Why do people still think the Bible was created at the Council of Nicaea?

[RandomVariable]

The JW Bible is unorthodox in many regards, namely Jesus just being a god. It wasn't even translated by scholars. But I never heard of anyone trying to take their bibles away, what's' your source?

Re-read my post and take note of the satire. The Catholic Church wouldn't approve a poorly translated Bibles and it is announced by Protestants as the Catholic Church not wanting the common people to read/have Bibles. Evangelicals won't approve the JW translation for the same reason, so shouldn't they be accused of not wanting JW to read/have bibles?

Do you not understand your own Church's doctrine? There is a philosophy behind the Church's treatment of Scripture.

 

[Iceweasel]

There's nothing natural about that, it's crazy talk. You said earlier that is was purely symbolic but if you believe it becomes a physical reality it's much more than just symbolism. It's right up there with Voodoo.

I did not say, "purely symbolic". I said sacraments are "visible signs of the invisible reality."

Here is the deal, when people in his day walked away from Christ when he said the same thing back then, he didn't go chasing after them. So don't expect a Catholic go chasing after you. We're sticking with Christ and what he said, but fully understand why you choose to walk.

I'm pointing out the flaws in your thinking, and you throw yet another one into the mix. Like moist religious types you very quickly fall back on condescension and arrogance since you have little more than a bag of hot air to go on.

When did I say I was expecting a Catholic to chase me around? I said the whole story makes no sense, is contrary to the evidence, not supported by historical facts, ignores the time, place and cultural influences of the day and relies heavily on the suspension of rational thought as you consider it all.

Your response is it isn't your job to convince me. No one asked you to, you can't. No more than I could convince you of Zeus, yet I don't go around saying it isn't my job to convince you of Zeus. If I make a statement I expect to have to back it up, you for whatever reason have no need but feel compelled to point it out over and over.

There's no invisible reality about the communion. It's an act of faith. At least nonCatholics are honest about it.

 

[Meriweather]

Is Elijah Catholic? Is the Catholic Church going to welcome Elijah with open arms? Some might worry that the Catholic Church is the modern equivalent of the Pharisees. What do you think? Just asking.

Paragraph 61 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church may interest you: It notes all the patriarchs, prophets, and certain other Old Testament figures have been and always will be honored as saints. So yes, Elijah and others the Church welcomes with open arms.

The Gospels note Jesus friendship with several Pharisees of his time and thought well of them. However, there were a certain set of Pharisees (Annas and his family and cronies) that Jesus named hypocrites. You are aware that the Pharisees, as a whole, were (and still are) sincere practitioners of their faith? I was taught this as a child, with this warning:

Just as Jesus pointed out the hypocrisy of those who claimed to be something they were not in his time, he would be just as quick to point out Catholic hypocrites in our time. Jesus did not hate the Pharisee. He hates hypocrisy whether that hypocrisy shows up in those who say they are practicing the Jewish faith or in those who say they are practicing the Catholic faith.

 

[Iceweasel]

Not to defend the guy in the clown costume but he OKed the forgiveness of the sins, he didn't say the sins were no longer sins.

Do you describe Quaker and Shaker attire as clown costumes? Clerical attire, like Quaker and Shaker attire, is simply attire from another time. In their time (and probably in future times), it would/will be us in modern day attire described as clowns.

That's silly. Bishops, popes and priests aren't wearing clothes from another time, they are wearing costumes to set themselves apart from the common man. I think it's funny and anyone would take carnival clothes seriously.

 

[Meriweather]

Do you not understand your own Church's doctrine? There is a philosophy behind the Church's treatment of Scripture.

I do understand not only Catholic doctrine, but Catholic tradition and history. Just as a student of math needs scholarly instruction to arrive at the accepted answer (think order of operations), so does the student of theology need scholarly instruction to understand its "order of operations."

If everyone decided upon their own order of operations, no one would arrive at the correct answer, and everyone would consider everyone else's answer to be wrong. You may have noticed with the division in Christianity in the 1500s, this is precisely what happened.

 

[Iceweasel]

The JW Bible is unorthodox in many regards, namely Jesus just being a god. It wasn't even translated by scholars. But I never heard of anyone trying to take their bibles away, what's' your source?

Re-read my post and take note of the satire. The Catholic Church wouldn't approve a poorly translated Bibles and it is announced by Protestants as the Catholic Church not wanting the common people to read/have Bibles. Evangelicals won't approve the JW translation for the same reason, so shouldn't they be accused of not wanting JW to read/have bibles?

You need to get off your high horse. You talk down to people at your own peril. First of all, asshole, I didn't say the Catholics were trying to take bibles away, that was someone else. YOU need to re-read the posts.

Nor is the JW bible just a poor translation, it departs from the foundation of Christianity so it's another religion entirely. I've read Catholic bibles and didn't see any significant difference between Protestant ones.

 

[Meriweather]

There's no invisible reality about the communion. It's an act of faith. At least nonCatholics are honest about it.

Catholics are honest in following and having faith in Jesus' precise words. If there is no invisible reality to you, I accept that for you this must be true, and I am not going to call you names or hurl insults at what you tell me is true for you.

