[ding]

The phrase "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" is a well-known Jesus quote from the Bible, specifically from the Gospel of John (John 8:7). It is one of my favorite messages from the Bible. It is not very Jewish but did Jesus really say it? It is not included in the earliest versions of John. Not a definitive example of course but I think it was a popular oral story, maybe from Jesus maybe from someone else, that someone or some group thought should be included. It is now accepted by Christians as part of Jesus' teachings. Are there other stories from other sources that became attributed to Jesus?

Not exactly. Some scholars believe that the story of the woman caught in adultery, including this verse, might not be in its original location within the Gospel of John, though they still consider it authentic

 

[hobelim]

So I'm the animal sacrifice? Doesn't this make you realize how wacked out your ideas are?

Where do you live that your HOA allows animal sacrifice?

So was Jesus talking about separating the sheep from the goats whacked out too? Damn. Thick as a brick

And some people "believe" the Law has been made obsolete because Jesus fulfilled the Law until he was killed.

Thanks for helping me to reveal the wisdom of God in giving the command to refrain from the flesh of unclean creatures that DO NOT RUMINATE and for so generously demonstrating for all with eyes that see the bizarre, terrifying, and deeply disturbing death, a curse, for setting that simple and easy to comply with instruction aside.

The law has always been in effect and in full force. If you do not realize this its because you died a long time ago, in the very day you set aside the 1st command to worship and celebrate the death of a 1st century Jewish man.

DECADES AGO.

 

[hobelim]

Now, I have nuked your contention about why Pilot executed Jesus and you refuse to deal with it.

Pilate executed Jesus for sedition, for claiming to be a king, which was a threat to the authority of Caesar.

Believe whatever you want.

Even though the scriptures provided refute your contentions that Pilate was worried about the mob or his career.

Nuker.

 

[hadit]

And some people think the Law has been made obsolete because Jesus fulfilled the Law until he was killed.

Ah, and there you go again with your ignorance about what Jesus said. He didn't render the Law obsolete, He fulfilled it and established a new covenant when He raised Himself from the dead. Just as the school's teachers and principal no longer have authority over your daily life like they did when you were a child but you are expected to honor what they taught you, the Law doesn't prevent you from eating shellfish anymore, but you are expected to honor what it taught you.

Thanks for helping me to reveal the wisdom of God in giving the command to refrain from the flesh of unclean creatures that DO NOT RUMINATE and for so generously demonstrating for all with eyes to see the terrifying and deeply disturbing death, a curse, for setting that simple and easy to comply with instruction aside.

Okay, so you're guilty of taking part of the Law literally and the rest of it figuratively so you don't get in trouble with your HOA for sacrificing animals in your back yard. God doesn't like when you do that.

 

[hobelim]

He didn't render the Law obsolete, He fulfilled it and established a new covenant when He raised Himself from the dead. Just as the school's teachers and principal no longer have authority over your daily life like they did when you were a child but you are expected to honor what they taught you, the Law doesn't prevent you from eating shellfish anymore, but you are expected to honor what it taught you.

To fulfill the law is to comply with its demands, The "new" covenant was the same as the old covenant originally taught by Moses. The words of the law are figurative, the subjects hidden and one must dig deep to find it.

This is the Body of Christ, this teaching is "the flesh" of Jesus. No one who does not fulfill the law as Jesus did can have the life promised for compliance in them. "Unless you eat my flesh you can have no life in you."

The subject of Kosher law is not about food. Thats what Jesus was referring to when he said "eat my flesh".

The Law doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything but does warn that if you eat the flesh of unclean creatures that DO NOT RUMINATE you will surely die the death and devolve into an unclean creature that can't RUMINATE.

Same goes for bottom feeders, wolves, vultures, parasites, worms, talking serpents, dogs, teeming vermin who go down on all fours, creepy things that creep, are equivalent to narcissists, sadists, thieves, liars, sorcerers, scumbags, hypocrites, etc. All the creatures described whether clean or unclean represent human archetypes.

Its not rocket science. Kosher law can be summed up by saying if you fill your head with garbage it will defile and contaminate your mind, the seat of your conscious existence and experience of life, and you will die, go insane.

Thanks for helping me to show that the Law of God remains in effect and in full force.