THIS is why I'm such a passionate defender of freedom of expression. RIGHT NOW. TODAY.

[Mac1958]

It couldn't be much more clear.

All along, I've advocated for freedom of expression as a way to shine a light on this country's problems. The left wingers here (the Regressive Left) attacked when I strongly advocated for freedom of expression on college campuses for even the worst of our society. All along, I've defended the right of paranoid, ignorant racists to say what they're thinking so that I could know, and so that I could know who agrees with them. For that, some of the Regressive Lefties (with their weaponized PC/Identity Politics) called me a racist and a closeted right winger. That's okay.

THIS is what freedom of expression is FOR. To shine the light on the cockroaches. It's the most LIBERAL of American values.

So, thank you, President Trump. Your behaviors and inactions have emboldened so many of your followers to expose themselves for what they are. They have shown this country that real, old fashioned, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, butt-cracking racism still exists, and that we have to address it. Once and for all, hopefully.

In fact, the one thing that worries me the most at this time is that people on the Left will blow this opportunity. We're seeing it with the violence, which only gives the Trumpsters an excuse to change the subject. The Left has to get a grip so that this golden opportunity isn't wasted. This has be done carefully and thoughtfully.

Freedom of expression has been a huge help, but we (as a country) can't fuck this up.

Okay, so with freedom of expression we reveal the bigots for what they are. Then what? Do you then curb their freedom of expression?

In case you missed it in Civics class, everyone has freedom of expression, including bigots.

Freedom of expression is not there for you to use as a weapon against ideological opponents. It is there for you to use as a tool to express your ideas and views.

Gee, ya think?

Nope. We need to accurately know and understand what others are thinking before we can begin the process of improving things. Issue irrelevant. "Side" irrelevant.

It's sad that I even have to say that, but I guess that's where we are.

And what does "improving things" entail? How will that be manifested? This is what I'm getting at.

I don't know how to explain something that should be so obvious.

The goal is to change behaviors on both ends of the issue. How is that done? Through communication, understanding other perspectives, changing attitudes. It's most effective if the communication comes from a trusted source, such as someone on one's "side" of the issue. This is why each "side" has to be honest and hold THEIR OWN accountable.

I've tried to answer your questions, perhaps you'll answer mine:

1. Would you like to see race relations improved in this country?
2. If so, how would you proceed towards that goal?

Thanks in advance.

Best way to improve race relations is shut down CNN and move on to MSNBC.....etc.

That's your plan?

 

[Norman]

In a (very possibly wasted) effort to stop the silly personal shit on this thread, let me ask all participants two (2) very clear, simple, straightforward questions:

1. Do you want to see race relations in America improved, or does it not matter to you?

2. If you want to see them improved, precisely what is your prescription for getting to that point?

Maybe we can inspire some interesting thought.

This thread could have been a lot better had you started with these questions which while not completely in good faith, are at least much more honest than all the Trump derangement nonsense.

1. Good race relations are in American interest, so yes of course we should have good race relations. Burning buildings are a sign that something is very wrong.

2. Treating blacks like equally responsible Americans would be a start. But here we come to an obvious issue. First, this won't ever happen . Second, it is quite clear that blacks do not want to behave like the white counterparts.

Ultimately the solution appears to be that the communities separate. Tribalism is where we are headed at.

 

[mudwhistle]

It couldn't be much more clear.

All along, I've advocated for freedom of expression as a way to shine a light on this country's problems. The left wingers here (the Regressive Left) attacked when I strongly advocated for freedom of expression on college campuses for even the worst of our society. All along, I've defended the right of paranoid, ignorant racists to say what they're thinking so that I could know, and so that I could know who agrees with them. For that, some of the Regressive Lefties (with their weaponized PC/Identity Politics) called me a racist and a closeted right winger. That's okay.

THIS is what freedom of expression is FOR. To shine the light on the cockroaches. It's the most LIBERAL of American values.

So, thank you, President Trump. Your behaviors and inactions have emboldened so many of your followers to expose themselves for what they are. They have shown this country that real, old fashioned, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, butt-cracking racism still exists, and that we have to address it. Once and for all, hopefully.

In fact, the one thing that worries me the most at this time is that people on the Left will blow this opportunity. We're seeing it with the violence, which only gives the Trumpsters an excuse to change the subject. The Left has to get a grip so that this golden opportunity isn't wasted. This has be done carefully and thoughtfully.

Freedom of expression has been a huge help, but we (as a country) can't fuck this up.

Okay, so with freedom of expression we reveal the bigots for what they are. Then what? Do you then curb their freedom of expression?

In case you missed it in Civics class, everyone has freedom of expression, including bigots.

Freedom of expression is not there for you to use as a weapon against ideological opponents. It is there for you to use as a tool to express your ideas and views.

Gee, ya think?

Nope. We need to accurately know and understand what others are thinking before we can begin the process of improving things. Issue irrelevant. "Side" irrelevant.

It's sad that I even have to say that, but I guess that's where we are.

