What is the best healthcare solution?

[auditor0007]

my question is completely valid, what if you can not get insurance for any price. i.e being denied coverage for a pre-existing condition, or being too old, or too poor?

Then that's life. Sorry about your bad luck. Try to find a doctor who will take CASH, and cut a deal with him. Otherwise; such is life.

great, so when you're dying and a doctor / hospital has the ability to save you, but you cant afford to pay you get to die.

glad see the value of a human life subservient to the almighty dollar.

The best part is that people like this will go as far as to agree with insurance companies doing everything they can to avoid covering those who are a higher risk, just so it keeps their costs down.

 

[auditor0007]

how is personal responsibility possible if you are denied access to care by an insurance provider or heath care provider?

Personal Responsibility has nothing to do with health insurance. It's a matter of you going out and paying for things yourself, or at least paying for your own insurance, which you will negotiate the costs and coverages of.

I had health insurance in Colorado. It was a private plan since I am self-employed. Due to personal reasons, I had to move to Ohio. Because I had a pre-existing condition, I was denied coverage in Ohio, even by the same company that insured me in Colorado. I was with Anthem, and while Anthem of Colorado and Anthem Ohio are separate companies, they share the same parent company, Wellpointe.

But I can see how I such an irresponsible person since I didn't continue to live in Colorado where I could have kept my health insurance. I was personally responsible, and the insurance companies fucked me in the ass. When it comes to my situation, and many others like me, it has nothing to do with personal responsibility. It has to do with a system that is stacked against anyone who may become ill and has zip to do with personal responsibility. People like you live in a fantasy world where every problem has a simple minded solution. Unfortunately, in the real world, those simple minded solutions don't work very often.

 

[auditor0007]

Then that's life. Sorry about your bad luck. Try to find a doctor who will take CASH, and cut a deal with him. Otherwise; such is life.

great, so when you're dying and a doctor / hospital has the ability to save you, but you cant afford to pay you get to die.

glad see the value of a human life subservient to the almighty dollar.

That doesn't happen.

What will happen is the hospital will get what they can from you and eat the rest and pass the difference on to everyone else in terms of higher costs.

There are two problems with that. First of all, you may or may not get the treatment you need. If you need a transplant of some kind, you will not get it unless you can come up with a hefty down payment, and usually they want the entire amount up front in case you die. Secondly, if you are treated and the cost runs very high, you are personally responsible for the cost. This is how so many people end up filing for bankruptcy due to medical bills. In the end, everybody loses.

 

[auditor0007]

It is your responsibility to attempt to prepare for as many potentials as possible. I just explained my preparation above.

Considering that the median income for this country is under 50K, how on earth do you expect people to stash hundreds of thousands aside for a surprise cancer diagnosis, broken hip, stroke etc... - let alone retire without any other income? When my grandmother retired in the 80's after working for 50 years, she had a pension that paid $108 a month and got about $600 from SS. Luckily, her house was paid for (which we had to sell to get her into a nursing home, as she developed ALS and Alzheimers and my mother was physically unable to care for her anymore). Her nursing home bill was $4,000 a month.

Just HOW do you expect the average American who is struggling - hell 40% of Americans hold NO WEALTH AT ALL - to do this? Please enlighten me.

It's simple; we should shoot them and put them out of their misery so we don't have to pay for them. It's amazing to me how so many of these people are adamantly against abortion, but if you are old and sick, you just become a cost to society and should be left to die if you can't afford to pay for your own care.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Give us your ideas and proof they work

We turn them into a resource that benefits there communities, as well as reduces there numbers.

 

[auditor0007]

We must have a public option. I propose a not-for-profit co-op that anyone that is a US citizen can join. I figure you could pay in @ $20-$50 per month to get basic care. If you wanted more coverage, and can afford it, you can buy a private policy. Think if we had 40 million Americans in the pool paying $50 a month, I think it would work beautifully - as it would take away the need for workplace insurance and would cost a lot less (for you AND your company). The best part is that you would never again have to send a dime to a parasitic private insurer if you didn't want to. I think Germany has something along these lines and it seems to work really well.

Look, I do support a public option, but you have to be realistic about it. $50 per month doesn't pay for jack shit. If you are going to support a public option or even a one-payer system, you have to understand that costs are not going to be cut in half. They may be reduced some, but healthcare costs a lot of money. While I don't have a problem with the wealthy subsidizing lower income workers when it comes to health insurance or a healthcare system, even the lower income workers need to pay a substantial portion of their income towards their own care. If you don't allow for some personal responsibility, then I can understand others having a beef with footing the entire bill.

I am one of those who took advantage of the new high risk pool that has been made available until 2014 through the healthcare legislation. I am not currently making a great deal of money, but I still am able to afford the $400 per month premium and my out of pocket costs, while also covering my two boys. In total, I now spend close to $600 per month for health insurance, and in a normal year, I have an additional $1000 to 2000 in other medical bills that fall under my deductible. And on top of that, I also pay into Medicare through payroll taxes, which bring my total healthcare spending to $10,000 per year.

If you are going to talk about making real changes, you have to be realistic. There are many ways we can reduce costs, but not to the point where $50 per month will buy you anything.

