Lewdog
Gold Member
Who has the U.S. helped that didn't turn on us except the UK, France, and a few other European countries?
Victory in Mosul, Daesh dead!
- Thread starter Marion Morrison
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Who has the U.S. helped that didn't turn on us except the UK, France, and a few other European countries?
blackhawk
Diamond Member
They were defeated when they were called Al-Qaeda in Iraq as well. The question now is will the world make sure they stay defeated or just pack up and move on and let them reorganize and rearm like before?
Marion Morrison
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Many are though, however.
It would be good if derp countries didn't allow them re-entry.
Call Sign Chaos
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Call Sign Chaos
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Obama's plan worked.
What plan was that? Allow them to capture several major cities in Syria and Iraq, label them the JV team, then ignore them until their bloodshed spills onto western shores?
Many are though, however.
It would be good if derp countries didn't allow them re-entry.
They still control a large part of Syria/Iraq and it's likely difficult to control those borders...and, the underlying problem of failed states and ethnic tensions still exists
Obama's plan worked.
What plan was that? Allow them to capture several major cities in Syria and Iraq, label them the JV team, then ignore them until their bloodshed spills onto western shores?
Train THEM to fight Daesh, not send in our soldiers.
Call Sign Chaos
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58% of Senate democrats voted for the resolution including both Democrat Presidential nominees who were in the Senate at the time of the vote, the exception would be Obama who was not in Congress yet and it was not the "Joint Resolution to Grant Teeth to Future Inspections," it was the Joint Resolution for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq.
Obama withdrew all combat troops as of aug. 2010 more than a year before the Dec. 2011 deadline.
Which they didn't. Obama could have and should have renegotiated the SOFA but instead he pulled out all combat troops more than a year before the deadline so don't fucking tell me that Obama was just going along with the Bush agreement, not only did he not attempt to renegotiate but he expedited the withdrawal of combat troops.
And you're wrong there were loopholes:
Summary
A reinterpretation of the recently signed US-Iraq security pact leaves loopholes in the agreement undermining the very concessions originally negotiated. U.S. troops will no longer be compelled to vacate Iraqi cities as called for by the Status-of-Forces Agreement (SOFA). Exposing the deal’s loopholes threatens a rejection by the Iraqi public via the proposed July 2009 national referendum.
Analysis
Though the Iraqi parliament debated and eventually passed the SOFA with the U.S. that would remove U.S. troops from Iraqi cities by mid-2009, it turns out that the Bush and al-Maliki regimes have reinterpreted the provisions of the agreement to permit U.S. soldiers to remain in active combat roles in Iraqi cities indefinitely.
While the reversal of the security pact’s intent is not unexpected, the fact that the ‘loophole’ is being publicized so quickly after Iraq’s parliament passed the pact is, indeed, quite brazen.
After months of intense negotiations, Iraqi Prime Minister al-Maliki put his own political life, and that of his party’s, on the line by submitting a security pact that would permit the continued presence of U.S. forces in Iraq commencing with the end of the UN mandate, scheduled to expire at the end of this year.
Yesterday, however, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, General Ray Odierno, admitted that yet-to-be-negotiated U.S. troops would remain in Iraqi cities past the mid-2009 deadline imposed by the security pact as part of so-called “transition teams”, manning numerous security outposts closely coordinated with Iraqi soldiers. The same day, Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell also revealed another loophole: U.S. troops will continue to remain in active combat roles at the “invitation of the Iraqi Parliament”. Such an ‘invitation’ would not require a passage of law, but merely the ‘request’ of pro-U.S. Prime Minister al-Maliki.
Both revelations followed on the heels of Friday’s expose in Washington when top Iraqi government spokesman, Ali al-Dabbagh, conceded that U.S. troops would be in Iraq for another 10 years.
Opposition Sunni lawmakers are already crying foul.
Perhaps such blatant, duplicitous deception animated the Sunni Iraqi journalist Muntader al-Zaidi to throw his shoes at President Bush today at a press conference after the outgoing American leader signed the U.S.-Iraq security pact. Al-Zaidi shouted: “This is a gift from the Iraqis; this is the farewell kiss, you dog!” as he threw the first shoe, “This is from the widows, the orphans and those who were killed in Iraq!” as he threw the second, and continued to curse Bush for being the murderer of innocent Iraqi women and children.
Background on SOFA negotiations
Prime Minister Al-Maliki faced stiff opposition, including from his own senior coalition partner, the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council, a Shiite political party led by stalwarts that lived in exile in Iran during Saddam Hussein’s reign, and who are still believed to be heavily influenced by Tehran which has publicly denounced the agreement. Yet, the most vociferous opposition to date has been voiced by the ardent anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who was able to gather tens of thousands of supporters in protest marches through Baghdad.
Despite the opposition, however, al-Maliki was able to convince the three-man Iraqi presidential triumvirate, composed of a Sunni, a Kurd and a Shia, to sign off on the deal – a veto by any of the three would have killed the proposed pact. Instrumental in obtaining the support of the presidential triumvirate, and his fellow legislators, al-Maliki and his team of negotiators were able to secure a number of key concessions hitherto opposed by the Bush administration: namely, and most importantly, that U.S. forces would vacate Iraqi cities by mid-2009 by retreating to their bases, and withdraw from the country by 2011.
