Watch older, thicker Arctic ice decline each week from 1990 to 2015

[skookerasbil]

Thunders MO has been consistent for years on here. Disappears for weeks and then comes back with pronounced levels of anger and misery. Because his side is losing and his head explodes thinking about it.( lol....how many years have they been posting up pictures of glaciers in an effort to move the football a 1/2 yard to the goalposts 1,000 miles away??!! )

Here we are 3 weeks out from Paris and nobody is caring.........its like it never happened. A gathering that needed to come away with agreement on trillions came away with agreement on a few billion. I cant stop laughing. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is worrying about 50 other things ahead of climate change = the science is mattering for dick. And this miserable jerkoff knows it too!!





[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/football-field-gridiron-sports-poster-print.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[skookerasbil]

oh and ps..............

[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/China%20coal.gif.html][/URL]



[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/clip_image0014_thumb.jpg.html][/URL]



All the pink giant font aint gonna change this for dick................who's not winning??!!!

 

[flacaltenn]

And yet globally the balance remains....

Why do left wing fruitcakes focus on one little region and ignore the bigger picture?

So what? What exactly do you imagine Antarctic sea ice extent has to do with the topic of this thread?

The thin fringe of sea ice, just five or ten feet thick, around a lage continent covered in miles thick ice sheets, has been increasing slightly in its maximum months in some recent years, but in its minimum months it has stayed fairly constant. Antarctic sea ice is increasing slightly now because of increased precipitation caused by increased atmospheric water content, that is itself caused by global warming. As the southern ocean continues to warm, scientists expect this Antarctic sea ice to diminish. It has little bearing on global warming or global climate changes, and NO bearing on the very rapid loss of old Arctic Ocean sea ice depicted in the OP.

How does Arctic sea ice loss compare to Antarctic sea ice gain?
(excerpts)
Arctic sea ice loss is three times greater than Antarctic sea ice gain. The first point to clarify is that we are talking about floating sea ice, not to be confused with land ice. Land ice at both poles and in glaciers around the world is sliding into the ocean at an accelerating rate. This net loss of land ice is contributing to sea level rise.

Figure 1: Global sea ice extent since 1979. (Image source: Tamino. Data is from US National Snow and Ice Data Center.)

Figure 2: National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) Antarctic, Arctic, and global (sum of the two) sea ice extents with linear trends. The data is smoothed with a 12-month running average.

Sea ice grows and shrinks seasonally because polar latitudes have vastly more daylight hours in summer than in winter. When ice melts, it makes the surface less reflective and amplifies the warming (as is currently occurring in the Arctic), but this effect can only make a difference when the Sun is up. Thus the most important time of year for sea ice is its annual minimum which occurs at the end of the summer: September in the Arctic but February in the Antarctic. So how do the two compare?

Figure 3: Minimum sea ice extent since 1979 in the Arctic and Antarctic. (Image source: James Hansen. Data is from US National Snow and Ice Data Center.)

I see you're still stuffing your face with SkepShitScience there TinkerBelle.. You need some newer and less crayoned material.. There ARE other sites on the interwebs ya know...

 

[PredFan]

NOAA recently put together some time lapse satellite photography using photos taken every week for the last 25 years by polar orbiting satellites. It provides a stunning look at the true extent of the Arctic ice loss over just the last two and a half decades. The ice there was even thicker and larger in the 1950s than in the 1990s, much more so, according to data from shipping and Naval records.

The Arctic is warming at several times the rate as the rest of the planet. This has major consequences for many Northern Hemisphere weather systems and patterns, as we have witnessed here in America in recent winters. The Arctic Ice Cap has already shrunk enormously in extent and thickness. The northern glaciers in Alaska and Asia are melting faster. Greenland is melting faster and scientists have determined that it has lost 9 trillion tonnes of ice in the last century, with most of the loss in the last 30 years, adding to sea level rise.

This article explains it all pretty clearly and contains two short NOAA videos about the ice at the North Pole. Be sure to watch at least the first video showing the ice over time.

The Arctic Ice is melting faster than the global average
The Marshalltown
BY TAYLOR AUSTEN
12 JANUARY 2016



The climate change in the Arctic has been at least twice as fast as the global average. So Arctic Ocean ice levels are in decline.

Now, US scientists prepares a new time laps to show how large ice packs which survive more than one summer are becoming less frequent occurrences.

The areal extent, concentration and thickness of sea ice in the Arctic Ocean and adjacent seas have strongly decreased during the recent decades, but cold, snow-rich winters have been common over mid-latitude land areas since 2005.

Each year sea ice in the Arctic Ocean builds up in the winter months and thin ice melts away during summer.

However, recently the change seems to be more dramatic. Old, multilayered icebergs are in decline and this visualization by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) makes everything clear related to how the Arctic is "warming faster than the global average."

Using satellite data, the video describes the decline of nine years or older ice packs from 1990 to 2015.

Sea ice in the Arctic can be characterized by areal extent, thickness, age, and movement.

The conditions on top of sea ice, such as the snow thickness and melt ponds, are alsoimportant. The oldest packs, shown in white, can be seen to deplete dramatically around 2008 amid the darkest blue seasonal ice.



According to the NOAA 2015 Arctic Report Card, last winter, - 'The spread of sea ice in the area was "the smallest on record" and the "melt season was 30 to 40 days longer than average" in the northern regions of Greenland'.

"Since the 1980s, the amount of multiyear ice has declined dramatically. In 1985, 20 percent of the ice pack was very old ice, but in March 2015 old ice only constituted three percent of the ice pack," it added.

The ice retreat is having an impact on wildlife, said the NOAA, changing the habitat for creatures such as walruses, who have to travel further for mating or birthing areas.

In September 2015, NASA reported that sea ice concentration was the fourth lowest on record since observations from space began.

If it's true, so what?

 

[RollingThunder]

NOAA recently put together some time lapse satellite photography using photos taken every week for the last 25 years by polar orbiting satellites. It provides a stunning look at the true extent of the Arctic ice loss over just the last two and a half decades. The ice there was even thicker and larger in the 1950s than in the 1990s, much more so, according to data from shipping and Naval records.

