USS liberty

[CMike]

At this point I realize the futility in attempting to conduct a productive and civil discussion with a typical Israel supporter (or agent) because they all share a common characteristic, which is to deny the obvious and resort to personal insults when confronted with facts. So for the benefit of those who might be swayed by such tactics, the official government report, which has been declassified from Top Secret, should be useful in reaching a conclusion about where the truth lies:

The Liberty Incident: Clark Clifford Report

Thanks for the amusement.

You said that what determined the facts is witnesses being about to be examined and cross examined under oath. That is EXACTLY what happened in the US Naval Court of Inquiry that you dismiss.

How many more Americans should die for apartheid Israel?

How many more Americans should read your moronic posts?

 

[georgephillip]

nope
that doesnt show it

Strafing life rafts is a war crime.

Are you under the impression some war crimes are accidental?

again, if that had been an Egyptian ship they were spies
spies can be shot on sight

The Egyptian ship in question, a supply vessel the El Quseir had one-fourth Liberty's displacement, roughly half the beam, was 180 feet shorter and was very differently configured.

Liberty's unusual antenna array and hull markings should have been visible to low flying aircraft and torpedo boats. In the heat of battle the Liberty was able to identify one of the attacking torpedo boats as Israeli and to ascertain its hull number.

In the same circumstances, trained Israeli naval personnel should have been able easily to see and identify the larger hull marking on the Liberty.

The Liberty Incident: Clark Clifford Report

 

[DiveCon]

Strafing life rafts is a war crime.

Are you under the impression some war crimes are accidental?

again, if that had been an Egyptian ship they were spies
spies can be shot on sight

The Egyptian ship in question, a supply vessel the El Quseir had one-fourth Liberty's displacement, roughly half the beam, was 180 feet shorter and was very differently configured.

Liberty's unusual antenna array and hull markings should have been visible to low flying aircraft and torpedo boats. In the heat of battle the Liberty was able to identify one of the attacking torpedo boats as Israeli and to ascertain its hull number.

In the same circumstances, trained Israeli naval personnel should have been able easily to see and identify the larger hull marking on the Liberty.

The Liberty Incident: Clark Clifford Report

woulda shoulda coulda

 

[georgephillip]

"The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance.

"According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its "shadow"—the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.

"This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three."'

How many American lives would that have cost?

USS Liberty

 

[MikeK]

"The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance.

"According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its "shadow"—the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.

"This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three."'

How many American lives would that have cost?

USS Liberty

I'm sure there is some arcane political intrigue lurking behind the Liberty incident because there is no way the attack was "accidental" or a case of "friendly fire" and our government's passive response to it is absolutely bizarre.

I personally believe the attack was deliberate and purposeful but I doubt that it was sanctioned by Israel's highest political authority. I believe someone in the military ranks decided to do it and claim it was accidental and the fact that Israel has refused to conduct or cooperate in a formal investigation of the incident is the source of my resentment of and enmity toward Israel and why I question our government's continued support of that troublesome little nation. The only reason I can think of is bribery of our congress by AIPAC, which is the second most powerful lobbying organization in Washington and it represents a foreign government.

 

[CMike]

Strafing life rafts is a war crime.

Are you under the impression some war crimes are accidental?

again, if that had been an Egyptian ship they were spies
spies can be shot on sight

The Egyptian ship in question, a supply vessel the El Quseir had one-fourth Liberty's displacement, roughly half the beam, was 180 feet shorter and was very differently configured.

Liberty's unusual antenna array and hull markings should have been visible to low flying aircraft and torpedo boats. In the heat of battle the Liberty was able to identify one of the attacking torpedo boats as Israeli and to ascertain its hull number.

In the same circumstances, trained Israeli naval personnel should have been able easily to see and identify the larger hull marking on the Liberty.

The Liberty Incident: Clark Clifford Report

No one mentioned a ship in question.

Israeli first thought it was an Egyptian warship, then an Egyptian cargo ship.

Being in the middle of a war, on the Egyptian coast, is not a safe place to be.

 

[CMike]

"The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance.

"According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its "shadow"—the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.

"This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three."'

How many American lives would that have cost?

USS Liberty

I'm sure there is some arcane political intrigue lurking behind the Liberty incident because there is no way the attack was "accidental" or a case of "friendly fire" and our government's passive response to it is absolutely bizarre.

I personally believe the attack was deliberate and purposeful but I doubt that it was sanctioned by Israel's highest political authority. I believe someone in the military ranks decided to do it and claim it was accidental and the fact that Israel has refused to conduct or cooperate in a formal investigation of the incident is the source of my resentment of and enmity toward Israel and why I question our government's continued support of that troublesome little nation. The only reason I can think of is bribery of our congress by AIPAC, which is the second most powerful lobbying organization in Washington and it represents a foreign government.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion, no matter how uninformed and stupid it may be.

It's really simple.

I posted the declassified transcript of the Israeli pilots and their command, during the incident, as gotten by a NSA spy plane.

Case closed.

 

[CMike]

"The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance.

"According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its "shadow"—the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.

"This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three."'

How many American lives would that have cost?

USS Liberty

Another conspiracy book

Amazing how weak minded and gullible some people are.

 

[Intense]

"The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance.

"According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its "shadow"—the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.

"This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three."'

How many American lives would that have cost?

USS Liberty

Another conspiracy book

Amazing how weak minded and gullible some people are.

Why don't you just say what you really mean Mike????

Mirror, Mirror, on the wall....

Why can't I make them believe in the cover up at all?????

 

[DiveCon]

"The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance.

"According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its "shadow"—the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.

"This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three."'

How many American lives would that have cost?

USS Liberty

Another conspiracy book

Amazing how weak minded and gullible some people are.

Why don't you just say what you really mean Mike????