For me, this invisible reality is more true than the tree growing outside my window. You have a choice. You can believe I am being completely honest--or completely deluded. Whatever you decide, I'm going to continue with truth and honesty.

 

[Iceweasel]

Do you not understand your own Church's doctrine? There is a philosophy behind the Church's treatment of Scripture.

I do understand not only Catholic doctrine, but Catholic tradition and history. Just as a student of math needs scholarly instruction to arrive at the accepted answer (think order of operations), so does the student of theology need scholarly instruction to understand its "order of operations."

If everyone decided upon their own order of operations, no one would arrive at the correct answer, and everyone would consider everyone else's answer to be wrong. You may have noticed with the division in Christianity in the 1500s, this is precisely what happened.

In other words, God was unable to make himself clear in his holy book.

LOL, that's fucking hilarious!

 

[Meriweather]

That's silly. Bishops, popes and priests aren't wearing clothes from another time, they are wearing costumes to set themselves apart from the common man. I think it's funny and anyone would take carnival clothes seriously.

Not silly. Google history of clerical attire. One of the things you may learn is that back in Roman times when fashions changed to more 'dandy' attire, the Church elected to stay with traditional attire.

 

[Iceweasel]

There's no invisible reality about the communion. It's an act of faith. At least nonCatholics are honest about it.

Catholics are honest in following and having faith in Jesus' precise words. If there is no invisible reality to you, I accept that for you this must be true, and I am not going to call you names or hurl insults at what you tell me is true for you.

For me, this invisible reality is more true than the tree growing outside my window. You have a choice. You can believe I am being completely honest--or completely deluded. Whatever you decide, I'm going to continue with truth and honesty.

There's no such thing as invisible reality, unless you're talking about gravity or something, but we can measure that. Your beliefs can only be measured by how tightly one clings to it in the face of rational thought. The symolic gesture of the communion is only that. You can't test the bread after it's swallowed and find anything but bread. It's faith, not reality. You aren't being honest about it at all.

 

[RandomVariable]

Do you not understand your own Church's doctrine? There is a philosophy behind the Church's treatment of Scripture.

I do understand not only Catholic doctrine, but Catholic tradition and history. Just as a student of math needs scholarly instruction to arrive at the accepted answer (think order of operations), so does the student of theology need scholarly instruction to understand its "order of operations."

If everyone decided upon their own order of operations, no one would arrive at the correct answer, and everyone would consider everyone else's answer to be wrong. You may have noticed with the division in Christianity in the 1500s, this is precisely what happened.

Exactly. And the question is whether it is even wise to have people running around teaching themselves math. The Church believes it unwise to have self-taught mathematicians out there. The best way to prevent that? Remove all the math books from society.

 

[Iceweasel]

That's silly. Bishops, popes and priests aren't wearing clothes from another time, they are wearing costumes to set themselves apart from the common man. I think it's funny and anyone would take carnival clothes seriously.

Not silly. Google history of clerical attire. One of the things you may learn is that back in Roman times when fashions changed to more 'dandy' attire, the Church elected to stay with traditional attire.

You live in a world of circular reasoning. The clerical attire was to set themselves apart from common man. Doing it today doesn't alter the fact.

 

[Meriweather]

You need to get off your high horse. You talk down to people at your own peril. First of all, asshole, I didn't say the Catholics were trying to take bibles away, that was someone else. YOU need to re-read the posts.

Nor is the JW bible just a poor translation, it departs from the foundation of Christianity so it's another religion entirely. I've read Catholic bibles and didn't see any significant difference between Protestant ones.

Okay, we're done. While I truly enjoy conversing about religion and beliefs with anyone over anything, and sharing tidbits I have picked up along the way, I don't let my own enjoyment take precedence over other people taking great offense over what I offer.

I was enjoying myself. You are not, so hopefully you can celebrate picturing me riding off on my "high horse." Sincerely, I hope your day only gets better from here, and I apologize for my posts making it less than pleasant.

 

[Meriweather]

Exactly. And the question is whether it is even wise to have people running around teaching themselves math. The Church believes it unwise to have self-taught mathematicians out there. The best way to prevent that? Remove all the math books from society.

No, the solution is not to remove all the math books, but to promote all math books giving proper instruction, and removing all math books that do not. People who are self taught from their study of proper math books, are in a different category from those who decide on their own order of operations (so-to-speak).

Scripture, of course, requires more input than just scripture itself. To properly understand scripture, one must also study the culture, history, and languages of the time--and how those languages differ from the ones in use today.

 

[RandomVariable]

Do you not understand your own Church's doctrine? There is a philosophy behind the Church's treatment of Scripture.

I do understand not only Catholic doctrine, but Catholic tradition and history. Just as a student of math needs scholarly instruction to arrive at the accepted answer (think order of operations), so does the student of theology need scholarly instruction to understand its "order of operations."

If everyone decided upon their own order of operations, no one would arrive at the correct answer, and everyone would consider everyone else's answer to be wrong. You may have noticed with the division in Christianity in the 1500s, this is precisely what happened.

