What is the Deep State?

[gipper]

What's shocking about the deep state is just how arrogant they are.

Yes and it is way past the time they were removed.

 

[Diver Diva]

The "Deep State" are the un-elected bureaucrats and government agencies that are accountable to no one and act in their own self interest and not the interests of the American people.

 

[JWBooth]

There is a cadre of people who work behind the scenes to preserve us and our way of life through any and all administrations. This "deep state" nonsense is an unpatriotic effort to discredit the fine work of these most loyal of Americans.

I do not identify myself as a republican, nor have I ever identified with any political party. But look at how Robert Mueller, a republican, has been treated, a man who I perceive to have lived an honorable life and has done the best that he can for our republic, but catches shit for not towing the party line. He must be "deep state," which means those who operate in the background to support our republic.

 

[Dragonlady]

There is a cadre of people who work behind the scenes to preserve us and our way of life through any and all administrations. This "deep state" nonsense is an unpatriotic effort to discredit the fine work of these most loyal of Americans.

I do not identify myself as a republican, nor have I ever identified with any political party. But look at how Robert Mueller, a republican, has been treated, a man who I perceive to have lived an honorable life and has done the best that he can for our republic, but catches shit for not towing the party line. He must be "deep state," which means those who operate in the background to support our republic.

Most absurd.

The idea that many of your senior representatives take their oath to the Constitution seriously is "most absurd" to you, but the idea of a vast conspiracy controlling your life, is not.

THIS is why you're in the mess you're in. Conservatives will believe any bullshit they're told as long as is maligns liberals.

I malign nearly all of them, cupcake.

If the Mule demonstrated anything, it's what I've been saying since the mid 1990s: there's there's zero difference of substance between the remocrats and depublicans....You can exchange the names, the faces, and the party labels, and none of it adds up to a fart in the breeze.

But that's simply not true. Republicans are actively undermining the American economy, impoverishing the working the middle class, to enrich the the top 10%. Since Ronald Reagan's original tax cuts, wealth has flowed slowly by inexorably to the wealthiest in the nation.

The working classes are now dependant on government handouts to provide for their families - something that hasn't happened since the days of the Robber Barons. Wages for the executive and management classes have gone up, in real terms, by over 300% since 1980. For the working classes, they've lost ground.

Reagan promoted the idea that when the workers got rid of the unions, they'd get a big raise, because they'd be rewarded on the basis of their efforts, not the union contract. That didn't happen. There were no raises after the unions were gone. Republicans are actively blocking legislation which would provide any sort of income increases to the working class.

Since 1980, corporate America has absorbed increases in the costs of rent/real estate, materials, supplies, construction, transportation, fuel, utilties, and benefits, without complaint. But every time someone suggests that their labour costs need to increase, they scream about costing jobs. And then the offshoring started, and workers not only lost their jobs, but the ones that were left paid even less than they were making before.

Democrats could have done a lot better than they have, but at least they try to do something about poverty, education, and healthcare, other than privatizing everything and letting the DeVos Family educate your children.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I find it rather instructive that many on the Left dispute that it even exists. They think this way because the DNCMSM has told them it doesn’t exist, which is most convenient for their cause. Adherents of the MSM apparently can’t see the transparent effort to deceive them. It is not only instructive of the success of the DNCMSM to deceive some Americans for the benefit of their bosses, it is also rather amusing that some Americans can’t see the elephant in the room. They must be blind on purpose.

Doug Casey spells it out...please read the entire column.

Doug Casey: The Deep State Is the Source of Our Economic Problems

Who Is Part of the Deep State?

The American Deep State is a real, but informal, structure that has arisen to not just profit from, but control, the State.

The Deep State has a life of its own, like the government itself. It’s composed of top-echelon employees of a dozen Praetorian agencies, like the FBI, CIA, and NSA… top generals, admirals, and other military operatives… long-term congressmen and senators… and directors of important regulatory agencies.

