Why are we so polarized?

[WillowTree]

I don't "love" welfare....I do champion social programs because they are necessary.

Let me ask you something....why don't you criticize the Capitalists that make those programs necessary? Why don't you support. working people and only support those that profit off of them? If those people are so essential and working folk are so expendible....let's have a private sector, nationwide strike and let's see how much gets done.

Oh...but that's right....you don't believe that the workforce has any rights....they are the "job creator's" bitches.

We don't need more government programs....we need a Teddy Roosevelt behind the helm and a Lech Walesa to tally the workforce.

what do you plan to replace capitalism with?

My guess would be, un-free enterprise.

that would be my guess too, well guess what, corporations don't have to live under dictators like steelplate and his ilk, they can move anywhere in the world they want to so my question to him is what would he replace them with? He still hasn't answered.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Uh, after watching Obamination, Biden, Pelosi, Reid, etc lie to the TV cameras the past couple years....I will call someone stupid and evil when I see they are stupid and evil people.

I'm guessing you're a liberal....

So did Romney "kill" a woman with cancer? Did Obamination really increase domestic oil drilling in this country with "his policies?" Did Obamination lie about the Libya massacre? Etc, etc,.... The answer is in those answers....

The nation is split between people that don't like the federal govt acting like it is in charge of our lives and it has the right to "even the playing field" because some people are just dumb, lazy or whatever to explain their plight in life.

Also, we don't like the Democraps that pander to islam while trashing Christians and the Jews on any foreign policy/national security issue. Islamic terrorists want to take us back to the stone ages and Democraps either support it or don't care.

It gets back to stupid, evil people. Democraps are stupid, evil people. I don't like those kind of people and believe some of them should be locked away for the sake of mankind's future.

This post illustrates exactly why we are polarized. When you label those with whom you disagree as stupid and evil, you don't leave a lot of wiggle room for meaningful dialogue.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

An interesting article from BBC. I think sites like this, Brietbart, Daily Kos and the likes of Fox and MSNBC are first and foremost among the culprits. The internet has allowed us to accomplish a great deal, but the drawbacks are becoming more apparent with each passing year. Also, much of MSM has dropped it's impartiality in favor of gaining ratings with those who want news spun their way. I don't know if it will ever get better.

Well, now I see that I have to have 15 points (whatever the hell those are) to post a link to other sites. Kinda silly. Anyway the article is on BBC's web page and is called "What happened to America's community spirit?", if some one with this ponderous posting privilege is inclined to link it.

I wonder if I can say that.

Much of the problem stems from the fact that there is really nothing politicians and policy makers can do to address many of the issues facing the Nation, neither party nor political ideology has or can offer anything new.

Consequently that leaves only the wedge/hot button issues, where there are clear and distinct differences between and among the various political factions.

As far as much of MSM dropping it's ‘impartiality’ in favor of gaining ratings, ratings have always been the guiding factor with regard to all news media, not ideology. The notion of a ‘biased’ news media is therefore a myth.

The problem is that many confuse entertainment media, such as Fox ‘news’ and MSMBC, as actual journalism, which both are clearly not. Many also incorrectly perceive the news media as ‘bias’ when they report facts which conflict with political dogma.

 

[peach174]

You just stated that they are making more profits but they can't afford to hire more employees or expand their businesses. That is a complete contradiction.

Do you have a savings account, Steelplate?

Your business makes 10,000.00 a month in profit. The new health care bill will cost you more if you hire new people, so you will not hire. You keep your 10,000.00 and no one else will have a new job with your businesses.
When you sit on your 10,000.00 a month and put it in savings, that saving accumulates a percentage in profits, you make more money by sitting on it rather than expansion of businesses.
I personally would rather want to keep my 10,000.00, than hire more people and only make 5,000.00 a month.

Of course you would. So, the real question is.....why didn't you support a Public Option that would have cost you an extra $1000/month in the form of taxation rather than the the current on that costs you $5000 in the form of the mandate?

The need for expansion goes beyond the cost of the mandate. The problem, once again...is why does your company not grow? Why aren't you selling enough goods or services to expand? Could it be that people don't have money? Could it be that at $12K/year for health insurance, that it's keeping people from using your product?

