Why do people still think the Bible was created at the Council of Nicaea?

[Meriweather]

It's pretty much right on in blunt terms. The bottom line is that you have to have a LOT of faith to believe if you know how the real world works and ignore all the coincidences, like God picking the time and place in history when Hellenized Jews were applying Greek philosophy to the Scripture of the day.

No, it is completely off base and thus comes across as irrational. I understand the target was to use satire, but it my opinion it just misses satire and edges into the irrational. Opinions, of course, will vary, but that is mine.

Some people of those times did see Scripture through the lens of Greek philosophy--or Roman philosophy--but it also comes across clearly through the lens of Hebrew teaching. From that perspective it could be said that the various philosophies of the time could not stop Christianity from spreading--and arguably, neither can the various philosophies of our own times.

 

[Meriweather]

OK, This is me thinking rationally.

You openly worship a lifeless material object made by human hands and then eat it for spiritual life. By every definition of the word you are by your own admission an idolator. According to scripture the consequence for idolatry is death.

If scripture is true, then you are dead.

The fact that you do not even have an inkling that your sin stands out like a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field confirms that you have your reward already and have descended into the netherworld which shows that the laws of God remain in effect and are in full force.

You are being more rational, and I thank you for that, but you are beginning with a wrong premise which can only lead to a wrong conclusion.

Christians worship God, and Him alone. Our belief is that He provides us with spiritual nourishment from Christ's (who is one with the Father) own body, much as a mother provides her infant with nourishment from her own body. This is an easy concept to follow, and then transcend from mother physically nourishing child to God spiritually nourishing His creation.

Christians worship God with body, mind, and soul, and what we do in physical form is the visible sign of the invisible (spiritual) reality.

 

[Iceweasel]

It's pretty much right on in blunt terms. The bottom line is that you have to have a LOT of faith to believe if you know how the real world works and ignore all the coincidences, like God picking the time and place in history when Hellenized Jews were applying Greek philosophy to the Scripture of the day.

No, it is completely off base and thus comes across as irrational. I understand the target was to use satire, but it my opinion it just misses satire and edges into the irrational. Opinions, of course, will vary, but that is mine.

Some people of those times did see Scripture through the lens of Greek philosophy--or Roman philosophy--but it also comes across clearly through the lens of Hebrew teaching. From that perspective it could be said that the various philosophies of the time could not stop Christianity from spreading--and arguably, neither can the various philosophies of our own times.

No it isn't "off base". I studied for 20 plus years and although you may take offense to the wording that's what it amounts to. If you could take an objective view you'd agree.

Hebrew teaching was hard line and unforgiving. It didn't change until they could barely speak Hebrew anymore since they were so immersed in Greek culture. It was all God's plan, whooops, there goes another huge act of faith to cling to.

 

[Iceweasel]

Christians worship God, and Him alone. Our belief is that He provides us with spiritual nourishment from Christ's (who is one with the Father) own body, much as a mother provides her infant with nourishment from her own body. This is an easy concept to follow, and then transcend from mother physically nourishing child to God spiritually nourishing His creation.

Christians worship God with body, mind, and soul, and what we do in physical form is the visible sign of the invisible (spiritual) reality.

But that's a contradiction. Physical is physical, spiritual is spiritual. You can't have it both ways. Performing a physical ritual to commemorate a spiritual feeling makes no sense. The communion is a carry over from earlier pagan rituals and shoe horned into Christianity as it became a state religion.

 

[Meriweather]

No it isn't "off base". I studied for 20 plus years and although you may take offense to the wording that's what it amounts to. If you could take an objective view you'd agree.

Hebrew teaching was hard line and unforgiving. It didn't change until they could barely speak Hebrew anymore since they were so immersed in Greek culture. It was all God's plan, whooops, there goes another huge act of faith to cling to.

Ah, but the wording he used is subjective, is it not? As is the idea that Christianity would not have survived had it not been for Hellenized Jews. It did not take Hellenized Jews to insure the survival of Christianity. The final subjective idea in your post is that it was part of God's plan.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Why do people still think the Bible was created at the Council of Nicaea?"

