Why aren't theists considered mentally ill?

[Delta4Embassy]

No, he asked why aren't theists considered mentally ill. A self-loathing statement if there ever was one...

I'm not a theist. I'm Jewish but not theist. I dislike the term atheist though, prefer areligious. I don't agree with religious ideas about God. But agree some religious tenets and practices are positive and beneficial to those who subscribe to them along with whatever society they belong to. Like "love thy neighbor." But I don't for example believe God is a sentient discrete being of some sort. Be glad to but only after some scientists explains how that'd be possible.

 

[Youch]

No, he asked why aren't theists considered mentally ill. A self-loathing statement if there ever was one...

I'm not a theist. I'm Jewish but not theist. I dislike the term atheist though, prefer areligious. I don't agree with religious ideas about God. But agree some religious tenets and practices are positive and beneficial to those who subscribe to them along with whatever society they belong to. Like "love thy neighbor." But I don't for example believe God is a sentient discrete being of some sort. Be glad to but only after some scientists explains how that'd be possible.

I did not say you were a theist. The fact that you are not was inferred by the title of the thread.

Please respond to my posts above.

 

[Hollie]

Specificly, suffering from delusional disorder? Reading up on it for another thread, the description sounded awfully familar.

"Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.

People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted."

Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.


EVERYbody has the same right to be wrong. The ancient stories of creation by the God of Abraham can no more be disproved than can the theories of evolution or any other creation stories Monkeys believe in.

If Christians, Muslims and Jews are deluded, the same can be said for believers in Evolution and The Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.

You make valid points but we're left to deal with some inescapable realities surrounding religious fundamentalists.

These are the folks who pre-define the supernatural as "excused" from any verifiable standard and then proceed calmly and "reasonably" inside that paradigm. At their level, it's "religious belief". At another level, it's utter delusion. Both are the same break from reality, the only difference is in degree and in overt harm it might cause.

"Faith" means you have no way to discern the difference.

Reason lets us understand both for what they actually are.

We need to be on our guard against the science-hating, literalist view embracing, “gods did it” screaming”, types. People don’t fly commercial airliners into mega-buildings because they’re unhappy with the in-flight meal. They do so out of deep seated convictions regarding their religious views and carnal rewards in the afterlife.

Similarly, Christian fundamentalists with their eye on the ball regarding the "Endtimes" are not behaving in a manner that is conducive to a healthy and productive life. There are consequences to a worldview (akin to fascism), wherein the heathens are low life's who will not pass into "heaven" when the gawds return and once again wipe humanity from the planet.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Just because religious beliefs are longstanding ones shared by many doesn't make them sacrosanct any more than "the world is flat" once did.

True.


But neither does it constitute mental illness.


Although those of us free from faith might find it tempting to infer that theism is 'mental illness,' we must concede that this is in fact not the case.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I did not say you were a theist. The fact that you are not was inferred by the title of the thread.

Please respond to my posts above.

Which? Thought I had. New format isn't making it easy to reply to everything. If using reply and someone's quotes it'll send out false-positive laerts simply because a person's reply to a reply is in the chain of replies referenced. Want a specific reply you'll need to manually delete some of the superfluous replies so just what you're rplying to is cited.

 

[Capstone]

If it's any consolation, you failed for good reason. It's a necessary question.

No, it's the sort of misrepresentation antisemites have used for a long time to malign Jews. ...

That may be so, but from a purely secular viewpoint, it's easy to see how the practice might seem backward ...and, more importantly, horribly abusive.

When my wife told the doctor who delivered our son that he wouldn't be circumcised, the doctor's response was, "Good. One less person for me to try to dissuade." -- That was back in 1992. The medical consensus has swung away from the propaganda of superstition in recent decades.

...And the sort of thing that said to some Jews will get you killed like trying to flush a Qur'an down a toilet to Muslims.

Maybe that kind of zeal is where the line should be drawn. In my opinion, there's no room for zealots like those in a civilized society.

 

[Youch]

I did not say you were a theist. The fact that you are not was inferred by the title of the thread.

Please respond to my posts above.

Which? Thought I had. New format isn't making it easy to reply to everything. If using reply and someone's quotes it'll send out false-positive laerts simply because a person's reply to a reply is in the chain of replies referenced. Want a specific reply you'll need to manually delete some of the superfluous replies so just what you're rplying to is cited.

Your technical difficulties prevents you from reading your own thread?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

That may be so, but from a purely secular viewpoint, it's easy to see how the practice might seem backward ...and, more importantly, horribly abusive.

When my wife told the doctor who delivered our son that he wouldn't be circumcised, the doctor's response was, "Good. One less person for me to try to dissuade." -- That was back in 1992. The medical consensus has swung away from the propaganda of superstition in recent decades.



Maybe that kind of zeal is where the line should be drawn. In my opinion, there's no room for zealots like those in a civilized society.

Reason for the American practice of hospital male circumcision has nothing to do with superstition/religion. It's a simply a beneficial practice like putting those drops in a newborn's eyes to ward off whatever it's warding off. And the dozen or so other standard practices used on newborns. Antisemites though have tried to link medical circumcision to the Jewish practice simply to attack Judaism. be like trying to go after removal of the apendix or tonsils if Jews did it ritually. The two would have nothing to do with one another.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We need to be on our guard against the science-hating, literalist view embracing, “gods did it” screaming”, types. People don’t fly commercial airliners into mega-buildings because they’re unhappy with the in-flight meal. They do so out of deep seated convictions regarding their religious views and carnal rewards in the afterlife.


Agreed.


And this would constitute mental illness.