The Arctic is warming at several times the rate as the rest of the planet. This has major consequences for many Northern Hemisphere weather systems and patterns, as we have witnessed here in America in recent winters. The Arctic Ice Cap has already shrunk enormously in extent and thickness. The northern glaciers in Alaska and Asia are melting faster. Greenland is melting faster and scientists have determined that it has lost 9 trillion tonnes of ice in the last century, with most of the loss in the last 30 years, adding to sea level rise.

This article explains it all pretty clearly and contains two short NOAA videos about the ice at the North Pole. Be sure to watch at least the first video showing the ice over time.

The Arctic Ice is melting faster than the global average
The Marshalltown
BY TAYLOR AUSTEN
12 JANUARY 2016



The climate change in the Arctic has been at least twice as fast as the global average. So Arctic Ocean ice levels are in decline.

Now, US scientists prepares a new time laps to show how large ice packs which survive more than one summer are becoming less frequent occurrences.

The areal extent, concentration and thickness of sea ice in the Arctic Ocean and adjacent seas have strongly decreased during the recent decades, but cold, snow-rich winters have been common over mid-latitude land areas since 2005.

Each year sea ice in the Arctic Ocean builds up in the winter months and thin ice melts away during summer.

However, recently the change seems to be more dramatic. Old, multilayered icebergs are in decline and this visualization by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) makes everything clear related to how the Arctic is "warming faster than the global average."

Using satellite data, the video describes the decline of nine years or older ice packs from 1990 to 2015.

Sea ice in the Arctic can be characterized by areal extent, thickness, age, and movement.

The conditions on top of sea ice, such as the snow thickness and melt ponds, are alsoimportant. The oldest packs, shown in white, can be seen to deplete dramatically around 2008 amid the darkest blue seasonal ice.



According to the NOAA 2015 Arctic Report Card, last winter, - 'The spread of sea ice in the area was "the smallest on record" and the "melt season was 30 to 40 days longer than average" in the northern regions of Greenland'.

"Since the 1980s, the amount of multiyear ice has declined dramatically. In 1985, 20 percent of the ice pack was very old ice, but in March 2015 old ice only constituted three percent of the ice pack," it added.

The ice retreat is having an impact on wildlife, said the NOAA, changing the habitat for creatures such as walruses, who have to travel further for mating or birthing areas.

In September 2015, NASA reported that sea ice concentration was the fourth lowest on record since observations from space began.

Wowie Zowie. "Faster than the Global Average? " What's that?

The Arctic Ice is melting faster than the global average
That would be all of the Earth's ice.....all of the mountain glaciers and coastal glaciers, the Greenland ice sheets, the Antarctic ice sheets, plus the floating sea ice.

The TOTAL Sea Ice melt?

Nope! Your usual ignorant assumption.

And where is that? In the Arctic and Antarctic..

In the Antarctic, a thin fringe of seasonal floating sea ice that almost disappears at its minimum in the SH summer, surrounds a continent covered in miles thick ice sheets. When Antarctic sea ice is at its minimum and almost disappears, the enormously greater volume of land based ice is still there. In the Arctic, when the floating sea ice melts away, nothing is left but open ocean.


Sea ice climatologies: Arctic and Antarctic sea ice concentration climatology from 1981-2010, at the approximate seasonal maximum and minimum levels based on passive microwave satellite data. Image provided by National Snow and Ice Data Center, University of Colorado, Boulder.

But more importantly TinkerBelle -- HOW THICK is "multi-year Arctic sea ice" ?? Pictures of 400Ft thick glaciers come to mind. But they are not "sea ice".. The multi year ice in the Arctic Ocean is about 2 to 8 ft thick.

Well, shit4brains, you're wrong. As usual.

State of the Cryosphere - Sea Ice
The National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC)
DECLINE IN ARCTIC SEA ICE EXTENT
Passive microwave satellite data reveal that, since 1979, winter Arctic ice extent has decreased about 3 to 4 percent per decade (Meier et al. 2006). The Arctic sea ice September minimum extent reached a new record low in 2012 of 3.41 million square kilometers, 44 percent below the 1981-2010 average, and 16 percent below the previous record in 2007. Over the last 13 years, a new record was set four times (2002, 2005, 2007, and 2012) and several other years saw near-record lows, particularly 2008 and 2011. As NSIDC reported in October 2015, the nine lowest September ice extents over the satellite record have all occurred in the last nine years.

DECLINE IN ARCTIC SEA ICE THICKNESS
Sea ice thickness likewise showed substantial decline in the latter half of the 20th century (Rothrock et al. 1999). Using data from submarine cruises, Rothrock and collaborators determined that the mean ice draft (the ice extending below the water surface) at the end of the melt season in the Arctic decreased by about 1.3 meters between the 1950s and the 1990s.

Estimates based on measurements taken by NASA's ICESat laser altimeter, first-year ice that formed after the autumn of 2007 had a mean thickness of 1.6 meters. The ice formed relatively late in the autumn of 2007. NSIDC researchers had actually anticipated this first-year ice to be thinner, but it nearly equaled the thickness of 2006 and 2007. Snow accumulation on sea ice helps insulate the ice from frigid air overhead, so sparse snowfall during the winter of 2007-2008 might have actually accelerated the sea ice's growth.

A recent study examined sea ice thickness records from submarines and ICESat observations from 1958 to 2008 (Kwok and Rothrock 2009). Examining 42 years of submarine records (1958 to 2000), and a five years of ICESat records (2003 to 2008), the authors determined that mean Arctic sea ice thickness declined from 3.64 meters in 1980 to 1.89 meters in 2008—a decline of 1.75 meters. A study published in 2013 compared sea ice volume between two periods: 2003-2008 and 2010-2012. The researchers used data from ICESat, the Pan-Arctic Ice-Ocean Modelling and Assimilation System (PIOMAS) and the European Space Agency CryoSat-2 mission, and found that sea ice volume declined by 4,291 cubic kilometers at the end of summer, and 1,479 cubic kilometers at the end of winter (Laxon et al. 2013). CryoSat-2 continues to monitor sea ice thickness as researchers refine study methods (Ricker et al. 2014).

