To all those on the left who question the faith of evangelicals for voting Trump

[Vandalshandle]

What option are you giving them? Do you actually believe they’re going to vote for the party that’s been sneering at them for decades now? Should they go to the party that’s taking out “in god we trust”? Do you actually think they’re going to go with the party that’s for abortion up until the moment of birth and even after? Do you actually think they want to vote for the party that is making it illegal for them to practice their religion in the business they own?

How about the party that’s now attacking them? All I mentioned before was just saber rattling and aggressive stances in the culture war. They have now just fired the first of many shots they’re going to fire in the culture war.

WATCH: Protesters Storm Baptist Church, Harass Children, Assault Parishioners: ‘How’s Your Head Feel, Pastor?’ | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

PS: To the moderators. Don’t you dare move this to any other thread. The left has made this political and politics is exactly where this belongs.

What do we expect? We expect gross hypocrisy from the folks to profess that supporting Trump brings them closer to Jesus' message.

Standing up to Satan and rejecting his lies was Jesus’ message.

President Trump is an excellent example of standing up against the lies of the left.

Given the amount of lying that Trump does, you have to be a total idiot to believe that Trump stands against any lies. He is the lord king of all lies.

What you're saying is that because you disagree with some of the policies of the Democratic party, you support an out right satanist for President.

Do you really believe that Jesus would be happy with Trump?

Can you truly be that stupid?

Can you point out one of these “lies”?

No Dem ever responds.

I'm not a Dem but yes they do. An easy one is in the news right now. His promise to release his taxes.

A big one for me was his lie about releasing his health care reform program that he had ready to go that everyone was going to love and say it was the best.

How about his lie to address the debt?

To get Mexico to pay for the wall? To round up a million illegals? How many do you need?

As I stated, he would had released the taxes if it weren’t for a corrupt DA conducting a witch hunt.
The ObamaCare repeal is solely on the GOP, they cucked out as usual.

Mexico has paid for the wall through tariffs. As he always said, Mexico will pay for it *or* he will make them pay by other means and taking jobs back, which he did.
He has rounded up a million illegals.

you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Why would he or anyone else have to vote for Joe “Fingers” Biden?

Because Joe Biden's accuser has disappeared under the waves, when her story was proven to be a lie. The right should have vetted this woman and her story more closely before supporting her. She claimed she filed a report to the ethics office. She doesn't have a copy, but she has a copy of all of the rest of her employment file. Then she changed her story. She didn't file a report, she had an "intake interview", but didn't go forward with a claim. That's a lot different than "I filed a claim and they did nothing".

Reade took her claims to the legitimate press and no one would publish her story. That's because they investigated her story and it didn't hold up. She published her claims on FaceBook. Republicans, desperate for ammo against Biden, jumped on this opportunity. When her Republican law firm dropped the case, and no one else picked it up, you knew that even the lawyers didn't believe her.

There is no "private alcove" in the Senate Hallway where she claims this happened. Capital staffers said that this corridor is well used, well lit and busy. The chances that he could attack her in this way and not be seen by others are slim and nil. Then there's her long history of financial cons

The right has been trying to smear Biden with lies and conspiracy theories since before he announced his candidacy, and it's not working. Joe Biden is not Hillary Clinton. Republicans haven't been smearing his character and lying about him for the past 30 years. In fact, Republicans have all praised Joe Biden as an honest, and decent man. Right up until the moment he declared his candidacy.

Republicans need a better election strategy than lying about the opposition. It's not going to work this time. Just like it didn't work the last time Republicans crashed the economy, but this time is different. This is like the election of Ronald Reagan. The country is going in the wrong direction, and its' not working. Republican policies have, in essence, destroyed the nation.

40 years of Republican fiscal policies have enriched the Baby Boomers and left everyone else broke, sick and unemployed. 80% of the wealth of the nation is owned by the top 10%. In Norway, that number is 53%. In Canada it's 47%. They're two of the best countries in the world to live in. The middle class in both countries is growing, while the American middle class continues to lose ground.

1. Trends in income and wealth inequality

Barely 10 years past the end of the Great Recession in 2009, the U.S. economy is doing well on several fronts. The labor market is on a job-creating

www.pewsocialtrends.org

What a joke, she was never “proven a liar”, just because record aren’t around from 40 years ago. Biden even apologized for it.

As for comparing Canada and Norway to the US, that’s laughable. Norway is a small country that profits mostly from oil, you know the stuff that is “killing the planet” according to you loons. Not to mention they are entirely an all white population with no bottom feeding welfare types. Funny how that can have a huge effect on quality of life for a nation.
Canada is an even bigger joke, profiting off oil as well, while electing moronic shitbag liberals claiming to be against global warming. Biggest hypocrites in the world.

Yes, she was. The records exist.

Norway has a mixed manufacturing economy and an higher GDP than the USA.

Canada is doing very well and recovering quickly from the shutdown:

Canadian economy may be back in growth phase: Statistics Canada

April was the worst month on record for declining economic activity in Canada with Canadian GDP tumbling 11.6 per cent, but Statistics Canada is indicating the worst could be over. It's preliminary estimate for May has the economy expanding by three per cent. Andrew Kelvin, chief Canada...

www.bnnbloomberg.ca

While Trump was starting trade wars, Trudeau was signing trade agreements with Europe, and the Trans Pacific Partnership. We have trade deals. Our economy is recovering nicely. Our country is opening slowly and safely.

Then why are you so obsessed with the US?

You also failed to address anything I said, that both Norway and Canada get a huge percentage of its wealth from oil and gas. And both of them have an almost nonexistent presence of minorities.