And what does "improving things" entail? How will that be manifested? This is what I'm getting at.

I don't know how to explain something that should be so obvious.

The goal is to change behaviors on both ends of the issue. How is that done? Through communication, understanding other perspectives, changing attitudes. It's most effective if the communication comes from a trusted source, such as someone on one's "side" of the issue. This is why each "side" has to be honest and hold THEIR OWN accountable.

I've tried to answer your questions, perhaps you'll answer mine:

1. Would you like to see race relations improved in this country?
2. If so, how would you proceed towards that goal?

Thanks in advance.

Best way to improve race relations is shut down CNN and move on to MSNBC.....etc.

That's your plan?

A plan that will work.

56 years of talking about it has only made it worse.

 

[mudwhistle]

The left wants race to be like the Palestinian issue in Israel.....something that cannot be solved.

 

[mudwhistle]

Now race has been weaponized into a socialism support system.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Mac1958 answered appropriately:

“I think we'll evolve to a better place, where those on both ends who are preoccupied with skin color are marginalized ... No perfection, no utopia, just the evolution of civilization.”

It would appear you are falling for Mac's demented shtick. Sorry to say so.

There is only one side preoccupied with skin color. They are preoccupied with Whitey's privileged position, and keeping those ill-colored folks away from power, from the voting booth, from every kind of opportunity.

There is another side preoccupied with inequality, which often, but not always, aligns with color divides. Their aim is to make race (and parents' economic status, etc.) less of a determinant of social, economic, and political success (or failure), that is, to reduce societal and political forces that would create obstacles to the progress towards a more equitable society.

These two groups are wildly, wildly dissimilar, but Mac loves to throw them all into the same sack and drown them all the same. Summing up, as long as skin color is a determining factor in a myriad of issues ranging from getting a job interview to police interaction to incarceration, race needs to remain a hot issue in every realm of policy making. Leaving skin color out, as Mac appears to favor, all but guarantees that the persistent inequalities remain as they are, and that runs counter to his purported goal of evolving "to a better place". Think about that, and carefully: In just one phrase, he declares his advocacy and renders it perfectly useless and self-contradictory. There is no better place to be had unless those traditionally relegated to the lower rungs remain where they are.

This is probably not the best place to have a serious discussion of racism and race obsession in America. I quoted Mac1958 only because I agreed with his view that our nation must get beyond crude race consciousness to advance. He is correct to oppose open racists & racialists like Norman.

I believe you are wrong when you say “There is only one side preoccupied with skin color.” Centuries of slavery and Jim Crow has left almost all Americans with various large or small obsessions about race, and African Americans are not immune to all these (mostly negative) influences, be they projections on “the other” or internalized images of oneself. I also don’t think it is helpful here to throw terms like “Whitey” about. As I said ... a complex discussion better had in a separate thread.

 

[Mac1958]

In a (very possibly wasted) effort to stop the silly personal shit on this thread, let me ask all participants two (2) very clear, simple, straightforward questions:

1. Do you want to see race relations in America improved, or does it not matter to you?

2. If you want to see them improved, precisely what is your prescription for getting to that point?

Maybe we can inspire some interesting thought.

This thread could have been a lot better had you started with these questions which while not completely in good faith, are at least much more honest than all the Trump derangement nonsense.

1. Good race relations are in American interest, so yes of course we should have good race relations. Burning buildings are a sign that something is very wrong.

2. Treating blacks like equally responsible Americans would be a start. But here we come to an obvious issue. First, this won't ever happen . Second, it is quite clear that blacks do not want to behave like the white counterparts.

Ultimately the solution appears to be that the communities separate. Tribalism is where we are headed at.

"TDS" = "ODS". Nothing more than cowardly deflection.

But thanks for being honest about what you want. That's what I thought.

 

[jc456]

It couldn't be much more clear.

All along, I've advocated for freedom of expression as a way to shine a light on this country's problems. The left wingers here (the Regressive Left) attacked when I strongly advocated for freedom of expression on college campuses for even the worst of our society. All along, I've defended the right of paranoid, ignorant racists to say what they're thinking so that I could know, and so that I could know who agrees with them. For that, some of the Regressive Lefties (with their weaponized PC/Identity Politics) called me a racist and a closeted right winger. That's okay.

THIS is what freedom of expression is FOR. To shine the light on the cockroaches. It's the most LIBERAL of American values.

So, thank you, President Trump. Your behaviors and inactions have emboldened so many of your followers to expose themselves for what they are. They have shown this country that real, old fashioned, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, butt-cracking racism still exists, and that we have to address it. Once and for all, hopefully.

In fact, the one thing that worries me the most at this time is that people on the Left will blow this opportunity. We're seeing it with the violence, which only gives the Trumpsters an excuse to change the subject. The Left has to get a grip so that this golden opportunity isn't wasted. This has be done carefully and thoughtfully.

Freedom of expression has been a huge help, but we (as a country) can't fuck this up.

What specific thing are you talking about?