Sea ice thickness and sea ice age are not the same thing, but sea ice age provides a proxy for thickness. A study published in 2007 found a dramatic change in the age of sea ice in the central Arctic Basin since the mid-1980s. In 1987, 57 percent of the ice pack was at least five years old, and a quarter of that ice was at least nine years old. By 2007, only 7 percent of the ice pack was at least five years old, and virtually none of the ice was at least nine years old (Maslanik et al, 2007). Multiyear ice coverage actually increased between March 2013 and March 2014, thanks to more ice surviving the summer melt season than had survived in the record-breaking summer of 2012. But overall, multiyear sea ice continues to decline in the Arctic (Perovich et al. 2014).

And at that thickness -- could be REGENERATED in a decade or so.. It is NOT a permanent condition even IF the multi year ice is now in decline..

You live in such a crackpot fantasy world, fecalhead.

The Earth is rapidly warming up and the Arctic is warming even faster. Scientists expect an essentially ice free Arctic within decades. Just how do you moronically imagine that the old thick Arctic ice is going to get magically "REGENERATED"? Like EVER in our lifetimes, you poor sad imbecile, let alone "in a decade or so"?

 

[flacaltenn]

NOAA recently put together some time lapse satellite photography using photos taken every week for the last 25 years by polar orbiting satellites. It provides a stunning look at the true extent of the Arctic ice loss over just the last two and a half decades. The ice there was even thicker and larger in the 1950s than in the 1990s, much more so, according to data from shipping and Naval records.

The Arctic is warming at several times the rate as the rest of the planet. This has major consequences for many Northern Hemisphere weather systems and patterns, as we have witnessed here in America in recent winters. The Arctic Ice Cap has already shrunk enormously in extent and thickness. The northern glaciers in Alaska and Asia are melting faster. Greenland is melting faster and scientists have determined that it has lost 9 trillion tonnes of ice in the last century, with most of the loss in the last 30 years, adding to sea level rise.

This article explains it all pretty clearly and contains two short NOAA videos about the ice at the North Pole. Be sure to watch at least the first video showing the ice over time.

The Arctic Ice is melting faster than the global average
The Marshalltown
BY TAYLOR AUSTEN
12 JANUARY 2016



The climate change in the Arctic has been at least twice as fast as the global average. So Arctic Ocean ice levels are in decline.

Now, US scientists prepares a new time laps to show how large ice packs which survive more than one summer are becoming less frequent occurrences.

The areal extent, concentration and thickness of sea ice in the Arctic Ocean and adjacent seas have strongly decreased during the recent decades, but cold, snow-rich winters have been common over mid-latitude land areas since 2005.

Each year sea ice in the Arctic Ocean builds up in the winter months and thin ice melts away during summer.

However, recently the change seems to be more dramatic. Old, multilayered icebergs are in decline and this visualization by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) makes everything clear related to how the Arctic is "warming faster than the global average."

Using satellite data, the video describes the decline of nine years or older ice packs from 1990 to 2015.

Sea ice in the Arctic can be characterized by areal extent, thickness, age, and movement.

The conditions on top of sea ice, such as the snow thickness and melt ponds, are alsoimportant. The oldest packs, shown in white, can be seen to deplete dramatically around 2008 amid the darkest blue seasonal ice.



According to the NOAA 2015 Arctic Report Card, last winter, - 'The spread of sea ice in the area was "the smallest on record" and the "melt season was 30 to 40 days longer than average" in the northern regions of Greenland'.

"Since the 1980s, the amount of multiyear ice has declined dramatically. In 1985, 20 percent of the ice pack was very old ice, but in March 2015 old ice only constituted three percent of the ice pack," it added.

The ice retreat is having an impact on wildlife, said the NOAA, changing the habitat for creatures such as walruses, who have to travel further for mating or birthing areas.

In September 2015, NASA reported that sea ice concentration was the fourth lowest on record since observations from space began.

Wowie Zowie. "Faster than the Global Average? " What's that?

The Arctic Ice is melting faster than the global average
That would be all of the Earth's ice.....all of the mountain glaciers and coastal glaciers, the Greenland ice sheets, the Antarctic ice sheets, plus the floating sea ice.

The TOTAL Sea Ice melt?

Nope! Your usual ignorant assumption.

And where is that? In the Arctic and Antarctic..

In the Antarctic, a thin fringe of seasonal floating sea ice that almost disappears at its minimum in the SH summer, surrounds a continent covered in miles thick ice sheets. When Antarctic sea ice is at its minimum and almost disappears, the enormously greater volume of land based ice is still there. In the Arctic, when the floating sea ice melts away, nothing is left but open ocean.


Sea ice climatologies: Arctic and Antarctic sea ice concentration climatology from 1981-2010, at the approximate seasonal maximum and minimum levels based on passive microwave satellite data. Image provided by National Snow and Ice Data Center, University of Colorado, Boulder.

But more importantly TinkerBelle -- HOW THICK is "multi-year Arctic sea ice" ?? Pictures of 400Ft thick glaciers come to mind. But they are not "sea ice".. The multi year ice in the Arctic Ocean is about 2 to 8 ft thick.

Well, shit4brains, you're wrong. As usual.

State of the Cryosphere - Sea Ice
The National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC)
DECLINE IN ARCTIC SEA ICE EXTENT
Passive microwave satellite data reveal that, since 1979, winter Arctic ice extent has decreased about 3 to 4 percent per decade (Meier et al. 2006). The Arctic sea ice September minimum extent reached a new record low in 2012 of 3.41 million square kilometers, 44 percent below the 1981-2010 average, and 16 percent below the previous record in 2007. Over the last 13 years, a new record was set four times (2002, 2005, 2007, and 2012) and several other years saw near-record lows, particularly 2008 and 2011. As NSIDC reported in October 2015, the nine lowest September ice extents over the satellite record have all occurred in the last nine years.

