Zone1 What makes Christianity different from other religions?

[theHawk]

Many people of faith have an entirely different picture of God and of the Bible. Biblical guidance was not intended to guide people away from hell. Jews have never believed in hell. God and the Bible guides us away from the pitfalls so common in this life, so that we may live joyfully in the midst of knowing God's love for us, becoming the best version of self.

Isn't there a Biblical verse you feel contains good advice--especially for you and your circumstances?

You have no idea what you are talking about. The ancient Jews always believed in Sheol. Funny how people claim this religion is just “made up” to control people. Yet their belief was far different than any other made up religions. All religions have a concept of heaven, that if you are good then go to some kind of paradise. Yet their Hebrews/Israelites/Jews did not hold this belief. Even the righteous people went down into Sheol, a dark and gloomy place, barred from any escape.

Seems really odd that a made up religion would profess this is where you end up even if you are righteous.

We now know this was because no one had paid for their sins to open the way to heaven. Once Jesus died on the cross, as the true Passover lamb, the barred doors to heaven were opened for the righteous in Sheol. This is why it is said Jesus “descended into hell”, he went down into Sheol.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Many people of faith have an entirely different picture of God and of the Bible. Biblical guidance was not intended to guide people away from hell. Jews have never believed in hell. God and the Bible guides us away from the pitfalls so common in this life, so that we may live joyfully in the midst of knowing God's love for us, becoming the best version of self.

Isn't there a Biblical verse you feel contains good advice--especially for you and your circumstances?

You can find passages in almost any holy book that are good and some profound, with even touches of wisdom. You can find similar to this in books written by atheists, agnostics, and philosophers of centuries gone by, as well as today. You can find wisdom and help when you are lost and grieving or unsure in numerous self help books.

What I find very irritating is the contention that the bible somehow stands alone when it comes to moral values. Long before the OT was written many preached and wrote of the benefit and need for morals with the big ones being to not murder, steal, cheat and scheme to get what others have. to not beat and torture people, etc. On that subject, Meriweather, take a look at your OT and see that it gives all manner of rules as to not beat your slave to death and you can keep them as property while any moral person would say that is detestable. Your God could have easily outlawed slavery. Instead he was careful to say to worship him, to not wear the cloth of two animals, to keep the Sabbath holy and 613 rules for living that many then did not like at all. So, to say slavery had to stay in the bible because people then wouldn't like it being banned is a copout.

You don't need this god to have good morals. Good morals are necessary for humanity and to live a good life. Those who choose not to are a detriment to society and themselves. Some get away with murder but that doesn't mean anything other than there are psychopaths in the world and always have been. Constantine, the main person who really is responsible for Catholicism having taken over the world was a murderous evil thug. There is no evidence whatsoever he converted. He knew that if people thought there would be an ultimate pounishment after death, the Bishops and High Priest would assist him in controlling the psychos, or at least some of them.

I like you, a lot. Never take offense at what I say as it is not personal. You are like my oldest sister and older brother, still Catholics and admonishing me for not believing. They wouldn't hurt a fly and are very kind. One would hope humanity could be and can be if they knew there was no punsihment. I suggest you and many others would have the same moral values and be good people without god. There are some that wouldn't be. If Christianity keeps those kind in check, then who am I to say?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

False. Public school teachers do.

Nope. Not true.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

It’s not my “imagined” anything. I didn’t make up anything. The Bible and church formed long before me. It testifies to the truth witnessed in those times. Lefties and atheists still can’t debunk any of it.

You believe we’re all a collection of atoms having mere chemical reactions, that we have no eternal souls, that there is no God or afterlife.

Thing is, even if Christianity is all false, you still can’t show how secular humanism is superior to “made up” Christian ethics.

See my post #102

 

[Meriweather]

You have no idea what you are talking about. The ancient Jews always believed in Sheol.

Do you recall how long Jews remained in Sheol?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

You have no idea what you are talking about. The ancient Jews always believed in Sheol. Funny how people claim this religion is just “made up” to control people. Yet their belief was far different than any other made up religions. All religions have a concept of heaven, that if you are good then go to some kind of paradise. Yet their Hebrews/Israelites/Jews did not hold this belief. Even the righteous people went down into Sheol, a dark and gloomy place, barred from any escape.

Seems really odd that a made up religion would profess this is where you end up even if you are righteous.

We now know this was because no one had paid for their sins to open the way to heaven. Once Jesus died on the cross, as the true Passover lamb, the barred doors to heaven were opened for the righteous in Sheol. This is why it is said Jesus “descended into hell”, he went down into Sheol.