Why do people still think the bible was 'written' by a deity that doesn't exist would be the better question.

 

[Meriweather]

But that's a contradiction. Physical is physical, spiritual is spiritual. You can't have it both ways. Performing a physical ritual to commemorate a spiritual feeling makes no sense. The communion is a carry over from earlier pagan rituals and shoe horned into Christianity as it became a state religion.

Wrong on both counts. We are a physical and spiritual people and it makes sense that our worship incorporates both aspects of ourselves. No, communion isn't a "carry over" from paganism. Its roots are in Judaism and God providing manna for the Hebrew people in their sojourn in the desert.

Claiming that communion is a carry over from paganism is like claiming eating any meal, or having children is a carry over from paganism. In fact, cultures that have no or little contact with each other develop on their own.

 

[hobelim]

Christians worship God, and Him alone. Our belief is that He provides us with spiritual nourishment from Christ's (who is one with the Father) own body, much as a mother provides her infant with nourishment from her own body. This is an easy concept to follow, and then transcend from mother physically nourishing child to God spiritually nourishing His creation.

Christians worship God with body, mind, and soul, and what we do in physical form is the visible sign of the invisible (spiritual) reality.

But that's a contradiction. Physical is physical, spiritual is spiritual. You can't have it both ways. Performing a physical ritual to commemorate a spiritual feeling makes no sense. The communion is a carry over from earlier pagan rituals and shoe horned into Christianity as it became a state religion.

Its worse than that. The official catholic church teaching is that the eucharist, a lifeless material object made by human hands, becomes the body of Christ, IN ACTUALITY.

If God is spirit then he could never be transformed into a lifeless material object that can be eaten by human beings for spiritual life because some guy in robes says alakazam during some Mithraic eating of the god ceremony.

The entire belief is preposterous and the practice of turning to that which is made by human hands and has no life for spiritual life is in itself degrading.

 

[hobelim]

OK, This is me thinking rationally.

You openly worship a lifeless material object made by human hands and then eat it for spiritual life. By every definition of the word you are by your own admission an idolator. According to scripture the consequence for idolatry is death.

If scripture is true, then you are dead.

The fact that you do not even have an inkling that your sin stands out like a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field confirms that you have your reward already and have descended into the netherworld which shows that the laws of God remain in effect and are in full force.

You are being more rational, and I thank you for that, but you are beginning with a wrong premise which can only lead to a wrong conclusion.

Christians worship God, and Him alone. Our belief is that He provides us with spiritual nourishment from Christ's (who is one with the Father) own body, much as a mother provides her infant with nourishment from her own body. This is an easy concept to follow, and then transcend from mother physically nourishing child to God spiritually nourishing His creation.

Christians worship God with body, mind, and soul, and what we do in physical form is the visible sign of the invisible (spiritual) reality.

According to scripture there is only one God who has no visible shape or material form. He has no equal and there is no other god above or below him.

Spiritual nourishment can only come to people through words from above that Jesus received from God like manna from heaven, teaching that became flesh given for the life of the world. The teaching being how to correctly understand the figurative language use in the law that illuminates the only right way to conform to it that results in the fulfillment of the life promised for obedience. If you do not have that teaching about the law in you you cannot have the life promised to the law in you.

You worship a coequal triune god that you profess to believe became an edible human being. A god made man made matzo made by human hands. Flat out nuts.

according to scripture death is the only possible consequence to your irrational beliefs and degrading practices.

The fact that you do not even have an inkling that your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field shows that you have your reward already.

 

[Meriweather]

Its worse than that. The official catholic church teaching is that the eucharist, a lifeless material object made by human hands, becomes the body of Christ, IN ACTUALITY.

If God is spirit then he could never be transformed into a lifeless material object that can be eaten by human beings for spiritual life because some guy in robes says alakazam during some Mithraic eating of the god ceremony.

The entire belief is preposterous and the practice of turning to that which is made by human hands and has no life for spiritual life is in itself degrading.

