USS John S. McCain collided with a merchant vessel. Ten U.S. men Missing. WTF? Again?

[JimBowie1958]

Massive training, and experience. The sea however, remains a force that cannot be 'trained'.

She isn't funny, nor are the ships, (also referred to as SHE).

Why are you quoting yourself?

See laughing face at the bottom of the post, Geez.............

No

Someone thought the post was funny, perhaps you need glasses.

I thought it was funny because the avoidable collision was with a merchant vessel, not the sea.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Driving a boat is /nothing/ like driving a car.

I am quite sure that the US Navy does not 'drive boats'.

 

[Slash]

The whole thing is just unbelievable....hard to believe we can have two "accidents" like this in about a month or two?

What in the heck is going on with their protocol to make certain I's are dotted and T's are crossed to prevent these kind of things? Has it changed recently?
Or are these tankers purposely barging in to us?

None of this makes any sense and more than likely nearly 20 men dead...from just the two accidents???

Maybe the crew's sleeping area should be designed higher than the water level that a barge could ram them at...???

it's hard to ram anything moving with a ship as big as an oil tanker, those things take a long time to aim in a general direction, never mind target a small moving object.

Right of way on the seas always goes to the least maneuverable vessel.

I had heard on the news that the other ship that had gotten rammed, the Captain and co Captain and a handful of others were demoted or reprimanded and it was determined it was their error....but I did not get the details on what the actual problem was....I'll google that later to find out...

i saw a story on that, but it probably isn't over because the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged.

If not, their asses will be out of the navy in a few months.

does,

the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged

mean that the officers can request a trial?

The whole thing is just unbelievable....hard to believe we can have two "accidents" like this in about a month or two?

What in the heck is going on with their protocol to make certain I's are dotted and T's are crossed to prevent these kind of things? Has it changed recently?
Or are these tankers purposely barging in to us?

None of this makes any sense and more than likely nearly 20 men dead...from just the two accidents???

Maybe the crew's sleeping area should be designed higher than the water level that a barge could ram them at...???

it's hard to ram anything moving with a ship as big as an oil tanker, those things take a long time to aim in a general direction, never mind target a small moving object.

Right of way on the seas always goes to the least maneuverable vessel.

I had heard on the news that the other ship that had gotten rammed, the Captain and co Captain and a handful of others were demoted or reprimanded and it was determined it was their error....but I did not get the details on what the actual problem was....I'll google that later to find out...

i saw a story on that, but it probably isn't over because the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged.

If not, their asses will be out of the navy in a few months.

does,

the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged

mean that the officers can request a trial?

I believe so, unless military law has changed recently.

If the member considers the punishment to be unjust or to be disproportionate to the misconduct committed, he or she may appeal the NJP to a higher authority. This is usually the next officer in the chain of command. Upon considering the appeal, the higher authority may set aside the NJP, decrease the severity of the punishment, or may deny the appeal. They may not increase the severity of the punishment.

Personnel are permitted to refuse NJP in favor of a court-martial; this might be done in cases where they do not feel their Commanding Officer will give them a fair hearing. But this option exposes them to a possible criminal court conviction. Navy and Marine Corps personnel assigned to or embarked aboard ship do not have the option of refusing NJP, nor can they appeal the decision of the officer imposing punishment; they may only appeal the severity of the punishment.

Non-judicial punishment - Wikipedia

You can not support a military on hope and change....it takes investment.

And how many times do we outspend the next most expensive military in the world?

All the instruments and equipment in the world cannot help in one freak storm.

What freak storm?

IF there was one. Rogue waves are also part of the sea; the area looks crowded to me. Cargo vessels too close to military ships. Are the shipping lanes good in the area?

If a Rogue wave was involved. Which was not.
They both would be sailing into the wave.

Can a destroyer move quickly enough to have avoided this? The cargo ship rammed the destroyer, port aft.

In almost any sea conditions, they can round like 3 times the speed.
Of a tanker. So, yes.

As for Yuge One wave.
They are one yuge and a few smaller waves. For miles and miles.
So no.
You can only head into them.
It does 30 knots. So if an island is near. They can hide behind it.
At night in the rough sea, we go behind islands for rest and sleep.
Running in 45-125 foot boats.

And fish 24 hours still. Tuna! Tuna!..Food... Food!

The problem I have with the wave theory is that it's glass around Singapore in Southeast asia. I think that would be the first thing that would be reported with this article was if there was some typhoon or something causing the issue.

 

[Baz Ares]

The whole thing is just unbelievable....hard to believe we can have two "accidents" like this in about a month or two?