If you're going to argue for affordable care for everyone, then you need to

 

[auditor0007]

Personal Responsibility has nothing to do with health insurance. It's a matter of you going out and paying for things yourself, or at least paying for your own insurance, which you will negotiate the costs and coverages of.

my question is completely valid, what if you can not get insurance for any price. i.e being denied coverage for a pre-existing condition, or being too old, or too poor?

Why in the hell would they cover a pre-existing condition. Insurance is a business, not a charity. Why would they want to sell you a policy that cost's say $100 a month and have to pay out $1,000 a month on your medical costs? Go wreck your car and then try to buy car insurance and turn in a claim for the damage and see what happens.

Bringing us to the premise that healthcare should not be handled by insurance companies. Everyone eventually gets sick and dies. Some get sick for a very long time before they die. Some get sick and can be cured so that their lives may be extended. Insurance companies don't want to insure sick people. We get that. But now we are talking about having insurance companies cover everyone until they die? They don't want to insure sick people, so why would they want to insure old people? The only people they want to cover are healthy young people. Health insurance is not like auto, life, or homeowners insurance. The entire concept was a bad one to begin with.

 

[auditor0007]

Insurance rates and medical costs are basically going to be unaffordable soon to most of the middle class.
I say get your medical care and pay a very small payment on it per month. SO if you owe $25,000 for a hospital visit, pay $35 a month and if you dont get it paid off before you pass on then so be it. Pay what you can, when you can. But dont go broke or struggle because of health care costs. To heck with that.

You are ignoring the fact that in the end, somebody has to pay the cost.

 

[auditor0007]

As a small business man for 30 years I can inform everyone anywhere that the insurance model is not an effective way to treat health. It is an excellent way to treat disease care as 60% of ALL health care dollars treat disease care-4% of the population.
Don't you people research anything? Health care, under this system so many want to keep, now costs us 18% of GDP and is growing at 7 times the inflation rate yearly. It was 7% in 1968.
At this rate it will be 33% in 25 years. Wake up. This system is UNSUSTAINABLE as it stands.
Group health insurance plans have ruined health care in America as that model, where a third party and not the consumer pays the bill, utilizes little or NO free market forces in their pricing.
Part of the Obama plan, the exchanges, makes sense but the insurance market fights it because it would force them to compete.
Believe me, as an owner of 3 corporations, this system is fucked and it has little or nothing to do with government. It has to do with blank check group health insurance plans that do not use supply and demand as their pricing.
If we do not change this system yesterday we will be a third world country soon.

Employer based insurance is the biggest part of the problem. Get health insurance and healthcare out of the hands of the employers, and things would change fast. I completely agree that health insurance should only be catastrophic insurance or major medical as it was once termed. If everyone paid for the basics out of pocket, costs would come down. For those who are truly too poor to cover their own costs, government could give tax credits to cover their costs. There are all types of things that could be done, but you are right, we cannot continue on this path. On top of everything, the cost to employers is a huge burden and part of the reason we have seen so many jobs shipped overseas.

 

[Anachronism]

The best part is that people like this will go as far as to agree with insurance companies doing everything they can to avoid covering those who are a higher risk, just so it keeps their costs down.

It's a business. Medical Insurance Companies are not in the business of making people better. That's what Doctors and Hospitals are in the business of. Medical Insurance Companies are in the business of providing Insurance to cover the cost of those services. Would you expect an automobile insurer to write a policy for a driver with 5 at fault accidents and 3 speeding tickets in the last 18 months?

I had health insurance in Colorado. It was a private plan since I am self-employed. Due to personal reasons, I had to move to Ohio. Because I had a pre-existing condition, I was denied coverage in Ohio, even by the same company that insured me in Colorado. I was with Anthem, and while Anthem of Colorado and Anthem Ohio are separate companies, they share the same parent company, Wellpointe.

But I can see how I such an irresponsible person since I didn't continue to live in Colorado where I could have kept my health insurance. I was personally responsible, and the insurance companies fucked me in the ass. When it comes to my situation, and many others like me, it has nothing to do with personal responsibility. It has to do with a system that is stacked against anyone who may become ill and has zip to do with personal responsibility. People like you live in a fantasy world where every problem has a simple minded solution. Unfortunately, in the real world, those simple minded solutions don't work very often.

The simple minded solution I advocate is to not use the insurance company in situations like that, and the one that I could someday find myself in. The solution is called CASH.

 

[Political Junky]

The best part is that people like this will go as far as to agree with insurance companies doing everything they can to avoid covering those who are a higher risk, just so it keeps their costs down.

It's a business. Medical Insurance Companies are not in the business of making people better. That's what Doctors and Hospitals are in the business of. Medical Insurance Companies are in the business of providing Insurance to cover the cost of those services. Would you expect an automobile insurer to write a policy for a driver with 5 at fault accidents and 3 speeding tickets in the last 18 months?

I had health insurance in Colorado. It was a private plan since I am self-employed. Due to personal reasons, I had to move to Ohio. Because I had a pre-existing condition, I was denied coverage in Ohio, even by the same company that insured me in Colorado. I was with Anthem, and while Anthem of Colorado and Anthem Ohio are separate companies, they share the same parent company, Wellpointe.

