what is a liberal and which historical leaders were liberals?

[g5000]

Of course, every major dictator in history was a liberal. How very revisionist of you.

A brilliant tactic used by the internal maggots destroying the conservative camp. How could they possibly be Nazis? Only lefties are Nazis!

 

[francoHFW]

If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." Acceptance of the New York Liberal Party nomination (14 September 1960)- JFK

Today the liberal distinction is they have a clue and aren't brainwashed greedy hater dupes. T

""No compromise, un-American Tea Party GOP" (TIME)

 

[Wry Catcher]

Today's 'Liberal' is more in line with the 20th century progressive totalitarians.

And that always ends ugly.

[/IMG]

this is going to be fun-----hitler, marx, and obama. liberal heads are imploding.

Maybe from laughter; posts which need props are usually ridiculous. Sniper Fire is always ridiculous.

 

[Wry Catcher]

right, you get the gold star..

liberal leaders from history: lets see-------

marx, lenin, mao, castro, chavez, for sure

hitler---more of an angry racist dictator but liberal in wanting to destroy wealth

You are wrong on all counts but keep trying. Maybe you'll get one eventually. How are these people ALL Liberals again?

Hitler built the Autobahn.

Hitler destoyed a culture, murdered millions and left Germany in ruins.

 

[Wry Catcher]

(l)iberal thought is not easily defined and anyone who claims all liberals/progressives/Democrats think in lockstep is wrong. The set of liberalism is, in a nut shell, the set of those with an understanding of the past and the hope for a better future. Subsets within the 'liberal' community are many and as varied as are their faces; some pragmatic, some idealistic, some utopian.

Contrasted with the 'conservative' focus one immediately sees the difference; single issue conservatives see civil rights with a narrow focus, they want their right to bear arms but are willing to suppress the rights of gays and lesbians to walk arm in arm together in matromony; they want to take away a women's right to control her own health care; they eat their own, make every member of the GOP a RINO if that person strays from the current dogma.

The 'libeal' sees rights as did Jefferson, the 'conservative' sees rights as does Wayne LaPierre; the former sees rights as universal, the latter as only a Randian could.

Througout history 'conservatives' have defended the status quo and 'liberals' have challenged it. Therein maybe the greatest difference between the two. However, today's 'conservatives' seem to have lost a vision that a better future is possible, they are seek a return to the past, when things they want us to believe were perfect.

 

[g5000]

In my deranged and wandering mind, a modern liberal (as opposed to the classical liberal) is someone who believes in government growth and an increasing intrusion and widening scope of government power into our lives. A liberal is a nascent totalitarian.

So, for example, when some madmen kill some people, a liberal will demand the government immediately expand and more closely monitor and control the group of people to which they can pigeonhole the madmen. That could be the "Muslim" pigeonhole, or it could be the "gun owner" pigeonhole, doesn't matter.

Or, for another example, when there is some kind of crisis, the liberal will demand the government create a whole new cabinet department with overreaching powers, or assign some kind of "czar" to the problem, but most especially the liberal will scream for as many dollars to be borrowed to throw at the problem as possible. That could be the "cancer lady health care" problem, or it could be the "Muslim terrorist under my bed" problem.

If there is one characteristic which is a critical ingredient of the liberal recipe, it is the idea that an emergency measure which was created to address a crisis must be made permanent after the crisis is past. That could be a tax increase or it could be defense spending at a level not seen since WWII.

So that's my idea of the totalitarian wannabes affectionately known as "liberals". Believe it or not, some liberals walking around today are suffering from the delusion they are conservatives!

 

[regent]

There are core beliefs to both liberalism and conservatism, and those core beliefs do not change much. But what does change, are the methods to reach those core beliefs, and these methods are often used as the definition of the ideology. For example, the size of government while often used as definition is not a core belief. Governments, however, are often used to achieve core beliefs of both liberalism and conservatism.
Another problem is that we often label an individual a liberal or conservative and then use those beliefs to define. Were all of Jefferson's beliefs liberal or did he have some ideas that were not liberal?
To me, the bottom line is to start with those core beliefs and then things pretty much fall into line.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

These threads are hilarious because they show just how stupid the liberal/conservative paradigm is. No one has a clear definition of what a liberal or conservative is.