Man, if Trump were to pee in your ear, and call it it honey, you would beg for more...

 

[daveman]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means charitable on your own, with your own money, because you want to.

It does NOT mean you can feel all smug and generous when you insist the government take money from one group of people and give it to another, with no cost to you.

Odd that we can do that for the banks, and GM and corporate farms and Trump businesses.

Don't forget illegals and welfare queens.

Oh, but that's different, isn't it?

Me, I think "too big to fail" is bullshit. Democrats for damn sure disagree with me.

 

[daveman]

No one who is a true Christian will vote for Donald Trump. Maybe they need to review the Sermon on the Mount and consider Trump's words and deeds at rallies and in tweets before they vote.

It's always hilarious when people who hate Christians, Christianity, and God Himself believe they can dictate what Christians should think and do.

Stay in your lane, Skippy.

As a Christian I can understand someone not wanting to vote (D) but I can't understand voting for Trump.

What turned the corner for you? His constant taking the Lord's name in vain? Constantly calling people names? Maybe his lies? The way he treats women? The way he doesn't seem to have any problems with screwing people over?

I'm willing to overlook religious values for certain secular ones: like working for Americans, not hating America, and not wanting to destroy the Constitution.

Free will's a bitch, huh? Have you figured out yet that you don't get to dictate what other people do?

Because it sure doesn't look like you have.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means charitable on your own, with your own money, because you want to.

It does NOT mean you can feel all smug and generous when you insist the government take money from one group of people and give it to another, with no cost to you.

Odd that we can do that for the banks, and GM and corporate farms and Trump businesses.

Don't forget illegals and welfare queens.

Oh, but that's different, isn't it?

Me, I think "too big to fail" is bullshit. Democrats for damn sure disagree with me.

I'm not here to defend the Democrats. I speak concerning what I believe and I support. I'm not sure why you feel the need to interject the beliefs of some irrelevant group.

Do I support public assistance programs? Yes. You say you disagree with corporate bail outs or corporate welfare but continue to vote for it.

 

[pknopp]

No one who is a true Christian will vote for Donald Trump. Maybe they need to review the Sermon on the Mount and consider Trump's words and deeds at rallies and in tweets before they vote.

It's always hilarious when people who hate Christians, Christianity, and God Himself believe they can dictate what Christians should think and do.

Stay in your lane, Skippy.

As a Christian I can understand someone not wanting to vote (D) but I can't understand voting for Trump.

What turned the corner for you? His constant taking the Lord's name in vain? Constantly calling people names? Maybe his lies? The way he treats women? The way he doesn't seem to have any problems with screwing people over?

I'm willing to overlook religious values for certain secular ones: like working for Americans, not hating America, and not wanting to destroy the Constitution.

Free will's a bitch, huh? Have you figured out yet that you don't get to dictate what other people do?

Because it sure doesn't look like you have.

I didn't try to dictate anything to you. I asked you a question. You answered by stating that Christian values really aren't that important to you. O.K.

 

[daveman]

What Canada doesn't have, is the systemic racial discrimmination and social segregation that the USA has.

That is an outright lie.

Canada's race problem? It's even worse than America's.

Terry Glavin, recently writing in the Ottawa Citizen, mocked the idea that the United States could learn from Canada’s example when it comes to racial harmony. To illustrate his point, he compared the conditions of the African-American community to Canada’s First Nations. If you judge a society by how it treats its most disadvantaged, Glavin found us wanting. Consider the accompanying table. By almost every measurable indicator, the Aboriginal population in Canada is treated worse and lives with more hardship than the African-American population. All these facts tell us one thing: Canada has a race problem, too.

The Long History of Discrimination Against First Nations Children

On January 26, 2016, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruled that the Government of Canada (Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada) racially discriminates against 163,000 First Nations children. The discrimination stems from the inequitable provision of child welfare services on reserves and the failure to properly implement “Jordan’s Principle” to ensure First Nations children can access public services without falling victim to interjurisdictional red tape and wrangling.

It was a stunning ruling, coming on the heels of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s listing of child welfare reform and Jordan’s Principle as its top calls to action. The tribunal made it clear that the Government of Canada has known about the inequitable funding it provides to First Nations children for nearly two decades and has repeatedly ignored detailed recommendations developed jointly with First Nations or recommended by the auditor general of Canada to fix the problem. The result: there are more children in child welfare care today than at the height of the residential schools era, and the problem is getting worse.

A look at the historical record shows that the neglect is far from a recent phenomenon.

Canadian governments have known for a long time that First Nations children are not treated the same as their peers in the provinces and territories they live in, and that they don’t get equitable funding for services. As a result, the system in 2016 is ironically (and tragically) succeeding at what it was originally designed to do: remove First Nations children from their families.

 

[daveman]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means charitable on your own, with your own money, because you want to.

It does NOT mean you can feel all smug and generous when you insist the government take money from one group of people and give it to another, with no cost to you.

Odd that we can do that for the banks, and GM and corporate farms and Trump businesses.

Don't forget illegals and welfare queens.

Oh, but that's different, isn't it?

Me, I think "too big to fail" is bullshit. Democrats for damn sure disagree with me.

I'm not here to defend the Democrats. I speak concerning what I believe and I support. I'm not sure why you feel the need to interject the beliefs of some irrelevant group.

Do I support public assistance programs? Yes. You say you disagree with corporate bail outs or corporate welfare but continue to vote for it.

Odd how you're "not here to defend the Democrats", but all I hear is Democrat propaganda.

 

[daveman]

No one who is a true Christian will vote for Donald Trump. Maybe they need to review the Sermon on the Mount and consider Trump's words and deeds at rallies and in tweets before they vote.