Yes. Catholic teaching involves accepting the inherent mystery and belief in Christ's words, "Take and eat...this is my body. Take and drink, this is my blood..." The belief includes Christ being one with God, the Word of God, made flesh.

The Catholic Church does not see your words as an argument against the Church, rather an argument you are having with Christ. Catholics have no such argument with Christ. He said, and we take it on faith.

Over the past two thousand years, many, if not most Catholic believers, have experienced spiritual nourishment through the Eucharist and the power of the Holy Spirit.

I'm wondering, why does faith, and belief of others, bother you so much?

 

[Iceweasel]

No it isn't "off base". I studied for 20 plus years and although you may take offense to the wording that's what it amounts to. If you could take an objective view you'd agree.

Hebrew teaching was hard line and unforgiving. It didn't change until they could barely speak Hebrew anymore since they were so immersed in Greek culture. It was all God's plan, whooops, there goes another huge act of faith to cling to.

Ah, but the wording he used is subjective, is it not? As is the idea that Christianity would not have survived had it not been for Hellenized Jews. It did not take Hellenized Jews to insure the survival of Christianity. The final subjective idea in your post is that it was part of God's plan.

You missed a whole bunch then. I didn't say the Hellenized Jews insured Christianity's survival, I said they invented it. The Romans insured the survival when it was adopted as the official state religion and they killed those singing out of harmony. That's history. You choose to believe something else. Something that takes increasing amounts of faith to hold onto unless you simply shut down intellectually.

 

[Iceweasel]

But that's a contradiction. Physical is physical, spiritual is spiritual. You can't have it both ways. Performing a physical ritual to commemorate a spiritual feeling makes no sense. The communion is a carry over from earlier pagan rituals and shoe horned into Christianity as it became a state religion.

Wrong on both counts. We are a physical and spiritual people and it makes sense that our worship incorporates both aspects of ourselves. No, communion isn't a "carry over" from paganism. Its roots are in Judaism and God providing manna for the Hebrew people in their sojourn in the desert.

Claiming that communion is a carry over from paganism is like claiming eating any meal, or having children is a carry over from paganism. In fact, cultures that have no or little contact with each other develop on their own.

Wrong on all counts. Communions of various sorts were around before the invention of Christianity. Pretending a piece of cracker and grape juice is the body and blood of Jesus very much aligns with pagan practices that didn't separate the physical with the spiritual. It makes no sense to use a physical device to illustrate a spiritual point especially when the physical self is to be denied as much as possible. Why bring people back regularly to the root of their issues?

There's no evidence for the wandering in the wilderness, exodus or even mass amounts of Jewish slaves. Even so how is manna from heaven represented with bread and wine? Never even heard that spin before. The manna was a gift from god according to the story, just laying on the ground for consumption. The blood/body of Jesus is something requiring faith and acceptance, not the same thing at all.

 

[Iceweasel]

Christians worship God, and Him alone. Our belief is that He provides us with spiritual nourishment from Christ's (who is one with the Father) own body, much as a mother provides her infant with nourishment from her own body. This is an easy concept to follow, and then transcend from mother physically nourishing child to God spiritually nourishing His creation.

Christians worship God with body, mind, and soul, and what we do in physical form is the visible sign of the invisible (spiritual) reality.

But that's a contradiction. Physical is physical, spiritual is spiritual. You can't have it both ways. Performing a physical ritual to commemorate a spiritual feeling makes no sense. The communion is a carry over from earlier pagan rituals and shoe horned into Christianity as it became a state religion.

Its worse than that. The official catholic church teaching is that the eucharist, a lifeless material object made by human hands, becomes the body of Christ, IN ACTUALITY.

If God is spirit then he could never be transformed into a lifeless material object that can be eaten by human beings for spiritual life because some guy in robes says alakazam during some Mithraic eating of the god ceremony.

The entire belief is preposterous and the practice of turning to that which is made by human hands and has no life for spiritual life is in itself degrading.

Yes, I'm familiar with that, the Transsomethingoranother effect. I read up on the rationale and it made my head hurt.

 

[Iceweasel]

Its worse than that. The official catholic church teaching is that the eucharist, a lifeless material object made by human hands, becomes the body of Christ, IN ACTUALITY.