But the Deep State is much broader than just the government. It includes the heads of major corporations, all of whom are heavily involved in selling to the State and enabling it. That absolutely includes Silicon Valley, although those guys at least have a sense of humor, evidenced by their “Don’t Be Evil” motto. It also includes all the top people in the Fed, and the heads of all the major banks, brokers, and insurers. Add the presidents and many professors at top universities, which act as Deep State recruiting centers… all the top media figures, of course… and many regulars at things like Bohemian Grove and the Council on Foreign Relations. They epitomize the status quo, held together by power, money, and propaganda.

Altogether, I’ll guess these people number a thousand or so. You might analogize the structure of the Deep State with a huge pack of dogs. The people I’ve just described are the top dogs.

But there are hundreds of thousands more who aren’t at the nexus, but who directly depend on them, have considerable clout, and support the Deep State because it supports them. This includes many of the wealthy, especially those who got that way thanks to their State connections… the 1.5 million people who have top secret clearances (that’s a shocking, but accurate, number)… plus top players in organized crime, especially the illegal drug business, little of which would exist without the State. Plus mid-level types in the police and military, corporations, and non-governmental organizations.

These are what you might call the running dogs.

https://www.caseyresearch.com/artic...state-is-the-source-of-our-economic-problems/

The closet "deep state" in my memory was the meetings held by Grover Norquist and the Americans for tax reform; Norquist, who infamously stated, "I'm not in favor of abolishing the government. I just want to shrink it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub."

It's clear that Trump and his cleaning up of the swamp was in consort with Norquistism, their goal was the destruction of and the privatizing of the federal bureaucracy (for profit, of course), destroying democracy in America and establishing a plutocratic republic.

In fact it is done, and unless the good people of MI, WI and PA understand this, as well as the good people all across our nation, our children will experience how power corrupts, and how absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[gipper]

There is a cadre of people who work behind the scenes to preserve us and our way of life through any and all administrations. This "deep state" nonsense is an unpatriotic effort to discredit the fine work of these most loyal of Americans.

I do not identify myself as a republican, nor have I ever identified with any political party. But look at how Robert Mueller, a republican, has been treated, a man who I perceive to have lived an honorable life and has done the best that he can for our republic, but catches shit for not towing the party line. He must be "deep state," which means those who operate in the background to support our republic.

Most absurd.

The idea that many of your senior representatives take their oath to the Constitution seriously is "most absurd" to you, but the idea of a vast conspiracy controlling your life, is not.

THIS is why you're in the mess you're in. Conservatives will believe any bullshit they're told as long as is maligns liberals.

I malign nearly all of them, cupcake.

If the Mule demonstrated anything, it's what I've been saying since the mid 1990s: there's there's zero difference of substance between the remocrats and depublicans....You can exchange the names, the faces, and the party labels, and none of it adds up to a fart in the breeze.

But that's simply not true. Republicans are actively undermining the American economy, impoverishing the working the middle class, to enrich the the top 10%. Since Ronald Reagan's original tax cuts, wealth has flowed slowly by inexorably to the wealthiest in the nation.

The working classes are now dependant on government handouts to provide for their families - something that hasn't happened since the days of the Robber Barons. Wages for the executive and management classes have gone up, in real terms, by over 300% since 1980. For the working classes, they've lost ground.

Reagan promoted the idea that when the workers got rid of the unions, they'd get a big raise, because they'd be rewarded on the basis of their efforts, not the union contract. That didn't happen. There were no raises after the unions were gone. Republicans are actively blocking legislation which would provide any sort of income increases to the working class.

Since 1980, corporate America has absorbed increases in the costs of rent/real estate, materials, supplies, construction, transportation, fuel, utilties, and benefits, without complaint. But every time someone suggests that their labour costs need to increase, they scream about costing jobs. And then the offshoring started, and workers not only lost their jobs, but the ones that were left paid even less than they were making before.

Democrats could have done a lot better than they have, but at least they try to do something about poverty, education, and healthcare, other than privatizing everything and letting the DeVos Family educate your children.