It was on the basis of these major concessions that al-Maliki presented the security pact to a hostile Iraqi parliament, which had to postpone a vote on the agreement after days of raucous debate threatened to collapse the fragile Iraqi parliamentary system. In the meantime, bowing to pressure exerted by opposition parties – particularly from members representing anti-American constituencies with an eye to upcoming provincial elections – al-Maliki’s ruling Dawa Party agreed to hold a nation-wide referendum on the security pact by July 2009.
Eventually, when Parliament resumed and the vote was held, the security pact did pass. Interestingly, members of Parliament intimated to the press that should the Iraqi public reject the agreement in the proposed July 2009 referendum, U.S. troops would have to leave Iraq by mid-2010 – ironically, the same exact 16-month timeframe for withdrawal proposed by president-elect Barack Obama.
Manjit Singh is a contributor
Loopholes in US-Iraq Security Pact | Geopolitical Monitor
Call Sign Chaos
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Obama's plan worked.
What plan was that? Allow them to capture several major cities in Syria and Iraq, label them the JV team, then ignore them until their bloodshed spills onto western shores?
Train THEM to fight Daesh, not send in our soldiers.
Oh spare me Obama absolutely sent combat troops back into Iraq:
What Obama Really Meant by 'No Boots on the Ground'
Barack Obama to send more soldiers to fight Islamic State in Syria
Obama sends more Special Forces to Syria in fight against IS
U.S. Will Deploy 560 More Troops to Iraq to Help Retake Mosul From ISIS
U.S. to Send 600 More Troops to Iraq to Help Retake Mosul From ISIS
Obama's plan worked.
What plan was that? Allow them to capture several major cities in Syria and Iraq, label them the JV team, then ignore them until their bloodshed spills onto western shores?
Train THEM to fight Daesh, not send in our soldiers.
Oh spare me Obama absolutely sent combat troops back into Iraq:
What Obama Really Meant by 'No Boots on the Ground'
Barack Obama to send more soldiers to fight Islamic State in Syria
Obama sends more Special Forces to Syria in fight against IS
U.S. Will Deploy 560 More Troops to Iraq to Help Retake Mosul From ISIS
U.S. to Send 600 More Troops to Iraq to Help Retake Mosul From ISIS
Troops were sent to train them.
Call Sign Chaos
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Obama's plan worked.
What plan was that? Allow them to capture several major cities in Syria and Iraq, label them the JV team, then ignore them until their bloodshed spills onto western shores?
Train THEM to fight Daesh, not send in our soldiers.
Oh spare me Obama absolutely sent combat troops back into Iraq:
What Obama Really Meant by 'No Boots on the Ground'
Barack Obama to send more soldiers to fight Islamic State in Syria
Obama sends more Special Forces to Syria in fight against IS
U.S. Will Deploy 560 More Troops to Iraq to Help Retake Mosul From ISIS
U.S. to Send 600 More Troops to Iraq to Help Retake Mosul From ISIS
Troops were sent to train them.
No the troops listed in those links were combat troops mainly spec ops taking direct participation in the fighting.
BlindBoo
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The Senate is only half of the US Congress and you did say a majority of Democrats in Congress.
And left 50,000 non combat troops.
President Bush had a full year to negotiate a long term SOFA. Why wasn't he able to get one that included a residual force? Because the Iraqis wouldn't allow US forces immunity, the very same reason why President Obama's negotiations failed.
Yea, they are for electing ruthless thugs that will kill all infidels.
JimBowie1958
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The Kurds are Sunni, lol, and a bit more secular than their other Muslim neighbors.
there4eyeM
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Hopefully, the maximum of Daesh fighters received their wish of dying for their ideas.
Call Sign Chaos
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A) I was going from memory.
B) Regardless every Presidential nominee of the DNC since the resolution that was able to, voted for said resolution.
Sitting in their bases doing nothing allowing daesh to grow in strength, regardless it is evidence that his withdrawal had nothing to do with the SOFA as revisionists would have us believe, he ran on withdrawal from Iraq so stop trying to blame his blunder on Bush it's just sad at this point
The 2008 SOFA had to expire before a new one could be negotiated. And as evidenced by the piece I posted Bush and Maliki were even reinterpreting the 2008 SOFA as soon as it was signed to allow US troops to continue to reside in the cities past the deadline rather than remaining in their bases.
Obama never tried to renegotiate, show me evidence of these attempted renegotiations of the SOFA.
Call Sign Chaos
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They're a hodge podge:
As a whole, the Kurdish people are adherents to a large number of different religions and creeds, perhaps constituting the most religiously diverse people of West Asia. Traditionally, Kurds have been known to take great liberties with their practices. This sentiment is reflected in the saying "Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim".[215]
Kurds - Wikipedia
Borillar
Platinum Member
The Kurds are an ethnic group. They are almost all Sunni Muslim.
Borillar
Platinum Member
Obama was elected to end the stupid Iraqnam war. Took him too long to GTFO of there.
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