It's always hilarious when people who hate Christians, Christianity, and God Himself believe they can dictate what Christians should think and do.

Stay in your lane, Skippy.

As a Christian I can understand someone not wanting to vote (D) but I can't understand voting for Trump.

What turned the corner for you? His constant taking the Lord's name in vain? Constantly calling people names? Maybe his lies? The way he treats women? The way he doesn't seem to have any problems with screwing people over?

I'm willing to overlook religious values for certain secular ones: like working for Americans, not hating America, and not wanting to destroy the Constitution.

Free will's a bitch, huh? Have you figured out yet that you don't get to dictate what other people do?

Because it sure doesn't look like you have.

I didn't try to dictate anything to you. I asked you a question. You answered by stating that Christian values really aren't that important to you. O.K.

That's not what I said. Not at all. Is intellectual honesty too much to expect from you?

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means charitable on your own, with your own money, because you want to.

It does NOT mean you can feel all smug and generous when you insist the government take money from one group of people and give it to another, with no cost to you.

Odd that we can do that for the banks, and GM and corporate farms and Trump businesses.

Don't forget illegals and welfare queens.

Oh, but that's different, isn't it?

Me, I think "too big to fail" is bullshit. Democrats for damn sure disagree with me.

I'm not here to defend the Democrats. I speak concerning what I believe and I support. I'm not sure why you feel the need to interject the beliefs of some irrelevant group.

Do I support public assistance programs? Yes. You say you disagree with corporate bail outs or corporate welfare but continue to vote for it.

Odd how you're "not here to defend the Democrats", but all I hear is Democrat propaganda.

Democrats are full of crap. Obama had the chance to make changes and did nothing. He had the chance to bring charges against those who murdered Eric Garner and failed.

Biden isn't going to do anything. The only thing that works is to burn things down.

 

[pknopp]

No one who is a true Christian will vote for Donald Trump. Maybe they need to review the Sermon on the Mount and consider Trump's words and deeds at rallies and in tweets before they vote.

It's always hilarious when people who hate Christians, Christianity, and God Himself believe they can dictate what Christians should think and do.

Stay in your lane, Skippy.

As a Christian I can understand someone not wanting to vote (D) but I can't understand voting for Trump.

What turned the corner for you? His constant taking the Lord's name in vain? Constantly calling people names? Maybe his lies? The way he treats women? The way he doesn't seem to have any problems with screwing people over?

I'm willing to overlook religious values for certain secular ones: like working for Americans, not hating America, and not wanting to destroy the Constitution.

Free will's a bitch, huh? Have you figured out yet that you don't get to dictate what other people do?

Because it sure doesn't look like you have.

I didn't try to dictate anything to you. I asked you a question. You answered by stating that Christian values really aren't that important to you. O.K.

That's not what I said. Not at all. Is intellectual honesty too much to expect from you?

I'm willing to overlook religious values for certain secular ones:

 

[eddiew]

No one who is a true Christian will vote for Donald Trump. Maybe they need to review the Sermon on the Mount and consider Trump's words and deeds at rallies and in tweets before they vote.

It's always hilarious when people who hate Christians, Christianity, and God Himself believe they can dictate what Christians should think and do.

Stay in your lane, Skippy.

It’s always ridiculous when cons try to claim that liberals aren’t Christians or they hate Christians. Obviously the religious right hates the Constitution, and is trying to overturn it, but we never mention THAT. They want religious tests for public office. They want to be free to discriminate against "sinners".

The religious right already have private church schools to keep their little darlings from mixing with anyone who isn't straight, white, and fundamentalist. At this schools, they that global warning is a hoax. The earth is 6000 years old, and evolution is a lie. They send their children to these private schools because the public schools are "brainwashing" their children.

The religous right has aligned themselves with the KKK, white supremacists, and bigots, racists, and right wing terrorists - all of whom are right at home in today's Republican Party.

Christians my ass.

You have some tremendously stupid ideas about Christians.

Yes, there are a handful of people who believe the things you claim. No, they are not as common as you insist -- or, more likely, as you're told to insist.

Yes, the left hates Christians. I don't know why you even bother to insist it isn't a fact.

You're right They're all hypocrites

 

[Dragonlady]

Bottom line, Women spent 40+ years trying to get the vote & be treated equal, they were insulted harassed beaten, jailed forced fed, pelted with rocks & garbage by MEN while police MEN stood by & did not protect them. ITS about control of your own body. if Men got pregnant there would be NO conversation about abortion.

Bottom line, you have a lot of fucking nerve lecturing about what constitutes "women's equality", what women want and need, and how women really want abortion because, "Ewww, pregnancy!" unless you are yourself a woman.

I am sick up to my ears of the leftist patriarchy mansplaining at me about my best interests, as though they think being a woman makes me too stupid to figure it out without them.

You want to make an argument for the wonders of abortion? Do it on your own behalf, not on mine.

Leftists believe women are nothing more than their genitals, concerned only with abortion and free birth control.

Even leftist women believe that. You never see leftists protesting wearing brain costumes.

And there it is. The hate and misogyny that we see ever time we engage one of these right wing assholes in a discussion of women's rights. Being a misogynistic A$$hole, you know nothing about women, and standing on your white male privilege, you think you have the right to tell us what to do.

We are concerned with abortion and birth control because men have used both to control women since time began. Abortion was legal until women started agitating for the vote. When the women's suffrage movement began, men legislated away our right to control our bodies. That's when abortion became illegal. When women wanted the vote.