But I can see how I such an irresponsible person since I didn't continue to live in Colorado where I could have kept my health insurance. I was personally responsible, and the insurance companies fucked me in the ass. When it comes to my situation, and many others like me, it has nothing to do with personal responsibility. It has to do with a system that is stacked against anyone who may become ill and has zip to do with personal responsibility. People like you live in a fantasy world where every problem has a simple minded solution. Unfortunately, in the real world, those simple minded solutions don't work very often.

The simple minded solution I advocate is to not use the insurance company in situations like that, and the one that I could someday find myself in. The solution is called CASH.

That's great if you're in the top 1% of the richest Americans. Just peel off those thousand dollar bills for a night in the hospital.

 

[Flopper]

Then that's life. Sorry about your bad luck. Try to find a doctor who will take CASH, and cut a deal with him. Otherwise; such is life.

great, so when you're dying and a doctor / hospital has the ability to save you, but you cant afford to pay you get to die.

glad see the value of a human life subservient to the almighty dollar.

That doesn't happen.

What will happen is the hospital will get what they can from you and eat the rest and pass the difference on to everyone else in terms of higher costs.

True. From first hand experience, I can tell you the hospital will be reluctance to admit you unless the credit card you give them has a high enough credit limit to cover the anticipated costs or you have insurance. If it appears that you have no way of paying any of your bill, they will suggest that you try to qualify for Medicaid, seek assistance from a charitable organization, or get a loan. You will eventually find a hospital somewhere that will admit you.

As far as finding a doctor that will perform the procedure, you will have another search to perform. Most doctors will tell you that they just can't afford to take on any more charity work. If you look long enough you will find someone who will take your case and tell you not to worry about money. This means that they will bill you for the whole amount and try to squeeze what they can out of you.

 

[Anachronism]

Junky, what part of "Healthcare is a Privilege NOT a Right are you people still missing?"

 

[Flopper]

The best system is called "Personal Responsibility".

In regard to healthcare, I believe a person should be held responsible to the extent of their capabilities. We should not hold a person responsible if they are physically or mental incapable of assuming those responsibilities.

The only type of healthcare payment system we can have in the current political climate is a multipayer insurance system. In order to keep cost under control insurance, coverage should be mandatory and all insurance, private or government should include a high deductible with subsidies for the poor.

 

[Flopper]

We must have a public option. I propose a not-for-profit co-op that anyone that is a US citizen can join. I figure you could pay in @ $20-$50 per month to get basic care. If you wanted more coverage, and can afford it, you can buy a private policy. Think if we had 40 million Americans in the pool paying $50 a month, I think it would work beautifully - as it would take away the need for workplace insurance and would cost a lot less (for you AND your company). The best part is that you would never again have to send a dime to a parasitic private insurer if you didn't want to. I think Germany has something along these lines and it seems to work really well.

Look, I do support a public option, but you have to be realistic about it. $50 per month doesn't pay for jack shit. If you are going to support a public option or even a one-payer system, you have to understand that costs are not going to be cut in half. They may be reduced some, but healthcare costs a lot of money. While I don't have a problem with the wealthy subsidizing lower income workers when it comes to health insurance or a healthcare system, even the lower income workers need to pay a substantial portion of their income towards their own care. If you don't allow for some personal responsibility, then I can understand others having a beef with footing the entire bill.

I am one of those who took advantage of the new high risk pool that has been made available until 2014 through the healthcare legislation. I am not currently making a great deal of money, but I still am able to afford the $400 per month premium and my out of pocket costs, while also covering my two boys. In total, I now spend close to $600 per month for health insurance, and in a normal year, I have an additional $1000 to 2000 in other medical bills that fall under my deductible. And on top of that, I also pay into Medicare through payroll taxes, which bring my total healthcare spending to $10,000 per year.

If you are going to talk about making real changes, you have to be realistic. There are many ways we can reduce costs, but not to the point where $50 per month will buy you anything.

If you're going to argue for affordable care for everyone, then you need to

Most healthcare debate usually centers on payment system, single payer or multipayer. Yet, neither private nor government insurance is the major problem. Until we do something about how healthcare is delivered we will never have affordable quality healthcare.

 

[dblack]

Most healthcare debate usually centers on payment system, single payer or multipayer. Yet, neither private nor government insurance is the major problem. Until we do something about how healthcare is delivered we will never have affordable quality healthcare.

I couldn't disagree more. Insurance is the major driver of health care inflation and it's the number one reason why health care now costs much more than it should. It's a very simple dynamic: When people aren't paying for their own health care, they have no incentive to seek lower prices and health care providers have no incentive to offer them. Arguably, each has the opposite incentive.

 

[rdean]

Singer payer option. Drop all health care companies.

 

[Political Junky]

Medicare for everyone.

 

[dblack]

Drinks all around! On the house!

 

[Anachronism]

Singer payer option. Drop all health care companies.

Not even an option assuming that Single Payer is the Government. There are actually some of us who have sufficient morals and ethics that we would choose to DIE rather than taking a single penny worth of Government paid for health care.