 

[LoneLaugher]

In my deranged and wandering mind, a modern liberal (as opposed to the classical liberal) is someone who believes in government growth and an increasing intrusion and widening scope of government power into our lives. A liberal is a nascent totalitarian.

So, for example, when some madmen kill some people, a liberal will demand the government immediately expand and more closely monitor and control the group of people to which they can pigeonhole the madmen. That could be the "Muslim" pigeonhole, or it could be the "gun owner" pigeonhole, doesn't matter.

Or, for another example, when there is some kind of crisis, the liberal will demand the government create a whole new cabinet department with overreaching powers, or assign some kind of "czar" to the problem, but most especially the liberal will scream for as many dollars to be borrowed to throw at the problem as possible. That could be the "cancer lady health care" problem, or it could be the "Muslim terrorist under my bed" problem.

If there is one characteristic which is a critical ingredient of the liberal recipe, it is the idea that an emergency measure which was created to address a crisis must be made permanent after the crisis is past. That could be a tax increase or it could be defense spending at a level not seen since WWII.

So that's my idea of the totalitarian wannabes affectionately known as "liberals". Believe it or not, some liberals walking around today are suffering from the delusion they are conservatives!

Smart guy.

Smart guys can be wrong. Like this post.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Today's 'Liberal' is more in line with the 20th century progressive totalitarians.

And that always ends ugly.

[/IMG]

this is going to be fun-----hitler, marx, and obama. liberal heads are imploding.

Maybe from laughter; posts which need props are usually ridiculous. Sniper Fire is always ridiculous.

how come you dont say that to LaKota or Shamen when your in their threads Wry?.....they use more "props" than anyone in these threads.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

You are wrong on all counts but keep trying. Maybe you'll get one eventually. How are these people ALL Liberals again?

Hitler built the Autobahn.

Hitler destoyed a culture, murdered millions and left Germany in ruins.

cant argue there.....he also left a few other places in ruins....

 

[Harry Dresden]

These threads are hilarious because they show just how stupid the liberal/conservative paradigm is. No one has a clear definition of what a liberal or conservative is.

yep.....its all perception......and who you agree with or disagree with....disagree with a far righty....you must be a Left winger.....disagree with a Far Lefty....you must be a right winger......

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I would like to hear from both sides on this.

My definition of a modern day liberal is someone that wants a big intrusive controlling government, someone who wants wealth and income redistribution, someone who wants abortion on demand but does not want the 2nd amendment upheld, someone who wants to punish success and reward failure, someone who is comfortable being a slave to the government and wants an active thought and speech police.

You’re entitled to your ‘definition,’ provided you understand it’s completely incorrect.

Consider also the fact that you and others on the right live in a glass house, to wit:

My definition of a modern day conservative is someone who wants a big intrusive controlling government, someone who wants to dictate to citizens whom they can marry and cannot marry, or whether they may use birth control or not, someone who supports Second Amendment rights but is opposed to privacy rights concerning abortion, where the state is allowed to interfere in personal matters, someone who wants to punish the poor for being poor and balance the Federal budget on the backs of working Americans, the disabled, and those retired, someone who is comfortable being a slave to his corporate masters and wants an active thought and speech police.

Get your own house in order first, then get back to us with your ‘definition.’

 

[Borillar]

In my deranged and wandering mind, a modern liberal (as opposed to the classical liberal) is someone who believes in government growth and an increasing intrusion and widening scope of government power into our lives. A liberal is a nascent totalitarian.

So, for example, when some madmen kill some people, a liberal will demand the government immediately expand and more closely monitor and control the group of people to which they can pigeonhole the madmen. That could be the "Muslim" pigeonhole, or it could be the "gun owner" pigeonhole, doesn't matter.