If you have to ask (and I doubt that you do), you're not going to understand.

That's okay. Just keep going.

agreed, we don't do Trump TDS

 

[Mac1958]

It couldn't be much more clear.

All along, I've advocated for freedom of expression as a way to shine a light on this country's problems. The left wingers here (the Regressive Left) attacked when I strongly advocated for freedom of expression on college campuses for even the worst of our society. All along, I've defended the right of paranoid, ignorant racists to say what they're thinking so that I could know, and so that I could know who agrees with them. For that, some of the Regressive Lefties (with their weaponized PC/Identity Politics) called me a racist and a closeted right winger. That's okay.

THIS is what freedom of expression is FOR. To shine the light on the cockroaches. It's the most LIBERAL of American values.

So, thank you, President Trump. Your behaviors and inactions have emboldened so many of your followers to expose themselves for what they are. They have shown this country that real, old fashioned, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, butt-cracking racism still exists, and that we have to address it. Once and for all, hopefully.

In fact, the one thing that worries me the most at this time is that people on the Left will blow this opportunity. We're seeing it with the violence, which only gives the Trumpsters an excuse to change the subject. The Left has to get a grip so that this golden opportunity isn't wasted. This has be done carefully and thoughtfully.

Freedom of expression has been a huge help, but we (as a country) can't fuck this up.

What specific thing are you talking about?

If you have to ask (and I doubt that you do), you're not going to understand.

That's okay. Just keep going.

agreed, we don't do Trump TDS

1. Do you want to see race relations in America improved, or does it not matter to you?

2. If you want to see them improved, precisely what is your prescription for getting to that point?

 

[jc456]

If you want to see them improved, precisely what is your prescription for getting to that point?

If I recall, I asked you and you didn't have jack shit. so since this is your OP, then supposed you tell us what you think we should do? It's only been since the civil war and you still think there's issues that haven't been addressed. That implies everything attempted has failed. I agree. Not sure why a people vote for 50 years for the same party expecting a different outcome now wants my opinion. It's simple, stop voting for people who are the originators of the kkk.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Tell me, what do you think is going on here?

The same thing that goes on every day in here. A noisy minority of racist Cult45 boomers anonymously emboldened to disparage minorities from the comfort of a computer. They wouldn't say the things they say here about minorities to their faces in RL. We all know it. They are the type that would tinkle themselves in any real confrontation. They are consistently the same gaggle of racist cowards that have been around forever. Nothing about that has changed.

Do you think the people on this thread really want to see race relations improve?

Oh, hell no. This is a game with no repercussions to the Cult45, so the level of debate is a free for all of anecdotes and emotional responses totally devoid of critical thought. Any news not flattering to the Derp Fuhrer or the political tribe is fake.

I honestly can't figure out the point of these obtuse behaviors, where I'm having to explain the most obvious stuff.

See above.

 

[Mac1958]

Tell me, what do you think is going on here?

The same thing that goes on every day in here. A noisy minority of racist Cult45 boomers anonymously emboldened to disparage minorities from the comfort of a computer. They wouldn't say the things they say here about minorities to their faces in RL. We all know it. They are the type that would tinkle themselves in any real confrontation. They are consistently the same gaggle of racist cowards that have been around forever. Nothing about that has changed.

Do you think the people on this thread really want to see race relations improve?

Oh, hell no. This is a game with no repercussions to the Cult45, so the level of debate is a free for all of anecdotes and emotional responses totally devoid of critical thought. Any news not flattering to the Derp Fuhrer or the political tribe is fake.

I honestly can't figure out the point of these obtuse behaviors, where I'm having to explain the most obvious stuff.

See above.

I watched a documentary on the Alt Right and Richard Spencer last night on Netflix. He and his pals made it pretty clear and unequivocal: They want physical, geographical separation from minorities. It's pretty clear that many Trumpsters are after that as well, including many here. They don't have the intellectual or emotional wherewithal to deal with what's happening, so they're just clinging to something that simply won't happen. They are weak.

At the same time, there are many on the other side of this who clearly aren't putting much effort into healing, either. I pay attention to what they say, too, and my guess is that they're just waiting for demographics to maul their ideological opponents into submission. They seem to be just biding their time until the numbers are in their favor. The danger there, of course, is that it will be about payback instead of healing. My guess is that the Trumpsters know that.

So I think the clock is ticking on any actual improvement of race relations, and many would rather not do any heavy lifting.

 

[BlindBoo]

After just one page and I see you've gotten lots of shiny bugs.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

It couldn't be much more clear.

All along, I've advocated for freedom of expression as a way to shine a light on this country's problems. The left wingers here (the Regressive Left) attacked when I strongly advocated for freedom of expression on college campuses for even the worst of our society. All along, I've defended the right of paranoid, ignorant racists to say what they're thinking so that I could know, and so that I could know who agrees with them. For that, some of the Regressive Lefties (with their weaponized PC/Identity Politics) called me a racist and a closeted right winger. That's okay.