What in the heck is going on with their protocol to make certain I's are dotted and T's are crossed to prevent these kind of things? Has it changed recently?
Or are these tankers purposely barging in to us?

None of this makes any sense and more than likely nearly 20 men dead...from just the two accidents???

Maybe the crew's sleeping area should be designed higher than the water level that a barge could ram them at...???

it's hard to ram anything moving with a ship as big as an oil tanker, those things take a long time to aim in a general direction, never mind target a small moving object.

Right of way on the seas always goes to the least maneuverable vessel.

I had heard on the news that the other ship that had gotten rammed, the Captain and co Captain and a handful of others were demoted or reprimanded and it was determined it was their error....but I did not get the details on what the actual problem was....I'll google that later to find out...

i saw a story on that, but it probably isn't over because the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged.

If not, their asses will be out of the navy in a few months.

does,

the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged

mean that the officers can request a trial?

it's hard to ram anything moving with a ship as big as an oil tanker, those things take a long time to aim in a general direction, never mind target a small moving object.

Right of way on the seas always goes to the least maneuverable vessel.

I had heard on the news that the other ship that had gotten rammed, the Captain and co Captain and a handful of others were demoted or reprimanded and it was determined it was their error....but I did not get the details on what the actual problem was....I'll google that later to find out...

i saw a story on that, but it probably isn't over because the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged.

If not, their asses will be out of the navy in a few months.

does,

the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged

mean that the officers can request a trial?

I believe so, unless military law has changed recently.

If the member considers the punishment to be unjust or to be disproportionate to the misconduct committed, he or she may appeal the NJP to a higher authority. This is usually the next officer in the chain of command. Upon considering the appeal, the higher authority may set aside the NJP, decrease the severity of the punishment, or may deny the appeal. They may not increase the severity of the punishment.

Personnel are permitted to refuse NJP in favor of a court-martial; this might be done in cases where they do not feel their Commanding Officer will give them a fair hearing. But this option exposes them to a possible criminal court conviction. Navy and Marine Corps personnel assigned to or embarked aboard ship do not have the option of refusing NJP, nor can they appeal the decision of the officer imposing punishment; they may only appeal the severity of the punishment.

Non-judicial punishment - Wikipedia

You can not support a military on hope and change....it takes investment.

And how many times do we outspend the next most expensive military in the world?

What freak storm?

IF there was one. Rogue waves are also part of the sea; the area looks crowded to me. Cargo vessels too close to military ships. Are the shipping lanes good in the area?

If a Rogue wave was involved. Which was not.
They both would be sailing into the wave.

Can a destroyer move quickly enough to have avoided this? The cargo ship rammed the destroyer, port aft.

In almost any sea conditions, they can round like 3 times the speed.
Of a tanker. So, yes.

As for Yuge One wave.
They are one yuge and a few smaller waves. For miles and miles.
So no.
You can only head into them.
It does 30 knots. So if an island is near. They can hide behind it.
At night in the rough sea, we go behind islands for rest and sleep.
Running in 45-125 foot boats.

And fish 24 hours still. Tuna! Tuna!..Food... Food!

The problem I have with the wave theory is that it's glass around Singapore in Southeast asia. I think that would be the first thing that would be reported with this article was if there was some typhoon or something causing the issue.

It was good weather/ Gulf of Thailand Marine Weather - Pick a Point | Buoyweather

 

[Baz Ares]

Driving a boat is /nothing/ like driving a car.

I am quite sure that the US Navy does not 'drive boats'.

REALLY? I see these all the time in San Deigo.

2 hurt when waves swamp Navy boat off San Clemente Island

 

[rightwinger]

Ten U.S. sailers are missing after USS John S. McCain collided with a merchant vessel in the Strait of Malaca.
Ten sailors missing after USS McCain collides with merchant ship

What is going on, I've been a long time Tuna chaser, We don't hit ships or other boats.
Our radar is set to sound an alarm miles out, plus the autopilot will adjust course from
the radar input. FFS!.

we should hold two years of hearings to determine why the incompetent trump admin keeps allowing these accidents to occur.

people died.

benghaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

Trump did not create the second busiest strait in the world:

The Malacca Strait experiences high-density vessel traffic, and therefore is a busy area with high potential for collisions. Analyses of marine traffic that reflect the real conditions of ship navigation are performed to enhance maritime traffic safety. An automatic identification system (AIS) allows for the accurate investigation of actual ship encounters, ship collisions, and sea traffic management systems. For this study, an AIS receiver installed at the Universiti Teknologi Malaysia (UTM) provided AIS data, which focused on a selected area in the Malacca Strait. The 1972 International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (COLREG) guided the assessment of navigation safety based on real conditions using AIS and geographic identification systems (GIS). Based on estimates of the probability and consequence indices from a risk matrix, the time and encounter conditions determined the level of risk. This study also conducted safety measurements

Risk of Navigation for Marine Traffic in the Malacca Strait Using AIS - ScienceDirect

Busy straight
Slow the fuck down
Maintain tight watch
Communicate with nearby traffic

No excuse

 

[Baz Ares]

Ten U.S. sailers are missing after USS John S. McCain collided with a merchant vessel in the Strait of Malaca.
Ten sailors missing after USS McCain collides with merchant ship

What is going on, I've been a long time Tuna chaser, We don't hit ships or other boats.
Our radar is set to sound an alarm miles out, plus the autopilot will adjust course from
the radar input. FFS!.

we should hold two years of hearings to determine why the incompetent trump admin keeps allowing these accidents to occur.

people died.

benghaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

Trump did not create the second busiest strait in the world:

The Malacca Strait experiences high-density vessel traffic, and therefore is a busy area with high potential for collisions. Analyses of marine traffic that reflect the real conditions of ship navigation are performed to enhance maritime traffic safety. An automatic identification system (AIS) allows for the accurate investigation of actual ship encounters, ship collisions, and sea traffic management systems. For this study, an AIS receiver installed at the Universiti Teknologi Malaysia (UTM) provided AIS data, which focused on a selected area in the Malacca Strait. The 1972 International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (COLREG) guided the assessment of navigation safety based on real conditions using AIS and geographic identification systems (GIS). Based on estimates of the probability and consequence indices from a risk matrix, the time and encounter conditions determined the level of risk. This study also conducted safety measurements

Risk of Navigation for Marine Traffic in the Malacca Strait Using AIS - ScienceDirect

Busy straight
Slow the fuck down
Maintain tight watch
Communicate with nearby traffic

No excuse

FFS! They can use Google Ship tracking. Start @ 0:56

 

[Peach]

The whole thing is just unbelievable....hard to believe we can have two "accidents" like this in about a month or two?

What in the heck is going on with their protocol to make certain I's are dotted and T's are crossed to prevent these kind of things? Has it changed recently?
Or are these tankers purposely barging in to us?

None of this makes any sense and more than likely nearly 20 men dead...from just the two accidents???

Maybe the crew's sleeping area should be designed higher than the water level that a barge could ram them at...???

it's hard to ram anything moving with a ship as big as an oil tanker, those things take a long time to aim in a general direction, never mind target a small moving object.

Right of way on the seas always goes to the least maneuverable vessel.

I had heard on the news that the other ship that had gotten rammed, the Captain and co Captain and a handful of others were demoted or reprimanded and it was determined it was their error....but I did not get the details on what the actual problem was....I'll google that later to find out...

i saw a story on that, but it probably isn't over because the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged.

If not, their asses will be out of the navy in a few months.

does,

the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged

mean that the officers can request a trial?

it's hard to ram anything moving with a ship as big as an oil tanker, those things take a long time to aim in a general direction, never mind target a small moving object.

Right of way on the seas always goes to the least maneuverable vessel.

I had heard on the news that the other ship that had gotten rammed, the Captain and co Captain and a handful of others were demoted or reprimanded and it was determined it was their error....but I did not get the details on what the actual problem was....I'll google that later to find out...

i saw a story on that, but it probably isn't over because the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged.

If not, their asses will be out of the navy in a few months.

does,

the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged

mean that the officers can request a trial?

I believe so, unless military law has changed recently.

If the member considers the punishment to be unjust or to be disproportionate to the misconduct committed, he or she may appeal the NJP to a higher authority. This is usually the next officer in the chain of command. Upon considering the appeal, the higher authority may set aside the NJP, decrease the severity of the punishment, or may deny the appeal. They may not increase the severity of the punishment.

Personnel are permitted to refuse NJP in favor of a court-martial; this might be done in cases where they do not feel their Commanding Officer will give them a fair hearing. But this option exposes them to a possible criminal court conviction. Navy and Marine Corps personnel assigned to or embarked aboard ship do not have the option of refusing NJP, nor can they appeal the decision of the officer imposing punishment; they may only appeal the severity of the punishment.

Non-judicial punishment - Wikipedia

You can not support a military on hope and change....it takes investment.