Or, for another example, when there is some kind of crisis, the liberal will demand the government create a whole new cabinet department with overreaching powers, or assign some kind of "czar" to the problem, but most especially the liberal will scream for as many dollars to be borrowed to throw at the problem as possible. That could be the "cancer lady health care" problem, or it could be the "Muslim terrorist under my bed" problem.

If there is one characteristic which is a critical ingredient of the liberal recipe, it is the idea that an emergency measure which was created to address a crisis must be made permanent after the crisis is past. That could be a tax increase or it could be defense spending at a level not seen since WWII.

So that's my idea of the totalitarian wannabes affectionately known as "liberals". Believe it or not, some liberals walking around today are suffering from the delusion they are conservatives!

Geez, I must be a conservative that has been walking around suffering from the delusion that I am liberal because I think the DHS, TSA, Patriot Act, extraordinary rendition, and torture are bad things. All the while the "Conservative" party puts these things forward as good and proper governance. Who would have thought this could be?

 

[francoHFW]

My problem with the GOP is their Propaganda Machine. The hate, character assassination, lies, misinformation, couldn't survive any real debate, but half the GOP lives in a BS alternate universe. See sig pp 3- and aren't told the bad news pp1. A disgrace.

 

[Wry Catcher]

In my deranged and wandering mind, a modern liberal (as opposed to the classical liberal) is someone who believes in government growth and an increasing intrusion and widening scope of government power into our lives. A liberal is a nascent totalitarian.

Well, it seems this paragraph is evidence of the truth of your first phrase, only a deranged and wandering mind would believe the modern liberal is a nascent totalitarian.

So, for example, when some madmen kill some people, a liberal will demand the government more closely monitor and control the group of people to which they can pigeonhole the madmen. That could be the "Muslim" pigeonhole, or it could be the "gun owner" pigeonhole, doesn't matter.

Better to default to the, "so what, kids got killed, let's not make a big deal out of it"?

Or, for another example, when there is some kind of crisis, the liberal will demand the government create a whole new cabinet department with overreaching powers, or assign some kind of "czar" to the problem, but most especially the liberal will scream for as many dollars to be borrowed to throw at the problem as possible. I wonder, was it better that the neo conservatives invaded and occupied Iraq on funds off budget and borrowed? That could be the "health care" problem, or it could be the "terrorist" problem.

Problems need solutions. It seems the conservatives of today simply define the problem as someone else's failure to be responsible and thus redefine the issue - hence the problem goes away.

If there is one characteristic which is a critical ingredient of the liberal recipe, it is the idea that an emergency measure which was created to address a crisis must be made permanent after the crisis is past. That could be a tax increase or it could be defense spending at a level not seen since WWII.

(l)libeals didn't seem too interested in keeping troops in Germany for the past 75 years or invading Vietnam. Unless you are making the argument all those hippies marching in the streets in '60's had a big government agenda. The same can be said for the marchers protesting the Iraq war and the Cccupy Wall Street Movement.

I think your thinking is muddled; the R's who today are either RINO or conservative don't want to cut defense - do they? (provide proof if you say they do).

So that's my idea of the totalitarian wannabes affectionately known as "liberals". Believe it or not, some liberals walking around today are suffering from the delusion they are conservatives!

I'll leave you to tag the delusional, you seem to have some personal experience.

 

[g5000]

In my deranged and wandering mind, a modern liberal (as opposed to the classical liberal) is someone who believes in government growth and an increasing intrusion and widening scope of government power into our lives. A liberal is a nascent totalitarian.

So, for example, when some madmen kill some people, a liberal will demand the government immediately expand and more closely monitor and control the group of people to which they can pigeonhole the madmen. That could be the "Muslim" pigeonhole, or it could be the "gun owner" pigeonhole, doesn't matter.