THIS is what freedom of expression is FOR. To shine the light on the cockroaches. It's the most LIBERAL of American values.

So, thank you, President Trump. Your behaviors and inactions have emboldened so many of your followers to expose themselves for what they are. They have shown this country that real, old fashioned, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, butt-cracking racism still exists, and that we have to address it. Once and for all, hopefully.

In fact, the one thing that worries me the most at this time is that people on the Left will blow this opportunity. We're seeing it with the violence, which only gives the Trumpsters an excuse to change the subject. The Left has to get a grip so that this golden opportunity isn't wasted. This has be done carefully and thoughtfully.

Freedom of expression has been a huge help, but we (as a country) can't fuck this up.

Okay, so with freedom of expression we reveal the bigots for what they are. Then what? Do you then curb their freedom of expression?

In case you missed it in Civics class, everyone has freedom of expression, including bigots.

Freedom of expression is not there for you to use as a weapon against ideological opponents. It is there for you to use as a tool to express your ideas and views.

Gee, ya think?

Nope. We need to accurately know and understand what others are thinking before we can begin the process of improving things. Issue irrelevant. "Side" irrelevant.

It's sad that I even have to say that, but I guess that's where we are.

And what does "improving things" entail? How will that be manifested? This is what I'm getting at.

I don't know how to explain something that should be so obvious.

The goal is to change behaviors on both ends of the issue. How is that done? Through communication, understanding other perspectives, changing attitudes. It's most effective if the communication comes from a trusted source, such as someone on one's "side" of the issue. This is why each "side" has to be honest and hold THEIR OWN accountable.

This is all well and good but the reason I ask the question is because there is a concerted effort to silence conservative voices in this country. Just look at two incidents that came up in discussions on this forum:

1.) The Oklahoma State football coach being called out and condemned for wearing an OANN T-shirt. He was exercising his freedom of expression and they vilified him for it.

2.) The Seattle Q13 Fox News crew being harassed and hounded out of the so called "Autonomous Zone".

I've tried to answer your questions, perhaps you'll answer mine:

1. Would you like to see race relations improved in this country?
2. If so, how would you proceed towards that goal?

Thanks in advance.

1.) Yes.

2.) There are many ways we can achieve that goal. However, my main concern in that regard is ways NOT to try to achieve that goal and in fact, these actions hinder progress toward that goal and makes improving race relations that much harder.

a.) Rioting, looting and burning.
b.) Demonizing all police officers and the law enforcement community as a whole for the wrong actions of a few.
c.) Blaming all whites and holding all whites accountable for slavery and racism.
d.) Assuming all Trump supporters are racist.
e.) Assuming all conservatives and Republicans are racist.
f.) Assuming that any time a black person loses out to a white person, be it an entertainment award (Oscars, Grammys, Emmys, etc) or a job position or some such, it is due to racism.
g.) Claiming cultural appropriation for every stupid little thing.
h.) Creating "Blacks Only" segregated zones on college campuses and elsewhere.

The list is endless but I think you get the idea.

The whole "improving race relations" exercise has evolved from a lofty goal of engendering amity and equality between the races to a paranoid witch hunt of religious fervor proportions bent on exposing racists (real and imagined) and silencing them and/or ruining them. It is no longer an attempt to erase racism, it is now a crusade of retribution.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I watched a documentary on the Alt Right and Richard Spencer last night on Netflix. He and his pals made it pretty clear and unequivocal: They want physical, geographical separation from minorities. It's pretty clear that many Trumpsters are after that as well, including many here. They don't have the intellectual or emotional wherewithal to deal with what's happening, so they're just clinging to something that simply won't happen. They are weak.

Agreed. They are weak. I see them as no credible threat to anyone. An annoyance at best.

Got a name for the doc? I have Netflix, and I'll check it out. Thanks in advance.

At the same time, there are many on the other side of this who clearly aren't putting much effort into healing, either.

Respectfully, you're not going to change minds in a place like this. The racist children of Cult45 that roam these halls of hyperbole are pretty feral and too far gone mentally to take seriously.

Anecdote time: In my life, I've seen more improvements in race relations as a result of face to face interactions than anything I've seen from any online interactions, but mileages will vary. Heck, my best friend was raised in a white supremacist household. His dad was an abusive piece of shit with a felonious record that I later on made sure returned to prison a decade later. If this man had his voting rights restored, I have no doubt he would have gleefully joined the Cult of 45.

Fortunately, after 30 years of confronting his supremacist opinions and total ignorance of history, he's now 4 years married to a beautiful, intelligent, charming black women who keeps his nonsense in check and loves him unconditionally, even though he's still an ugly mouth breather (We kid). An unexpected happy ending, as far as I'm concerned.

I pay attention to what they say, too, and my guess is that they're just waiting for demographics to maul their ideological opponents into submission. They seem to be just biding their time until the numbers are in their favor.