What proof do you have that Jesus said anything about his being hanged for sedition was to save humanity? NO ONE knows what Jesus said anyway. The people who wrote 3-9 decades after his death are not the apostles. They are unknown authors.

 

[theHawk]

What I find very irritating is the contention that the bible somehow stands alone when it comes to moral values. Long before the OT was written many preached and wrote of the benefit and need for morals with the big ones being to not murder, steal, cheat and scheme to get what others have. to not beat and torture people, etc. On that subject, Meriweather, take a look at your OT and see that it gives all manner of rules as to not beat your slave to death and you can keep them as property while any moral person would say that is detestable. Your God could have easily outlawed slavery. Instead he was careful to say to worship him, to not wear the cloth of two animals, to keep the Sabbath holy and 613 rules for living that many then did not like at all. So, to say slavery had to stay in the bible because people then wouldn't like it being banned is a copout

Yet every other culture allowed slavery. You claim it’s just self evident that slavery should be declared evil, yet it was all over the place. God allowed servitude but those servants needed to be treated with dignity and protected. Other cultures had no such beliefs. When Jews owned “slaves” they didn’t treat them like cattle and keep them in chains. They were obligated to take care of the servant and their family.

But you, as always, have to twist things and make it out to be a thousand times worse than it was.

 

[Meriweather]

You can find passages in almost any holy book that are good and some profound, with even touches of wisdom. You can find similar to this in books written by atheists, agnostics, and philosophers of centuries gone by, as well as today. You can find wisdom and help when you are lost and grieving or unsure in numerous self help books.

What I find very irritating is the contention that the bible somehow stands alone when it comes to moral values.

No argument with any of this, but I don't see it as a valid reason for denigrating the Bible.

I like you, a lot. Never take offense at what I say as it is not personal. You are like my oldest sister and older brother, still Catholics and admonishing me for not believing. They wouldn't hurt a fly and are very kind. One would hope humanity could be and can be if they knew there was no punsihment.

And I like you as well.

I suggest you and many others would have the same moral values and be good people without god. There are some that wouldn't be.

We receive many of our moral values from our parents and our peers. The difference may be is that many of us do not pursue religion for moral values, but from a sincere desire to come to know and love God. Did any of the twelve Apostles follow Jesus because they liked his morals? Has anyone made friends with you because of your morals? The connection I have with the Lord has nothing to do with morals.

What connects you with your friends? Imagine people enjoying that same connection with God, with Jesus. Can you name what it is that connects you to your closest friends?

 

[theHawk]

What proof do you have that Jesus said anything about his being hanged for sedition was to save humanity? NO ONE knows what Jesus said anyway. The people who wrote 3-9 decades after his death are not the apostles. They are unknown authors.

It was foretold in the OT that the Messiah would die before the destruction of the Second Temple. (Daniel 9:26)

Jesus told his disciples many times he was going away, and that his “sign” was that of the prophet Jonah, who was taken by a sea creature under the sea, symbolizing death, and returned on the third day.

 

[onefour1]

Because my good works cannot earn my salvation. You think they can. That's a big difference. Your belief makes less of Christ and more of you.

So, it makes you feel more righteous to label others as believing their works save them? I have already told you in no uncertain terms that I nor members of my faith believe that works save us. Yet you continue to label us as if we do. Any religious belief that feels they need to falsely cut down others is definitely not a true Christian religion. As I have shown you in the scriptures, Jesus and his apostles have taught that we should do good works. Not because they are the saving force behind salvation but because that is what good beings should be doing. Yet you want them to stop. All I can say to you is that you need to repent of your self righteousness. The Bible clearly teaches that we should be engaged in doing good works but it also teaches that we are not saved by our works lest any man should boast. God requires good works at our hands and no they do not save us. It is Jesus and Jesus alone that saves but he requires good works from us before he will save us.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

From the Book of Mormon

Mosiah 2:21
21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.

 

[norwegen]

Didn't Jesus, as God (trinity) inspire the OT? What made him change his mind?

Did you know that in the last days of Judaism, all the persecution of the converted Jews for their faith came from the Jews? And that these converted Jews believed, as Paul averred, that the Jews killed Jesus and, echoing Jesus, also their prophets? (1 Thess 2:14-15)

Read the OT and see how the writers of most of their history portrayed them: idolatrous, genocidal, warmongering, reprobate. Was "God" wrong about these portrayals of His "chosen," this treacherous bride whose sister, Israel, He had already divorced? (Jer 3:6-10).

These enemies of Jesus and his followers were sealing their fate: slaughter (Lk 19:27). These enemies were Jews.