I support health care competition and lowering the cost of health care.
Not government run health care.
No one has any money because of a huge government who takes 2.2 trillion of our wealth and wants more programs and more taxes. Government Departments that takes more of our wealth in the form of, way over the top regulations.

Why do you think that it costs 12k a year for health insurance?
Government interference that's what.

 

[Steelplate]

what do you plan to replace capitalism with?

Who said anything about replacing Capitalism? I just want mega-conglomerates broken up, their power and influence reduced and be held accountable to their country which is faltering because of all the breaks that they've been given and has not been reciprocal.

oh,, so it's okay to mess with them but don't mess with unions,, is that your take on it?

Ok...read my post to ladygunslinger about unions...I distinctly said that unions shouldn't get too powerful either.

 

[peach174]

An interesting article from BBC. I think sites like this, Brietbart, Daily Kos and the likes of Fox and MSNBC are first and foremost among the culprits. The internet has allowed us to accomplish a great deal, but the drawbacks are becoming more apparent with each passing year. Also, much of MSM has dropped it's impartiality in favor of gaining ratings with those who want news spun their way. I don't know if it will ever get better.

Well, now I see that I have to have 15 points (whatever the hell those are) to post a link to other sites. Kinda silly. Anyway the article is on BBC's web page and is called "What happened to America's community spirit?", if some one with this ponderous posting privilege is inclined to link it.

I wonder if I can say that.

Much of the problem stems from the fact that there is really nothing politicians and policy makers can do to address many of the issues facing the Nation, neither party nor political ideology has or can offer anything new.

Consequently that leaves only the wedge/hot button issues, where there are clear and distinct differences between and among the various political factions.

As far as much of MSM dropping it's ‘impartiality’ in favor of gaining ratings, ratings have always been the guiding factor with regard to all news media, not ideology. The notion of a ‘biased’ news media is therefore a myth.

The problem is that many confuse entertainment media, such as Fox ‘news’ and MSMBC, as actual journalism, which both are clearly not. Many also incorrectly perceive the news media as ‘bias’ when they report facts which conflict with political dogma.

They are not reporting Facts. Every single news outlet and news paper reported that Seniors would would be harmed by Paul Ryan's health care option.
Not one of them reported correctly that Senior's under 55 would be affected.
That is bias reporting. It favored the Dem's Health care over the Republican health care.

 

[Steelplate]

Do you have a savings account, Steelplate?

Your business makes 10,000.00 a month in profit. The new health care bill will cost you more if you hire new people, so you will not hire. You keep your 10,000.00 and no one else will have a new job with your businesses.
When you sit on your 10,000.00 a month and put it in savings, that saving accumulates a percentage in profits, you make more money by sitting on it rather than expansion of businesses.
I personally would rather want to keep my 10,000.00, than hire more people and only make 5,000.00 a month.

Of course you would. So, the real question is.....why didn't you support a Public Option that would have cost you an extra $1000/month in the form of taxation rather than the the current on that costs you $5000 in the form of the mandate?

The need for expansion goes beyond the cost of the mandate. The problem, once again...is why does your company not grow? Why aren't you selling enough goods or services to expand? Could it be that people don't have money? Could it be that at $12K/year for health insurance, that it's keeping people from using your product?

I support health care competition and lowering the cost of health care.
Not government run health care.
No one has any money because of a huge government who takes 2.2 trillion of our wealth and wants more programs and more taxes. Government Departments that takes more of our wealth in the form of, way over the top regulations.

Why do you think that it costs 12k a year for health insurance?
Government interference that's what.

Really? the profit driven insurance companies, hospitals, doctor's offices, Pharmaceutical and Med-Tech industries have no blame at all?

 

[Erand7899]

It has a lot to do with the attitude of the President. I don't remember any other President calling other Americans 'the enemy'. The man just fucking sucks.

But he's funny.... not intentionally, I know... but that comment about having learned that he's supposed to work for ALL Americans made me laugh. The clue is in the job title. What a fucking doofus those borg elected.

That's a funny statement when Republicans have made it more than clear that they are only working for the top 20% of income earners. Blaming everything on the poor like the cons do is embarrassing to say the least, especially when conservative policies have only made life that much harder for those at the lower end.