Perhaps, and I have a serious bone to pick with these folks if that is truly the case. If they consider themselves Democrats, then they are complicit with allowing the extremist faction to speak for the tribe. They are also complicit in allowing political extremists to flesh out their wackadoo opinions completely unchallenged. They hijack the party line exactly like Cult45 hijacks that of their political tribe. Cult45 refuses to be compared to the regressive left's manufactured hysteria, even though they use the same damn playbook. The arguments are sometimes politically indistinguishable. Surreal.

The media PC death spiral is usually an expected aftermath in mass protests highlighting any change to any societal issues we face. We saw it after the L.A. riots. We saw it after Ferguson. Now there seems to be political extremists (mostly on the left) hired to dig dirt on any past LEO infractions over the last five years to paint a new narrative of systemic racism as well as a frequency of police brutalitiy. Aunt Jemima is a racist bullhorn now. Uncle Ben is a racist bullhorn now. We must remove all historical statues to keep from offending perpetually outraged 'political activist' snowflakes. CHOP is full of antifa anarchists and must be nuked for orbit, just to be sure. It will get much, much worse before it gets better, I think. But, I'm always hopeful we'll get through it eventually.

The danger there, of course, is that it will be about payback instead of healing. My guess is that the Trumpsters know that.

It's only about payback for some of the wingers on this board, and that's cool. These are usually unhappy, miserable human beings with low self esteem to begin with. Their drug is emotion, and the media reinforces feeds their fix 24/7.

 

[Mac1958]

I watched a documentary on the Alt Right and Richard Spencer last night on Netflix. He and his pals made it pretty clear and unequivocal: They want physical, geographical separation from minorities. It's pretty clear that many Trumpsters are after that as well, including many here. They don't have the intellectual or emotional wherewithal to deal with what's happening, so they're just clinging to something that simply won't happen. They are weak.

Agreed. They are weak. I see them as no credible threat to anyone. An annoyance at best.

Got a name for the doc? I have Netflix, and I'll check it out. Thanks in advance.

At the same time, there are many on the other side of this who clearly aren't putting much effort into healing, either.

Respectfully, you're not going to change minds in a place like this. The racist children of Cult45 that roam these halls of hyperbole are pretty feral and too far gone mentally to take seriously.

Anecdote time: In my life, I've seen more improvements in race relations as a result of face to face interactions than anything I've seen from any online interactions, but mileages will vary. Heck, my best friend was raised in a white supremacist household. His dad was an abusive piece of shit with a felonious record that I later on made sure returned to prison a decade later. If this man had his voting rights restored, I have no doubt he would have gleefully joined the Cult of 45.

Fortunately, after 30 years of confronting his supremacist opinions and total ignorance of history, he's now 4 years married to a beautiful, intelligent, charming black women who keeps his nonsense in check and loves him unconditionally, even though he's still an ugly mouth breather (We kid). An unexpected happy ending, as far as I'm concerned.

I pay attention to what they say, too, and my guess is that they're just waiting for demographics to maul their ideological opponents into submission. They seem to be just biding their time until the numbers are in their favor.

Perhaps, and I have a serious bone to pick with these folks if that is truly the case. If they consider themselves Democrats, then they are complicit with allowing the extremist faction to speak for the tribe. They are also complicit in allowing political extremists to flesh out their wackadoo opinions completely unchallenged. They hijack the party line exactly like Cult45 hijacks that of their political tribe. Cult45 refuses to be compared to the regressive left's manufactured hysteria, even though they use the same damn playbook. The arguments are sometimes politically indistinguishable. Surreal.

The media PC death spiral is usually an expected aftermath in mass protests highlighting any change to any societal issues we face. We saw it after the L.A. riots. We saw it after Ferguson. Now there seems to be political extremists (mostly on the left) hired to dig dirt on any past LEO infractions over the last five years to paint a new narrative of systemic racism as well as a frequency of police brutalitiy. Aunt Jemima is a racist bullhorn now. Uncle Ben is a racist bullhorn now. We must remove all historical statues to keep from offending perpetually outraged 'political activist' snowflakes. CHOP is full of antifa anarchists and must be nuked for orbit, just to be sure. It will get much, much worse before it gets better, I think. But, I'm always hopeful we'll get through it eventually.

The danger there, of course, is that it will be about payback instead of healing. My guess is that the Trumpsters know that.

It's only about payback for some of the wingers on this board, and that's cool. These are usually unhappy, miserable human beings with low self esteem to begin with. Their drug is emotion, and the media reinforces feeds their fix 24/7.

It's called "Alt Right: Age of Rage"

For me, this stuff goes back to two things: First, our political system is essentially set up for the loudest and angriest of our population. They get the attention, they have the influence, and the politicians have to kiss their feet. Secondly, and admittedly anecdotally, it seems to me that this tribal shit is metastasizing throughout our culture, and more and more people are becoming infected by it. In that way, too, it seems like the clock is ticking.