In other words, God was unable to make himself clear in his holy book.

LOL, that's fucking hilarious!

Well that thing is really hard to make heads and tails of. And Jesus himself is always speaking of how the common man does not understand a thing He says but he will break it into simpler terms for His disciples. And that flesh and blood thing is pretty much verbatim.

 

[RandomVariable]

Exactly. And the question is whether it is even wise to have people running around teaching themselves math. The Church believes it unwise to have self-taught mathematicians out there. The best way to prevent that? Remove all the math books from society.

No, the solution is not to remove all the math books, but to promote all math books giving proper instruction, and removing all math books that do not. People who are self taught from their study of proper math books, are in a different category from those who decide on their own order of operations (so-to-speak).

Scripture, of course, requires more input than just scripture itself. To properly understand scripture, one must also study the culture, history, and languages of the time--and how those languages differ from the ones in use today.

You are glossing over the truth, just as you presented the changes the Pope is making to doctrine as having been there along and that everyone in the Church is on the same page with it. Whether or not you know truth would be an excellent, but pointless, question. You don't think if the Catholic Church could snap its fingers and every single Bible outside of its direct control would disappear it would do so?

 

[Iceweasel]

Do you not understand your own Church's doctrine? There is a philosophy behind the Church's treatment of Scripture.

I do understand not only Catholic doctrine, but Catholic tradition and history. Just as a student of math needs scholarly instruction to arrive at the accepted answer (think order of operations), so does the student of theology need scholarly instruction to understand its "order of operations."

If everyone decided upon their own order of operations, no one would arrive at the correct answer, and everyone would consider everyone else's answer to be wrong. You may have noticed with the division in Christianity in the 1500s, this is precisely what happened.

In other words, God was unable to make himself clear in his holy book.

LOL, that's fucking hilarious!

Well that thing is really hard to make heads and tails of. And Jesus himself is always speaking of how the common man does not understand a thing He says but he will break it into simpler terms for His disciples. And that flesh and blood thing is pretty much verbatim.

His disciples were common men. They lived with him yet it took Paul to come along later to explain what Jesus really meant. Then at some point somebody decided to commit the stories to paper, in Greek, although Jesus spoke in Arabaic (times changed that fast?) and of course it could have all been avoided if Jesus had simply written it himself. But where's the fun in that? God clearly wants the most important story ever told to be a mystery, wrapped in an enigma and spread in a haphazard fashion.

 

[hobelim]

There's nothing natural about that, it's crazy talk. You said earlier that is was purely symbolic but if you believe it becomes a physical reality it's much more than just symbolism. It's right up there with Voodoo.

exactly. Meriweather is being completely dishonest and evasive about this glaring fact.

The official catholic church teaching is that the eucharist, a lifeless object made by human hands, becomes the body of Christ during mass, not as a physical symbol of an invisible reality or present in some abstract way, but IN ACTUALITY.

Crazy talk.

If, according to scripture, the consequence for setting aside the law of God is death then anyone who teaches others to set aside the law is a murderer.....exactly like the talking serpent in the fairy tale.

If scripture is true, then meriweather, has confused losing his rational mind and being condemned to the realm of the dead as a consequence of idolatry with salvation and will spend the rest of his days crawling on his belly and eating dust for misleading others do the same.

 

[Meriweather]

You are glossing over the truth, just as you presented the changes the Pope is making to doctrine as having been there along and that everyone in the Church is on the same page with it. Whether or not you know truth would be an excellent, but pointless, question. You don't think if the Catholic Church could snap its fingers and every single Bible outside of its direct control would disappear it would do so?

Not any longer, no. Remember, at the time the Church and government were one, and the Church had the responsibility of making sure the people were taught correctly. They took this responsibility seriously.

We often forget how much the world has changed between those times and our times--and we make judgments on how things are today as opposed to how they were then.

When TV first appeared, one of the first things that happened was a panel of censors were installed. That's pretty much gone by the wayside as well. There is too much media out there, and beyond the control or responsibility of any one group.

The Church, just as it accepted the responsibility that was part of the world view then, accepts the realities of the today and works within the present scope. From my own observations, I think the Church prefers the world today over the world then--but that, of course, is a single opinion.

 

[RandomVariable]

You are glossing over the truth, just as you presented the changes the Pope is making to doctrine as having been there along and that everyone in the Church is on the same page with it. Whether or not you know truth would be an excellent, but pointless, question. You don't think if the Catholic Church could snap its fingers and every single Bible outside of its direct control would disappear it would do so?

Not any longer, no. Remember, at the time the Church and government were one, and the Church had the responsibility of making sure the people were taught correctly. They took this responsibility seriously.

We often forget how much the world has changed between those times and our times--and we make judgments on how things are today as opposed to how they were then.

When TV first appeared, one of the first things that happened was a panel of censors were installed. That's pretty much gone by the wayside as well. There is too much media out there, and beyond the control or responsibility of any one group.

The Church, just as it accepted the responsibility that was part of the world view then, accepts the realities of the today and works within the present scope. From my own observations, I think the Church prefers the world today over the world then--but that, of course, is a single opinion.

What time are you referring to?