When is an embryo/fetus a human life?

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

I know you're being somewhat facetious in this statement....While I agree that Government intrusion in our lives is far too great, they don't "own" you.

As for parents "owning" the child. Children are individual human beings, and parents have the responsibility to raise those humans, teach them, provide for them, and educate them so that they become productive adults. They don't OWN them...They're not dogs, or cats for Christ sake...

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In a continually ongoing struggle, Washington's "governor" Ferguson wants to remove the rights of parents who choose the convenience of sending their children to public "schools".

GOVERNOR FERGUSON AGREES THAT “PARENTS HAVE NO RIGHTS” - Let's Go Washington

REDMOND, WA – This morning, Governor Ferguson sided with Jamie Pedersen who believes “parents have no right to know.” Ferguson has made it clear that he is in lockstep with the out-of-touch Democrats in Olympia who want to exclude parents from decisions about their kids and give the power to...

letsgowashington.com

 

[Hafar1014]

So, we can't call them "our" kids?

A fetus is not an individual it is part of the mothers body which she owns as property therefore she owns it.

 

[j-mac]

So, we can't call them "our" kids?

So, you want all figures of speech to now be literal in their interpretation?

 

[Woodznutz]

So, you want all figures of speech to now be literal in their interpretation?

Most parents treat their kids like they own them. Whyzat I wonder?

 

[j-mac]

A fetus is not an individual it is part of the mothers body which she owns as property therefore she owns it.

That's ridiculous...Using your argument, since the child is reliant on the mother, then it's part of her body therefore she has the right to terminate it...Extrapolating that further, the child is reliant on the mother after birth as well, can she kill it?

 

[schmidlap]

The arguments that the statists concoct are not going to cause most Americans to abandon their principles regarding personal freedom and submit to government womb control.

Most Americans Support Legal Abortion​

 

[Woodznutz]

That's ridiculous...Using your argument, since the child is reliant on the mother, then it's part of her body therefore she has the right to terminate it...Extrapolating that further, the child is reliant on the mother after birth as well, can she kill it?

Generally speaking, possession is ownership.

 

[Hafar1014]

That's ridiculous...Using your argument, since the child is reliant on the mother, then it's part of her body therefore she has the right to terminate it...Extrapolating that further, the child is reliant on the mother after birth as well, can she kill it?

After birth the child is not part of the mothers body therefore property doesnt exist. After birth the infant has full rights as a person.

You misstated my point its not dependency its the physical connection They are not the same. The rest of your argument fails for the same reason a false premise.

I am not opposed to abortion. I oppose any categorical approach for or against. Reasonable standards need to be created that allow and restrict. Thats a separate discussion.

 

[Woodznutz]

After birth the child is not part of the mothers body therefore property doesnt exist. After birth the infant has full rights as a person.

Tell that to kids that are bullied by other kids. Or kids that would rather not go to school. Neither has any rights or responsibilities. Generally speaking, people don't have any rights until they are considered adults. When kids suffer abuses that adults would take to court, they are told to just suck it up.

The weight of the law doesn't fall on them for criminal behavior either. Stealing cars used to be a felony, "grand theft auto". But because the offenders are so often minors it has been changed to "operating a vehicle without the owner's permission".

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

The arguments that the statists concoct are not going to cause most Americans to abandon their principles regarding personal freedom and submit to government womb control.

Most Americans Support Legal Abortion​

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"Womb control"!!



Starts with a woman making a wise decision to control her own womb by not subjecting it to the stress of tearing at it with steel instruments, often multiple times in her life, because it's doing its job.

Women CAN choose not to become pregnant until they want to use that womb for what it was designed for.

She abdicates control of her own womb and pitches a fit because someone with more brains disagrees with her "choice".






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[j-mac]

Generally speaking, possession is ownership.

What you call possession, I call responsibllity…For instance, you on things like say a lawn mower. When you want to cut grass, you fill it up with gas, pull the cord and cut your grass. There’s no feelings there. The mower doesn’t fight you about doing its task.