Or, for another example, when there is some kind of crisis, the liberal will demand the government create a whole new cabinet department with overreaching powers, or assign some kind of "czar" to the problem, but most especially the liberal will scream for as many dollars to be borrowed to throw at the problem as possible. That could be the "cancer lady health care" problem, or it could be the "Muslim terrorist under my bed" problem.

If there is one characteristic which is a critical ingredient of the liberal recipe, it is the idea that an emergency measure which was created to address a crisis must be made permanent after the crisis is past. That could be a tax increase or it could be defense spending at a level not seen since WWII.

So that's my idea of the totalitarian wannabes affectionately known as "liberals". Believe it or not, some liberals walking around today are suffering from the delusion they are conservatives!

Geez, I must be a conservative that has been walking around suffering from the delusion that I am liberal because I think the DHS, TSA, Patriot Act, extraordinary rendition, and torture are bad things. All the while the "Conservative" party puts these things forward as good and proper governance. Who would have thought this could be?

You clearly misunderstood me.

 

[eflatminor]

Geez, I must be a conservative that has been walking around suffering from the delusion that I am liberal because I think the DHS, TSA, Patriot Act, extraordinary rendition, and torture are bad things.

President Obama doesn't think those things are bad. He supports the DHS and the TSA, reauthorized the Patriot Act, signed the NDAA and while Obama called for more oversight of extraordinary rendition, he certainly did not end it. Similarly, Obama spoke out against 'water-boarding' but didn't seem to mind that "enhanced interrogations" lead to the finding Bin Laden.

All the while the "Conservative" party puts these things forward as good and proper governance. Who would have thought this could be?

Apparently, our President.

 

[g5000]

In my deranged and wandering mind, a modern liberal (as opposed to the classical liberal) is someone who believes in government growth and an increasing intrusion and widening scope of government power into our lives. A liberal is a nascent totalitarian.

Well, it seems this paragraph is evidence of the truth of your first phrase, only a deranged and wandering mind would believe the modern liberal is a nascent totalitarian.

I recommend you read The Road To Serfdom to see where liberalism is going.

So, for example, when some madmen kill some people, a liberal will demand the government more closely monitor and control the group of people to which they can pigeonhole the madmen. That could be the "Muslim" pigeonhole, or it could be the "gun owner" pigeonhole, doesn't matter.

Better to default to the, "so what, kids got killed, let's not make a big deal out of it"?

Fallacy of the excluded middle. Try again.

Or, for another example, when there is some kind of crisis, the liberal will demand the government create a whole new cabinet department with overreaching powers, or assign some kind of "czar" to the problem, but most especially the liberal will scream for as many dollars to be borrowed to throw at the problem as possible. I wonder, was it better that the neo conservatives invaded and occupied Iraq on funds off budget and borrowed? That could be the "health care" problem, or it could be the "terrorist" problem.

Problems need solutions. It seems the conservatives of today simply define the problem as someone else's failure to be responsible and thus redefine the issue - hence the problem goes away.

Problems need solutions. Liberals believe problems need government solutions. As the great man said, "Government IS the problem".

If there is one characteristic which is a critical ingredient of the liberal recipe, it is the idea that an emergency measure which was created to address a crisis must be made permanent after the crisis is past. That could be a tax increase or it could be defense spending at a level not seen since WWII.

(l)libeals didn't seem too interested in keeping troops in Germany for the past 75 years or invading Vietnam. Unless you are making the argument all those hippies marching in the streets in '60's had a big government agenda. The same can be said for the marchers protesting the Iraq war and the Cccupy Wall Street Movement.

I think your thinking is muddled; the R's who today are either RINO or conservative don't want to cut defense - do they? (provide proof if you say they do).

You also misunderstood me on this point, as Borillar did. I am a strong advocate for cutting defense spending.

 

[ReallyMeow]

Jon Stewart mocks Glenn Beck?s centrally planned nostalgic Marxist utopia | The Raw Story

simple enough