Zone1 Was Eve expelled from Eden, or did she leave with Adam?

[ding]

He did. It just isn't THIS one. This is a world OF natural disease and deformity. That is material nature.

So are you saying it's Adam and Eve's fault?

 

[hobelim]

Then I guess a lot of people must be willing and eager to murder, given have the chance or excuse.

Of course.

Thats why many unethical people go to church on Sunday to celebrate the murder of Jesus, a perfect human sacrifice, the Jewish messiah, to a Roman trinity on the Mithran cross thinking that throwing Jesus under the bus will spare them the consequences for their own sins including such a reprehensible belief. It reinforces their brainwashed delusion that they are saved and everyone else is damned. The id is a difficult mental prison to escape from.

That's the reason why prophets called for the people (of God) to circumcize "the flesh" of the foreskin of the mind, the base primal instincts, in effect calling people dickheads.

A bit of celestial humor.

The command to circumcise the flesh of the foreskin was never about mutilating weenies.

 

[toobfreak]

I haven't heard that before. If you don't mind me asking, what is the basis for this belief?

Really? You did not know that? You do know that Satan was originally an angel in Heaven himself too, and fell out of Grace by declaring himself independent of God right?

You're asking some heavy questions that you are not probably ready for. Even if I were to refer you to the text where this is explained in detail, it would not do you much good because it comprises 18 volumes in hard-copy book for the full set costing hundreds of dollars. It is (mentally) a heavy lift, but if you really want to know, PM me, and I'll tell you where I think it is covered in one volume if memory still serves me that you can still buy used for about $20.00.

 

[hobelim]

A person can't be hypnotized to do something they don't want to do.

I agree.

That just goes to show that beneath the facade of 1 in 5 people a murderer is lurking within.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Indeed, you've got a single verse explicitly saying Eve ate of the fruit.
And every other verse mentioning Adam eating "of the tree."

What does the distinction indicate?

That they both ate the fruit, obviously.

 

[hobelim]

God told them "the day you eat..."

So was the tree forbidden or the fruit?

The flesh, teaching, the fruit of the tree is what is forbidden.

For instance Idolatry is a sin under penalty of death a curse. So it follows that in the very day someone like ding or Ace Nova set aside the command of God and ate the fruit of the forbidden tree, a despicable deceiver who told them if they got down on their knees to worship and eat a matzo they could commit idolatry and not die but will instead can sin with impunity and live forever (after they died) derp. So they died and descended into hell, the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where they remain tormented day and night by reality which contradicts their vile beliefs day and night like a consuming fire that will never go out.

 

[toobfreak]

I don't understand. Why is some freedom of choice an illusion?

Again, everything here is an illusion. A zoo animal is not free but may be given the illusion of freedom. People are both free and not free. We have freedom of choice in some ways while still being subject to destiny and fate in others. You should probably just take my explanations at face value as the conclusions at the end of a long process, because the more I try to fill in the long process of getting there, the more it might confuse and just open to question farther, and of course, simply expose to the typical ridicule common to social media.

Besides, you are asking hard questions difficult to explain, and I'm not a library nor interested in endless discussion on the matter which will inevitably just result in yet more questions, ridicule and doubt, (not all necessarily by you) when the best way really to understand is by finding out on your own.

There are many levels to knowledge and understanding, the best being through direct knowledge and experience.

Direct Experience is easy: that is simply those things which you have literally directly lived through so know from experience.

Direct Knowledge is much harder: It involves knowledge gleaned directly through one's intuition (spiritual heart) coming from the Divine that is not gotten from temporal knowledge but gained through one's own intuitive channels, usually gleaned through spiritual purification and enlightenment. Yeah, that's right--- if one's mind and heart are pure enough, knowledge just kind of "comes" to you, sort of like God just talking to you on some sort of cosmic communication channel.

Now, ain't that a kicker.

Now you are dragging me into areas bound to open up 10,000 questions, and if not that, then 5,000 doubts, insults and ridicule, so, I'll leave the matter to your own investigation, because I'm sure next, someone is bound to retort that I'm just full of it, and I'm not really interested in arguing with idiots.

 

[ding]

Really? You did not know that?

I know what I believe. I don't know what you believe.

