was it ok to destroy Dresden?

[Zebra]

in 1944 Stauffenberg wanted to end the Nazi regime
but the Nazis had luck and were stronger, unfortunately

 

[Zincwarrior]

in 1944 Stauffenberg wanted to end the Nazi regime
but the Nazis had luck and were stronger, unfortunately

Yes.

 

[Zebra]

and already in 1939 Georg Elser nearly succeeded in blowing up Hitler

 

[Zincwarrior]

and already in 1939 Georg Elser nearly succeeded in blowing up Hitler

There were many attempts on Hitler actually, most never made it near the attempt stage.

The difficulty is that, per the OP, Germany has Wallies and I think Soviet forces already in Germany or preparing major offensives into Germany. The Wallies don't bag the Ruhr Pocket until April, but German dudes, you are running on steam now and more tanks than God are coming from both directions.

 

[Zebra]

There were many attempts on Hitler actually, most never made it near the attempt stage.

The difficulty is that, per the OP, Germany has Wallies and I think Soviet forces already in Germany or preparing major offensives into Germany. The Wallies don't bag the Ruhr Pocket until April, but German dudes, you are running on steam now and more tanks than God are coming from both directions.

what are Wallies?

 

[Zincwarrior]

what are Wallies?

Western Allies: The US, UK, free French, free Poles, Canada. I don't think there were other Imperial troops in mainland Europe. Often these are termed "Wallies" vs. the Soviets- which combined would be "Allies."

 

[Zebra]

Western Allies: The US, UK, free French, free Poles, Canada. I don't think there were other Imperial troops in mainland Europe. Often these are termed "Wallies" vs. the Soviets- which combined would be "Allies."

first time i heard it

 

[Zincwarrior]

first time i heard it

You will see it a lot on history forums where we explain that Wallies ruled and Russia drooled. They...disagree.

 

[whitehall]

It was OK but it was not OK. The accepted military strategy at the time was to keep killing civilians until the maniacs surrender. The justification persisted even after the war. What happens when a dam blows up? The power to factories goes out but civilians are killed. Hollywood made a movie called "Dam Busters" celebrating the fact that scientists figured a way for a bomber to drop a bouncing ball full of explosives and destroy a selected dam.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Nope, Dresden had no major military production so in my opinion was not a legit target.

That was "Bomber Harris" exacting revenge for the Luftwaffes attack on Canterbury, and a host of other cities that likewise had no military significance either.

So, the Krupp factory that produced a large portion of Germany's artillery, armored vehicles and anti-aircraft guns WASN'T doing major military production? Who knew?

 

[Mushroom]

Nope, Dresden had no major military production

Oh yes, "no major military production".

If you don't count bomb sights, tank optics, manufacturing of the 8.8cm Flak Gun, torpedoes, and multiple munitions factories.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

i dont think so

what do you think?

Ah, Dresden! Love the Smell of Burnt Nazi-Supporters in the Morning!

War is between nations, not just between their militaries. The civilians supported Hitler and deserved to pay the consequences. Besides, if the Nazis had won, all those people would have become the ruling class over the rest of the world.

 

[Mushroom]

I went with "It was ok" but I only say that because without all the facts I don't want to 2nd guess the matter.

Basic facts, it was a major transportation and industrial hub.

The NSDAP apologists try to pretend that none of that was there.

Kind of like how the Japan apologists try to pretend that Hiroshima was not a major logistical base and the command for the defense of Southern Japan. And that Nagasaki was not a major naval base for shipbuilding. Not only the home of and where most of the Japanese subs were built, but the IJN Amagi, one of the last carriers Japan completed during the war.

But please, I do applaud you for saying you do not know the facts. I have long believed that people should know facts, so they do not fall prey to people that want to drive people based on lies and emotions.

 

[Mushroom]

So, the Krupp factory that produced a large portion of Germany's artillery, armored vehicles and anti-aircraft guns WASN'T doing major military production? Who knew?

The thing is, the majority that claim that the bombing was not needed tend to be ne-nazis and NSDAP apologists. They are literally quoting Joseph Goebbels when they make such claims.

So guess how seriously I take them? And as seriously as I take any of the NSDAP apologists or the Soviet-Russian apologists.

In other words, not at all. And why I see both of them equally untrustworthy.

And notice how they will repeatedly completely ignore facts like the factories there and the rail lines and marshalling yards that serviced the city, and simply resort to attacks.

 

[westwall]

Oh yes, "no major military production".

If you don't count bomb sights, tank optics, manufacturing of the 8.8cm Flak Gun, torpedoes, and multiple munitions factories.

Those were manufactured outside of Dresden. There was no need to destroy the city center.

 

[westwall]

So, the Krupp factory that produced a large portion of Germany's artillery, armored vehicles and anti-aircraft guns WASN'T doing major military production? Who knew?

That plant was far outside the city center.

That is what I am referring to.

 

[BothWings]

Dresden is around 250 miles from Berlin or so, and was one of the few major German cities within that distance. The Nazis knew they were losing and a main priority was preventing the Allies from reaching the Reichstag while Hitler and top Nazis made final arrangements. Therefore Dresden may have still held some strategic value in defending the Reichstag, diverting Allied forces...or so the Allies possibly thought. So their logic may have dictated that Dresden should be crippled in order to isolate and alienate the Reichstag from all possible support.

 

[Mushroom]

Those were manufactured outside of Dresden. There was no need to destroy the city center.

The rail marshalling yard was right on the edge of the city center.

And how accurate do you think carpet bombing was in WWII? They were often lucky if the bombs struck a half mile of their target.

 

[Mushroom]

That plant was far outside the city center.

"Far outside". Try just under three miles.

After all, it makes no sense to put a factory far away from the population that will be working in it.

 

[westwall]

"Far outside". Try just under three miles.

After all, it makes no sense to put a factory far away from the population that will be working in it.

Like I said, miles away from the city center. The most intense destruction of the city, the center, devoid of military production, was 2.5 square miles. The British managed to burn up another 10 square miles on top of that.

And in the 1940's, yeah, it was far outside. Remember, few people had the ability to hop in their car and drive to wherever.