U.S. Troops Have Been Secretly Training Taiwan's Military...I am sure CHINA is SO SCARED!

[bodecea]

We trained Afghan troops for 20 years and they fell in a week.

I bet China is so so so scared of TAIWANESE soldiers that have been trained by the USA.

China is going to move on Taiwan...and when Biden does nothing, it will prove ONCE AGAIN that he is a Chinese spy.

U.S. Troops Have Been Secretly Training Taiwan's Military: Report

townhall.com

So....you blame American trainers as opposed to Afghan troops.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

These is the kind of US Military that is going to train the Taiwanese?

China has nothing to fear then.


View attachment 550241

We are training the Taiwan army in manicure techniques and the importance of color coordinating shoes and purses.

 

[Silver Cat]

Yes, they do.

As part of our defense treaties with both South Korea and Japan. Which state that an attack on either of them will result in a reciprocal strike on the offending nation by the US. In other words, nuke South Korea or Japan, the US will nuke you back for them.

And as a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, Australia has the same agreement in place with the UK. Nuke one of them, the UK will respond in kind.

The US or UK won't make a reciprocal strike if their nukes are destroyed by Russian/Chinese preventive counterforce strike.
If the war is inevitable, they (and we) have to decide what scenario is less dangerous: uncontrollable escalation or preventive strike.

 

[Silver Cat]

Where are these stealth cruise missiles you keep talking about? What is their maximum range and what size warhead?

There are in Russia. Their maximum range is more than 5000 km (3100 mi). Warhead yield - 250 kt or 1 mt.

Did you forget about our Trident ballistic missile submarines?

No, I didn't. The questions are:
1) How many of them are at sea at any given moment? Less then 8, more often 4-6. You know, the dems want to save money.
2) How many of them will be destroyed by Russian/Chinese forces? One through six.
3) How reliable are those old Trident missiles and how many of them Ohios can launch in one salvo?
4) How good are Russian/Chinese forces in interception of the obsolete W-76-1 warheads? They believe, that they are pretty good.
5) How many Russian/Chinese civilians will those W-76-1 (say nothing about useless W-76-2 ) kill? Not too many. Likely - less than one million.
6) How many Americans will kill Russian/Chinese forces in their third, counter-value strike? More than 100 millions.
7) Is Biden ready to commit suicide just for gesture if there is more or less acceptable alternative? Highly likely - no, he's not ready.

Therefore, there are pretty good chances, that Biden won't order to launch Trident missiles at all.

Buy or borrow tankers? Who the heck from?

From Russians of course. Why not?

 

[Silver Cat]

Which has exactly what to do with the topic at hand?

The USA and allies have almost ignored the Russian annexation of the internationally recognized land of the European state.
Do you really believe that there will be any significant reaction after successful reunion of China?

 

[Mushroom]

The US or UK won't make a reciprocal strike if their nukes are destroyed by Russian/Chinese preventive counterforce strike.

At that point all this silly talk of "war" is over, done with, and stupid.

We are in World War III, a global thermonuclear war. And trust me, nobody is taking out the US nukes like that. Because as soon as an inbound strike is detected, they are all leaving the silos. We have known for decades that if that was to happen, the inbounds would only be churning up the prairies, the nukes will already be on their way to Russia.

As I said, you really can not think things through at all, it is obvious. What, you actually think the US would wait for the nukes to land before launching their own? And apparently you also completely forgot that a significant number of our nukes are actually out at sea. And if tensions are rising to where DEFCON is elevated, expect a return to bombers either orbiting at Fail Safe positions, or sitting on the runways ready to go at a moment's notice. Good luck getting those.

 

[Ringo]

The USA and allies have almost ignored the Russian annexation of the internationally recognized land of the European state.

Did the US and its allies pay any attention to the annexation of Kosovo from Serbia? No? And the annexation of East Germany by the Western Germany? Not either? O.K. Cool.

 

[Mushroom]

How many of them are at sea at any given moment? Less then 8, more often 4-6.

On average, around 8. With half of the others kept in a state that they can put to sea within hours. But we are also at DEFCON Green (old system DEFCON 4). If tensions start to rise, you will see that change very rapidly. When it clicks to Yellow, expect to see the Strategic Forces resume a more familiar "Cold War" posture. All available subs putting out to sea, and others being completed as soon as possible. Bombs moved to bunkers closer to the runway for faster loading. And nukes being put back onto our other naval ships.

And as it gets closer to Red, bombers again orbiting at all times.

You are talking about this like it is a bubble. Like they would just wake up tomorrow and go "Hey, let's nuke America!", with absolutely no reason or lead-up. And you are talking about our state of readiness as it is now, when there is no threat at all.

 

[Mushroom]

And the annexation of East Germany by the Western Germany?

