America's True Civil War

[Dante]

America's True Civil War: America, not the USA, but America. My own direct descendant on the male line (Surname) was a Loyalist. Not a traitor, but a Loyalist. Members of his own family line in the colonies fought alongside him, as well opposite him.

War at Saber Point: Banastre Tarleton and the British Legion by John Knight The American Loyalist Regiment Led by the Most Charismatic British Commander of the War The British Legion was one of the most remarkable regiments, not only of the American Revolution, but of any war. A corps made up of American Loyalists, it saw its first action in New York and then engaged in almost every battle in the Southern colonies. Led by a twenty-four-year-old libertine who purchased his commission to escape enormous gambling debts, the Legion gained notoriety for its ruthless tactics. Excelling in “special operations,” they frequently overwhelmed the Continental forces they fought, becoming the most feared British regiment of the war.

Banastre Tarleton and the Americans he led have always been characterized as brutal, immoral villains—most recently in the movie, The Patriot. But this study subverts our pre-conceived notions of patriotism. The men who filled the Legions ranks were not weak-willed collaborators or treacherous renegades, but free men as motivated by conscience as the Patriots they battled.

Few were wealthy. None had a vested stake in the British Government. Each believed that in defending the Crown; they were upholding the rule of law and preserving individual liberty. These men followed Banastre Tarleton clear across America for years, sacrificing not only their families and homes but, in many instances, their lives. Self-interest could not have persuaded them to do this. Patriotism and fidelity did.

Relying on first-hand accounts—letters, diaries, and journals—War at Saber Point: Banastre Tarleton and the British Legion is the enthralling story of those forgotten Americans and the young Englishman who led them.

 

[Dante]

Review: War at Saber Point: Banastre Tarleton and the British Legion - Journal of the American Revolution

War at Saber Point: Banastre Tarleton and the British Legion by John Knight (Yardley, PA: Westholme Publishing, 2020) The American Revolution produced numerous well-known corps of light troops on both sides, some cavalry, some infantry, and some including both. While many are familiar with tales...

allthingsliberty.com

 

[Winston]

America's True Civil War: America, not the USA, but America. My own direct descendant on the male line (Surname) was a Loyalist. Not a traitor, but a Loyalist. Members of his own family line in the colonies fought alongside him, as well opposite him.

Thank you. Most people don't realize what it was like during the American Revolution. It really was neighbor against neighbor, brother against brother. More than a few family feuds were settled in the midst of war.

But you bring up Tarleton. Honestly, I don't know how we put up with this for all those decades.

On a late summer afternoon in 2005 representatives from Sotheby’s, the world’s most prestigious Fine Art auctioneers, pulled up outside the Hampshire home of Christopher Tarleton-Fagan. Fagan was a retired Grenadier Guards officer and the owner and custodian of four of the most historic Revolutionary war artefacts still remaining in private hands. He was also the great-great-great-great-nephew of British cavalry commander, Banastre Tarleton.

"Four Battleflags of the Revolution: Captured by Lt.-Col. Banastre Tarleton" - Journal of the American Revolution
WTF. Great, great, great, WTF? How the hell does he have OUR flags? Spoils of war? The flags have blood on them. Men died carrying them. Some jackwhipe British twit owns it? Tarleton got to keep it? But again, from the linked article,

The buyer was anonymous, and Sotheby’s, professionals that they are, have always declined to identify the individual or even confirm that they are American. The firm did, however, let slip a few clues both before and after the sale. During the initial view, the auctioneer, David N. Redden, a vice chairman at Sotheby’s, said, “I’ll eat my hat if they don’t remain in the country.” After the bidding, he merely added the cryptic appendix: “I won’t have to eat my hat.”[12]

So, all concluded that these four flags had returned to their mother country ironically at a price more than the cost of the entire Revolutionary War. To date, the buyer remains anonymous. However, the flags have been exhibited on occasion, implying that a citizen indeed bought them and they reside somewhere in the USA.

You will never convince me that Tarleton didn't lose the war for Cornwallis. At the beginning of the Revolution Washington tasked Hamilton with visiting the states and estimating how many volunteers he could get for the Continental Army. For North Carolina, he reported, ZERO. What most people don't know, at the beginning of the Revolution Northern North Carolina was not owned by the crown. It was still in private hands. Like we gave a shit. And in the Western part, and Tennessee--I mean just when the hell were you going to show up, crossing countless rivers, climbing thousands of feet in rough territory, who are we kidding. We put down roots here for a reason, now leave us alone.

