Jesus said that when responding to the Pharisees who said,"You are not yet 50, how could you have "seen" Abraham." One should notice here that if Jesus was over 50 they would have believed that Jesus had seen Abraham which means understand Abraham. His response, "Before Abraham was born I am." is Jesus. saying that he knew all about Abraham because the God of Abraham was with him and in him. I was not a claim of being God. Thats what his enemies accused him of to discredit his teaching because even in the first century like it is to this day, anyone who claims to be God is insane. Thats what you are perpetuating. A slanderous lie.
Zone1 why do some Protestants think that only they are Christians and the Catholics are not?
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there4eyeM
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Please cite where.
"The Father and I are one." This is not Jesus claiming to be equal to God. This is claiming to agree with God.
If Jesus was claiming to be God he was coo coo for coco puffs just like many unfortunate souls that lost their mind during brutal Roman occupation, but I do not believe that Jesus was insane. He was preaching to the dead.
Some listened and rose to life, others didn't and continued in error understanding nothing.
Nonsense. "You're not even 50 years old, let alone hundreds". He had regularly astounded them with His knowledge and wisdom from a very young age, 12 years old, remember? They were very aware that He understood Abraham. That wasn't the issue, they were mocking His claim to have SEEN Abraham, not understood him.
"I AM" is one of God's titles and you deliberately avoid addressing Jesus taking it for Himself.
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To see Abraham is to understand Abraham. In the same way Jesus meant by saying, "if you have seen me (understood me) you have seen the Father (understood God). Again this is not a claim of being God.
Jesus was just a man.
Do you really think Jesus was saying that he looked like God who is Spirit, incorporeal, and has no visible shape or material form? Isn't that a bit daft? As daft as thinking Jesus claimed to see Abraham who was long dead.
Try thinking harder.
You can do it!
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"I AM" is one of God's titles. Jesus took it for himself.
Is everyone who says, I am, taking the title of God for themselves? Are you really that dense, blind? Damn.
You have my condolences.
So you have no problem perjuring yourself in the name of God? Now thats some stupid balls you are showing.
Here lies the test; The light has come into the world but men prefer darkness to light because their deeds are evil
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No, Jesus did when speaking to the 1st century Jews gathered around Him that understood perfectly what He meant.
Dude, you claim to understand the Jewish mindset of the day enough to insist they didn't mean what they said but don't understand that to a 1st century Jew steeped in the Mosaic Law, someone claiming to be "I AM" was taking one of God's titles for Himself? I knew you were dense, but this takes the cake.
Remember, they wanted to stone Him for making the claim. Sure, now you're going to insist they wanted to stone him because the sky was the wrong color of blue that day, but that's not the case.
Saying "before Abraham was born I am" is not taking a title of God for himself. It is saying that God who was with Jesus existed before Abraham was born. Nothing nutty about that. What you are saying is extremely irrational.
If that was true, they understood him perfectly, then why did they continue following "the traditions of men"?
Why didn't they realize they were wrong to hide the hidden meaning of the Law from even other Jewish people?
And rejected Jesus out of hand as a low level criminal of no account, a glutton and a drunk spewing hubris?
There would have been no reason for the Jews to attempt stoning Him if that's all He said. They knew EXACTLY what He was claiming when He said that, and for that tried to kill Him.
Because they thought He was committing blasphemy by claiming to be God. That's why they tried to kill Him, not because He claimed he understood Abraham. He claimed to be God by taking that title for Himself.
No, they were trying to kill Jesus for exposing them as actors and lying frauds who were keeping the hidden meaning of the law secret from even other Jews so they could lead smooth easy lives off the suffering of the laity.
Damn.
They even tried to find fault with Jesus for helping a donkey, that looked a lot like you, out of a ditch on Saturday.
Nope. In that entire passage, Jesus was talking about who He was, not any hidden meaning of the Law kept secret until you came along, just Him.
You do realize, don't you, that you are making my case for me by coming up with ludicrous ideas trying to pervert the plain message of the Scripture? Why did they want to kill Jesus? He said, "I AM". That's when they picked up the stones.
He didn't say "I am". He said, "before Abraham was born I am" meaning that God was in existence before Abraham was born. Thats it. Jesus said he was sent by God, God is the source of his being, and said God told him what to say and how to say it which all demonstrate the impossibility that Jesus was or claimed to be God.
Any being, including Jesus, whose source of existence is God cannot be God.
The name of God confirms this, God alone is "He who causes to exist". That right there is simple irrefutable logic.
So when you can add 1+1+1 maybe then you will begin to realize that you have been under a strong delusion.
And stop playing games that you can never win if God is God. Maybe not.
As far as now, it appears that you have been judged unworthy of the resurrection. You do have my condolences. Don't take it too hard. Others will rise to life right in front of your blind eyes while you spend the rest of your days in a state of cognitive dissonance under a strange delusion being tormented day and night in hell as REALITY contradicts your strange irrational beliefs day and night like a sulfurous consuming fire that will never go out.
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Jesus was just claiming to be the messiah, not God, and submitted the evidence of his deeds, revealing hidden teaching in the book of the Law, saying that he had already done what no other man (but the messiah) could do.
And he was right. As I am.
Now don't get your panties all in a bunch or start looking for stones to throw at me. I am not claiming to be God.
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BreezeWood
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never - the heavens are ultimately who refuted judaism in the 1st century for their claim the heavens would send a messiah to save them - et al.
- they, the exemplars were never jews.
Jesus never claimed to save anyone. Thats a 4th century Roman fabrication.
Every time someone was healed after hearing him teach he told them YOUR faith has made you whole.
It’s not moot. It’s evidence corroborating other evidence. It proves the accounts. And that scares you.
How do you explain the first century accounts by non-Christian historians which say otherwise?
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