When is an embryo/fetus a human life?

I might be able to help you with this. However, I would rather approach it slowly, one step at a time, to see where we agree and maybe start to disagree.

My first question for you is, "were you conceived?"
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My opinion is that anyone who believes that abortion must be allowed for any reason, needs to lose his/her/its right to defend his/her/its life.

I am still on the fence about valid cases of necessity, like rape/incest. I have been confirmed as a Catholic for just over a year, so I have to think harder about it.


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Here's some info that hopefully will be helpful to anyone who is confused about when the life of a human begins.

From Libertarians for Life. I'm going to highlight the important parts....

Basic human embryological facts

To begin with, scientifically something very radical occurs between the processes of gametogenesis and fertilization — the change from a simple part of one human being (i.e., a sperm) and a simple part of another human being (i.e., an oocyte — usually referred to as an "ovum" or "egg"), which simply possess "human life", to a new, genetically unique, newly existing, individual, whole living human being. (an embryonic single-cell human zygote). That is, upon fertilization, parts of human beings have actually been transformed into something very different from what they were before; they have been changed into a single, whole human being. During the process of fertilization, the sperm and the oocyte cease to exist as such, and a new human being is produced.

To understand this, it should be remembered that each kind of living organism has a specific number and quality of chromosomes that are characteristic for each member of a species. (The number can vary only slightly if the organism is to survive.) For example, the characteristic number of chromosomes for a member of the human species is 46 (plus or minus, e.g., in human beings with Down's or Turner's syndromes). Every somatic (or, body) cell in a human being has this characteristic number of chromosomes. Even the early germ cells contain 46 chromosomes; it is only their most mature forms — the sex gametes, or sperms and oocytes — which will later contain only 23 chromosomes.1 Sperms and oocytes are derived from primitive germ cells in the developing fetus by means of the process known as "gametogenesis." Because each germ cell normally has 46 chromosomes, the process of "fertilization" can not take place until the total number of chromosomes in each germ are cut in half. This is necessary so that after their fusion at fertilization the characteristic number of chromosomes in a single individual member of the human species (46) can be maintained — otherwise we would end up with a monster of some sort.

To accurately see why a sperm or an oocyte are considered as only possessing human life, and not as living human beings themselves, one needs to look at the basic scientific facts involved in the processes of gametogenesis and of fertilization. It may help to keep in mind that the products of gametogenesis and fertilization are very different. The products of gametogenesis are mature sex gametes with only 23 instead of 46 chromosomes. The product of fertilization is a living human being with 46 chromosomes. Gametogenesis refers to the maturation of germ cells resulting in gametes. Fertilization refers to the initiation of a new human being.
 
The question for me is not when human life begins but when personhood does. A baby is not just a collection of cells. At some point the collection of cells becomes a person. Where that point lies is more a legal and philosophical question than a biological one.
 
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The question for me is not when human life begins but when personhood does. A baby is not just a collection of cells. At some point the collection of cells becomes a person. Where that point lies is more a political and philosophical question than a biological one.

A person is a living human being.

Even the dictionary says that:

 
So would it be "murder" to cut out a malignant tumor?
A malignant tumor is not a developing human being so it is not "murder." One has millions of more live, human cells. Also, a tumor is not necessarily a property functioning human cell.
 
Do you really not understand the difference between a skin cell that is a mere PART of a human being, and a whole, genetically unique human organism?

I'm truly astonished that people still bring up comments like yours (and a few others here) which show a total lack of understanding of basic biology.
You said:
"A single cell doing its functions is the definition of life. If that cell is human then it's human life."
So based upon your own definition here the act of killing a malignant tumor would constitute the killing of "human life" (your words).
Isn't the killing of human life basically the definition of "murder?"
So, according to your own logic here any surgery which removes any diseased or unwanted tissue from the human body is technically murder.
What is so hard to understand about your own words?
 
I spoke of human life not human being hood. That was all you and it did not go unnoticed.

Nice try though

You brought up personhood. You said: "The question for me is not when human life begins but when personhood does."

And I gave you the definition of person. That is what I believe, but it's also what the dictionary says.

So I honestly don't know what you mean by "that was all you and it did not go unnoticed."

Are you saying there's a difference between personhood and person? If that's your point, then here is the definition of personhood:

  1. the state or fact of being a person.

Which leads back to the word person, which we already went over.
 
15th post
You said:
"A single cell doing its functions is the definition of life. If that cell is human then it's human life."
So based upon your own definition here the act of killing a malignant tumor would constitute the killing of "human life" (your words).
Isn't the killing of human life basically the definition of "murder?"
So, according to your own logic here any surgery which removes any diseased or unwanted tissue from the human body is technically murder.
What is so hard to understand about your own words?

I did not say that. You're getting me mixed up with someone else.

Please use the quote function. Thanks.
 
Not the lazy ones.
They were life, now they're dead. Still, all the elements will be there for a while. If I give you those elements can you magically re-create life?
 

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