Too funny. The hits just keep on coming.

We just finished 8 years of corporatist rule under Big Ears. Had the D party had it’s way, SHE would be potus and corporatism would be supercharged.

Partisans just can’t think.

 

[Lysistrata]

There is a cadre of people who work behind the scenes to preserve us and our way of life through any and all administrations. This "deep state" nonsense is an unpatriotic effort to discredit the fine work of these most loyal of Americans.

I do not identify myself as a republican, nor have I ever identified with any political party. But look at how Robert Mueller, a republican, has been treated, a man who I perceive to have lived an honorable life and has done the best that he can for our republic, but catches shit for not towing the party line. He must be "deep state," which means those who operate in the background to support our republic.

I am decidedly NOT a sycophant. Neither is Mueller. I respect him because he is not a sycophant. Neither of us would be a slave to trump/pence. Some people have pride.

Stupid cartoons do not make your point.

 

[22lcidw]

There is a cadre of people who work behind the scenes to preserve us and our way of life through any and all administrations. This "deep state" nonsense is an unpatriotic effort to discredit the fine work of these most loyal of Americans.

I do not identify myself as a republican, nor have I ever identified with any political party. But look at how Robert Mueller, a republican, has been treated, a man who I perceive to have lived an honorable life and has done the best that he can for our republic, but catches shit for not towing the party line. He must be "deep state," which means those who operate in the background to support our republic.

I am decidedly NOT a sycophant. Neither is Mueller. I respect him because he is not a sycophant. Neither of us would be a slave to trump/pence. Some people have pride.

Stupid cartoons do not make your point.

Its like the Harriet Tubman fable. Made up to give a crumb to people. Most likely if any truth to it she walked a couple of people under a train trustle and they split up. We are destroying people from the past left and right. Changing what happened also. So I choose to not believe Harriet Tubman was real. You spew the same talk. So you would agree with me.

 

[SmokeALib]

Deep state is the condition of Buttigiegs asshole during a romantic interlude.

 

[JWBooth]

There is a cadre of people who work behind the scenes to preserve us and our way of life through any and all administrations. This "deep state" nonsense is an unpatriotic effort to discredit the fine work of these most loyal of Americans.

I do not identify myself as a republican, nor have I ever identified with any political party. But look at how Robert Mueller, a republican, has been treated, a man who I perceive to have lived an honorable life and has done the best that he can for our republic, but catches shit for not towing the party line. He must be "deep state," which means those who operate in the background to support our republic.

I am decidedly NOT a sycophant. Neither is Mueller. I respect him because he is not a sycophant. Neither of us would be a slave to trump/pence. Some people have pride.

Stupid cartoons do not make your point.

You prefer lickspittle instead?

 

[the other mike]

I find it rather instructive that many on the Left dispute that it even exists. They think this way because the DNCMSM has told them it doesn’t exist, which is most convenient for their cause. Adherents of the MSM apparently can’t see the transparent effort to deceive them. It is not only instructive of the success of the DNCMSM to deceive some Americans for the benefit of their bosses, it is also rather amusing that some Americans can’t see the elephant in the room. They must be blind on purpose.

Doug Casey spells it out...please read the entire column.

Doug Casey: The Deep State Is the Source of Our Economic Problems

Who Is Part of the Deep State?

The American Deep State is a real, but informal, structure that has arisen to not just profit from, but control, the State.

The Deep State has a life of its own, like the government itself. It’s composed of top-echelon employees of a dozen Praetorian agencies, like the FBI, CIA, and NSA… top generals, admirals, and other military operatives… long-term congressmen and senators… and directors of important regulatory agencies.