You do know that Satan was originally an angel in Heaven himself too, and fell out of Grace by declaring himself independent of God right?

That's what I have been told.

You're asking some heavy questions

Those are the best kind of questions, right?

that you are not probably ready for.

But I am.

Even if I were to refer you to the text where this is explained in detail, it would not do you much good because it comprises 18 volumes in hard-copy book for the full set costing hundreds of dollars. It is (mentally) a heavy lift, but if you really want to know, PM me, and I'll tell you where I think it is covered in one volume if memory still serves me that you can still buy used for about $20.00.

Can you thumbnail it for me?

 

[rylah]

That they both ate the fruit, obviously.

And if so, was the fruit forbidden or the tree?

 

[rylah]

The flesh, teaching, the fruit of the tree is what is forbidden.

For instance Idolatry is a sin under penalty of death a curse. So it follows that in the very day someone like ding or Ace Nova set aside the command of God and ate the fruit of the forbidden tree, a despicable deceiver who told them if they got down on their knees to worship and eat a matzo they could commit idolatry and not die but will instead can sin with impunity and live forever (after they died) derp. they died and descended into hell, the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where they remain tormented day and night by reality which contradicts their vile beliefs day and night like a consuming fire that will never go out.

Does this verse forbid the fruit or the tree?

Genesis 2:17 | Sefaria Library

but as for the tree of knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for as soon as you eat of it, you shall...

www.sefaria.org.il

 

[hobelim]

Thou shalt not kill is God's idea. Murder is yours...

Moses killed an Egyptian, a righteous kill. The command is to not murder which is not about homicide as revealed by Jesus saying, Satan was a murderer from the beginning (of the fairy tale) even though he never committed homicide. What he did was beguile A&E into defying the command of God which caused their death, a curse, expulsion from a sane AWARE life.

To be aware is to be alive.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Indeed, you've got a single verse explicitly saying Eve ate of the fruit.
And every other verse mentioning Adam eating "of the tree."

What does the distinction indicate?

Eve was beguiled, Adam was not. Adam ate from the tree. It's fruit would be the only edible part of a tree. When I eat a pear from a pear tree, I eat the fruit from the tree, not the tree.
God found both Adam and Eve in the same condition because they did the same thing. They ate the fruit.
Eve was tempted. Adam was not. He ate freely...

 

[ding]

Again, everything here is an illusion.

If you are saying some choices are an illusion but not all choices are an illusion, then why aren't all choices an illusion? I think a better way of describing our reality is that it is a temporary or alternate reality. It's not an illusion. But I fundamentally disagree with you. I believe everything is choice. We control our destiny. We control our fate.

A zoo animal is not free but may be given the illusion of freedom.

A zoo animal isn't free period.

People are both free and not free. We have freedom of choice in some ways while still being subject to destiny and fate in others.

Fate and destiny do not negate free will. Free will determines fate and destiny.

You should probably just take my explanations at face value as the conclusions at the end of a long process, because the more I try to fill in the long process of getting there, the more it might confuse and just open to question farther, and of course, simply expose to the typical ridicule common to social media.

I'm not ridiculing you. I am trying to understand the basis for your beliefs. While simultaneously sharing mine. It's not a competition. You don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you. That doesn't mean we can't share why we believe what we believe.

Besides, you are asking hard questions difficult to explain, and I'm not a library nor interested in endless discussion on the matter which will inevitably just result in yet more questions, ridicule and doubt, (not all necessarily by you) when the best way really to understand is by finding out on your own.

Again... I'm not trying to ridicule you. I'm trying to understand the basis for your beliefs.

There are many levels to knowledge and understanding, the best being through direct knowledge and experience.

Sure, but the only way I will understand why you believe what you do is for you to tell me.

Direct Experience is easy: that is simply those things which you have literally directly lived through so know from experience.

Sure. I know my experiences but I don't know your experiences.

Direct Knowledge is much harder: It involves knowledge gleaned directly through one's intuition (spiritual heart) coming from the Divine that is not gotten from temporal knowledge but gained through one's own intuitive channels, usually gleaned through spiritual purification and enlightenment. Yeah, that's right--- if one's mind and heart are pure enough, knowledge just kind of "comes" to you, sort of like God just talking to you on some sort of cosmic communication channel.