I'd sure hate to see either tribe "win" this.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I watched a documentary on the Alt Right and Richard Spencer last night on Netflix. He and his pals made it pretty clear and unequivocal: They want physical, geographical separation from minorities. It's pretty clear that many Trumpsters are after that as well, including many here. They don't have the intellectual or emotional wherewithal to deal with what's happening, so they're just clinging to something that simply won't happen. They are weak.

Agreed. They are weak. I see them as no credible threat to anyone. An annoyance at best.

Got a name for the doc? I have Netflix, and I'll check it out. Thanks in advance.

At the same time, there are many on the other side of this who clearly aren't putting much effort into healing, either.

Respectfully, you're not going to change minds in a place like this. The racist children of Cult45 that roam these halls of hyperbole are pretty feral and too far gone mentally to take seriously.

Anecdote time: In my life, I've seen more improvements in race relations as a result of face to face interactions than anything I've seen from any online interactions, but mileages will vary. Heck, my best friend was raised in a white supremacist household. His dad was an abusive piece of shit with a felonious record that I later on made sure returned to prison a decade later. If this man had his voting rights restored, I have no doubt he would have gleefully joined the Cult of 45.

Fortunately, after 30 years of confronting his supremacist opinions and total ignorance of history, he's now 4 years married to a beautiful, intelligent, charming black women who keeps his nonsense in check and loves him unconditionally, even though he's still an ugly mouth breather (We kid). An unexpected happy ending, as far as I'm concerned.

I pay attention to what they say, too, and my guess is that they're just waiting for demographics to maul their ideological opponents into submission. They seem to be just biding their time until the numbers are in their favor.

Perhaps, and I have a serious bone to pick with these folks if that is truly the case. If they consider themselves Democrats, then they are complicit with allowing the extremist faction to speak for the tribe. They are also complicit in allowing political extremists to flesh out their wackadoo opinions completely unchallenged. They hijack the party line exactly like Cult45 hijacks that of their political tribe. Cult45 refuses to be compared to the regressive left's manufactured hysteria, even though they use the same damn playbook. The arguments are sometimes politically indistinguishable. Surreal.

The media PC death spiral is usually an expected aftermath in mass protests highlighting any change to any societal issues we face. We saw it after the L.A. riots. We saw it after Ferguson. Now there seems to be political extremists (mostly on the left) hired to dig dirt on any past LEO infractions over the last five years to paint a new narrative of systemic racism as well as a frequency of police brutalitiy. Aunt Jemima is a racist bullhorn now. Uncle Ben is a racist bullhorn now. We must remove all historical statues to keep from offending perpetually outraged 'political activist' snowflakes. CHOP is full of antifa anarchists and must be nuked for orbit, just to be sure. It will get much, much worse before it gets better, I think. But, I'm always hopeful we'll get through it eventually.

The danger there, of course, is that it will be about payback instead of healing. My guess is that the Trumpsters know that.

It's only about payback for some of the wingers on this board, and that's cool. These are usually unhappy, miserable human beings with low self esteem to begin with. Their drug is emotion, and the media reinforces feeds their fix 24/7.

It's called "Alt Right: Age of Rage"

For me, this stuff goes back to two things: First, our political system is essentially set up for the loudest and angriest of our population. They get the attention, they have the influence, and the politicians have to kiss their feet. Secondly, and admittedly anecdotally, it seems to me that this tribal shit is metastasizing throughout our culture, and more and more people are becoming infected by it. In that way, too, it seems like the clock is ticking.

I'd sure hate to see either tribe "win" this.

Me too. But I'm an optomist. I believe the rational, critical and intelligent must continue to safeguard our democracy. I believe they will. Those on the wrong side of history be damned.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I watched a documentary on the Alt Right and Richard Spencer last night on Netflix. He and his pals made it pretty clear and unequivocal: They want physical, geographical separation from minorities. It's pretty clear that many Trumpsters are after that as well, including many here. They don't have the intellectual or emotional wherewithal to deal with what's happening, so they're just clinging to something that simply won't happen. They are weak.

Agreed. They are weak. I see them as no credible threat to anyone. An annoyance at best.

Got a name for the doc? I have Netflix, and I'll check it out. Thanks in advance.

At the same time, there are many on the other side of this who clearly aren't putting much effort into healing, either.

Respectfully, you're not going to change minds in a place like this. The racist children of Cult45 that roam these halls of hyperbole are pretty feral and too far gone mentally to take seriously.

Anecdote time: In my life, I've seen more improvements in race relations as a result of face to face interactions than anything I've seen from any online interactions, but mileages will vary. Heck, my best friend was raised in a white supremacist household. His dad was an abusive piece of shit with a felonious record that I later on made sure returned to prison a decade later. If this man had his voting rights restored, I have no doubt he would have gleefully joined the Cult of 45.

Fortunately, after 30 years of confronting his supremacist opinions and total ignorance of history, he's now 4 years married to a beautiful, intelligent, charming black women who keeps his nonsense in check and loves him unconditionally, even though he's still an ugly mouth breather (We kid). An unexpected happy ending, as far as I'm concerned.