Theism is not mental illness in of itself, but it clearly can manifest as, or contribute to, mental illness.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Your technical difficulties prevents you from reading your own thread?

When ya participate in a few dozen concurrently and ALerts are coming in half a dozen at a time, yes, it's making it difficult to follow every post in one thread in particular.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Sorry, but my world doesn't revolve around you.

 

[Youch]

When ya participate in a few dozen concurrently and ALerts are coming in half a dozen at a time, yes, it's making it difficult to follow every post in one thread in particular.

Sorry, but my world doesn't revolve around you.

Horse shit. This isn't that complicated. You think you are the only one dealing with multiple threads, debates and life?

And when asked to read your own thread before replying all you can do is insult? Talk about mental disorders...

I suspect you didn't like my responses to your "complicated world of threads and topics" and thus you don't respond accordingly by pretending to not be able to read.

Game on, pal....

 

[Bfgrn]

How do I avoid plagiarism?

Signal. Clearly signal whenever you are using someone else's words, whether you are using them by direct quotation or paraphrase. Any direct quotation must be indicated by two things: "quotation marks" (or else "block quotation") plus a "reference" (also called a "citation") to the source. A reference alone is not sufficient to signal a direct quotation.

Source: http://integrity.ou.edu/files/nine_things_you_should_know.pdf

Academia standards and rules do not apply on a casual discussion website. But if wishing made it so...

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[Delta4Embassy]

Horse shit. This isn't that complicated. You think you are the only one dealing with multiple threads, debates and life?

And when asked to read your own thread before replying all you can do is insult? Talk about mental disorders...

I suspect you didn't like my responses to your "complicated world of threads and topics" and thus you don't respond accordingly by pretending to not be able to read.

Game on, pal....

One of the rules of debate I learned ins chool was "the one cusses first looses."

I win. Have a nice day.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Horse shit. This isn't that complicated. You think you are the only one dealing with multiple threads, debates and life?

And when asked to read your own thread before replying all you can do is insult? Talk about mental disorders...

I suspect you didn't like my responses to your "complicated world of threads and topics" and thus you don't respond accordingly by pretending to not be able to read.

Game on, pal....

One of the rules of debate I learned in school was "the one who cusses first looses."

I win. Have a nice day.

 

[BlackSand]

Your argument's opening a can of worms re: what's 'normal?'

According to estimates, 20 million Americans suffer a mental illness called clinical depression. There's only 14 million Jews on the entire planet. So is being clinically depressed more 'normal' than being Jewish? Or is the fact that a lot of people suffer an abnormal neurological function simply a treatable condition?

Religious beliefs are indeed part of human nature. But specific beliefs are not as they come and go as religions do. We've been doing human burial longer than any other reliigous observance, long before we started wriitng religions down. But claiming 'this sends you to hell' or 'your beloved family member is in hell for doing this' is overly specific and not something that can be chalked up to 'normal behaviour.' That's more inline with a mental illness causing very specific, and unfounded beliefs.

What are the estimates in regards to how many of those diagnosed with clinical depression are religious followers?

If a substantial number of clinically depressed did not follow any religion ... Then using your logic religion could be considered a suitable cure for clinical depression.

.

 

[hobelim]

Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.


EVERYbody has the same right to be wrong. The ancient stories of creation by the God of Abraham can no more be disproved than can the theories of evolution or any other creation stories Monkeys believe in.

If Christians, Muslims and Jews are deluded, the same can be said for believers in Evolution and The Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.

Whether the theory of evolution can be proven or not all of the available evidence supports the theory of evolution and all the available evidence does not support the creation story at all.

The facts suggest that either the creation story is completely false or it is an allegorical story that was never intended to be taken literally by the intelligent.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

What are the estimates in regards to how many of those diagnosed with clinical depression are religious followers?

If a substantial number of clinically depressed did not follow any religion ... Then using your logic religion could be considered a suitable cure for clinical depression.

.

So atheism as a cure for clinical depression? I dunno, get kinda bummed myself not believing in God. It's not like that world-view is objectively better than the delusional one or anything. When we die we cease to exist, hooray

 

[Youch]

Horse shit. This isn't that complicated. You think you are the only one dealing with multiple threads, debates and life?

And when asked to read your own thread before replying all you can do is insult? Talk about mental disorders...

I suspect you didn't like my responses to your "complicated world of threads and topics" and thus you don't respond accordingly by pretending to not be able to read.

Game on, pal....

One of the rules of debate I learned in school was "the one who cusses first looses."

I win. Have a nice day.

What school was that, the school of not being able to handle more than one topic at a time? Or the school of not giving respect to those who bother to respond to your topic/attempt at debate? Oh wait, perhaps you didn't want to debate!?! Ha....

After all your effort to post this topic, you wilt at a reasonable question and position posted in response? And do so by making excuses? Seriously? And then completely bail? And then insult? And then dismiss by saying you win?

My goodness...it was your own thread for criminy sakes.... you can't even discuss your own topic????? Just like the dude Crick...

 

[Delta4Embassy]

What school was that, the school of not being able to handle more than one topic at a time? Or the school of not giving respect to those who bother to respond to your topic/attempt at debate? Oh wait, perhaps you didn't want to debate!?! Ha....

After all your effort to post this topic, you wilt at a reasonable question and position posted in response? And do so by making excuses? Seriously? And then completely bail? And then insult? And then dismiss by saying you win?

My goodness...it was your own thread for criminy sakes.... you can't even discuss your own topic????? Just like the dude Crick...

Fine. I take it back. You win. Now go 'way.