And how many times do we outspend the next most expensive military in the world?

What freak storm?

IF there was one. Rogue waves are also part of the sea; the area looks crowded to me. Cargo vessels too close to military ships. Are the shipping lanes good in the area?

If a Rogue wave was involved. Which was not.
They both would be sailing into the wave.

Can a destroyer move quickly enough to have avoided this? The cargo ship rammed the destroyer, port aft.

In almost any sea conditions, they can round like 3 times the speed.
Of a tanker. So, yes.

As for Yuge One wave.
They are one yuge and a few smaller waves. For miles and miles.
So no.
You can only head into them.
It does 30 knots. So if an island is near. They can hide behind it.
At night in the rough sea, we go behind islands for rest and sleep.
Running in 45-125 foot boats.

And fish 24 hours still. Tuna! Tuna!..Food... Food!

The problem I have with the wave theory is that it's glass around Singapore in Southeast asia. I think that would be the first thing that would be reported with this article was if there was some typhoon or something causing the issue.

It was a suggestion, freak waves happen in good weather also. Thanks for the information though. And my father would thank Bowie, these are SHIPS.

 

[Baz Ares]

it's hard to ram anything moving with a ship as big as an oil tanker, those things take a long time to aim in a general direction, never mind target a small moving object.

Right of way on the seas always goes to the least maneuverable vessel.

I had heard on the news that the other ship that had gotten rammed, the Captain and co Captain and a handful of others were demoted or reprimanded and it was determined it was their error....but I did not get the details on what the actual problem was....I'll google that later to find out...

i saw a story on that, but it probably isn't over because the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged.

If not, their asses will be out of the navy in a few months.

does,

the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged

mean that the officers can request a trial?

I had heard on the news that the other ship that had gotten rammed, the Captain and co Captain and a handful of others were demoted or reprimanded and it was determined it was their error....but I did not get the details on what the actual problem was....I'll google that later to find out...

i saw a story on that, but it probably isn't over because the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged.

If not, their asses will be out of the navy in a few months.

does,

the officers in question can demand a court-martial if they think they have been wronged

mean that the officers can request a trial?

I believe so, unless military law has changed recently.

If the member considers the punishment to be unjust or to be disproportionate to the misconduct committed, he or she may appeal the NJP to a higher authority. This is usually the next officer in the chain of command. Upon considering the appeal, the higher authority may set aside the NJP, decrease the severity of the punishment, or may deny the appeal. They may not increase the severity of the punishment.

Personnel are permitted to refuse NJP in favor of a court-martial; this might be done in cases where they do not feel their Commanding Officer will give them a fair hearing. But this option exposes them to a possible criminal court conviction. Navy and Marine Corps personnel assigned to or embarked aboard ship do not have the option of refusing NJP, nor can they appeal the decision of the officer imposing punishment; they may only appeal the severity of the punishment.

Non-judicial punishment - Wikipedia

You can not support a military on hope and change....it takes investment.

And how many times do we outspend the next most expensive military in the world?

IF there was one. Rogue waves are also part of the sea; the area looks crowded to me. Cargo vessels too close to military ships. Are the shipping lanes good in the area?

If a Rogue wave was involved. Which was not.
They both would be sailing into the wave.

Can a destroyer move quickly enough to have avoided this? The cargo ship rammed the destroyer, port aft.

In almost any sea conditions, they can round like 3 times the speed.
Of a tanker. So, yes.

As for Yuge One wave.
They are one yuge and a few smaller waves. For miles and miles.
So no.
You can only head into them.
It does 30 knots. So if an island is near. They can hide behind it.
At night in the rough sea, we go behind islands for rest and sleep.
Running in 45-125 foot boats.

And fish 24 hours still. Tuna! Tuna!..Food... Food!

The problem I have with the wave theory is that it's glass around Singapore in Southeast asia. I think that would be the first thing that would be reported with this article was if there was some typhoon or something causing the issue.

It was a suggestion, freak waves happen in good weather also. Thanks for the information though.

True, they do.

 

[OldLady]

We aren't talking about some stealthy low profile attack ship, these are gigantic vessels ramming us. Not good. We obviously have a "hole" in our Navy defense which is why (IMO) the DoD is fairly quiet about the response.

Commercial Jets have collision avoidance systems (TCAS) that automatically warn pilots when jets get too close to each other in flight. That technology has been around for over 20 years. I thought the Military had a similar system for ships but apparently not.

