What Constitutional Rights Apply to an Unborn Fetus: Judicial Interpretation as opposed to Legal/JudicialPhilosophy

[Blues Man]

Oh I do, and much of that had to do with one fetus developing faster than one conceived earlier.

So how do we give rights, at one point in this continuum while assuring the others rights have not been violated.

Once again our knowledge of fetal development and centuries worth of medical science not to mention our imaging technology can tell us when the fetus is developed to the point of viability outside the womb

 

[Dante Reawakened]

Can we find it in the US Constitution? If so where? If not...

Eat a Queer Fetus for Jesus

Obscure, EAQFFJ, Eat a Queer Fetus For Jesus, Movie, Film, Video Game, Unusual, Experimental, Loud, Distorted, Altered Beast #acoustic #jesus #electric #movie

www.soundclick.com

''

I remember these people well

Church of Euthanasia FAQ

Frequently asked questions about the Church of Euthanasia

www.churchofeuthanasia.org

 

[HeyNorm]

Supersede is the correct term because you want to force a woman to to have her own body and will subjugated to the fertilized ovum

No one advocates a woman being forced to continue a pregnancy that might kill her. If they do, I would fight against any such law.

At the same time, given that the intercourse was consensual, the fetus, as you say, has some right to live? Correct?

This is equal.

 

[HeyNorm]

Once again our knowledge of fetal development and centuries worth of medical science not to mention our imaging technology can tell us when the fetus is developed to the point of viability outside the womb

Ok, at what point is this?

 

[Blues Man]

No one advocates a woman being forced to continue a pregnancy that might kill her. If they do, I would fight against any such law.

At the same time, given that the intercourse was consensual, the fetus, as you say, has some right to live? Correct?

This is equal.

No it isn't equal. It all comes down to when the developing fetus becomes a person. The fact is that 93% of pregnancies occur at less than 13 weeks and most of that 93% are done with medications which means most of that 93% of first trimester abortions are done before 9 weeks and are physically no different from a miscarriage.

 

[Blues Man]

Ok, at what point is this?

I've already been over this in the thread

 

[HeyNorm]

I've already been over this in the thread

You know fetuses don’t progress at the same rate, right?

 

[Blues Man]

You know fetuses don’t progress at the same rate, right?

The averages work for the vast majority. Medical science has proven that.

But the fact is that less than 1% of all abortions ever occur after week 21 anyway and 93% occur before the 13th week and most of that 93% occur before week 9 so the obsession with late term abortion is completely unfounded in reality

 

[HeyNorm]

The averages work for the vast majority. Medical science has proven that.

But the fact is that less than 1% of all abortions ever occur after week 21 anyway and 93% occur before the 13th week and most of that 93% occur before week 9 so the obsession with late term abortion is completely unfounded in reality

You just wrote exactly why your proposal fails. Average cannot be used in civil rights cases. Similarly situated is based on the individual. If it can be proven that a single 14 week fetus has progressed as much as a single 15 week fetus, the test fails.

 

[Blues Man]

You just wrote exactly why your proposal fails. Average cannot be used in civil rights cases. Similarly situated is based on the individual. If it can be proven that a single 14 week fetus has progressed as much as a single 15 week fetus, the test fails.

There is no civil rights issue because fetuses have no civil rights.

And once again you are obsessing over late term abortions here and as I have repeatedly said in this thread, less than 1% of all abortions occur after week 21.

Or are you trying to tell me a fetus at 9 weeks is similarly situated to one at 24 weeks?

 

[HeyNorm]

There is no civil rights issue because fetuses have no civil rights.

And once again you are obsessing over late term abortions here and as I have repeatedly said in this thread, less than 1% of all abortions occur after week 21.

Or are you trying to tell me a fetus at 9 weeks is similarly situated to one at 24 weeks?

You gave a time frame to protect the fetus. Granting it the right to exist.

It now is a civil rights issue.

 

[Blues Man]

You gave a time frame to protect the fetus. Granting it the right to exist.

It now is a civil rights issue.

No it isn't. SCOTUS has ruled that abortion is not a matter for the federal government and never has SCOTUS interpreted the word person in the Constitution to mean anything other than born humans.

 

[HeyNorm]

There is no civil rights issue because fetuses have no civil rights.

And once again you are obsessing over late term abortions here and as I have repeatedly said in this thread, less than 1% of all abortions occur after week 21.

Or are you trying to tell me a fetus at 9 weeks is similarly situated to one at 24 weeks?

All I have to do is prove a single 14 week fetus is similarly situated to a single 15 week.

Then a single 13 week is similarly situated to a single 14 week.

And on and on.

 

[HeyNorm]

No it isn't. SCOTUS has ruled that abortion is not a matter for the federal government and never has SCOTUS interpreted the word person in the Constitution to mean anything other than born humans.

Then it falls under property laws, and no where has anyone been able to force property onto another.

 

[Blues Man]

All I have to do is prove a single 14 week fetus is similarly situated to a single 15 week.

Then a single 13 week is similarly situated to a single 14 week.

And on and on.

That's not how it works.

Since neither a 14 week nor a 13 week fetus can survive outside the womb.

Besides all anyone would have to do is deliver the 13 week fetus and let medical technology try and fail to keep it alive.

 

[Blues Man]

Then it falls under property laws, and no where has anyone been able to force property onto another.

A fertilized ovum is not a person.

 

[HeyNorm]

That's not how it works.

Since neither a 14 week nor a 13 week fetus can survive outside the womb.

Besides all anyone would have to do is deliver the 13 week fetus and let medical technology try and fail to keep it alive.

If a 14 week fetus has developed faster than any individual 15 week fetus it has an equal if not, in some cases, better chance of survival and is similarly situated. And therefor the law would be arbitrary.

And that’s all that’s required.

 

[Blues Man]

If a 14 week fetus has developed faster than any individual 15 week fetus it has an equal if not, in some cases, better chance of survival and is similarly situated. And therefor the law would be arbitrary.

And that’s all that’s required.

You have a link citing the legality of your claim of requirements I suppose or are you just making shit up?

And according to your logic there, the entire age of majority concept that our society is based on is meaningless.

If a 15 year old is more mature than a 21 year old he should be considered an adult right?

 

[HeyNorm]

You have a link citing the legality of your claim of requirements I suppose or are you just making shit up?

And according to your logic there, the entire age of majority concept that our society is based on is meaningless.

If a 15 year old is more mature than a 21 year old he should be considered an adult right?

Physical and mental development are two very seperate issue. But yes, if there is a law that says one life is less valuable than another, it would be arbitrary

 

[Blues Man]

Physical and mental development are two very seperate issue. But yes, if there is a law that says one life is less valuable than another, it would be arbitrary

the whole classification of metal development is based the averages derived from the study of it and you said averages don't matter because some fetuses develop faster than others so certainly people will all have different rates of mental development won't they?

And it's not the issue of life the issue is when does the fertilized ovum become a person. All human cells are human life but not all human cells are persons.