It was a reunification. The East German government completely collapsed. With many in the higher levels (like STASSI) eating Makarov Sandwiches.

 

[Ringo]

It was a reunification. The East German government completely collapsed.

Aaa... O.K. You mean in 2014 government in Ukraine didn't collapse and wasn't removed with violent force driven by nationalist scum? In this case, yes, people of Crimea shouldn't vote like 98% or so for returning to homeland of Russia...

 

[Mushroom]

Aaa... O.K. You mean in 2014 government in Ukraine didn't collapse and wasn't removed with violent force driven by nationalist scum? In this case, yes, people of Crimea shouldn't vote like 98% or so for returning to homeland of Russia...

*looks back up, sees the topic is about Taiwan.*

 

[Silver Cat]

On average, around 8. With half of the others kept in a state that they can put to sea within hours. But we are also at DEFCON Green (old system DEFCON 4). If tensions start to rise, you will see that change very rapidly. When it clicks to Yellow, expect to see the Strategic Forces resume a more familiar "Cold War" posture. All available subs putting out to sea, and others being completed as soon as possible. Bombs moved to bunkers closer to the runway for faster loading. And nukes being put back onto our other naval ships.

And as it gets closer to Red, bombers again orbiting at all times.

You are talking about this like it is a bubble. Like they would just wake up tomorrow and go "Hey, let's nuke America!", with absolutely no reason or lead-up. And you are talking about our state of readiness as it is now, when there is no threat at all.

Did you read about basic military conceptions in Russia? "The suddenness is overwhelming". May be, their attack will be good, may be, their attack will be bad. But their attack definitely will be sudden.
They won't play 'nuclear poker' (with step-by-step increasing tension), they are going to play 'nuclear preferans" (plain-trick game like robber bridge). First - they will decide what they want to take, and are they ready to fight nuclear war if it is necessary. Then they have to decide - are the USA really determined to protect Taiwan. If the both answers are 'yes' - there is no need in the 'uncontrollable escalation'. There will be very short period (hours, may be few days) of 'controllable escalation' and then - 'preventive strike' with the 'postattack blackmail'.

 

[FA_Q2]

With what? They lack the capability to do so. It is not like their army can walk there.

They do, indeed have the capability.

It is laughable that Americans think that the Chinese are imponent. They are the second largest economy in the world and they have a significant military force even if some may think it squalid compared to our own.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They do, indeed have the capability.

It is laughable that Americans think that the Chinese are imponent. They are the second largest economy in the world and they have a significant military force even if some may think it squalid compared to our own.

All of you armchair generals and admirals have no clue as to China's abilities. They have little to no airlift or sealift capability that would survive the first 5 minutes of a shooting war.

 

[Silver Cat]

All of you armchair generals and admirals have no clue as to China's abilities. They have little to no airlift or sealift capability that would survive the first 5 minutes of a shooting war.

There are some ways to do it.

Hostile Harbors: Taiwan’s Ports and PLA Invasion Plans

By: Ian Easton | The scale of an all-out Taiwan (Republic of China, ROC) invasion by the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) military—the People’s Liberation Army (PLA)—defies […]

project2049.net

 

[Mushroom]

Did you read about basic military conceptions in Russia?

*points back up to the topic being about Taiwan, not Russia*

Can you not try to derail every single thread because of your obsession with Russia?

 

[Mushroom]

It is laughable that Americans think that the Chinese are imponent.

I do not think that at all. In fact, they have a very formidable military. The very fact that in 1979 they completely overran Vietnam and piece by piece almost destroyed their entire military in a week shows that for a fact. They largely ran around the country for just under a month, then simply went home.

However, what China lacks is the ability to project their power to any country they do not connect to by land. Any country they share a border with could be quickly torn apart, their land army is massive. I have said that repeatedly, and am saying so again here. However, what they do lack is the ability to project that power onto any nation they do not share a border with.

General Omar Bradly once stated quite clearly "Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics!". And that is exactly what I have been talking about, logistics. In this case, the logistics needed to move men and material from China elsewhere. And to put it simply, they do not have the capability to do that in Taiwan. They have the capability to conduct a strike, sure. But they have neither the sealift or airlift capability to conduct an actual invasion.

Not that they are lacking manpower or equipment, but they are lacking a way to get it there and then sustain that force in the field.

But please, try to contradict me with some actual facts and numbers. In case you missed it, I provide both and repeatedly. I am stating simple facts and numbers. In fact, look at the months of build-up needed in 1990-1991 before the US took back Kuwait. It took months even with the overwhelming logistical capabilities of the US to do that. China has just a tiny fraction of that capability.