DECLINE IN ARCTIC SEA ICE THICKNESS
Sea ice thickness likewise showed substantial decline in the latter half of the 20th century (Rothrock et al. 1999). Using data from submarine cruises, Rothrock and collaborators determined that the mean ice draft (the ice extending below the water surface) at the end of the melt season in the Arctic decreased by about 1.3 meters between the 1950s and the 1990s.

Estimates based on measurements taken by NASA's ICESat laser altimeter, first-year ice that formed after the autumn of 2007 had a mean thickness of 1.6 meters. The ice formed relatively late in the autumn of 2007. NSIDC researchers had actually anticipated this first-year ice to be thinner, but it nearly equaled the thickness of 2006 and 2007. Snow accumulation on sea ice helps insulate the ice from frigid air overhead, so sparse snowfall during the winter of 2007-2008 might have actually accelerated the sea ice's growth.

A recent study examined sea ice thickness records from submarines and ICESat observations from 1958 to 2008 (Kwok and Rothrock 2009). Examining 42 years of submarine records (1958 to 2000), and a five years of ICESat records (2003 to 2008), the authors determined that mean Arctic sea ice thickness declined from 3.64 meters in 1980 to 1.89 meters in 2008—a decline of 1.75 meters. A study published in 2013 compared sea ice volume between two periods: 2003-2008 and 2010-2012. The researchers used data from ICESat, the Pan-Arctic Ice-Ocean Modelling and Assimilation System (PIOMAS) and the European Space Agency CryoSat-2 mission, and found that sea ice volume declined by 4,291 cubic kilometers at the end of summer, and 1,479 cubic kilometers at the end of winter (Laxon et al. 2013). CryoSat-2 continues to monitor sea ice thickness as researchers refine study methods (Ricker et al. 2014).

Sea ice thickness and sea ice age are not the same thing, but sea ice age provides a proxy for thickness. A study published in 2007 found a dramatic change in the age of sea ice in the central Arctic Basin since the mid-1980s. In 1987, 57 percent of the ice pack was at least five years old, and a quarter of that ice was at least nine years old. By 2007, only 7 percent of the ice pack was at least five years old, and virtually none of the ice was at least nine years old (Maslanik et al, 2007). Multiyear ice coverage actually increased between March 2013 and March 2014, thanks to more ice surviving the summer melt season than had survived in the record-breaking summer of 2012. But overall, multiyear sea ice continues to decline in the Arctic (Perovich et al. 2014).

And at that thickness -- could be REGENERATED in a decade or so.. It is NOT a permanent condition even IF the multi year ice is now in decline..

You live in such a crackpot fantasy world, fecalhead.

The Earth is rapidly warming up and the Arctic is warming even faster. Scientists expect an essentially ice free Arctic within decades. Just how do you moronically imagine that the old thick Arctic ice is going to get magically "REGENERATED"? Like EVER in our lifetimes, you poor sad imbecile, let alone "in a decade or so"?

You are a moron TinkerBelle. Certifiably. There was NO explanation of WHAT Global Average the Arctic Ice was "melting faster than".. Didn't specify whether it was sea ice, ice cream or the Global marmot population. Wouldn't make ANY sense at all to compare the melt to ALL ice on the planet. If you THINK that's the case, you shouldn't be trying to read this stuff and are a boob.

Secondly, you farted out a HUGE BIG FONT display of ignorance on the thickness of Arctic Sea Ice. And DESPITE your anal retentive colorings and sizes --- it did not DISPUTE AT ALL my assertion that MOST multi-year was about 2 to 8 ft thick. In fact --- one of the guys you quoted -- but did not understand was MY SOURCE for that claim..

It's the EXACT SAME WORK you quoted Tinkerbelle.. That's how stupid you are... You want to argue with me about stuff that you SUPPOSEDLY READ AND UNDERSTOOD.

Except you don't read it for understanding. You read it because it SOUNDS good in LARGE FONT...
So all your whining and blabbering refuted nothing. Not even the personal insults helped you score a point..
And as it SAYS in the crap you did quote. You can EASILY regenerate 2 - 4 ft of Arctic sea ice in a SINGLE DECADE..

You're just programmed to be confrontational and stupid. The latter stems from the time you spend at skepshitscience learning how to debate skeptics. You'd be MUCH smarter to start THINKING about you post and less time formatting it for maximum eyebleed.

 

[skookerasbil]

Can somebody please show us where the science is mattering in the real world?????

 

[RollingThunder]

NOAA recently put together some time lapse satellite photography using photos taken every week for the last 25 years by polar orbiting satellites. It provides a stunning look at the true extent of the Arctic ice loss over just the last two and a half decades. The ice there was even thicker and larger in the 1950s than in the 1990s, much more so, according to data from shipping and Naval records.

The Arctic is warming at several times the rate as the rest of the planet. This has major consequences for many Northern Hemisphere weather systems and patterns, as we have witnessed here in America in recent winters. The Arctic Ice Cap has already shrunk enormously in extent and thickness. The northern glaciers in Alaska and Asia are melting faster. Greenland is melting faster and scientists have determined that it has lost 9 trillion tonnes of ice in the last century, with most of the loss in the last 30 years, adding to sea level rise.

This article explains it all pretty clearly and contains two short NOAA videos about the ice at the North Pole. Be sure to watch at least the first video showing the ice over time.

The Arctic Ice is melting faster than the global average
The Marshalltown
BY TAYLOR AUSTEN
12 JANUARY 2016



The climate change in the Arctic has been at least twice as fast as the global average. So Arctic Ocean ice levels are in decline.

Now, US scientists prepares a new time laps to show how large ice packs which survive more than one summer are becoming less frequent occurrences.

The areal extent, concentration and thickness of sea ice in the Arctic Ocean and adjacent seas have strongly decreased during the recent decades, but cold, snow-rich winters have been common over mid-latitude land areas since 2005.

Each year sea ice in the Arctic Ocean builds up in the winter months and thin ice melts away during summer.

However, recently the change seems to be more dramatic. Old, multilayered icebergs are in decline and this visualization by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) makes everything clear related to how the Arctic is "warming faster than the global average."