But the Deep State is much broader than just the government. It includes the heads of major corporations, all of whom are heavily involved in selling to the State and enabling it. That absolutely includes Silicon Valley, although those guys at least have a sense of humor, evidenced by their “Don’t Be Evil” motto. It also includes all the top people in the Fed, and the heads of all the major banks, brokers, and insurers. Add the presidents and many professors at top universities, which act as Deep State recruiting centers… all the top media figures, of course… and many regulars at things like Bohemian Grove and the Council on Foreign Relations. They epitomize the status quo, held together by power, money, and propaganda.

Altogether, I’ll guess these people number a thousand or so. You might analogize the structure of the Deep State with a huge pack of dogs. The people I’ve just described are the top dogs.

But there are hundreds of thousands more who aren’t at the nexus, but who directly depend on them, have considerable clout, and support the Deep State because it supports them. This includes many of the wealthy, especially those who got that way thanks to their State connections… the 1.5 million people who have top secret clearances (that’s a shocking, but accurate, number)… plus top players in organized crime, especially the illegal drug business, little of which would exist without the State. Plus mid-level types in the police and military, corporations, and non-governmental organizations.

These are what you might call the running dogs.

https://www.caseyresearch.com/artic...state-is-the-source-of-our-economic-problems/

I call it the shadow government operating behind the deep state.

 

[badger2]

Casey is wrong from the start. In Casey's text (post #1), we can already detect the range of education that dismisses the pathology while at the same time chastises those who are not as clued up, even before digging deeper:

'....A key takeaway, and I emphasize that because I expect it to otherwise bounce off the programmed psyches of most people, is that the very idea of the state itself is poisonous, evil, and intrinsically destructive, But, like so many bad ideas, people have come to assume it's part of the cosmic firmament, when it's really just a monstrous scam.

And Socrates thought that the State was his daddy.

'The State is fundamentally terrorist....In spite of certain State monopolies and their authority in sustaining political desire to produce the object of "common love" which tends toward lack, a permanent heresy breaks up the political enterprise from inside civil society. Political desire strives to house all the antagonistic, economic and social forces under a common myth, regardless of the cost for achieving that end.

Hence the psychotic relates to the signifier....She/he cannot believe the common myth with its background of violence, nor can s/he trust the signifier of the Father as a warrant of good faith in the use of that violence.....Insofar as the State formulates the machinery of the political enterprise, it is an apparatus of terror. That basic aspect of State terrorism is hidden by the discourse and procedures of political affairs, but any attempt to jeopardize or even challenge the structure of the State or its monopoly of violence brings out instantly the first steps of State-sponsored terrorism.

We will favor the hypothesis that the political venture has a hidden purpose linked to the repression of any investigation of the foundation. It is the reason why I suggest that the analyst in politics acts as a heretic does in the field of religion.'
(Apollon W, A Lasting Heresy, in Jacques Lacan: Politics Aesthetics)

 

[rightwinger]

Every career government employee swears an oath to uphold the Constitution
Same oath the military and the President takes

Nobody said anything about unenforceable oaths....Your paper promises and empty rituals are meaningless.

Not to 2.5 million federal employees

They are loyal to the government. They are the government

 

[rightwinger]

What's shocking about the deep state is just how arrogant they are.

They are?

Then why can’t we see them?

 

[rightwinger]

The "Deep State" are the un-elected bureaucrats and government agencies that are accountable to no one and act in their own self interest and not the interests of the American people.

When they worked for a month without pay because of Trumps..... I want a wall temper tantrum

Were they the Deep State?

 

[rightwinger]

There is a cadre of people who work behind the scenes to preserve us and our way of life through any and all administrations. This "deep state" nonsense is an unpatriotic effort to discredit the fine work of these most loyal of Americans.

I do not identify myself as a republican, nor have I ever identified with any political party. But look at how Robert Mueller, a republican, has been treated, a man who I perceive to have lived an honorable life and has done the best that he can for our republic, but catches shit for not towing the party line. He must be "deep state," which means those who operate in the background to support our republic.

Most absurd.

The idea that many of your senior representatives take their oath to the Constitution seriously is "most absurd" to you, but the idea of a vast conspiracy controlling your life, is not.