Republicans have not made that clear, your inability to understand what the Republican message is has made that clear to you. You fail to understand, that the standard of living of the working class and the poor are highly dependent upon a healthy upper middle class. The people that you love to hate, provide the vast majority of jobs that enable the working class and the poor to have a better life.

 

[Erand7899]

does the divider in chief understand what he's done?

Hell, let's go our separate ways.. I'm all for it. Who will liberals get to work to support their social programs and bums though?

Funny...you do realize that it's the red States that suck up most of the milk from the government teat, don't you?

The simple fact that you believe your statement is some form of argument says a whole lot about you and your thought processes. Red states and blue states are only red or blue at the margins, and all states are American states. (With the possible exception of California.)

 

[boedicca]

Alexis de Tocqueville figured it out long ago:

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”


We started to jump the shark with the combination of The Fed, the 16th Amendment and the New Deal. Whether or not we can unjump it will be decided soon.

 

[peach174]

Of course you would. So, the real question is.....why didn't you support a Public Option that would have cost you an extra $1000/month in the form of taxation rather than the the current on that costs you $5000 in the form of the mandate?

The need for expansion goes beyond the cost of the mandate. The problem, once again...is why does your company not grow? Why aren't you selling enough goods or services to expand? Could it be that people don't have money? Could it be that at $12K/year for health insurance, that it's keeping people from using your product?

I support health care competition and lowering the cost of health care.
Not government run health care.
No one has any money because of a huge government who takes 2.2 trillion of our wealth and wants more programs and more taxes. Government Departments that takes more of our wealth in the form of, way over the top regulations.

Why do you think that it costs 12k a year for health insurance?
Government interference that's what.

Really? the profit driven insurance companies, hospitals, doctor's offices, Pharmaceutical and Med-Tech industries have no blame at all?

They are not making that much of a profit.
I suggest that you do some research on what you listed. Look up any of the companies. They have to publicy list their expenditures.

 

[Seawytch]

None of the companies are hording wealth Steelplate.
They are holding back because of the policies from government.
They have to balance their books and have to make a profit in order to hire and expand. You can't do that when you can't do the figures of government policies cost.

No they aren't. They are holding back because we aren't consuming enough. Add to that advances in technology that enable companies to use less people.

http://m.npr.org/story/156416958?url=/2012/07/07/156416958/ceo-spill-the-beans-on-hiring-hesitancy

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2011-04-05-jobs-lag-at-thriving-companies.htm

 

[Murf76]

An interesting article from BBC. I think sites like this, Brietbart, Daily Kos and the likes of Fox and MSNBC are first and foremost among the culprits. The internet has allowed us to accomplish a great deal, but the drawbacks are becoming more apparent with each passing year. Also, much of MSM has dropped it's impartiality in favor of gaining ratings with those who want news spun their way. I don't know if it will ever get better.

Well, now I see that I have to have 15 points (whatever the hell those are) to post a link to other sites. Kinda silly. Anyway the article is on BBC's web page and is called "What happened to America's community spirit?", if some one with this ponderous posting privilege is inclined to link it.

I wonder if I can say that.

It's easy enough to understand... the core of the debate isn't so much Liberalism vs. Conservativism or Democrats vs. Republicans, it's Collectivism vs. Individualism/Liberty. That's not to say that Americans don't tolerate some collectivist solutions. We do. We work in our communities and churches, tolerate a limited amount of government intervention so long as our compliance at least feels voluntary. When it stops feeling like we're volunteers and starts feeling more like we're peasants to be macromanaged by our betters in the political class.. it's a whole different ballgame.

There IS a tipping point, and we've reached it. We've got the federal government involved in nearly every aspect of our lives, which was NOT the intent of the U.S. Constitution, and we've got nearly half the country's citizens receiving checks from the other half. What that means is that our election system is no longer a fair matter of voter opinion whereby citizens vote for the best interests of the nation as a whole, but rather where they vote for their own self-interest to keep those payments coming from the national treasury. Of course, there is no National Treasury anymore, because we're running a trillion+ into further Debt every year.

This isn't simply a situation in which media is attempting to lead us all by the nose. They are, but still... the differences are very REAL. This election will determine whether we follow Europe down the road to statism and financial ruin or whether we maintain the exceptional view of governance we've had since this nation's founding.