Using satellite data, the video describes the decline of nine years or older ice packs from 1990 to 2015.

Sea ice in the Arctic can be characterized by areal extent, thickness, age, and movement.

The conditions on top of sea ice, such as the snow thickness and melt ponds, are alsoimportant. The oldest packs, shown in white, can be seen to deplete dramatically around 2008 amid the darkest blue seasonal ice.



According to the NOAA 2015 Arctic Report Card, last winter, - 'The spread of sea ice in the area was "the smallest on record" and the "melt season was 30 to 40 days longer than average" in the northern regions of Greenland'.

"Since the 1980s, the amount of multiyear ice has declined dramatically. In 1985, 20 percent of the ice pack was very old ice, but in March 2015 old ice only constituted three percent of the ice pack," it added.

The ice retreat is having an impact on wildlife, said the NOAA, changing the habitat for creatures such as walruses, who have to travel further for mating or birthing areas.

In September 2015, NASA reported that sea ice concentration was the fourth lowest on record since observations from space began.

Wowie Zowie. "Faster than the Global Average? " What's that?

The Arctic Ice is melting faster than the global average
That would be all of the Earth's ice.....all of the mountain glaciers and coastal glaciers, the Greenland ice sheets, the Antarctic ice sheets, plus the floating sea ice.

The TOTAL Sea Ice melt?

Nope! Your usual ignorant assumption.

And where is that? In the Arctic and Antarctic..

In the Antarctic, a thin fringe of seasonal floating sea ice that almost disappears at its minimum in the SH summer, surrounds a continent covered in miles thick ice sheets. When Antarctic sea ice is at its minimum and almost disappears, the enormously greater volume of land based ice is still there. In the Arctic, when the floating sea ice melts away, nothing is left but open ocean.


Sea ice climatologies: Arctic and Antarctic sea ice concentration climatology from 1981-2010, at the approximate seasonal maximum and minimum levels based on passive microwave satellite data. Image provided by National Snow and Ice Data Center, University of Colorado, Boulder.

But more importantly TinkerBelle -- HOW THICK is "multi-year Arctic sea ice" ?? Pictures of 400Ft thick glaciers come to mind. But they are not "sea ice".. The multi year ice in the Arctic Ocean is about 2 to 8 ft thick.

Well, shit4brains, you're wrong. As usual.

State of the Cryosphere - Sea Ice
The National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC)
DECLINE IN ARCTIC SEA ICE EXTENT
Passive microwave satellite data reveal that, since 1979, winter Arctic ice extent has decreased about 3 to 4 percent per decade (Meier et al. 2006). The Arctic sea ice September minimum extent reached a new record low in 2012 of 3.41 million square kilometers, 44 percent below the 1981-2010 average, and 16 percent below the previous record in 2007. Over the last 13 years, a new record was set four times (2002, 2005, 2007, and 2012) and several other years saw near-record lows, particularly 2008 and 2011. As NSIDC reported in October 2015, the nine lowest September ice extents over the satellite record have all occurred in the last nine years.

DECLINE IN ARCTIC SEA ICE THICKNESS
Sea ice thickness likewise showed substantial decline in the latter half of the 20th century (Rothrock et al. 1999). Using data from submarine cruises, Rothrock and collaborators determined that the mean ice draft (the ice extending below the water surface) at the end of the melt season in the Arctic decreased by about 1.3 meters between the 1950s and the 1990s.

Estimates based on measurements taken by NASA's ICESat laser altimeter, first-year ice that formed after the autumn of 2007 had a mean thickness of 1.6 meters. The ice formed relatively late in the autumn of 2007. NSIDC researchers had actually anticipated this first-year ice to be thinner, but it nearly equaled the thickness of 2006 and 2007. Snow accumulation on sea ice helps insulate the ice from frigid air overhead, so sparse snowfall during the winter of 2007-2008 might have actually accelerated the sea ice's growth.

A recent study examined sea ice thickness records from submarines and ICESat observations from 1958 to 2008 (Kwok and Rothrock 2009). Examining 42 years of submarine records (1958 to 2000), and a five years of ICESat records (2003 to 2008), the authors determined that mean Arctic sea ice thickness declined from 3.64 meters in 1980 to 1.89 meters in 2008—a decline of 1.75 meters. A study published in 2013 compared sea ice volume between two periods: 2003-2008 and 2010-2012. The researchers used data from ICESat, the Pan-Arctic Ice-Ocean Modelling and Assimilation System (PIOMAS) and the European Space Agency CryoSat-2 mission, and found that sea ice volume declined by 4,291 cubic kilometers at the end of summer, and 1,479 cubic kilometers at the end of winter (Laxon et al. 2013). CryoSat-2 continues to monitor sea ice thickness as researchers refine study methods (Ricker et al. 2014).

Sea ice thickness and sea ice age are not the same thing, but sea ice age provides a proxy for thickness. A study published in 2007 found a dramatic change in the age of sea ice in the central Arctic Basin since the mid-1980s. In 1987, 57 percent of the ice pack was at least five years old, and a quarter of that ice was at least nine years old. By 2007, only 7 percent of the ice pack was at least five years old, and virtually none of the ice was at least nine years old (Maslanik et al, 2007). Multiyear ice coverage actually increased between March 2013 and March 2014, thanks to more ice surviving the summer melt season than had survived in the record-breaking summer of 2012. But overall, multiyear sea ice continues to decline in the Arctic (Perovich et al. 2014).

And at that thickness -- could be REGENERATED in a decade or so.. It is NOT a permanent condition even IF the multi year ice is now in decline..

You live in such a crackpot fantasy world, fecalhead.

The Earth is rapidly warming up and the Arctic is warming even faster. Scientists expect an essentially ice free Arctic within decades. Just how do you moronically imagine that the old thick Arctic ice is going to get magically "REGENERATED"? Like EVER in our lifetimes, you poor sad imbecile, let alone "in a decade or so"?

You are a moron TinkerBelle. Certifiably. There was NO explanation of WHAT Global Average the Arctic Ice was "melting faster than".. Didn't specify whether it was sea ice, ice cream or the Global marmot population. Wouldn't make ANY sense at all to compare the melt to ALL ice on the planet. If you THINK that's the case, you shouldn't be trying to read this stuff and are a boob.