THIS is why you're in the mess you're in. Conservatives will believe any bullshit they're told as long as is maligns liberals.

I malign nearly all of them, cupcake.

If the Mule demonstrated anything, it's what I've been saying since the mid 1990s: there's there's zero difference of substance between the remocrats and depublicans....You can exchange the names, the faces, and the party labels, and none of it adds up to a fart in the breeze.

But that's simply not true. Republicans are actively undermining the American economy, impoverishing the working the middle class, to enrich the the top 10%. Since Ronald Reagan's original tax cuts, wealth has flowed slowly by inexorably to the wealthiest in the nation.

The working classes are now dependant on government handouts to provide for their families - something that hasn't happened since the days of the Robber Barons. Wages for the executive and management classes have gone up, in real terms, by over 300% since 1980. For the working classes, they've lost ground.

Reagan promoted the idea that when the workers got rid of the unions, they'd get a big raise, because they'd be rewarded on the basis of their efforts, not the union contract. That didn't happen. There were no raises after the unions were gone. Republicans are actively blocking legislation which would provide any sort of income increases to the working class.

Since 1980, corporate America has absorbed increases in the costs of rent/real estate, materials, supplies, construction, transportation, fuel, utilties, and benefits, without complaint. But every time someone suggests that their labour costs need to increase, they scream about costing jobs. And then the offshoring started, and workers not only lost their jobs, but the ones that were left paid even less than they were making before.

Democrats could have done a lot better than they have, but at least they try to do something about poverty, education, and healthcare, other than privatizing everything and letting the DeVos Family educate your children.

Too funny. The hits just keep on coming.

We just finished 8 years of corporatist rule under Big Ears. Had the D party had it’s way, SHE would be potus and corporatism would be supercharged.

Partisans just can’t think.

Was there a Deep State under the Great Obama?

 

[badger2]

For reference, there is

Deep State in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_the_United States

Wiki says that the term was coined around 1871 in Turkey, which automatically link to Flynn and his suspicions about Gulen in the United States. Bill Clinton visited Stroudsburg High School, not far from the Gulen compound.

Jessop: The State: Past, Present, and Future

15 Mar 2017 Friedman's Weekly
The Deep State | Geopolitical Futures

 

[Camp]

Everyone knows the Deep State was organized and is controlled by ancient aliens.

 

[Oddball]

There is a cadre of people who work behind the scenes to preserve us and our way of life through any and all administrations. This "deep state" nonsense is an unpatriotic effort to discredit the fine work of these most loyal of Americans.

I do not identify myself as a republican, nor have I ever identified with any political party. But look at how Robert Mueller, a republican, has been treated, a man who I perceive to have lived an honorable life and has done the best that he can for our republic, but catches shit for not towing the party line. He must be "deep state," which means those who operate in the background to support our republic.

I am decidedly NOT a sycophant. Neither is Mueller. I respect him because he is not a sycophant. Neither of us would be a slave to trump/pence. Some people have pride.

Stupid cartoons do not make your point.

The deep state stooge who let innocent men rot in prison to protect a violent felonious snitch is your big hero.

Yeah, you're a bootlicking sycophant alright.

 

[Dragonlady]

Casey is wrong from the start. In Casey's text (post #1), we can already detect the range of education that dismisses the pathology while at the same time chastises those who are not as clued up, even before digging deeper:

'....A key takeaway, and I emphasize that because I expect it to otherwise bounce off the programmed psyches of most people, is that the very idea of the state itself is poisonous, evil, and intrinsically destructive, But, like so many bad ideas, people have come to assume it's part of the cosmic firmament, when it's really just a monstrous scam.

And Socrates thought that the State was his daddy.

'The State is fundamentally terrorist....In spite of certain State monopolies and their authority in sustaining political desire to produce the object of "common love" which tends toward lack, a permanent heresy breaks up the political enterprise from inside civil society. Political desire strives to house all the antagonistic, economic and social forces under a common myth, regardless of the cost for achieving that end.