Mirror, Mirror, on the wall....

Why can't I make them believe in the cover up at all?????

um, WHAT????

 

[CMike]

They are talking in and

 

[Intense]

Shit, if it was in the Report it must be true.

 

[Marc39]

If you HONESTLY research the attack there is NO other explanation for using UNMARKED WAR PLANES then to hide their identity as Israeli. It was either a "false flag" operation or an attack to SINK a US warship.

Sooo, the Israelis intentionally committed an act of war against the US?

Even a peabrain like yourself can't possibly be so stupid.

 

[CMike]

"The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance.

"According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its "shadow"—the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.

"This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three."'

How many American lives would that have cost?

USS Liberty

Another conspiracy book

Amazing how weak minded and gullible some people are.

Why don't you just say what you really mean Mike????

Mirror, Mirror, on the wall....

Why can't I make them believe in the cover up at all?????

You are extremely confused.

I believe the transcript of the Israeli pilots talking to each other as obtained by a US spy plane, the US Navy, NSA, CIA, Senate Intelligence Committee, etc.

You and your ilk on the other hand seem to believe that they forged and doctered everything and believe the fictious and amusing conspiracy books and cooky web sites about the incident.

 

[Marc39]

The only reason I can think of is bribery of our congress by AIPAC, which is the second most powerful lobbying organization in Washington and it represents a foreign government.

You have proof the Congress is bribed by AIPAC?

Of course, not. You're a delusional whackjob.

 

[Marc39]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeK
The only reason I can think of is bribery of our congress by AIPAC, which is the second most powerful lobbying organization in Washington and it represents a foreign government.

AIPAC more powerful than the Goldman Sachs lobby? Noooo

AIPAC more powerful than the Saudi lobby? Noooooo

AIPAC more powerful than the teachers' lobby? Nooooo

AIPAC more powerful than the gun lobby? Nooooo

AIPAC more powerful than the drug lobby? Noooooo

AIPAC more powerful than SEIU? Noooooo

AIPAC more powerful than AARP? Noooooo

AIPAC more powerful than the Teamsters? Noooooo

AIPAC more powerful than the autoworkers union? Noooooo

In other words, you really don't know what the **** you're talking about

 

[Intense]

Another conspiracy book

Amazing how weak minded and gullible some people are.

Why don't you just say what you really mean Mike????

Mirror, Mirror, on the wall....

Why can't I make them believe in the cover up at all?????

You are extremely confused.

I believe the transcript of the Israeli pilots talking to each other as obtained by a US spy plane, the US Navy, NSA, CIA, Senate Intelligence Committee, etc.

You and your ilk on the other hand seem to believe that they forged and doctered everything and believe the fictious and amusing conspiracy books and cooky web sites about the incident.

I'll stick with the Eye Witness accounts. You stick with the cover up. Stay in your fantasy where everyone that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid is a nut case. I'd agree to respectfully disagree with you, I already have, but you are not capable of reason on this subject Mike. I hope your official Report keeps you safe and secure. For me, it is kindling.

 

[CMike]

Why don't you just say what you really mean Mike????

Mirror, Mirror, on the wall....

Why can't I make them believe in the cover up at all?????

You are extremely confused.

I believe the transcript of the Israeli pilots talking to each other as obtained by a US spy plane, the US Navy, NSA, CIA, Senate Intelligence Committee, etc.

You and your ilk on the other hand seem to believe that they forged and doctered everything and believe the fictious and amusing conspiracy books and cooky web sites about the incident.

I'll stick with the Eye Witness accounts. You stick with the cover up. Stay in your fantasy where everyone that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid is a nut case. I'd agree to respectfully disagree with you, I already have, but you are not capable of reason on this subject Mike. I hope your official Report keeps you safe and secure. For me, it is kindling.

All the witnesses can say is that they were attacked, and I agree with that.

They had no way of knowing of the intention of the people attacking them.

This is just like when the Brits were attacked by american missiles. All they can witness is that they were attacked by a missile, not why.

 

[georgephillip]

"The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris armed Lafayette-class submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance.

"According to Howe: 'Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its "shadow"—the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad.

"This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three."'

How many American lives would that have cost?

USS Liberty

I'm sure there is some arcane political intrigue lurking behind the Liberty incident because there is no way the attack was "accidental" or a case of "friendly fire" and our government's passive response to it is absolutely bizarre.

I personally believe the attack was deliberate and purposeful but I doubt that it was sanctioned by Israel's highest political authority. I believe someone in the military ranks decided to do it and claim it was accidental and the fact that Israel has refused to conduct or cooperate in a formal investigation of the incident is the source of my resentment of and enmity toward Israel and why I question our government's continued support of that troublesome little nation. The only reason I can think of is bribery of our congress by AIPAC, which is the second most powerful lobbying organization in Washington and it represents a foreign government.

Almost 15 years ago I first opened a book written by Noam Chomsky and quickly obtained a different insight into "that troublesome little nation."

I'm paraphrasing but reasonably sure I remember Noam's intent when he argued that Israel came into existence as a Jewish state to purchase large quantities of US made arms that were largely paid for by US taxpayers.

Israel used the superior firepower to wage war on its neighbors, thereby distracting the "Arab street" from the endemic corruption of their elites and focusing Muslim rage on plucky little Israel.

This made it relatively easy for Christian, Jewish, and Muslim elites to divert the profits from Arab oil to banks in London and New York.

Arm sales and oil sales are the leading source of global profits, and Israel plays a key role in sustaining both, largely through AIPAC's influence on the US Congress and American Zionism.

 

[Marc39]

Almost 15 years ago I first opened a book written by Noam Chomsky and quickly obtained a different insight into "that troublesome little nation."

Chomsky is just a linguistics teacher. His expertise is not in international affairs.