 

[Steelplate]

It has a lot to do with the attitude of the President. I don't remember any other President calling other Americans 'the enemy'. The man just fucking sucks.

But he's funny.... not intentionally, I know... but that comment about having learned that he's supposed to work for ALL Americans made me laugh. The clue is in the job title. What a fucking doofus those borg elected.

That's a funny statement when Republicans have made it more than clear that they are only working for the top 20% of income earners. Blaming everything on the poor like the cons do is embarrassing to say the least, especially when conservative policies have only made life that much harder for those at the lower end.

Republicans have not made that clear, your inability to understand what the Republican message is has made that clear to you. You fail to understand, that the standard of living of the working class and the poor are highly dependent upon a healthy upper middle class. The people that you love to hate, provide the vast majority of jobs that enable the working class and the poor to have a better life.

I think it's also showing that our National economic health is highly dependent on the health of our working class. It reduces the need for government assistance, raises tax revenue, puts more disposable income into the hands of the largest group of consumers in our country and that's good for business and consumer alike.

Face it....Capital and Labor is a symbiotic relationship. They need each other.

 

[Erand7899]

Oh and BTW- Redistribution of wealth IS SOCIALISM.

I don't understand this. We already redistribute wealth.

Does that mean America is a socialist country? If not, at precisely what point do we become one? It would be helpful if you can provide examples of tax rates, or government spending as a percentage of GDP, something like that.

.

We become a socialist nation when it becomes politically impossible to reverse course to preclude bankrupcy. We are very close to that tipping point right now. The entitlement mindset is about 47% to 49%, currently, and we only have a little way to go before it is the majority mindset. Once that happens, it will be virtually impossible for any politician to get elected, who is not pro entitlement.

Once we pass the tipping point, it is just a question of time when we reach the point where our economy will no longer support the population. Then, we are Greece or Spain.

 

[Steelplate]

I support health care competition and lowering the cost of health care.
Not government run health care.
No one has any money because of a huge government who takes 2.2 trillion of our wealth and wants more programs and more taxes. Government Departments that takes more of our wealth in the form of, way over the top regulations.

Why do you think that it costs 12k a year for health insurance?
Government interference that's what.

Really? the profit driven insurance companies, hospitals, doctor's offices, Pharmaceutical and Med-Tech industries have no blame at all?

They are not making that much of a profit.
I suggest that you do some research on what you listed. Look up any of the companies. They have to publicy list their expenditures.

I have....Pharma, Med-Tech and Medical Providers are making a killing....Insurance Companies? Not so much...IIRC, Med-Tech was the big winner, followed by Pharma, and then Providers.

 

[Murf76]

It has a lot to do with the attitude of the President. I don't remember any other President calling other Americans 'the enemy'. The man just fucking sucks.

But he's funny.... not intentionally, I know... but that comment about having learned that he's supposed to work for ALL Americans made me laugh. The clue is in the job title. What a fucking doofus those borg elected.

That's a funny statement when Republicans have made it more than clear that they are only working for the top 20% of income earners. Blaming everything on the poor like the cons do is embarrassing to say the least, especially when conservative policies have only made life that much harder for those at the lower end.

Why don't you give us a list of reasons why 'Republicans blame everything on the poor'.


Fact is, Conservatives LOVE the poor. We think they deserve BETTER than the crappy crumbs from Democrat tables. But we know that if you make a man comfortable in his poverty, he will stay there.

 

[Erand7899]

An interesting article from BBC. I think sites like this, Brietbart, Daily Kos and the likes of Fox and MSNBC are first and foremost among the culprits. The internet has allowed us to accomplish a great deal, but the drawbacks are becoming more apparent with each passing year. Also, much of MSM has dropped it's impartiality in favor of gaining ratings with those who want news spun their way. I don't know if it will ever get better.

Well, now I see that I have to have 15 points (whatever the hell those are) to post a link to other sites. Kinda silly. Anyway the article is on BBC's web page and is called "What happened to America's community spirit?", if some one with this ponderous posting privilege is inclined to link it.

I wonder if I can say that.

Much of the problem stems from the fact that there is really nothing politicians and policy makers can do to address many of the issues facing the Nation, neither party nor political ideology has or can offer anything new.