Your idea that Jesus changed his mind is wrong and really just a non sequitur.

 

[Donald H]

While never forgetting that Jesus took on the cost/price of our sins, there is much more to his life, death, and resurrection. The Word of God took on human flesh--was fully human--not to just die for our sins. He became human to teach us the way, how to live life without sin. We see Jesus immersing himself in prayer and following the will of the Father--not because that is what only he was supposed to do--but to teach and demonstrate what each of us is to do. We are to discern and obey the will of the Father. That is the Way of Christ and is meant to be the Way of all of his followers.

The Way of Christ, the Way of salvation/redemption is following Christ's example of doing good, living in obedience, and immersing oneself in prayer and worship. In Aramaic Jesus' final words was that reminder to submit and to obey. Considering all he did for us in taking on the cost/price of our sins; enduring a crucifying death to show us exactly what obedience might entail, let's look at what our response might be.

Should it stop at "I believe you paid the price of my sins and that you are the Son of God." Or should it continue on each day of one's life to pray, to discern the will of God and obey, to do the good that Jesus would do in each event that comes our own way. The Way of Salvation and Redemption is open. We have a man showing us that one can live through the day without sin. We have a man who assured us when we do stumble and fall, turn back to him, remembering his instructions to Peter when Peter failed and ran to him: "Feed my sheep."

He did not instruct Peter, "Feed my sheep" for Peter to earn salvation but to live and proclaim in words and actions the Way of salvation.

As far as your line "that's how you rope people in".... isn't assuring people they do not have to do a thing as it's all been done and will always be done for them the more likely path to "rope people in"? We should all be proclaiming, The Way of Salvation/Redemption is open! Let's start living it! Living it means feeding the sheep, and that's not only work, it is hard work. All should embrace it.

The question still remains on why anybody would have to die for other people's sins?
That just doesn't make any sense, unless it's meant to infer that everybody owes the jesus.

In any case, it was no more than a bad weekend for the jesus, for which it's suggested that he got to be the god himself!

Who owes who?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Yet every other culture allowed slavery. You claim it’s just self evident that slavery should be declared evil, yet it was all over the place. God allowed servitude but those servants needed to be treated with dignity and protected. Other cultures had no such beliefs. When Jews owned “slaves” they didn’t treat them like cattle and keep them in chains. They were obligated to take care of the servant and their family.

But you, as always, have to twist things and make it out to be a thousand times worse than it was.

THIS, my friend, is your "moral" God. I don't give a rats ass if owning slaves at the time was the thing. Your God allegedly made laws that were just and moral, not just for that time but for all time. There would be no reason for the bible to say the below unless it was purely a human construct, which it was, and people who wanted to control others wrote the document because THEY had slacves.

Exodus 21:20–21, which states:

“If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is his property.” (NIV)

Leviticus 25:44–46, which says:

“Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. … You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life…” (NIV)

 

[Paradoxical#1]

No argument with any of this, but I don't see it as a valid reason for denigrating the Bible.


And I like you as well.

We receive many of our moral values from our parents and our peers. The difference may be is that many of us do not pursue religion for moral values, but from a sincere desire to come to know and love God. Did any of the twelve Apostles follow Jesus because they liked his morals? Has anyone made friends with you because of your morals? The connection I have with the Lord has nothing to do with morals.

What connects you with your friends? Imagine people enjoying that same connection with God, with Jesus. Can you name what it is that connects you to your closest friends?

Between you and me, I wrote a book about morals for children. There is/was no God needed.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

It was foretold in the OT that the Messiah would die before the destruction of the Second Temple. (Daniel 9:26)

Jesus told his disciples many times he was going away, and that his “sign” was that of the prophet Jonah, who was taken by a sea creature under the sea, symbolizing death, and returned on the third day.

The UNKNOWN writers just shoehorned Jesus in.

How do you know Jesus said that?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Did you know that in the last days of Judaism, all the persecution of the converted Jews for their faith came from the Jews? And that these converted Jews believed, as Paul averred, that the Jews killed Jesus and, echoing Jesus, also their prophets? (1 Thess 2:14-15)

Read the OT and see how the writers of most of their history portrayed them: idolatrous, genocidal, warmongering, reprobate. Was "God" wrong about these portrayals of His "chosen," this treacherous bride whose sister, Israel, He had already divorced? (Jer 3:6-10).

These enemies of Jesus and his followers were sealing their fate: slaughter (Lk 19:27). These enemies were Jews.

Your idea that Jesus changed his mind is wrong and really just a non sequitur.

God chose Jews wrongly then? He screwed up?