I pay attention to what they say, too, and my guess is that they're just waiting for demographics to maul their ideological opponents into submission. They seem to be just biding their time until the numbers are in their favor.

Perhaps, and I have a serious bone to pick with these folks if that is truly the case. If they consider themselves Democrats, then they are complicit with allowing the extremist faction to speak for the tribe. They are also complicit in allowing political extremists to flesh out their wackadoo opinions completely unchallenged. They hijack the party line exactly like Cult45 hijacks that of their political tribe. Cult45 refuses to be compared to the regressive left's manufactured hysteria, even though they use the same damn playbook. The arguments are sometimes politically indistinguishable. Surreal.

The media PC death spiral is usually an expected aftermath in mass protests highlighting any change to any societal issues we face. We saw it after the L.A. riots. We saw it after Ferguson. Now there seems to be political extremists (mostly on the left) hired to dig dirt on any past LEO infractions over the last five years to paint a new narrative of systemic racism as well as a frequency of police brutalitiy. Aunt Jemima is a racist bullhorn now. Uncle Ben is a racist bullhorn now. We must remove all historical statues to keep from offending perpetually outraged 'political activist' snowflakes. CHOP is full of antifa anarchists and must be nuked for orbit, just to be sure. It will get much, much worse before it gets better, I think. But, I'm always hopeful we'll get through it eventually.

The danger there, of course, is that it will be about payback instead of healing. My guess is that the Trumpsters know that.

It's only about payback for some of the wingers on this board, and that's cool. These are usually unhappy, miserable human beings with low self esteem to begin with. Their drug is emotion, and the media reinforces feeds their fix 24/7.

It's called "Alt Right: Age of Rage"

For me, this stuff goes back to two things: First, our political system is essentially set up for the loudest and angriest of our population. They get the attention, they have the influence, and the politicians have to kiss their feet. Secondly, and admittedly anecdotally, it seems to me that this tribal shit is metastasizing throughout our culture, and more and more people are becoming infected by it. In that way, too, it seems like the clock is ticking.

I'd sure hate to see either tribe "win" this.

Me too. But I'm an optomist. I believe the rational, critical and intelligent must continue to safeguard our democracy. I believe they will. Those on the wrong side of history be damned.

As something of a “leftist,” but not a “tribal leftist,” or tribal liberal, or tribal Democrat ... I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I watched a documentary on the Alt Right and Richard Spencer last night on Netflix. He and his pals made it pretty clear and unequivocal: They want physical, geographical separation from minorities. It's pretty clear that many Trumpsters are after that as well, including many here. They don't have the intellectual or emotional wherewithal to deal with what's happening, so they're just clinging to something that simply won't happen. They are weak.

Agreed. They are weak. I see them as no credible threat to anyone. An annoyance at best.

Got a name for the doc? I have Netflix, and I'll check it out. Thanks in advance.

At the same time, there are many on the other side of this who clearly aren't putting much effort into healing, either.

Respectfully, you're not going to change minds in a place like this. The racist children of Cult45 that roam these halls of hyperbole are pretty feral and too far gone mentally to take seriously.

Anecdote time: In my life, I've seen more improvements in race relations as a result of face to face interactions than anything I've seen from any online interactions, but mileages will vary. Heck, my best friend was raised in a white supremacist household. His dad was an abusive piece of shit with a felonious record that I later on made sure returned to prison a decade later. If this man had his voting rights restored, I have no doubt he would have gleefully joined the Cult of 45.

Fortunately, after 30 years of confronting his supremacist opinions and total ignorance of history, he's now 4 years married to a beautiful, intelligent, charming black women who keeps his nonsense in check and loves him unconditionally, even though he's still an ugly mouth breather (We kid). An unexpected happy ending, as far as I'm concerned.

I pay attention to what they say, too, and my guess is that they're just waiting for demographics to maul their ideological opponents into submission. They seem to be just biding their time until the numbers are in their favor.

Perhaps, and I have a serious bone to pick with these folks if that is truly the case. If they consider themselves Democrats, then they are complicit with allowing the extremist faction to speak for the tribe. They are also complicit in allowing political extremists to flesh out their wackadoo opinions completely unchallenged. They hijack the party line exactly like Cult45 hijacks that of their political tribe. Cult45 refuses to be compared to the regressive left's manufactured hysteria, even though they use the same damn playbook. The arguments are sometimes politically indistinguishable. Surreal.

The media PC death spiral is usually an expected aftermath in mass protests highlighting any change to any societal issues we face. We saw it after the L.A. riots. We saw it after Ferguson. Now there seems to be political extremists (mostly on the left) hired to dig dirt on any past LEO infractions over the last five years to paint a new narrative of systemic racism as well as a frequency of police brutalitiy. Aunt Jemima is a racist bullhorn now. Uncle Ben is a racist bullhorn now. We must remove all historical statues to keep from offending perpetually outraged 'political activist' snowflakes. CHOP is full of antifa anarchists and must be nuked for orbit, just to be sure. It will get much, much worse before it gets better, I think. But, I'm always hopeful we'll get through it eventually.