When the Equal Rights Amendment passed, the rabid right wingers went after Roe v. Wade. And they haven't let up. At every step along the way, men like you have

Somehow asking for the same amount of money that men make for doing the same job, makes women "shrill and demanding". Asking for equal rights under the lawmakes women "feminazis". Asking that our healthcare coverage be mandated to include reproductive care and birth control, makes us "sluts".

So take your religion and your hatred of women and shove it up your ass. I'm sure you have a lovely compliant proper Christian gal at home who knows her place. You're not going to find any women like that here.

 

[Dragonlady]

No one who is a true Christian will vote for Donald Trump. Maybe they need to review the Sermon on the Mount and consider Trump's words and deeds at rallies and in tweets before they vote.

It's always hilarious when people who hate Christians, Christianity, and God Himself believe they can dictate what Christians should think and do.

Stay in your lane, Skippy.

As a Christian I can understand someone not wanting to vote (D) but I can't understand voting for Trump.

What turned the corner for you? His constant taking the Lord's name in vain? Constantly calling people names? Maybe his lies? The way he treats women? The way he doesn't seem to have any problems with screwing people over?

I'm willing to overlook religious values for certain secular ones: like working for Americans, not hating America, and not wanting to destroy the Constitution.

Free will's a bitch, huh? Have you figured out yet that you don't get to dictate what other people do?

Because it sure doesn't look like you have.

Trump isn't working for Americans. He's working for Trump.

Not hating America. This proves you're a complete idiot. Trump LOATHES America. He thinks it's full of losers like YOU. He's deliberating killing people and destroying the country because he and his friends are getting richer in the pandemic.

Trump is trampling the Constitution under foot. You won't have a country in four years, if Trump is re-elected.

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means charitable on your own, with your own money, because you want to.

It does NOT mean you can feel all smug and generous when you insist the government take money from one group of people and give it to another, with no cost to you.

Odd that we can do that for the banks, and GM and corporate farms and Trump businesses.

Don't forget illegals and welfare queens.

Oh, but that's different, isn't it?

Me, I think "too big to fail" is bullshit. Democrats for damn sure disagree with me.

I'm not here to defend the Democrats. I speak concerning what I believe and I support. I'm not sure why you feel the need to interject the beliefs of some irrelevant group.

Do I support public assistance programs? Yes. You say you disagree with corporate bail outs or corporate welfare but continue to vote for it.

Odd how you're "not here to defend the Democrats", but all I hear is Democrat propaganda.

Democrats are full of crap. Obama had the chance to make changes and did nothing. He had the chance to bring charges against those who murdered Eric Garner and failed.

Biden isn't going to do anything. The only thing that works is to burn things down.

It’s infinitely easier to burn and tear things down than it is to build create and maintain. Our systems work pretty damn well. We don’t have shortages of food despite 100 different moving parts to get the food from the farm to the grocery store. Our power works pretty well despite the 100 different moving parts it takes to get power to your house, and the millions of dollars that went into building the infrastructure to get it there. Do you even understand the process of paving roads? You need stone from a quarry. A quarry that uses very dangerous explosives to extract stone from mountains. Then that quarry needs a device specifically made to screen for the right size stone. Then the quarry needs multiple tanker trucks to ship in 1,000s of gallons of specifically refined oil made for asphalt a week from a refinery god knows where. Then the quarry has to have special machinery in order to mix and heat the perfect amount of oil, sand, and stone. Then the quarry needs another piece of machinery to load the asphalt into dump trucks. Those trucks need to keep the asphalt hot until they get to where they need to pave. Where they need to pave needs to have a certain amount of land dug out depending on how soft the land is. Then they need to replace that land with the appropriate type of stone, depending on how soft the land is, they will use different types of stone in different areas. Stone that they also get from the quarry using special machinery, carried by dump trucks. Then that stone has to be graded perfectly by a bulldozer, and then compacted in by a steam roller. Now you need a very expensive paver, to lay the asphalt. Then the asphalt has to get rolled carefully and perfectly so that cars aren’t going airborne because a roller stopped too fast or too slow. Oh yeah, and the paver has to be set at a perfect level so that water doesn’t pool up in the road. They have one shot to get it right, if they don’t, the road has to be torn up and redone. That’s a relatively simple system that in reality is still extremely complicated that people like you take for granted every day. It took decades for people much smarter than you, and highly specialized in their own fields of explosives, machinery, engineering, chemistry, etc. to figure out and perfect this process so that it runs fairly seamlessly. Imagine an infinitely more complicated system like a healthcare network.

It’s only the narcissistic and rash that believe they can burn down the immensely complex systems intertwined with dozens of other immensely complex systems and rebuild a paradise.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means charitable on your own, with your own money, because you want to.

It does NOT mean you can feel all smug and generous when you insist the government take money from one group of people and give it to another, with no cost to you.

Odd that we can do that for the banks, and GM and corporate farms and Trump businesses.

Don't forget illegals and welfare queens.

Oh, but that's different, isn't it?

Me, I think "too big to fail" is bullshit. Democrats for damn sure disagree with me.

I'm not here to defend the Democrats. I speak concerning what I believe and I support. I'm not sure why you feel the need to interject the beliefs of some irrelevant group.

Do I support public assistance programs? Yes. You say you disagree with corporate bail outs or corporate welfare but continue to vote for it.

Odd how you're "not here to defend the Democrats", but all I hear is Democrat propaganda.

Democrats are full of crap. Obama had the chance to make changes and did nothing. He had the chance to bring charges against those who murdered Eric Garner and failed.

Biden isn't going to do anything. The only thing that works is to burn things down.