Tarleton didn't leave well enough alone. Some say it started with Waxhaw, and that really wasn't his fault, his horse had him pinned down. But it became a calling cry. And that stupid Pete Hegseth, who must have flunked American History, and evidently Bible 101 too. That rallying call was "Tarleton's Quarter". Which basically meant "no quarter".

The end result, King's Mountain. You know how many British soldiers were on King's Mountain that day? One, Fergunson. It was Loyalists against Patriots, or more like, some pissed off big ass redneck Mountain men. Historians claim they can't figure out who shot Fergunson, but I know one person that did, and I know where the gun is. But man, a half dozen marksmen pegged his ass.

And ain't no lie, they were yelling Tarleton's quarter. White flags flying and the Patriots out for vengeance. A testament to the control the leadership had. Leadership Hegseth would have already fired. Big, fat colonels. They notched the victory and headed west, hundreds of prisoners in tow, all Loyalist. I mean these men, they knew their captives. They were their neighbors.

Again, no one can even imagine how rough things were. Damn Straits of Hormuz closes for a month and the world goes all to shit. Four years, rolling on five, crops can't get put in the ground, hard currency almost non-existent. And as they March West they eat some green corn. October, green corn, I can't even begin what that says. They get sick, they had enough.

They roll into Biggerstaff Fields. Not far from where I am right now. I knew the tree, but it is gone now. Like many trees from our founding in this area. They started stringing those prisoners up, three at a time in that big old Oak Tree. The very owner of the farm, wife, begging for husband's life. They string him up, it is a moment of rage. A culmination of years of turmoil.

And if you ask me, it is a moment of divine Providence. They have ran two sets of executions, got the third set rigged up. In storms a kid, maybe 14, probably not that. HIs horse lathered, been riding him so hard. And that ties back to Cesar Rodney, our nation, in two lathered horses.

Still researching, I believe is last name was Lawson. Had four brothers. One, loyalist, killed at King's Mountain, another, a Patriot, and two Loyalists prisoners, one with a noose around his neck at that very moment. He jumps off his horse and begs for his brothers life. A wife, that didn't work. But here comes this young kid, he is saying he needs help getting the crops in, has to take care of Mom.

In a moment that should go down in history. It all came to an end. They took the brother down, they stopped the hangings, and they bid their Loyalist captives fair well. Their neighbors, their friends, take care of Mom.

 

[Dante]

Thank you. Most people don't realize what it was like during the American Revolution. It really was neighbor against neighbor, brother against brother. More than a few family feuds were settled in the midst of war.

But you bring up Tarleton. Honestly, I don't know how we put up with this for all those decades.

On a late summer afternoon in 2005 representatives from Sotheby’s, the world’s most prestigious Fine Art auctioneers, pulled up outside the Hampshire home of Christopher Tarleton-Fagan. Fagan was a retired Grenadier Guards officer and the owner and custodian of four of the most historic Revolutionary war artefacts still remaining in private hands. He was also the great-great-great-great-nephew of British cavalry commander, Banastre Tarleton.

"Four Battleflags of the Revolution: Captured by Lt.-Col. Banastre Tarleton" - Journal of the American Revolution
WTF. Great, great, great, WTF? How the hell does he have OUR flags? Spoils of war? The flags have blood on them. Men died carrying them. Some jackwhipe British twit owns it? Tarleton got to keep it? But again, from the linked article,

The buyer was anonymous, and Sotheby’s, professionals that they are, have always declined to identify the individual or even confirm that they are American. The firm did, however, let slip a few clues both before and after the sale. During the initial view, the auctioneer, David N. Redden, a vice chairman at Sotheby’s, said, “I’ll eat my hat if they don’t remain in the country.” After the bidding, he merely added the cryptic appendix: “I won’t have to eat my hat.”[12]

So, all concluded that these four flags had returned to their mother country ironically at a price more than the cost of the entire Revolutionary War. To date, the buyer remains anonymous. However, the flags have been exhibited on occasion, implying that a citizen indeed bought them and they reside somewhere in the USA.

You will never convince me that Tarleton didn't lose the war for Cornwallis. At the beginning of the Revolution Washington tasked Hamilton with visiting the states and estimating how many volunteers he could get for the Continental Army. For North Carolina, he reported, ZERO. What most people don't know, at the beginning of the Revolution Northern North Carolina was not owned by the crown. It was still in private hands. Like we gave a shit. And in the Western part, and Tennessee--I mean just when the hell were you going to show up, crossing countless rivers, climbing thousands of feet in rough territory, who are we kidding. We put down roots here for a reason, now leave us alone.