The last time this happened, a lot of folks here claimed we do have that technology on the ships and they figured people were asleep or something. Some sailors did get "disciplined." I think it's more likely you're right that there is a "hole" in the defense or the technology isn't working properly. Or people who don't like us have figured out how to jam it. There are a lot of unfriendlies on the seas, especially over there. Lots of pirates who would do anything for a buck.

Interesting (of course, sad, for the loss of life, too). I suppose we'll never actually know what the story is.

 

[OldLady]

it's been one sad tragedy after another lately and not just ships but helicopters etc too!

The Obama freeze on military spending took it's toll.....Sequester is costly...we warned you.

You think the radar and warning systems were not working?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Interesting (of course, sad, for the loss of life, too). I suppose we'll never actually know what the story is.

It's most likely just sailors being sailors.

Its a hard job.

 

[Baz Ares]

We aren't talking about some stealthy low profile attack ship, these are gigantic vessels ramming us. Not good. We obviously have a "hole" in our Navy defense which is why (IMO) the DoD is fairly quiet about the response.

Commercial Jets have collision avoidance systems (TCAS) that automatically warn pilots when jets get too close to each other in flight. That technology has been around for over 20 years. I thought the Military had a similar system for ships but apparently not.

The last time this happened, a lot of folks here claimed we do have that technology on the ships and they figured people were asleep or something. Some sailors did get "disciplined." I think it's more likely you're right that there is a "hole" in the defense or the technology isn't working properly. Or people who don't like us have figured out how to jam it. There are a lot of unfriendlies on the seas, especially over there. Lots of pirates who would do anything for a buck.

Interesting (of course, sad, for the loss of life, too). I suppose we'll never actually know what the story is.

These are commercial ships at night.

This is a commercial ship during daylight.

These are all they need.

 

[OldLady]

All the instruments and equipment in the world cannot help in one freak storm.

Was it storming?

 

[JimBowie1958]

The Obama freeze on military spending took it's toll.....Sequester is costly...we warned you.

You think the radar and warning systems were not working?

I have read that old veteran officers feel like the new training schedule is not long enough or rigorous any more.

 

[Baz Ares]

All the instruments and equipment in the world cannot help in one freak storm.

Was it storming?

No.

 

[Slash]

We aren't talking about some stealthy low profile attack ship, these are gigantic vessels ramming us. Not good. We obviously have a "hole" in our Navy defense which is why (IMO) the DoD is fairly quiet about the response.

Commercial Jets have collision avoidance systems (TCAS) that automatically warn pilots when jets get too close to each other in flight. That technology has been around for over 20 years. I thought the Military had a similar system for ships but apparently not.

The last time this happened, a lot of folks here claimed we do have that technology on the ships and they figured people were asleep or something. Some sailors did get "disciplined." I think it's more likely you're right that there is a "hole" in the defense or the technology isn't working properly. Or people who don't like us have figured out how to jam it. There are a lot of unfriendlies on the seas, especially over there. Lots of pirates who would do anything for a buck.

Interesting (of course, sad, for the loss of life, too). I suppose we'll never actually know what the story is.

If there was a hole in the tech, that would be pretty easy to realize, even if it wasn't fixable. Then I think you'd show a system failure rather than blame the crew. And for a pirate, that seems to be the last thing you'd want to do. You aren't making any money off of that wreck, but you are shining a big spotlight on your technology if you had it.

The problem with the radar and systems, is when you are in the straights, any ships movement can cause a wreck, if you made a hard turn you might not be able to avoid a wreck before the system alerts you. Kinda like turning head on into traffic at the last second. Sure your brakes can activate for a half second, but that's not getting you out of the accident.

I don't know how far from the entrance to the Straits of Malacca he was, but here's a picture from there.

 

[Baz Ares]

This happened outside the in the channel, not in the straits.

 

[EverCurious]

Driving a boat is /nothing/ like driving a car.

I am quite sure that the US Navy does not 'drive boats'.

Rough equivalent.

I just know that like I'm an expert car driver, but yachting on the lake was a completely different experience... it was like driving down a glare ice hill in that you cannot stop. Even trying to adjust for the "slide" effect there was often just nothing I could do to stop where I "expected" to once shit was set in motion; because the waves are variable, hell even where people were standing, sitting, or walking around in the boat (and thus how the boat was riding the water) effected it.

Basically, there's a damn good reason there's buoy's hanging over dock edges all over the planet heh

 

[rightwinger]

Interesting (of course, sad, for the loss of life, too). I suppose we'll never actually know what the story is.

It's most likely just sailors being sailors.

Its a hard job.

Playing chicken and placing bets on who flinches first