If God is spirit then he could never be transformed into a lifeless material object that can be eaten by human beings for spiritual life because some guy in robes says alakazam during some Mithraic eating of the god ceremony.

The entire belief is preposterous and the practice of turning to that which is made by human hands and has no life for spiritual life is in itself degrading.

Yes. Catholic teaching involves accepting the inherent mystery and belief in Christ's words, "Take and eat...this is my body. Take and drink, this is my blood..." The belief includes Christ being one with God, the Word of God, made flesh.

The Catholic Church does not see your words as an argument against the Church, rather an argument you are having with Christ. Catholics have no such argument with Christ. He said, and we take it on faith.

Over the past two thousand years, many, if not most Catholic believers, have experienced spiritual nourishment through the Eucharist and the power of the Holy Spirit.

I'm wondering, why does faith, and belief of others, bother you so much?

That seriously stupid. If you don't swallow the full steamy pile you are arguing with the pile, not the people trying to feed it to you? Buddhists feel nourished too, what does that prove besides brainwashing can make you feel good?

 

[Meriweather]

You worship a coequal triune god that you profess to believe became an edible human being. A god made man made matzo made by human hands. Flat out nuts.

You started out well on common ground. There is one God, and God is spirit. You use the word 'Law' and I have no issue with that, but I tend to think in terms of what God said about His creation. It was good. The anti-matter to good is evil. When evil collides with goodness...annihilation, or the idea that evil cannot exist along side what is good.

Then your next statement (above) has you so far from understanding Christ and Catholic belief you disappear from the radar. We do not profess that God "became an edible human being." That is even further than falsehood and sheer lunacy--it is falsehood rooted in sheer ignorant lunacy. It's like someone taking the fact we reference "a quarter moon" to insist this means we are saying that three quarters of the moon's actual material vanishes into nothing, but then grows back.

according to scripture death is the only possible consequence to your irrational beliefs and degrading practices.

As we don't do anything close to what you are describing, your conclusion as to what will happen is meaningless.

The fact that you do not even have an inkling that your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field shows that you have your reward already.

The lack of a modicum of understanding of Catholic belief, faith, and practices is the white boulder in the middle of a plowed field. Did you arrive at these conclusions all on your own?

 

[Iceweasel]

Then your next statement (above) has you so far from understanding Christ and Catholic belief you disappear from the radar. We do not profess that God "became an edible human being." That is even further than falsehood and sheer lunacy--it is falsehood rooted in sheer ignorant lunacy. It's like someone taking the fact we reference "a quarter moon" to insist this means we are saying that three quarters of the moon's actual material vanishes into nothing, but then grows back.

according to scripture death is the only possible consequence to your irrational beliefs and degrading practices.

As we don't do anything close to what you are describing, your conclusion as to what will happen is meaningless.

The fact that you do not even have an inkling that your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field shows that you have your reward already.

The lack of a modicum of understanding of Catholic belief, faith, and practices is the white boulder in the middle of a plowed field. Did you arrive at these conclusions all on your own?

Explain Catholic communion then.

 

[Meriweather]

You missed a whole bunch then. I didn't say the Hellenized Jews insured Christianity's survival, I said they invented it. The Romans insured the survival when it was adopted as the official state religion and they killed those singing out of harmony. That's history. You choose to believe something else. Something that takes increasing amounts of faith to hold onto unless you simply shut down intellectually.

Hellenized Jews did not "invent" Christianity.

 

[Meriweather]

Explain Catholic communion then.[/QUOTE]

Catholics believe and trust Christ's statements of, "This is my body...This is my blood."

 

[Iceweasel]

Catholics believe and trust Christ's statements of, "This is my body...This is my blood."

That's an evasion. Does the bread and blood become Jesus' body?

 

[Meriweather]

That's an evasion. Does the bread and blood become Jesus' body?

Not an evasion at all, a simple statement that Catholics believe and trust Christ's statements of "This is my body...This is my blood." This faith and trust naturally includes the belief that Christ's body and blood are present in the bread and wine.