A child otoh, has a brain, and if you’re doing it right, has reason, and free will. ie; if you’re doing it tell the child to cut the grass and it’s raining outside, the child can make the case on why he/she shouldn’t do that at the moment you demand it. Kind of an imperfect analogy, but you get the point.

 

[Woodznutz]

What you call possession, I call responsibllity…For instance, you on things like say a lawn mower. When you want to cut grass, you fill it up with gas, pull the cord and cut your grass. There’s no feelings there. The mower doesn’t fight you about doing its task.

A child otoh, has a brain, and if you’re doing it right, has reason, and free will. ie; if you’re doing it tell the child to cut the grass and it’s raining outside, the child can make the case on why he/she shouldn’t do that at the moment you demand it. Kind of an imperfect analogy, but you get the point.

It's a nuanced thing.

 

[j-mac]

After birth the child is not part of the mothers body therefore property doesnt exist. After birth the infant has full rights as a person.

So, in your mind, the child is able to be killed right up to the moment of birth? Even pro abortion advocates disagree with that.

You misstated my point its not dependency its the physical connection They are not the same. The rest of your argument fails for the same reason a false premise.

Do you agree with a pregnant woman who is murdered, and the child dies in the act, that the murderer is charges with two counts of murder?

I am not opposed to abortion.

That’s clear

I oppose any categorical approach for or against. Reasonable standards need to be created that allow and restrict. Thats a separate discussion.

“Reasonable” is a category.

 

[Meister]

I'm not convinced that it is a human life from the moment of conception (given that it doesn't have a brain, for example), but at some point during pregnancy, I believe it qualifies as a human life.

If people are merely arguing that it is a "potential life" from the moment of conception, then preventing a potential life from coming into existence obviously isn't the same as taking a life from existence. (If that was true, then if a person only has 2 children when they have the ability to have 5 means they should be charged with 3 counts of murder, and we know that is absurd).

If a person believes in God, then life begins at the moment of conception.

 

[j-mac]

It's a nuanced thing.

Nuance in my mind is just another scapegoat to escape the wrongness of killing a defenseless human for convenience.

 

[j-mac]

If a person believes in God, then life begins at the moment of conception.

Even if they believe in science it is.

 

[Woodznutz]

Nuance in my mind is just another scapegoat to escape the wrongness of killing a defenseless human for convenience.

Ownership of your children is the nuanced thing. The issue of abortion is rationalized, not nuanced.

 

[Hafar1014]

So, in your mind, the child is able to be killed right up to the moment of birth? Even pro abortion advocates disagree with that.

Do you agree with a pregnant woman who is murdered, and the child dies in the act, that the murderer is charges with two counts of murder?

That’s clear

“Reasonable” is a category.

Categorical means 100% one side or the other.
Let me correct your errors and false assumptions.
I Believe in a time limit for abortion on demand. 2-3 months works for me. So up to time of birth no.
There are cases when an abortion is the only moral choice. Anencephaly, Tay Sacs, Phenylketonuria, when a mother has cancer and the chemo will kill the fetus when it cant be delivered early. Feel free why abortion is wrong in these cases.
When a pregnant woman is murdered the feus dies its not a matter of choice but severe negligence.

 

[Hafar1014]

If a person believes in God, then life begins at the moment of conception.

A sperm is alive so is n egg therefore life begins before conception. Its irrelevant when is fetus a person with rights

 

[schmidlap]

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"Womb control"!!



Starts with a woman making a wise decision to control her own womb by not subjecting it to the stress of tearing at it with steel instruments, often multiple times in her life, because it's doing its job.

Women CAN choose not to become pregnant until they want to use that womb for what it was designed for.

She abdicates control of her own womb and pitches a fit because someone with more brains disagrees with her "choice".






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A female can make such a personal decision in consultation with loved one and medical and spiritual advisers whom she trusts.

She does not need your impersonal politicians and bureaucrats issuing orders to her - even if they make you happy.