Ignorant, retarded bullshit! What "makes sense" to you is a meaningless measurement of reality because you are an ignorant, delusional imbecile.

Secondly....on the thickness of Arctic Sea Ice....it did not DISPUTE AT ALL my assertion that MOST multi-year was about 2 to 8 ft thick. In fact --- one of the guys you quoted -- but did not understand was MY SOURCE for that claim..

You are so insane, shit4brains.

You show charts of ice thickness but you are too stupid to notice that the scale is measured in "METERS", not 'feet'. Talk about "not understanding" what you read! You flaming imbecile!

Meanwhile, in the real world...

History of sea ice in the Arctic
Quaternary Science Reviews
University of Massachusetts
2. Background on Arctic sea-ice cover
2.1. Ice extent, thickness, drift, and duration
The thickness of sea ice, which varies markedly in both space and time, can be described by a probability distribution. For the Arctic Ocean as a whole, the peak of this distribution has been typically cited at about 3 m (close to 10 feet) (Williams et al., 1975; Wadhams, 1980), but there is growing evidence (discussed below) that shrinking ice extent over recent decades has been attended by substantial thinning. Although many different types of sea ice can be defined, the two basic categories are: (1) first-year ice, which represents a single year’s growth, and (2) multi-year ice, which has survived one or more melt seasons (Weeks and Ackley, 1986). New ice forms during autumn in seasonally open water, mostly over continental shelves, and is then transported into the central Arctic basin, and can thicken through bottom growth. Undeformed first-year ice can reach as much as 1.5–2 m (5 - 6.5 feet) in thickness. Although multi-year ice is generally thicker, first-year ice that undergoes convergence and/or shear can produce ridges as thick as 20–30 m (65 - 100 feet).

 

[flacaltenn]

You show charts of ice thickness but you are too stupid to notice that the scale is measured in "METERS", not 'feet'. Talk about "not understanding" what you read! You flaming imbecile!

Excuse me??

Not nimble enough with those 5th grade metric conversions??

You're like a flaming gaff machine.. A laugh track.. EVERYTHING I asserted was correct. Not only was it CORRECT. But it was backed up by the very source you posted.

Think you need this link for your homework. www.khanacademy.org
We'll have you doing fractions in no time..

 

[RollingThunder]

But more importantly - HOW THICK is "multi-year Arctic sea ice" ?? The multi year ice in the Arctic Ocean is about 2 to 8 ft thick.

Well, shit4brains, you're wrong. As usual.

State of the Cryosphere - Sea Ice
The National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC)
DECLINE IN ARCTIC SEA ICE THICKNESS
Sea ice thickness likewise showed substantial decline in the latter half of the 20th century (Rothrock et al. 1999). Estimates based on measurements taken by NASA's ICESat laser altimeter, first-year ice that formed after the autumn of 2007 had a mean (average) thickness of 1.6 meters (5.24 feet).

A recent study examined sea ice thickness records from submarines and ICESat observations from 1958 to 2008 (Kwok and Rothrock 2009). Examining 42 years of submarine records (1958 to 2000), and a five years of ICESat records (2003 to 2008), the authors determined that mean Arctic sea ice thickness declined from 3.64 meters (12 feet) in 1980 to 1.89 meters (6 feet) in 2008—a decline of 1.75 meters (5.75 feet).

Sea ice thickness and sea ice age are not the same thing, but sea ice age provides a proxy for thickness. A study published in 2007 found a dramatic change in the age of sea ice in the central Arctic Basin since the mid-1980s. In 1987, 57 percent of the ice pack was at least five years old, and a quarter of that ice was at least nine years old. By 2007, only 7 percent of the ice pack was at least five years old, and virtually none of the ice was at least nine years old (Maslanik et al, 2007). Multiyear ice coverage actually increased between March 2013 and March 2014, thanks to more ice surviving the summer melt season than had survived in the record-breaking summer of 2012. But overall, multiyear sea ice continues to decline in the Arctic (Perovich et al. 2014).

And at that thickness -- could be REGENERATED in a decade or so.. It is NOT a permanent condition even IF the multi year ice is now in decline..

You live in such a crackpot fantasy world, fecalhead.

The Earth is rapidly warming up and the Arctic is warming even faster. Scientists expect an essentially ice free Arctic within decades. Just how do you moronically imagine that the old thick Arctic ice is going to get magically "REGENERATED"? Like EVER in our lifetimes, you poor sad imbecile, let alone "in a decade or so"?

it did not DISPUTE AT ALL my assertion that MOST multi-year was about 2 to 8 ft thick. In fact --- one of the guys you quoted -- but did not understand was MY SOURCE for that claim..

It's the EXACT SAME WORK you quoted Tinkerbelle.. That's how stupid you are... You want to argue with me about stuff that you SUPPOSEDLY READ AND UNDERSTOOD.

You are so insane, shit4brains.

You show charts of ice thickness but you are too stupid to notice that the scale is measured in "METERS", not 'feet'. Talk about "not understanding" what you read! You flaming imbecile!

Meanwhile, in the real world...

History of sea ice in the Arctic
Quaternary Science Reviews
University of Massachusetts
2. Background on Arctic sea-ice cover
2.1. Ice extent, thickness, drift, and duration
The thickness of sea ice, which varies markedly in both space and time, can be described by a probability distribution. For the Arctic Ocean as a whole, the peak of this distribution has been typically cited at about 3 m (close to 10 feet) (Williams et al., 1975; Wadhams, 1980), but there is growing evidence (discussed below) that shrinking ice extent over recent decades has been attended by substantial thinning. Although many different types of sea ice can be defined, the two basic categories are: (1) first-year ice, which represents a single year’s growth, and (2) multi-year ice, which has survived one or more melt seasons (Weeks and Ackley, 1986). New ice forms during autumn in seasonally open water, mostly over continental shelves, and is then transported into the central Arctic basin, and can thicken through bottom growth. Undeformed first-year ice can reach as much as 1.5–2 m (5 - 6.5 feet) in thickness. Although multi-year ice is generally thicker, first-year ice that undergoes convergence and/or shear can produce ridges as thick as 20–30 m (65 - 100 feet).