Tarleton didn't leave well enough alone. Some say it started with Waxhaw, and that really wasn't his fault, his horse had him pinned down. But it became a calling cry. And that stupid Pete Hegseth, who must have flunked American History, and evidently Bible 101 too. That rallying call was "Tarleton's Quarter". Which basically meant "no quarter".

The end result, King's Mountain. You know how many British soldiers were on King's Mountain that day? One, Fergunson. It was Loyalists against Patriots, or more like, some pissed off big ass redneck Mountain men. Historians claim they can't figure out who shot Fergunson, but I know one person that did, and I know where the gun is. But man, a half dozen marksmen pegged his ass.

And ain't no lie, they were yelling Tarleton's quarter. White flags flying and the Patriots out for vengeance. A testament to the control the leadership had. Leadership Hegseth would have already fired. Big, fat colonels. They notched the victory and headed west, hundreds of prisoners in tow, all Loyalist. I mean these men, they knew their captives. They were their neighbors.

Again, no one can even imagine how rough things were. Damn Straits of Hormuz closes for a month and the world goes all to shit. Four years, rolling on five, crops can't get put in the ground, hard currency almost non-existent. And as they March West they eat some green corn. October, green corn, I can't even begin what that says. They get sick, they had enough.

They roll into Biggerstaff Fields. Not far from where I am right now. I knew the tree, but it is gone now. Like many trees from our founding in this area. They started stringing those prisoners up, three at a time in that big old Oak Tree. The very owner of the farm, wife, begging for husband's life. They string him up, it is a moment of rage. A culmination of years of turmoil.

And if you ask me, it is a moment of divine Providence. They have ran two sets of executions, got the third set rigged up. In storms a kid, maybe 14, probably not that. HIs horse lathered, been riding him so hard. And that ties back to Cesar Rodney, our nation, in two lathered horses.

Still researching, I believe is last name was Lawson. Had four brothers. One, loyalist, killed at King's Mountain, another, a Patriot, and two Loyalists prisoners, one with a noose around his neck at that very moment. He jumps off his horse and begs for his brothers life. A wife, that didn't work. But here comes this young kid, he is saying he needs help getting the crops in, has to take care of Mom.

In a moment that should go down in history. It all came to an end. They took the brother down, they stopped the hangings, and they bid their Loyalist captives fair well. Their neighbors, their friends, take care of Mom.

Allow me to read this again before I can respond

and ty ahead of time

 

[Dante]

Thank you. Most people don't realize what it was like during the American Revolution. It really was neighbor against neighbor, brother against brother. More than a few family feuds were settled in the midst of war.

But you bring up Tarleton. Honestly, I don't know how we put up with this for all those decades.

On a late summer afternoon in 2005 representatives from Sotheby’s, the world’s most prestigious Fine Art auctioneers, pulled up outside the Hampshire home of Christopher Tarleton-Fagan. Fagan was a retired Grenadier Guards officer and the owner and custodian of four of the most historic Revolutionary war artefacts still remaining in private hands. He was also the great-great-great-great-nephew of British cavalry commander, Banastre Tarleton.

"Four Battleflags of the Revolution: Captured by Lt.-Col. Banastre Tarleton" - Journal of the American Revolution
WTF. Great, great, great, WTF? How the hell does he have OUR flags? Spoils of war? The flags have blood on them. Men died carrying them. Some jackwhipe British twit owns it? Tarleton got to keep it? But again, from the linked article,

The buyer was anonymous, and Sotheby’s, professionals that they are, have always declined to identify the individual or even confirm that they are American. The firm did, however, let slip a few clues both before and after the sale. During the initial view, the auctioneer, David N. Redden, a vice chairman at Sotheby’s, said, “I’ll eat my hat if they don’t remain in the country.” After the bidding, he merely added the cryptic appendix: “I won’t have to eat my hat.”[12]

So, all concluded that these four flags had returned to their mother country ironically at a price more than the cost of the entire Revolutionary War. To date, the buyer remains anonymous. However, the flags have been exhibited on occasion, implying that a citizen indeed bought them and they reside somewhere in the USA.