It’s infinitely easier to burn and tear things down than it is to build create and maintain. Our systems work pretty damn well. We don’t have shortages of food despite 100 different moving parts to get the food from the farm to the grocery store. Our power works pretty well despite the 100 different moving parts it takes to get power to your house, and the millions of dollars that went into building the infrastructure to get it there. Do you even understand the process of paving roads? You need stone from a quarry. A quarry that uses very dangerous explosives to extract stone from mountains. Then that quarry needs a device specifically made to screen for the right size stone. Then the quarry needs multiple tanker trucks to ship in 1,000s of gallons of specifically refined oil made for asphalt a week from a refinery god knows where. Then the quarry has to have special machinery in order to mix and heat the perfect amount of oil, sand, and stone. Then the quarry needs another piece of machinery to load the asphalt into dump trucks. Those trucks need to keep the asphalt hot until they get to where they need to pave. Where they need to pave needs to have a certain amount of land dug out depending on how soft the land is. Then they need to replace that land with the appropriate type of stone, depending on how soft the land is, they will use different types of stone in different areas. Stone that they also get from the quarry using special machinery, carried by dump trucks. Then that stone has to be graded perfectly by a bulldozer, and then compacted in by a steam roller. Now you need a very expensive paver, to lay the asphalt. Then the asphalt has to get rolled carefully and perfectly so that cars aren’t going airborne because a roller stopped too fast or too slow. Oh yeah, and the paver has to be set at a perfect level so that water doesn’t pool up in the road. They have one shot to get it right, if they don’t, the road has to be torn up and redone. That’s a relatively simple system that in reality is still extremely complicated that people like you take for granted every day. It took decades for people much smarter than you, and highly specialized in their own fields of explosives, machinery, engineering, chemistry, etc. to figure out and perfect this process so that it runs fairly seamlessly. Imagine an infinitely more complicated system like a healthcare network.

It’s only the narcissistic and rash that believe they can burn down the immensely complex systems intertwined with dozens of other immensely complex systems and rebuild a paradise.

It doesn't take much burning to get people's attention. If someone dies far too many do not care. If they think something they own will get destroyed then they get worried.

 

[Correll]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

The left constantly smears and bashes Christians, and then wonders why some Christians don't support them politically.


The left are freaking morons.

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means charitable on your own, with your own money, because you want to.

It does NOT mean you can feel all smug and generous when you insist the government take money from one group of people and give it to another, with no cost to you.

Odd that we can do that for the banks, and GM and corporate farms and Trump businesses.

Don't forget illegals and welfare queens.

Oh, but that's different, isn't it?

Me, I think "too big to fail" is bullshit. Democrats for damn sure disagree with me.

I'm not here to defend the Democrats. I speak concerning what I believe and I support. I'm not sure why you feel the need to interject the beliefs of some irrelevant group.

Do I support public assistance programs? Yes. You say you disagree with corporate bail outs or corporate welfare but continue to vote for it.

Odd how you're "not here to defend the Democrats", but all I hear is Democrat propaganda.

Democrats are full of crap. Obama had the chance to make changes and did nothing. He had the chance to bring charges against those who murdered Eric Garner and failed.

Biden isn't going to do anything. The only thing that works is to burn things down.

It’s infinitely easier to burn and tear things down than it is to build create and maintain. Our systems work pretty damn well. We don’t have shortages of food despite 100 different moving parts to get the food from the farm to the grocery store. Our power works pretty well despite the 100 different moving parts it takes to get power to your house, and the millions of dollars that went into building the infrastructure to get it there. Do you even understand the process of paving roads? You need stone from a quarry. A quarry that uses very dangerous explosives to extract stone from mountains. Then that quarry needs a device specifically made to screen for the right size stone. Then the quarry needs multiple tanker trucks to ship in 1,000s of gallons of specifically refined oil made for asphalt a week from a refinery god knows where. Then the quarry has to have special machinery in order to mix and heat the perfect amount of oil, sand, and stone. Then the quarry needs another piece of machinery to load the asphalt into dump trucks. Those trucks need to keep the asphalt hot until they get to where they need to pave. Where they need to pave needs to have a certain amount of land dug out depending on how soft the land is. Then they need to replace that land with the appropriate type of stone, depending on how soft the land is, they will use different types of stone in different areas. Stone that they also get from the quarry using special machinery, carried by dump trucks. Then that stone has to be graded perfectly by a bulldozer, and then compacted in by a steam roller. Now you need a very expensive paver, to lay the asphalt. Then the asphalt has to get rolled carefully and perfectly so that cars aren’t going airborne because a roller stopped too fast or too slow. Oh yeah, and the paver has to be set at a perfect level so that water doesn’t pool up in the road. They have one shot to get it right, if they don’t, the road has to be torn up and redone. That’s a relatively simple system that in reality is still extremely complicated that people like you take for granted every day. It took decades for people much smarter than you, and highly specialized in their own fields of explosives, machinery, engineering, chemistry, etc. to figure out and perfect this process so that it runs fairly seamlessly. Imagine an infinitely more complicated system like a healthcare network.

It’s only the narcissistic and rash that believe they can burn down the immensely complex systems intertwined with dozens of other immensely complex systems and rebuild a paradise.

It doesn't take much burning to get people's attention. If someone dies far too many do not care. If they think something they own will get destroyed then they get worried.

You just described terrorism.

Terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

 

[pknopp]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means charitable on your own, with your own money, because you want to.

It does NOT mean you can feel all smug and generous when you insist the government take money from one group of people and give it to another, with no cost to you.

Odd that we can do that for the banks, and GM and corporate farms and Trump businesses.

Don't forget illegals and welfare queens.

Oh, but that's different, isn't it?