Consequently that leaves only the wedge/hot button issues, where there are clear and distinct differences between and among the various political factions.

As far as much of MSM dropping it's ‘impartiality’ in favor of gaining ratings, ratings have always been the guiding factor with regard to all news media, not ideology. The notion of a ‘biased’ news media is therefore a myth.

The problem is that many confuse entertainment media, such as Fox ‘news’ and MSMBC, as actual journalism, which both are clearly not. Many also incorrectly perceive the news media as ‘bias’ when they report facts which conflict with political dogma.

Apparently, you are the one confused. Fox News and MSMBC both have news shows and political commentary. Most people can discern the difference.

The media is biased when they under report news that is contrary to their political biases, and over report news that supports their political biases. For instance, the lame street news failure to adequately report that the administration deliberately lied to the American people about an obvious terrorist attack. The same media that attempted to further that lie until it became completely untenable to do so.

BTW, polls show that more and more Americans have recognized those biases, and have begun to tune those news sources out.

 

[Erand7899]

That's a funny statement when Republicans have made it more than clear that they are only working for the top 20% of income earners. Blaming everything on the poor like the cons do is embarrassing to say the least, especially when conservative policies have only made life that much harder for those at the lower end.

Republicans have not made that clear, your inability to understand what the Republican message is has made that clear to you. You fail to understand, that the standard of living of the working class and the poor are highly dependent upon a healthy upper middle class. The people that you love to hate, provide the vast majority of jobs that enable the working class and the poor to have a better life.

I think it's also showing that our National economic health is highly dependent on the health of our working class. It reduces the need for government assistance, raises tax revenue, puts more disposable income into the hands of the largest group of consumers in our country and that's good for business and consumer alike.

Face it....Capital and Labor is a symbiotic relationship. They need each other.

The health of our working class is dependent upon one thing, jobs. Jobs are dependent upon a healthy upper middle class, and freedom from government over regulation and over taxation. Yes, capital and labor need each other, but labor needs capital a hell of a lot more than capital needs labor. Capital can move, labor not so much.

 

[francoHFW]

An interesting article from BBC. I think sites like this, Brietbart, Daily Kos and the likes of Fox and MSNBC are first and foremost among the culprits. The internet has allowed us to accomplish a great deal, but the drawbacks are becoming more apparent with each passing year. Also, much of MSM has dropped it's impartiality in favor of gaining ratings with those who want news spun their way. I don't know if it will ever get better.

Well, now I see that I have to have 15 points (whatever the hell those are) to post a link to other sites. Kinda silly. Anyway the article is on BBC's web page and is called "What happened to America's community spirit?", if some one with this ponderous posting privilege is inclined to link it.

I wonder if I can say that.

Much of the problem stems from the fact that there is really nothing politicians and policy makers can do to address many of the issues facing the Nation, neither party nor political ideology has or can offer anything new.

Consequently that leaves only the wedge/hot button issues, where there are clear and distinct differences between and among the various political factions.

As far as much of MSM dropping it's ‘impartiality’ in favor of gaining ratings, ratings have always been the guiding factor with regard to all news media, not ideology. The notion of a ‘biased’ news media is therefore a myth.

The problem is that many confuse entertainment media, such as Fox ‘news’ and MSMBC, as actual journalism, which both are clearly not. Many also incorrectly perceive the news media as ‘bias’ when they report facts which conflict with political dogma.

Apparently, you are the one confused. Fox News and MSMBC both have news shows and political commentary. Most people can discern the difference.

The media is biased when they under report news that is contrary to their political biases, and over report news that supports their political biases. For instance, the lame street news failure to adequately report that the administration deliberately lied to the American people about an obvious terrorist attack. The same media that attempted to further that lie until it became completely untenable to do so.

BTW, polls show that more and more Americans have recognized those biases, and have begun to tune those news sources out.

Absolute Pubcrappe, of course- no evidence they just weren't as confused as everyone else, and honest news STILL haven't figured out what exactly happened. Doesn't stop the Pub PROPAGANDA machine from brainwashing the dupes 24/7.

Perfect example of Fox etc hate spech. Bring back the Fairness Doctrine, even if only 1 minute of truth per 1/2 hour. A disgrace, dupe.