EVERYTHING I asserted was correct. Not only was it CORRECT. But it was backed up by the very source you posted.

Well, that makes you kind of delusional then, I guess. Or perhaps just completely insane.

The charts of sea ice thickness you posted are using 'meters', not 'feet', you poor deluded fool. They actually show Arctic sea ice thickness as ranging between about six and a half meters to fourteen meters - or about 21 feet to 46 feet.

You weren't "CORRECT", you were retarded. Everything you "asserted was simply wrong. It was not "backed up by" my sources. You really are both delusional and insane. You started off 'asserting' that "the multi year ice in the Arctic Ocean is about 2 to 8 ft thick.", which is moronic bullcrap. First year ice is almost that thick. Multi year ice can get much, much thicker than that and ridges over a hundred feet thick have been observed. Of course, the multi year ice is vanishing now and is currently much thinner than it used to be just six or seven decades ago.

You just made a fool of yourself again with your obstinate, reality-denying, anti-science, delusional refusal to admit you were wrong. Get it through your thick skull - YOU WERE WRONG!!!

 

[Old Rocks]

And yet globally the balance remains....

Why do left wing fruitcakes focus on one little region and ignore the bigger picture?

So what? What exactly do you imagine Antarctic sea ice extent has to do with the topic of this thread?

The thin fringe of sea ice, just five or ten feet thick, around a lage continent covered in miles thick ice sheets, has been increasing slightly in its maximum months in some recent years, but in its minimum months it has stayed fairly constant. Antarctic sea ice is increasing slightly now because of increased precipitation caused by increased atmospheric water content, that is itself caused by global warming. As the southern ocean continues to warm, scientists expect this Antarctic sea ice to diminish. It has little bearing on global warming or global climate changes, and NO bearing on the very rapid loss of old Arctic Ocean sea ice depicted in the OP.

How does Arctic sea ice loss compare to Antarctic sea ice gain?
(excerpts)
Arctic sea ice loss is three times greater than Antarctic sea ice gain. The first point to clarify is that we are talking about floating sea ice, not to be confused with land ice. Land ice at both poles and in glaciers around the world is sliding into the ocean at an accelerating rate. This net loss of land ice is contributing to sea level rise.

Figure 1: Global sea ice extent since 1979. (Image source: Tamino. Data is from US National Snow and Ice Data Center.)

Figure 2: National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) Antarctic, Arctic, and global (sum of the two) sea ice extents with linear trends. The data is smoothed with a 12-month running average.

Sea ice grows and shrinks seasonally because polar latitudes have vastly more daylight hours in summer than in winter. When ice melts, it makes the surface less reflective and amplifies the warming (as is currently occurring in the Arctic), but this effect can only make a difference when the Sun is up. Thus the most important time of year for sea ice is its annual minimum which occurs at the end of the summer: September in the Arctic but February in the Antarctic. So how do the two compare?

Figure 3: Minimum sea ice extent since 1979 in the Arctic and Antarctic. (Image source: James Hansen. Data is from US National Snow and Ice Data Center.)

I see you're still stuffing your face with SkepShitScience there TinkerBelle.. You need some newer and less crayoned material.. There ARE other sites on the interwebs ya know...

Now that is damned dishonest of you to post that particular graph. Because the present reading is -0.200

 

[Old Rocks]

​

Fig.1 Arctic sea ice volume anomaly from PIOMAS updated once a month. Daily Sea Ice volume anomalies for each day are computed relative to the 1979 to 2014 average for that day of the year. Tickmarks on time axis refer to 1st day of year. The trend for the period 1979- present is shown in blue. Shaded areas show one and two standard deviations from the trend. Error bars indicate the uncertainty of the monthly anomaly plotted once per year.



[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Polar Science Center » PIOMAS Arctic Sea Ice Volume Reanalysis
Pretty damned steady decline.[/FONT]

 

[flacaltenn]

it did not DISPUTE AT ALL my assertion that MOST multi-year was about 2 to 8 ft thick. In fact --- one of the guys you quoted -- but did not understand was MY SOURCE for that claim..

It's the EXACT SAME WORK you quoted Tinkerbelle.. That's how stupid you are... You want to argue with me about stuff that you SUPPOSEDLY READ AND UNDERSTOOD.

You are so insane, shit4brains.

You show charts of ice thickness but you are too stupid to notice that the scale is measured in "METERS", not 'feet'. Talk about "not understanding" what you read! You flaming imbecile!

Well, that makes you kind of delusional then, I guess. Or perhaps just completely insane.

The charts of sea ice thickness you posted are using 'meters', not 'feet', you poor deluded fool. They actually show Arctic sea ice thickness as ranging between about six and a half meters to fourteen meters - or about 21 feet to 46 feet.

You weren't "CORRECT", you were retarded. Everything you "asserted was simply wrong. It was not "backed up by" my sources. You really are both delusional and insane. You started off 'asserting' that "the multi year ice in the Arctic Ocean is about 2 to 8 ft thick.", which is moronic bullcrap. First year ice is almost that thick. Multi year ice can get much, much thicker than that and ridges over a hundred feet thick have been observed. Of course, the multi year ice is vanishing now and is currently much thinner than it used to be just six or seven decades ago.

You just made a fool of yourself again with your obstinate, reality-denying, anti-science, delusional refusal to admit you were wrong. Get it through your thick skull - YOU WERE WRONG!!!

I'm trying to control my beastly instincts to embarrass and flame the hell out of you.. You picked a fight that makes you look stupid.. Instead -- I'll just mark it up to you not truly being qualified to read a graph. Same CRAG (cantreadagraph) epidemic that seems to plague most of our warmers here. And I PITY you for being belligerent and nasty about YOUR misunderstandings. How's that?

Two graphs to the right are "FREQUENCY DISTRIBUTIONS" %population vs meters" with METERS being the x axis or independent variable. Otherwise known in science math as a single variant HISTOGRAM..