Me, I think "too big to fail" is bullshit. Democrats for damn sure disagree with me.

I'm not here to defend the Democrats. I speak concerning what I believe and I support. I'm not sure why you feel the need to interject the beliefs of some irrelevant group.

Do I support public assistance programs? Yes. You say you disagree with corporate bail outs or corporate welfare but continue to vote for it.

Odd how you're "not here to defend the Democrats", but all I hear is Democrat propaganda.

Democrats are full of crap. Obama had the chance to make changes and did nothing. He had the chance to bring charges against those who murdered Eric Garner and failed.

Biden isn't going to do anything. The only thing that works is to burn things down.

It’s infinitely easier to burn and tear things down than it is to build create and maintain. Our systems work pretty damn well. We don’t have shortages of food despite 100 different moving parts to get the food from the farm to the grocery store. Our power works pretty well despite the 100 different moving parts it takes to get power to your house, and the millions of dollars that went into building the infrastructure to get it there. Do you even understand the process of paving roads? You need stone from a quarry. A quarry that uses very dangerous explosives to extract stone from mountains. Then that quarry needs a device specifically made to screen for the right size stone. Then the quarry needs multiple tanker trucks to ship in 1,000s of gallons of specifically refined oil made for asphalt a week from a refinery god knows where. Then the quarry has to have special machinery in order to mix and heat the perfect amount of oil, sand, and stone. Then the quarry needs another piece of machinery to load the asphalt into dump trucks. Those trucks need to keep the asphalt hot until they get to where they need to pave. Where they need to pave needs to have a certain amount of land dug out depending on how soft the land is. Then they need to replace that land with the appropriate type of stone, depending on how soft the land is, they will use different types of stone in different areas. Stone that they also get from the quarry using special machinery, carried by dump trucks. Then that stone has to be graded perfectly by a bulldozer, and then compacted in by a steam roller. Now you need a very expensive paver, to lay the asphalt. Then the asphalt has to get rolled carefully and perfectly so that cars aren’t going airborne because a roller stopped too fast or too slow. Oh yeah, and the paver has to be set at a perfect level so that water doesn’t pool up in the road. They have one shot to get it right, if they don’t, the road has to be torn up and redone. That’s a relatively simple system that in reality is still extremely complicated that people like you take for granted every day. It took decades for people much smarter than you, and highly specialized in their own fields of explosives, machinery, engineering, chemistry, etc. to figure out and perfect this process so that it runs fairly seamlessly. Imagine an infinitely more complicated system like a healthcare network.

It’s only the narcissistic and rash that believe they can burn down the immensely complex systems intertwined with dozens of other immensely complex systems and rebuild a paradise.

It doesn't take much burning to get people's attention. If someone dies far too many do not care. If they think something they own will get destroyed then they get worried.

You just described terrorism.

Terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

What country before ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon, and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Thomas Jefferson.

A lot of our liberties have been removed under the guise of "terrorism".

 

[JustAGuy1]

Bottom line, Women spent 40+ years trying to get the vote & be treated equal, they were insulted harassed beaten, jailed forced fed, pelted with rocks & garbage by MEN while police MEN stood by & did not protect them. ITS about control of your own body. if Men got pregnant there would be NO conversation about abortion.

Bottom line, you have a lot of fucking nerve lecturing about what constitutes "women's equality", what women want and need, and how women really want abortion because, "Ewww, pregnancy!" unless you are yourself a woman.

I am sick up to my ears of the leftist patriarchy mansplaining at me about my best interests, as though they think being a woman makes me too stupid to figure it out without them.

You want to make an argument for the wonders of abortion? Do it on your own behalf, not on mine.

Leftists believe women are nothing more than their genitals, concerned only with abortion and free birth control.

Even leftist women believe that. You never see leftists protesting wearing brain costumes.

And there it is. The hate and misogyny that we see ever time we engage one of these right wing assholes in a discussion of women's rights. Being a misogynistic A$$hole, you know nothing about women, and standing on your white male privilege, you think you have the right to tell us what to do.

We are concerned with abortion and birth control because men have used both to control women since time began. Abortion was legal until women started agitating for the vote. When the women's suffrage movement began, men legislated away our right to control our bodies. That's when abortion became illegal. When women wanted the vote.

When the Equal Rights Amendment passed, the rabid right wingers went after Roe v. Wade. And they haven't let up. At every step along the way, men like you have

Somehow asking for the same amount of money that men make for doing the same job, makes women "shrill and demanding". Asking for equal rights under the lawmakes women "feminazis". Asking that our healthcare coverage be mandated to include reproductive care and birth control, makes us "sluts".

So take your religion and your hatred of women and shove it up your ass. I'm sure you have a lovely compliant proper Christian gal at home who knows her place. You're not going to find any women like that here.

Once again you're an asshole liar.

Abortion was legal until women started agitating for the vote. When the women's suffrage movement began, men legislated away our right to control our bodies. That's when abortion became illegal. When women wanted the vote.


Rise of anti-abortion legislation

When the United States first became independent, most states applied English common law to abortion. This meant it was not permitted after quickening, or the start of fetal movements, usually felt 15–20 weeks after conception.[12]

Abortion has existed in America since European colonization. The earliest settlers would often encourage abortions before the "quickening" stage in the pregnancy. There were many reasons given for this, including not having resources to bear children. It was not until the late 1800s[clarification needed] when states began to make abortions illegal. One reason given for the legislation was that abortions had been performed with dangerous methods and were often surgical. Because of this,[clarification needed] many states decided to legalize abortions. As technology advanced and abortion methods improved, abortions still remained illegal. Women would resort to illegal unsafe methods, also known as "back alley" abortions. As of 2020, some women who live in areas with limited access to abortion clinics resort to "back-alley" abortions.[citation needed]

Abortion in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[sakinago]

Do you often find yourself trying to blame others for voting for someone that routinely takes the Lord's name in vain? That calls people names routinely?