The danger there, of course, is that it will be about payback instead of healing. My guess is that the Trumpsters know that.

It's only about payback for some of the wingers on this board, and that's cool. These are usually unhappy, miserable human beings with low self esteem to begin with. Their drug is emotion, and the media reinforces feeds their fix 24/7.

It's called "Alt Right: Age of Rage"

For me, this stuff goes back to two things: First, our political system is essentially set up for the loudest and angriest of our population. They get the attention, they have the influence, and the politicians have to kiss their feet. Secondly, and admittedly anecdotally, it seems to me that this tribal shit is metastasizing throughout our culture, and more and more people are becoming infected by it. In that way, too, it seems like the clock is ticking.

I'd sure hate to see either tribe "win" this.

Me too. But I'm an optomist. I believe the rational, critical and intelligent must continue to safeguard our democracy. I believe they will. Those on the wrong side of history be damned.

As something of a “leftist,” but not a “tribal leftist,” or tribal liberal, or tribal Democrat ... I agree wholeheartedly.

Cool beans. Thank you, my friend

 

[Mac1958]

I watched a documentary on the Alt Right and Richard Spencer last night on Netflix. He and his pals made it pretty clear and unequivocal: They want physical, geographical separation from minorities. It's pretty clear that many Trumpsters are after that as well, including many here. They don't have the intellectual or emotional wherewithal to deal with what's happening, so they're just clinging to something that simply won't happen. They are weak.

Agreed. They are weak. I see them as no credible threat to anyone. An annoyance at best.

Got a name for the doc? I have Netflix, and I'll check it out. Thanks in advance.

At the same time, there are many on the other side of this who clearly aren't putting much effort into healing, either.

Respectfully, you're not going to change minds in a place like this. The racist children of Cult45 that roam these halls of hyperbole are pretty feral and too far gone mentally to take seriously.

Anecdote time: In my life, I've seen more improvements in race relations as a result of face to face interactions than anything I've seen from any online interactions, but mileages will vary. Heck, my best friend was raised in a white supremacist household. His dad was an abusive piece of shit with a felonious record that I later on made sure returned to prison a decade later. If this man had his voting rights restored, I have no doubt he would have gleefully joined the Cult of 45.

Fortunately, after 30 years of confronting his supremacist opinions and total ignorance of history, he's now 4 years married to a beautiful, intelligent, charming black women who keeps his nonsense in check and loves him unconditionally, even though he's still an ugly mouth breather (We kid). An unexpected happy ending, as far as I'm concerned.

I pay attention to what they say, too, and my guess is that they're just waiting for demographics to maul their ideological opponents into submission. They seem to be just biding their time until the numbers are in their favor.

Perhaps, and I have a serious bone to pick with these folks if that is truly the case. If they consider themselves Democrats, then they are complicit with allowing the extremist faction to speak for the tribe. They are also complicit in allowing political extremists to flesh out their wackadoo opinions completely unchallenged. They hijack the party line exactly like Cult45 hijacks that of their political tribe. Cult45 refuses to be compared to the regressive left's manufactured hysteria, even though they use the same damn playbook. The arguments are sometimes politically indistinguishable. Surreal.

The media PC death spiral is usually an expected aftermath in mass protests highlighting any change to any societal issues we face. We saw it after the L.A. riots. We saw it after Ferguson. Now there seems to be political extremists (mostly on the left) hired to dig dirt on any past LEO infractions over the last five years to paint a new narrative of systemic racism as well as a frequency of police brutalitiy. Aunt Jemima is a racist bullhorn now. Uncle Ben is a racist bullhorn now. We must remove all historical statues to keep from offending perpetually outraged 'political activist' snowflakes. CHOP is full of antifa anarchists and must be nuked for orbit, just to be sure. It will get much, much worse before it gets better, I think. But, I'm always hopeful we'll get through it eventually.

The danger there, of course, is that it will be about payback instead of healing. My guess is that the Trumpsters know that.

It's only about payback for some of the wingers on this board, and that's cool. These are usually unhappy, miserable human beings with low self esteem to begin with. Their drug is emotion, and the media reinforces feeds their fix 24/7.

It's called "Alt Right: Age of Rage"

For me, this stuff goes back to two things: First, our political system is essentially set up for the loudest and angriest of our population. They get the attention, they have the influence, and the politicians have to kiss their feet. Secondly, and admittedly anecdotally, it seems to me that this tribal shit is metastasizing throughout our culture, and more and more people are becoming infected by it. In that way, too, it seems like the clock is ticking.

I'd sure hate to see either tribe "win" this.

Me too. But I'm an optomist. I believe the rational, critical and intelligent must continue to safeguard our democracy. I believe they will. Those on the wrong side of history be damned.

Countries all have, to quote Pink Floyd, a Momentary Lapse of Reason.

Yeah, we'll be okay. This is their final, ugly primal scream.