The Korean War was simple for them, they just marched their troops and drove their trucks through North Korea. But invade a nation they do not connect to via land? It is laughable unless it is a tiny dot on the map that has a military that is little more than Sheriff Andy Taylor and Deputy Fife. Not because they are "impotent" as you say, they simply lack the capability to move and support such a force via air or sea. Especially in the face of resistance.

 

[Mushroom]

They have little to no airlift or sealift capability that would survive the first 5 minutes of a shooting war.

Which is what I am very aware of, and why I laugh so hard.

They have 81 of their largest transport aircraft, equivalent roughly to a US C-130. The US had over twice that many C-130's to support Desert Storm. Flying over 46,000 sorties. In addition to over 8,000 sorties of the C-141 and over 5,000 sorties for the C-5. Neither of which does China have anything even close to in capability.

Most civilians have absolutely no concept of the huge logistical demands of moving and supporting a military force in the field. Just to move a single Infantry Battalion takes two Boeing 747 liners, and that is just for them and their personal effects. No weapons beyond their individual M-16 rifles or M-249 machine guns. And they only move that way in secure areas, not into hostile territory because that aircraft has absolutely no defense against enemy fire.

Want to move a Regiment? Just the personnel would need around ten 747s, and once again flying into a secure landing area. And a butt load more cargo aircraft to bring all of their equipment. Then you got to bring them food, water, medical supplies, tents, medical support, transportation, fuel, munitions, I can go on and on and on here. I have been part of the planning of moving Infantry Battalions, Air Defense Battalions, and Field Hospitals. It is no joke a massive undertaking.

Twice I was part of organizing and running convoys from Fort Bliss (El Paso) to Yuma. Over 500 miles in 2 days, each Battalion occupied over a mile of freeway with their equipment. And there were four battalions on the move for those exercises (and add another mile for the Brigade Command and Support, Field Medical Unit, Water Purification Unit, Security Unit, and more as we simulated the Infantry, Armor, and Artillery we would have used in a real war). Then constant shipments of fuel, food, and water once we got there. Even a large Brigade sized operation in the field on most US bases is a massive undertaking, requiring months of staging and preparing for the increased logistical demands.

And even a Battalion sized organization on the move (fully motorized) easily is made up of around 70-100 vehicles. Want to land on a hostile shore, and set up your air defenses to counter enemy counterattack? Well, you had better bring all of those vehicles and equipment with you. Want a Field Hospital big enough to support a Regiment-Brigade? Same footprint more or less. What used to be known as a MASH is now called a CASH, and that is the requirements for one to move into the field and keep itself running.

 

[Mushroom]

There are some ways to do it.

Hostile Harbors: Taiwan’s Ports and PLA Invasion Plans

By: Ian Easton | The scale of an all-out Taiwan (Republic of China, ROC) invasion by the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) military—the People’s Liberation Army (PLA)—defies […]

project2049.net

*laughs*

Yes, I have seen that thrown out before.

Want to know what most of those ROROs would be called in such an event?

"Artificial Reefs".

Once again, look back at what I said about the 747. A RORO has absolutely no defensive capability. And the navies and air forces know this, and would be concentrating on those very ships because they make easy targets. They can not even stop the primitive EXOCET missiles of 40 years ago that devastated shipping during the "Tanker War" of the late 1980's. So such would only work if Taiwan was completely asleep, and had absolutely no support.

Hell, look to the little spiff that the UK and Argentina got into. Where with Exocet missiles they took out cargo ships and even combat ships with ease without serious anti-air defenses. Those inexpensive missiles of 40 years ago were destroying with ease tankers, cargo ships, even modern missile destroyers 40 years ago. How well do you think a bunch of ROROs and Container Ships would do against modern ones?

In a shooting war, it matters little. And once again, they would be playing into the strongest capabilities of the US, with one of their weakest.

One thing about the US, nobody doubts their mastery of logistics. They can maintain and keep operating at sea entire Amphibious and Carrier forces. With all resupply coming from ships and their never having to return to port. And can do the same thing with submarines. And have been doing so since before WWII. This is exactly the kind of thing that China completely lacks. You toss out some cherry picked paper, I am sure myself and others can then talk about the capabilities of the US in UNREP.

Once again, Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics. I have been discussing almost nothing but logistics, in case you missed it.

And in logistics, China fails.

 

[Silver Cat]

Just a nice video.

*points back up to the topic being about Taiwan, not Russia*

Can you not try to derail every single thread because of your obsession with Russia?

If we are talking about military aspect of the problem, we are talking about a proxy-war between Russia and the USA. The Chinese, both in the PRC and the ROC are bad soldiers and it's not their way to solve problems. If the USA were 100% neutral, the PRC+Russia would be able to conquer the ROC. If Russia were 100% neutral, the ROC+the USA would be able to defeat the Commies and to restore the reign of Kuomintang or DPP (or anybody else) in the continental part of China.