Because you do not like the other main candidate you have to vote for the guy who brags about just walking up and sexually assaulting women?

Vs the party that actually calls them names...and wants to kill babies AFTER they’re born. The party that actually vilifies them, and labels their beliefs as “hate speech”. How is them voting for trump a fucking mystery to you? It’s honestly laughable. Your party just tried to block people going to church, vilified them and their kids trying to walk in, and then punched the pastor in the face multiple times.

That being said. To answer your question, even though the OP should’ve sufficed, there was only one dude in the Bible who was blameless. Obviously that was Jesus. The other hero’s in the Bible, even the best of the best, did waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more fucked up shit than trump has ever done. We’re talking having friends killed so they could hide the affairs they had with their wives. Screwing their brothers out of inheritance. Throwing brothers in a pit and leaving them to die. Traveling from city to city to murder Christians. Plenty of hero’s weren’t even part of Israel or the early church. The Bible is not a kumbayah book. It’s a book that clearly says you are garbage, the human condition is garbage, there WILL be suffering from tragic occurrences, there WILL be suffering from malevolent people, you HAVE to be better because you answer to a higher power that laid out these rules that give all of that suffering meaning.

That still doesn't address my point. Just because you do not like one guy does not mean you have to vote for some other guy. Especially one that laughs about sexually assaulting women.

Yes it does. When one party has been vilifying your religion for decades, and has exponentially turned the vilification up to 11...you kind of have to go with the other guy who says that’s wrong to do dipshit. Again why is this such a mystery to you? America wasn’t a communist country. They didn’t really like communism. But we gave the Soviets a fuck ton of weapons and vehicles in WW2. Only 2 of the original 13 colonies insisted on keeping slavery if they were going to participate in bucking British rule. The other 11 had to concede to that or else there’d be no America today.

So why the fuck does it make sense to YOU to tell Christians to “just roll over and let the party that REALLY hates you win by voting for 3rd party”? The left has been calling them hypocrites for decades now. They said the never coffee drinking and wearer of magical underwear boy scout that was Romney was a racist Nazi who wanted to put blacks back in chains and let grandma die. Do you really think they care that your calling them hypocrites now when they already know they’re voting for a guy who publicly bragged about cheating on his wife before he even ran for president? Surprise!!!! They don’t. You can take your self serving advice and shove it. Why don’t you tell the person at work who has the job you want to either get fired or quit, you’ll probably have more luck doing that. That’d be more realistic.

Here are the bald facts. 70% of Democrats are Christians. Your religion has NEVER been vilified by the left. That Democrats and the left will NEVER allow you to do is to impose your narrow and perverted view of Christianity, on the rest of the country. You can hate gays all you want, but you will suck it up and treat them with the same respect you want from others, or you can't have a public business. It's that simple.

If YOU don't want an abortion, don't have an abortion. But the reality is that 13% of all abortions - more than 100,000 abortions every year, are performed on women who list their religion as Evangelical Christians. Your women have just as many abortions as they rest the women in America. But you want to ban abortipon.

When your stated goal is to establish a Christian Theocracy, your in opposition to everything the Constitution stands for. You want to inflict YOUR religion on the rest of the nation, using the legal system. The rest of America don't want your religion codified into laws, and so the left are going to squash these attempts to undermine the freedom of religion for the 80% of Americans who think you people are the American Taliban.

Wow, the American Christian church is now the American taliban. This is the exact vilification I’m talking about. The numbers you listed you clearly just pulled out of your ass.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewforum.org

Christianity can't continue to act in opposition to the teachings of Christ and expect to do anything other than faulter.

Oh I have my own problems with the Christian church and they did bring their demise on themselves. I would like to hear how you think they aren’t following the teachings of Jesus. It probably isn’t going to be what I say. Let me guess, they’re hateful fundamentalist that want to subject the rest of the world to their teachings. They don’t follow the teaching of Jesus that I only pay attention too (Jesus as an all inclusive kumbayah Jesus). Newsflash, Jesus preached much more about Hell and how hard it is to actually walk the “straight and narrow” than he ever preached about heaven.

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Leo Tolstoy

The whole thought that Christians are just hateful hypocrites is the exact vilification from the left I’m talking about. It’s straight up religious prejudice. Granted there are those “Christians” out there. But they are the vast minority. Christians are their biggest critics. But the left are the ones who parade the likes of the Westboro Baptist church, and try to characterize them as the entire christian church. It’s not even close. Yet when someone correctly points out that, hey there’s a lot of fundamental 12ers over there in the Middle East, the left decries that as islamaphobia. It’s also the left who will declare all religions as equal, yet treat Christians like dirt. Christians led the abolitionist movement worldwide. Christians give the most charity worldwide and it’s not even close. The Christian philosophy is 100% behind the enlightenment movement that gives you the rights you enjoy today, including the belief that you cannot mandate belief in God. The American Christian church is certainly responsible for their own downfall. Not at all entirely because of the lefts hyperbolic and even false criticism of them, though there are some valid points made. But to characterize the entire church like the left has been doing for decades, and is doing now is 100% prejudice and wrong, just as wrong as it is to characterize every Muslim as a terrorist. Nietzsche, one of the biggest critics of the church, correctly predicted the immense bloodshed to come in the 21st century in his parable of the old fool. The left loves this parable for the wrong reasons, they only listen to “God is Dead” part and clap without reading the rest.

Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Parable of the Madman" (1882)

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

They aren't following his INTERPRETATIONS of the teachings of Jesus.

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

What is your interpretation?

It means charitable on your own, with your own money, because you want to.

It does NOT mean you can feel all smug and generous when you insist the government take money from one group of people and give it to another, with no cost to you.

Odd that we can do that for the banks, and GM and corporate farms and Trump businesses.

Don't forget illegals and welfare queens.

Oh, but that's different, isn't it?

Me, I think "too big to fail" is bullshit. Democrats for damn sure disagree with me.

I'm not here to defend the Democrats. I speak concerning what I believe and I support. I'm not sure why you feel the need to interject the beliefs of some irrelevant group.

Do I support public assistance programs? Yes. You say you disagree with corporate bail outs or corporate welfare but continue to vote for it.

Odd how you're "not here to defend the Democrats", but all I hear is Democrat propaganda.

Democrats are full of crap. Obama had the chance to make changes and did nothing. He had the chance to bring charges against those who murdered Eric Garner and failed.

Biden isn't going to do anything. The only thing that works is to burn things down.

It’s infinitely easier to burn and tear things down than it is to build create and maintain. Our systems work pretty damn well. We don’t have shortages of food despite 100 different moving parts to get the food from the farm to the grocery store. Our power works pretty well despite the 100 different moving parts it takes to get power to your house, and the millions of dollars that went into building the infrastructure to get it there. Do you even understand the process of paving roads? You need stone from a quarry. A quarry that uses very dangerous explosives to extract stone from mountains. Then that quarry needs a device specifically made to screen for the right size stone. Then the quarry needs multiple tanker trucks to ship in 1,000s of gallons of specifically refined oil made for asphalt a week from a refinery god knows where. Then the quarry has to have special machinery in order to mix and heat the perfect amount of oil, sand, and stone. Then the quarry needs another piece of machinery to load the asphalt into dump trucks. Those trucks need to keep the asphalt hot until they get to where they need to pave. Where they need to pave needs to have a certain amount of land dug out depending on how soft the land is. Then they need to replace that land with the appropriate type of stone, depending on how soft the land is, they will use different types of stone in different areas. Stone that they also get from the quarry using special machinery, carried by dump trucks. Then that stone has to be graded perfectly by a bulldozer, and then compacted in by a steam roller. Now you need a very expensive paver, to lay the asphalt. Then the asphalt has to get rolled carefully and perfectly so that cars aren’t going airborne because a roller stopped too fast or too slow. Oh yeah, and the paver has to be set at a perfect level so that water doesn’t pool up in the road. They have one shot to get it right, if they don’t, the road has to be torn up and redone. That’s a relatively simple system that in reality is still extremely complicated that people like you take for granted every day. It took decades for people much smarter than you, and highly specialized in their own fields of explosives, machinery, engineering, chemistry, etc. to figure out and perfect this process so that it runs fairly seamlessly. Imagine an infinitely more complicated system like a healthcare network.

It’s only the narcissistic and rash that believe they can burn down the immensely complex systems intertwined with dozens of other immensely complex systems and rebuild a paradise.

It doesn't take much burning to get people's attention. If someone dies far too many do not care. If they think something they own will get destroyed then they get worried.

You just described terrorism.

Terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

What country before ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon, and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Thomas Jefferson.

A lot of our liberties have been removed under the guise of "terrorism".

This is true, many have. The founders were dealing with decades of unfair laws where they had no representation, despite basically having their own governments since sea travel to so goddamn long. The king didn’t give a shit either because he figured they’re on the other side of the ocean, can’t get here, nobody on main land gives a shit about their issues, fuck them. Obviously that didn’t work out for him. We’re talking about a country now that uses discrimination to give positive rights to minority groups in affirmative action. A country that is the first ever in the world to democratically elect a minority president. A lone beacon in the world where the government is not allowed to make speech laws. It’s a country that no other can hold a candle to the amount of good it has brought its own people, as well as the rest of the world. People spend half their lives saving up money just to get here to give their kids a better opportunity. America has always had its problems. There is nothing new under the sun. Despite those problems it is still the greatest nation the world has ever seen. In terms of wealth created, infinite opportunities, leading the way human rights (although it may take a bit to get that to apply to everyone), innovation massively beneficial to humanity. That’s not something to tear down. That’s something to build upon. You can try to tear it down like Venezuela, and sustain yourself on the corpse of what your fathers built for a short period of time, until you pick the bones dry. Then you run into a situation where you can’t even turn a profit off the vast amounts high quality oil because you don’t know what you’re doing. You can’t get toilet paper or food to the shelves at the grocery store because you don’t know what you’re doing. And now your country is beholden to Russia and China who come in and say “we’ll help you with your problems, but these resources are ours.”

People listened to MLK. Not MalcolmX. That was the whole allegory in black panther. Even Malcolm X came around, then his own people killed him for it. Do you want the French Revolution? Where like Malcolm X, the leaders of recollection wound up get slaughtered by their own people because they’re not woke enough? It’s what happens every time Throughout history. The night of long knives, French Revolution, Soviet revolution, Joan of Arch etc. That story doesn’t end well. The only times it did were the Swiss Revolution, American revolution, Ghandi, and MLK. These were all extremely principled, well thought out movements. And it’s why they didn’t descend in either utter chaos or terrible tyranny.

We saw within weeks what CHOP became. They became worse than what they hated. They established boarders immediately, had a paramilitary force become police, the guy with the most guns took over, beat up people for graffitiing locations they took mafia style protection payments from, and 7 people died. 3 of them were blacks that got shot.