You will never convince me that Tarleton didn't lose the war for Cornwallis. At the beginning of the Revolution Washington tasked Hamilton with visiting the states and estimating how many volunteers he could get for the Continental Army. For North Carolina, he reported, ZERO. What most people don't know, at the beginning of the Revolution Northern North Carolina was not owned by the crown. It was still in private hands. Like we gave a shit. And in the Western part, and Tennessee--I mean just when the hell were you going to show up, crossing countless rivers, climbing thousands of feet in rough territory, who are we kidding. We put down roots here for a reason, now leave us alone.

Tarleton didn't leave well enough alone. Some say it started with Waxhaw, and that really wasn't his fault, his horse had him pinned down. But it became a calling cry. And that stupid Pete Hegseth, who must have flunked American History, and evidently Bible 101 too. That rallying call was "Tarleton's Quarter". Which basically meant "no quarter".

The end result, King's Mountain. You know how many British soldiers were on King's Mountain that day? One, Fergunson. It was Loyalists against Patriots, or more like, some pissed off big ass redneck Mountain men. Historians claim they can't figure out who shot Fergunson, but I know one person that did, and I know where the gun is. But man, a half dozen marksmen pegged his ass.

And ain't no lie, they were yelling Tarleton's quarter. White flags flying and the Patriots out for vengeance. A testament to the control the leadership had. Leadership Hegseth would have already fired. Big, fat colonels. They notched the victory and headed west, hundreds of prisoners in tow, all Loyalist. I mean these men, they knew their captives. They were their neighbors.

Again, no one can even imagine how rough things were. Damn Straits of Hormuz closes for a month and the world goes all to shit. Four years, rolling on five, crops can't get put in the ground, hard currency almost non-existent. And as they March West they eat some green corn. October, green corn, I can't even begin what that says. They get sick, they had enough.

They roll into Biggerstaff Fields. Not far from where I am right now. I knew the tree, but it is gone now. Like many trees from our founding in this area. They started stringing those prisoners up, three at a time in that big old Oak Tree. The very owner of the farm, wife, begging for husband's life. They string him up, it is a moment of rage. A culmination of years of turmoil.

And if you ask me, it is a moment of divine Providence. They have ran two sets of executions, got the third set rigged up. In storms a kid, maybe 14, probably not that. HIs horse lathered, been riding him so hard. And that ties back to Cesar Rodney, our nation, in two lathered horses.

Still researching, I believe is last name was Lawson. Had four brothers. One, loyalist, killed at King's Mountain, another, a Patriot, and two Loyalists prisoners, one with a noose around his neck at that very moment. He jumps off his horse and begs for his brothers life. A wife, that didn't work. But here comes this young kid, he is saying he needs help getting the crops in, has to take care of Mom.

In a moment that should go down in history. It all came to an end. They took the brother down, they stopped the hangings, and they bid their Loyalist captives fair well. Their neighbors, their friends, take care of Mom.

"We put down roots here for a reason, now leave us alone?"

 

[Winston]

"We put down roots here for a reason, now leave us alone?"

Something I have always said. My great, great, I don't even know how many greats, Grandpa was the first white person West of the Catawba River. My people settled here because it was remote and they were pretty much left alone. It had to be that way. Rivers made crossing the state difficult. Native Americans had virtually eliminated the white population in the Tuscarora War.

So anyways, what I have always said is we allow you other yahoos to live here because, normally, you got the good sense to leave us alone.

 

[Dante]

Something I have always said. My great, great, I don't even know how many greats, Grandpa was the first white person West of the Catawba River. My people settled here because it was remote and they were pretty much left alone. It had to be that way. Rivers made crossing the state difficult. Native Americans had virtually eliminated the white population in the Tuscarora War.

So anyways, what I have always said is we allow you other yahoos to live here because, normally, you got the good sense to leave us alone.

My first relation in North America founded towns in Dutch controlled NY. Also a few New England towns, though there the stories get harder to verify.

Founded New Brunswick (carved it out of Nova Scotia). It was all wilderness for those generations. I have seen documents written about the hardships faced.

You appear to live with myths. Good for you, but realities are much more nuanced and better stories

 

[Winston]

My first relation in North America founded towns in Dutch controlled NY. Also a few New England towns, though there the stories get harder to verify.

Founded New Brunswick (carved it out of Nova Scotia). It was all wilderness for those generations. I have seen documents written about the hardships faced.