YOU have read the vertical graph numbers at the peak distribution to be METERS -- and that is incorrect.
The PEAK FREQUENCIES are about 8 to 14PERCENT.. Not Meters..

And they correspond to only 2 to 2.5 meters. So no YELLING. NO BIG FONT. No assholes...

I'll only tell you that your only salvation is to join the other 5th graders at www.khanacademy.org and learn to READ these science papers that you splash up here and understand them BEFORE you get all beasty with guys like me..

 

[RollingThunder]

The claim that old multi-year Arctic sea ice is only 2 to 8 feet thick is quite bogus, as this scientific data makes very clear. The Arctic ice cap was even thicker in the 1950s, and this study looks at the decline in ice thickness starting in 1975. They found that the AVERAGE ice thickness in 1975 was about 12 feet, and that is after averaging in all of the thin first year ice. Much, much thicker clumps of multi-year ice were very common decades ago, but most of the ice has now thinned considerably.

The notion that the Arctic ice cap is going to magically "regenerate" all of the lost ice volume and extent at a time when the Earth is still rapidly warming, is absolutely insane, but very typical of reality-challenged denier cult delusions.

New data on sea ice thickness
National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC)


Figure 4. This map shows sea ice thickness in meters in the Arctic Ocean from March 29, 2015 to April 25, 2015.
Credit: Center for Polar Observation and Modelling, University College London - High-resolution image

Data from new sensors, combined with older sources, are providing a more complete picture of ice thickness changes across the Arctic. In a recently published paper, R. Lindsay and A. Schweiger provide a longer-term view of ice thickness, compiling a variety of subsurface, aircraft, and satellite observations. They found that ice thickness over the central Arctic Ocean has declined from an average of 3.59 meters (11.78 feet) to only 1.25 meters (4.10 feet), a reduction of 65% over the period 1975 to 2012.

Ice more than 3.5 meters (11.5 feet) thick is [currently] found off the coast of Greenland and the Canadian Archipelago, and scattered regions of 3-meter (10 feet) thick ice extend across the Beaufort and Chukchi seas. Elsewhere, most of the ice is 1.5 to 2.0 meters (4.9 to 6.6 feet) thick, typical for first-year ice at the end of winter.

 

[flacaltenn]

The claim that old multi-year Arctic sea ice is only 2 to 8 feet thick is quite bogus, as this scientific data makes very clear. The Arctic ice cap was even thicker in the 1950s, and this study looks at the decline in ice thickness starting in 1975. They found that the AVERAGE ice thickness in 1975 was about 12 feet, and that is after averaging in all of the thin first year ice. Much, much thicker clumps of multi-year ice were very common decades ago, but most of the ice has now thinned considerably.

The notion that the Arctic ice cap is going to magically "regenerate" all of the lost ice volume and extent at a time when the Earth is still rapidly warming, is absolutely insane, but very typical of reality-challenged denier cult delusions.

New data on sea ice thickness
National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC)


Figure 4. This map shows sea ice thickness in meters in the Arctic Ocean from March 29, 2015 to April 25, 2015.
Credit: Center for Polar Observation and Modelling, University College London - High-resolution image

Data from new sensors, combined with older sources, are providing a more complete picture of ice thickness changes across the Arctic. In a recently published paper, R. Lindsay and A. Schweiger provide a longer-term view of ice thickness, compiling a variety of subsurface, aircraft, and satellite observations. They found that ice thickness over the central Arctic Ocean has declined from an average of 3.59 meters (11.78 feet) to only 1.25 meters (4.10 feet), a reduction of 65% over the period 1975 to 2012.

Ice more than 3.5 meters (11.5 feet) thick is [currently] found off the coast of Greenland and the Canadian Archipelago, and scattered regions of 3-meter (10 feet) thick ice extend across the Beaufort and Chukchi seas. Elsewhere, most of the ice is 1.5 to 2.0 meters (4.9 to 6.6 feet) thick, typical for first-year ice at the end of winter.

Well there ya go.. Now we're discussing the same data..

Only problem with cranking about what the distribution of sea ice thickness WAS in 1979 -- is that it wasn't accurately surveyed to any reliable level until at LEAST the late 80s.

We KNOW that there are multi-decadal cycles of SIce growth and decline in the Arctic. We just haven't been measuring long enough to quantify them. SUMMER arctic sea ice may be doomed in a warming world, but as long as it stills snows in the Arctic Ocean -- there will plenty of SIce most of the year.

 

[flacaltenn]

The claim that old multi-year Arctic sea ice is only 2 to 8 feet thick is quite bogus, as this scientific data makes very clear.

I'm quoting YOUR source here. With the graphs that were in the NOAA page that you linked. Go bluster at them.

The statement that the MAJORITY of multi-year Arctic SIce is less than 8 ft thick is a reality today.. Not bogus.
And we've only the capability to accurately measure this on a wide SPACE surveys for about 25 or 30 years..

 

[RollingThunder]

The claim that old multi-year Arctic sea ice is only 2 to 8 feet thick is quite bogus, as this scientific data makes very clear.

I'm quoting YOUR source here. With the graphs that were in the NOAA page that you linked. Go bluster at them.

The statement that the MAJORITY of multi-year Arctic SIce is less than 8 ft thick is a reality today..

"Today" - yes, you're right the majority of the Arctic ice is less than 8 feet thick.

But that wasn't true before. You were trying to claim that the old multi-year ice has always been between 2 and 8 feet thick and therefore it could be easily "regenerated". That's nonsense. As the article from the NSIDC said: "In a recently published paper, R. Lindsay and A. Schweiger provide a longer-term view of ice thickness, compiling a variety of subsurface, aircraft, and satellite observations. They found that ice thickness over the central Arctic Ocean has declined from an average of 3.59 meters (11.78 feet) to only 1.25 meters (4.10 feet), a reduction of 65% over the period 1975 to 2012."
And that is after averaging in all of the thinner first year ice in 1975.

And all that fully supports the OP about the rapid decline of the older multi-year thick ice on the Arctic Ocean.