Hence the psychotic relates to the signifier....She/he cannot believe the common myth with its background of violence, nor can s/he trust the signifier of the Father as a warrant of good faith in the use of that violence.....Insofar as the State formulates the machinery of the political enterprise, it is an apparatus of terror. That basic aspect of State terrorism is hidden by the discourse and procedures of political affairs, but any attempt to jeopardize or even challenge the structure of the State or its monopoly of violence brings out instantly the first steps of State-sponsored terrorism.

We will favor the hypothesis that the political venture has a hidden purpose linked to the repression of any investigation of the foundation. It is the reason why I suggest that the analyst in politics acts as a heretic does in the field of religion.'
(Apollon W, A Lasting Heresy, in Jacques Lacan: Politics Aesthetics)

Where your word salad theories break down is that you assume that the "State" is a living breathing thing unto itself, instead of the human product of years of mismanagement by both parties, but for entirely different reasons.

Republicans have portrayed non-whites and the poor as "lazy" and "selfish" and looking for "free stuff", when in reality, Republican policies have driven the value of their labour down to the point that without "free stuff", neither the working poor nor their families could survive.

Increasing wages for workers to even $15 per hour will bring about the downfall of the working man and woman across the country, if we listen to Republicans, but if we look at the jurisdictions where this has actually been done, these areas are thriving.

Working families comprise nearly half of the population of the United States. Imagine if half the families in the United States had even $100 a week extra to spend. Based on a 40 hour week, that amounts to $2.50 an hour more. That would give them $400 a month more to spend. They wouldn't need food stamps. Half of the people on food stamps are working. Raise the minimum wage by $100 a week, and you could wipe out half the federal taxes going to food stamps. And when you remove 20 million people from the food stamp roles, how many government jobs will be made redundent by the reduction in the program?

If you give working families another $100 per week, they could start making more consumer purchases, which would, in turn create more jobs for manufacturers, and for local service providers - getting haircuts, buying furniture, appliances, sporting goods, and attending events in their communities. It would encourage small businesses providing these services to open in poorer districts because people would have more income to spend.

I recently went through a two year period after my divorce, where my income did not meet my expenses, until I was able to disentangle my finances from those of my ex. I went nowhere and did nothing, because every month, my basic expenses exceeded my guaranteed income by $300. So every month I had to come up with an extra $300, or go into debt for it.

During this time, I did not go out to dinners, movies, lunches, or anywhere I had to spend money. I got a $20 haircut once every 6 months. When things broke down, wore out or fell apart, I did without unless I couldn't do without it, in which case see paragraph above. During this time, my TV died, my computer crashed and burned, and until a friend gave me a tablet to use, my iPhone was the only electronics and entertainment I had. I had to use the computer at the library to manage my online website. The first of the settlement money, after paying off my line of credit, was spent on a new laptop and TV, and repairing or replacing everything that I had done without over the preceeding two years. My monthly pension income increased by 50%, which not only covered the shortfall in my budget, left enough that I can now travel, something that would have been impossible before. The back payments cleared my line of credit, paid off my debts, and gave me a nice cushion of savings.

There's a lot of pent up consumer demand in the US economy. Enough to drive that "job creation on steriods" Trump promised. But it's not going to happen as long as 40% of full time workers don't make enough money to put a roof over their heads or feed their families without government assistance. It shouldn't be like this. Working people should have shared in the increased US prosperity of the last 4 decades, but all of those benefits, along with the wealth of the working and middle class, has gone to the top, and that's on the Reagan tax code and the destruction of the union movement.

As for me, Wednesday, I went out to lunch with friends. Today as well. Last weekend I attended the local summer festival and went to a blues concert, dinner with friends on Saturay. I had wanted to go out with friends to watch the Raptors win the championship at their favourite restaurant, but didn't feel up to making the trip into Toronto for it. The point is two years ago, I wouldn't have had the money to do any of this. Today I can, and all of these things contribute to the local economy.