Were the Confederates traitors

[Mushroom]

A little history to make you aware of what happened

I am well aware.

The South panicked upon the election of Lincoln

Just like WWI and WWII, the signs of the war coming were already very visible even before the election of 1860.

I think one of the pivotal moments was the caning of Charles Sumner in the US Senate Chamber in 1856. That attack showed clearly that the Radicals had the reigns in the South, and little was going to stop them short of war.

For over a decade before 1860, three Presidents in a row (Millard Filmore, Franklin Pierce, and James Buchanan) were struggling with how to deal with the increasing "militantism" of the Southern States. And even among those states, there was a sharp divide. Which can be seen by the simple fact that Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri were all slave states that did not secede and join the Confederacy.

It was much less panic, and far more that that allowed the radicals who wanted a war to scare the rest into starting it.

 

[Mushroom]

No, but it took 5 years and hundreds of thousands of deaths to force surrender. Would you have described the Axis powers as weak and ineffective in WWII? They never had a chance against American military and manufacturing superiority either.

The interesting thing is, that most really do not know how the war actually ended.

On 12 April 1864, the Confederate Army did not surrender, nor did the CSA. The only unit that surrendered was the Army of Northern Virginia, which was around 50,000 men. Now that was about 1/4 of the CSA military, but there were a great many units still actively fighting the Union.

However, what followed at that point was like a snowball rolling down hill. With the Army of Northern Virginia gone, there as nothing to stop the Union forces from taking the capitol of Richmond. Then on top of that, the assassination of President Lincoln just two days later.

That shocked and appalled many in the South, as they had already learned the generous terms he was asking for. No trials for those that had fought, no purges of leadership. Simply for the soldiers to lay down their arms and go home.

And Appomattox was not even the largest surrender of the conflict. After a series of three meetings between General Joseph Johnston and General Sherman from 17 to 26 April, General Johnston surrendered his forces numbering almost 90,000 men. Who even ordered Union forces to give the former Confederate forces ten days of rations so they could eat on their way home.

But a key thing that the CSA shares with the Germans and Japanese of WWII was the belief that they were so superior to their foes that their lack of numbers or equipment would allow them to prevail. And less than a century later, Japan would follow almost the exact same battle plan with the exact same results. Thinking that they could lure the US into a single decisive battle, and so badly defeat them that they would withdraw from the war.

And interestingly enough, this video just dropped less than a week ago.



In short, it is the experiences of WWII German POWs that were sent to the US for internment. And how it completely shocked the German forces who were now in captivity. How single states in the US were producing more food than the entirety of Germany.

 

[Mushroom]

They killed Americans

They were Americans also. That is why it is still the deadliest war the US has ever been involved in.

It always puzzles me how people can continue to hold so much hate for something that happened over 160 years ago.

 

[Quantrill]

They were traitors. They killed Americans to keep the wealthy with slaves. They lost. The slaves were freed. Only crackers in low rent states living in trailers contest this still. Its embarrassing. The entire country thinks you are sad.

Nice speech. But means nothing when you avoid the questions. Your refusal to answer the question shows the emptiness of your argument. Glory, glory....hallelujah, John Brown is marching on.

Quantrill

 

[rightwinger]

Virginia militia fought and surrounded John Brown long before the Feds arrived. Because it was a Federal Arsenal the Feds had no choice but to send troops in.

The Feds let Virgina execute John Brown because, as I said, he was their man. He was doing nothing they disapproved of. That is why they worshipped him, glorified him, deified him after the execution.

John Brown raised his money for Harpers Ferry from the North. The North sent him. The South knew, as they always feared, that the North would create a slave insurrection to murder all the whites in the South. John Brown proved their fears correct.

'Glory, glory...hallelujah, John Brown is marching on'. Just gives you goose bumps...don't it?

Quantrill

John Brown was right

 

[hadit]

They were Americans also. That is why it is still the deadliest war the US has ever been involved in.

It always puzzles me how people can continue to hold so much hate for something that happened over 160 years ago.

Especially when the Confederates were pardoned and allowed back into free society, not as conquered foes.

 

[Zincwarrior]

t always puzzles me how people can continue to hold so much hate for something that happened over 160 years ago.

We don't. We also don't start threads making up bullshit excuses like the OP.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Glory, glory....hallelujah, John Brown is marching on.

A true hero.

 

[Quantrill]

John Brown was right

And what was the charge for which Brown was hung?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

A true hero.

And what was the charge for which Brown was hung?

Quantrill

 

[rightwinger]

And what was the charge for which Brown was hung?

Quantrill

Brown was morally opposed to slavery
He gave up his life in an attempt to end it

More of a hero than any of the Confederates

 

[Quantrill]

Brown was morally opposed to slavery
He gave up his life in an attempt to end it

More of a hero than any of the Confederates

Did you see my question?

Quantrill

 

[rightwinger]

Did you see my question?

Quantrill

Don’t give a shit if he broke the law

He sacrificed his life to end slavery
Those who died for the Confederacy gave their lives to protect it

 

[Quantrill]

Don’t give a shit if he broke the law

He sacrificed his life to end slavery
Those who died for the Confederacy gave their lives to protect it

What was the charge against Brown for which he was hung?

Quantrill

 

[hadit]

Don’t give a shit if he broke the law

He sacrificed his life to end slavery
Those who died for the Confederacy gave their lives to protect it

And, of course, that is the black/white version taught to kids in grade school.

 

[rightwinger]

What was the charge against Brown for which he was hung?

Quantrill

Don’t give a shit
He was going to be hung anyway

Like Nathan Hale, he was hung for doing what was right
Our nations slave policies were not right

John Brown was a Patriot fighting for Liberty
Freeing slave was more about Liberty than what our Founding Fathers fought for

 

[there4eyeM]

And what was the charge for which Brown was hung?

Quantrill

What was the charge against Brown for which he was hung?

Quantrill

It is not recorded how 'hung' he was when he was hanged.

 

[Mushroom]

Brown was morally opposed to slavery
He gave up his life in an attempt to end it

With the same tactics that a contemporary suicide terrorist would agree with.

And the first person killed in his raid? Was it one of the oppressors that had to die in order to "liberate" the slaves?

Nope, it was Heyward Shepherd. A freed black man who lived in Virginia and worked as a porter for the railroad. Who owned a house, had a bank account, and was married with five children. He was poplar in the community, and was in charge of the railroad station when the station master was not there.

That is why he was at the station when the raiders arrived, and why he was the first person killed.

What Brown did was just as wrong as what Nat Turner had tried 29 years earlier. Purposefully slaughtering innocents who are in no way involved is not how one conducts a "revolution". Unless you are an animal.

 

[Mushroom]

What was the charge against Brown for which he was hung?

Treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia for attempting to incite an insurrection.

And if for some reason he had been acquitted of that, he then would have faced charges for the attack on the US Armory and Arsenal at Harper's Ferry. Which likely would have seen him shot by the Army as that was Federal Property and under the jurisdiction of the Army.

The Federal Government simply did what it still mostly does to this day. Let the local authorities get their "pound of flesh", then if there is anything left afterwards they then take their own. Especially in cases like this where multiple crimes were done, so the risk of "Double Jeopardy" does not exist.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Which likely would have seen him shot by the Army as that was Federal Property and under the jurisdiction of the Army.

Now you see why the OP is wrong. The CSA literally attacked Federal property and US troops.