 

[norwegen]

God chose Jews wrongly then? He screwed up?

You understand as much as fundamentalist and evangelical Christians do.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Judaism - so you think you want to become a Jew? Meh. Why would you? If you insist, though, we will will make it hard for you and not many succeed

Christianity - have you heard the good news?

Islam -- convert or die!!

 

[onefour1]

The question still remains on why anybody would have to die for other people's sins?
That just doesn't make any sense, unless it's meant to infer that everybody owes the jesus.

In any case, it was no more than a bad weekend for the jesus, for which it's suggested that he got to be the god himself!

Who owes who?

Let me attempt to explain this most critical doctrine of Jesus Christ to you from the standpoint of a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is a part of mankind that is self-existing and was never created or made and neither indeed can be. This self-existing part of mankind is known as his intelligence. Even though the intelligence of mankind is self-existing, it is less than perfect. God has taken some of the intelligences that have always existed and through the process of procreation, he has given them spirit bodies. So before we were ever born into this mortal life, we existed as the spirit children of God. Our spirits are the literal offspring of God the Eternal Father in Heaven. As the spirit children of God, we all sought to become like our Father in Heaven. God the Father also wanted us to progress to become like him. Since our intelligences were self-existing and could not be created or made, God could not create us to be perfect. God needed another way for us to progress to perfection. We all needed to learn to progress by learning the difference between good and evil and needed to learn to choose good over evil and be converted to goodness. So God sends his spirit children to a temporary fallen world to learn good and evil and learn to choose good over evil. God also understands that it is essential for each one of us to have free will to choose of our own selves good over evil. Only in this way does one truly become a good being in and of oneself. God also sends messenger to this world to teach us that he exists and that we need to follow his counsel. God places a veil over our minds so that our premortal life memory does not influence our decisions here on this fallen earth.

God knows that we, as imperfect self-existing beings, would make mistakes in life and would all fall short of living a perfect life. The kingdom of heaven is a place where those who learn to follow good over evil and overcome evil will be granted to live in the eternities. All those who do not learn to overcome evil will have to go to a lesser kingdom of glory. Knowing that we would make mistakes as we sojourn on this earth God needed a means of being able to forgive us of our transgressions and allow us a means of obtaining forgiveness of past sins as we repent of them and change into being better beings. However, once a person has broken a law they have fallen short of the glory of the kingdom of heaven and unless they receive forgiveness, not one soul could be saved. This where the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ comes in. God sends a sinless soul to this earth who through his example shows mankind how to live a sinless life. He then suffers for all the sins of the world and is put to death for the sins of all mankind. At this point one is inclined to ask, how is it just that one man suffer for the sins of another? God the Father is a just and holy God. How is it just that Jesus suffer for the sins of all mankind? Shouldn't each man and woman have to suffer for their own sins? To understand this we need to understand that God is a God of justice. Jesus, who came to this world, lived a perfect life. He didn't even commit one single sin. For Jesus to suffer at all was unjust. But Jesus, who was without sin, suffered more than any who has ever lived on this earth. He suffered for each every sin that every one of the billions or trillions of us who have ever lived on this earth have committed. He was a lamb with blemish or spot who was the purest of all who have ever lived and was sinless suffered the greatest of injustices imaginable. He never deserved a slap on the hand let alone to suffer for the trillions of souls who have ever lived. Would not God our Eternal Father in Heaven owe the Christ a just recompense for the injustice of all the suffering, pain, anguish, misery, and death that he suffered? Jesus' suffering caused him to bleed from every pore of his body. So great was the pain that only a god could live through such immense suffering and pain. This is why Jesus prayed, "take this cup from me, nevertheless, not my will but thy will be done". God the Father granted Jesus a recompense for his unjust suffering and pain. His recompense was that he won the right to forgive the sins of those who would repent and forsake their sins. The injustice that he bore offsets the justice of our punishment for sin. It is Jesus' recompense for the injustice he bore that gives each and everyone of us a chance to be forgiven. Jesus' recompense was a just recompense. He is being recompensed not only for the injustice of his suffering but to the extent that he suffered. He suffered the pain and suffering for each and every one of our individual sins and this for trillions who have and will live upon this earth. Is it not just that he deserve the recompense? Did not our Lord and Savior deserve his recompense? In my mind it is a resounding YES! In my mind it was the just for the unjust: The injustice of Christ's sufferings offset the just sufferings of our sins if we will just repent and turn unto him.

1 Peter 3:18
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[Paradoxical#1]

You understand as much as fundamentalist and evangelical Christians do.

What do you mean by that? The Hews are Gods chosen tribe.