I understand that. That's how it works for me too but I can always explain the why because what comes to me makes sense.

Now you are dragging me into areas bound to open up 10,000 questions, and if not that, then 5,000 doubts, insults and ridicule, so, I'll leave the matter to your own investigation, because I'm sure next, someone is bound to retort that I'm just full of it, and I'm not really interested in arguing with idiots.

I'm only asking questions aimed at understanding why you believe what you do.

 

[ding]

The flesh, teaching, the fruit of the tree is what is forbidden.

For instance Idolatry is a sin under penalty of death a curse. So it follows that in the very day someone like ding or Ace Nova set aside the command of God and ate the fruit of the forbidden tree, a despicable deceiver who told them if they got down on their knees to worship and eat a matzo they could commit idolatry and not die but will instead can sin with impunity and live forever (after they died) derp. So they died and descended into hell, the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where they remain tormented day and night by reality which contradicts their vile beliefs day and night like a consuming fire that will never go out.

The whole idolatry thing was because they were polytheists to begin with. You are tilting at windmills.

 

[toobfreak]

I know what I believe. I don't know what you believe.

You can never know that.

Can you thumbnail it for me?

Not even sure what that means, ding. If you are willing to spend $20, and read through a big, hardback book full of some really heavy stuff, I believe I know one volume that touches upon the subject you ask of, among many other things.

Yeah, there are on line sources, and I've looked at them, but they all suck. Skimming through a website is not at all the same as paging through a book you hold in your hand.

If you're really interested, PM me and I'll link you to where you can buy the book I believe covers the question you asked.

 

[hobelim]

The whole idolatry thing was because they were polytheists to begin with. You are tilting at windmills.

it is the first commandment. To not worship anything made by human hands, under penalty of the death, a curse. Its what you do in church, always dying, never finding peace in death.

Dying religiously week after week, month after month, year after year, whee! Whee! WHEE!

If you don't believe open your ears next time you go to mass and hear the priest say he will take this bread, MADE BY HUMAN HANDS, and it will become for "us" the body of Christ. A lie that desecrates the Actual Body of Christ, teaching, WORDS from God that became his flesh, buried under a mountain of blasphemy upon which your church sits like a red dragon.

Thats why you are oblivious to the fact that your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field. You died and descended into hell, Gehenna, many decades ago.

 

[rylah]

Eve was beguiled, Adam was not. Adam ate from the tree. It would be the only edible part of a tree. When I eat a pear from a pear tree, I eat the fruit from the tree, not the tree.
God found both Adam and Eve in the same condition because they did the same thing. They ate the fruit.
Eve was tempted. Adam was not. He ate freely...

Then why not a single verse mentions Adam eating fruit itself?
Why is there even distinction if they're the same?

If they did the same thing,

how the outcome is different, the curse of the earth,
and the expulsion from Eden is only in reference to Adam?

 

[ding]

You can never know that.

That's why I asked.

Not even sure what that means, ding. If you are willing to spend $20, and read through a big, hardback book full of some really heavy stuff, I believe I know one volume that touches upon the subject you ask of, among many other things.

Yeah, there are on line sources, and I've looked at them, but they all suck. Skimming through a website is not at all the same as paging through a book you hold in your hand.

If you're really interested, PM me and I'll link you to where you can buy the book I believe covers the question you asked.

Nice chatting with you.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And if so, was the fruit forbidden or the tree?

Obviously the fruit. Unless you're a big fan of eating wood and leaves....?

 

[ding]

it is the first commandment.

Because they were polytheists and had a hard time letting go of their old ways. Try googling it.

To not worship anything made by human hands, under penalty of the death, a curse, which is what you do, always dying, never finding peace in death.

If you don't believe me open your ears next time you go to mass and hear the priest say that he will take this bread, MADE BY HUMAN HANDS, and it will become for "us" the body of Christ, a lie that desecrates the Actual Body of Christ, teaching, words from God that became his flesh.

Thats why you are oblivious to the fact that your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field. You died and descended into hell, Gehenna, many decades ago.

Look at you spewing your hatred for Christianity. You literally cannot help yourself.