You appear to live with myths. Good for you, but realities are much more nuanced and better stories

Yeah, that is always the thing with you Yankees. So, played with AI a little bit,

• The Rifle's History: Henry Weidner, a prominent early settler in North Carolina, provided his son, Daniel Weidner, with a rifle. This rifle played a significant role in the Battle of Kings Mountain, where Daniel Weidner is credited with shooting Major Ferguson.
• Donation and Display: The rifle was eventually donated to a battleground company, leading to its current location at the Guilford Battle Ground museum. While some older records might suggest its display at other locations at different times, current information points to Guilford Battle Ground.

Google Search

Surprised me, actually giving Daniel credit. If you are really interested, well you can see some of those myths here.

https://www.catawbacountync.gov/library/gen/Weidner--Henry%20Memorial%20Service.pdf

You can check out Biggerstaff Fields here.

The Biggerstaff Plantation Hangings

thewilkesrecord.com

 

[Dante]

Yeah, that is always the thing with you Yankees. So, played with AI a little bit,

• The Rifle's History: Henry Weidner, a prominent early settler in North Carolina, provided his son, Daniel Weidner, with a rifle. This rifle played a significant role in the Battle of Kings Mountain, where Daniel Weidner is credited with shooting Major Ferguson.
• Donation and Display: The rifle was eventually donated to a battleground company, leading to its current location at the Guilford Battle Ground museum. While some older records might suggest its display at other locations at different times, current information points to Guilford Battle Ground.

Google Search

Surprised me, actually giving Daniel credit. If you are really interested, well you can see some of those myths here.

https://www.catawbacountync.gov/library/gen/Weidner--Henry%20Memorial%20Service.pdf

You can check out Biggerstaff Fields here.

The Biggerstaff Plantation Hangings

thewilkesrecord.com

One more confused USMB-er?

Mention of myths wasn't about that part of your post.

I see English is more than just a second language back in the wilderness of your mind

 

[Winston]

One more confused USMB-er?

Mention of myths wasn't about that part of your post.

I see English is more than just a second language back in the wilderness of your mind

My entrance into this thread was to simply reflect on the fact that the real "myths", are the history we are taught in elementary school. The history politicians write children's books about. This country was not united behind the American Revolution. In fact, historians will tell you only about 15% of the population were Patriots.

We were more divided then than ever. At least the Civil War had some what of a geographical divide. Even now, "fly-over country", the coasts? In the Revolution it really was neighbor against neighbor, brother against brother. And it is no understatement, hundred of fueds were fought under the guise of "Revolution". Scores were settled with throats slit in the dead of night, fire bombing of homes

And did you say Nova Scotia? Well damn, howdy cuz.

Loyalists Migrate to Nova Scotia | History | Research Starters | EBSCO Research

<p>The migration of Loyalists to Nova Scotia occurred during and after the American Revolution, as individuals who remained faithful to the British Crown sought refuge from hostility in the newly independent United States. Estimated to be a significant portion of the population in the Thirteen...

www.ebsco.com

 

[Dante]

My entrance into this thread was to simply reflect on the fact that the real "myths", are the history we are taught in elementary school.

D'Oh!

Most rational adults had that one figured out by the time they had reached puberty

 

[Dante]

My entrance into this thread was to simply reflect on the fact that the real "myths", are the history we are taught in elementary school. The history politicians write children's books about. This country was not united behind the American Revolution. In fact, historians will tell you only about 15% of the population were Patriots.

We were more divided then than ever. At least the Civil War had some what of a geographical divide. Even now, "fly-over country", the coasts? In the Revolution it really was neighbor against neighbor, brother against brother. And it is no understatement, hundred of fueds were fought under the guise of "Revolution". Scores were settled with throats slit in the dead of night, fire bombing of homes

And did you say Nova Scotia? Well damn, howdy cuz.

Loyalists Migrate to Nova Scotia | History | Research Starters | EBSCO Research

<p>The migration of Loyalists to Nova Scotia occurred during and after the American Revolution, as individuals who remained faithful to the British Crown sought refuge from hostility in the newly independent United States. Estimated to be a significant portion of the population in the Thirteen...

www.ebsco.com

Now, I like this post

 

[mikegriffith1]

America's True Civil War: America, not the USA, but America. My own direct descendant on the male line (Surname) was a Loyalist. Not a traitor, but a Loyalist. Members of his own family line in the colonies fought alongside him, as well opposite him.

"Not a traitor"? Oh, boy.

BTW, Banastre Tarleton was a vicious war criminal who should have been hung or shot.