There is no rapture, Jesus is not coming back in the clouds

[JakeStarkey]

That is quite a stretch of imagination.

Penelope's interpretation of the events of the first century AD is -----CATECHISM primed-------it is utter nonsense from top to bottom. I am really amused that she interprets Josephus
"WARS OF THE JEWS" as a chronicle of "JEWS KILLING EACH OTHER". Lots is KNOWN about Josephus-----as for
"traitor"----nope---not really. Paul left his own writings----
his claim to Pharisee is a bit idiotic. My own opinion is that much of that attributed to paul was---kinds FIXED by the minions of Constantine. Greek was the language of "scholarship" in those days-----especially for the romans and to a significant degree for the jews. It was kinda like French for 19 th century Brits and Russians. Every "lady and gentleman" was FLUENT. The consistent fact of the time is and was-----The Pharisees hated greeks when ASSYRIAN greeks were oppressing jews (see the book of MACCABEES in your hotel bible) The Pharisees (like Jesus) hated romans when the romans were oppressing jews (see New
Testament) Jews killing jews happened less than USA presidents were assassinated. The phenomenon was so rare that such events made it into the calendar

You overstate. The OT is full of Jews killing Jews, check Maccabees as one example, for messing around with non Jews and non Jewish beliefs.

Jewish auxiliary troop units were part of the Roman legions surrounding Jerusalem during the Temple revolt and helped pull down the Temple after the Romans won.

Wayne, the manager is first row, center.
The Deseret News - Google News Archive Search

??? I cannot access anything related give me a hint---
does you citation state that the holy "undergarments" of Jesus were found in Utah?

??? I have know idea what you're talking about.
But we have never believed so called undergarments of Jesus were found in Utah.

It was in Arizona.

 

[irosie91]

That is quite a stretch of imagination.

Penelope's interpretation of the events of the first century AD is -----CATECHISM primed-------it is utter nonsense from top to bottom. I am really amused that she interprets Josephus
"WARS OF THE JEWS" as a chronicle of "JEWS KILLING EACH OTHER". Lots is KNOWN about Josephus-----as for
"traitor"----nope---not really. Paul left his own writings----
his claim to Pharisee is a bit idiotic. My own opinion is that much of that attributed to paul was---kinds FIXED by the minions of Constantine. Greek was the language of "scholarship" in those days-----especially for the romans and to a significant degree for the jews. It was kinda like French for 19 th century Brits and Russians. Every "lady and gentleman" was FLUENT. The consistent fact of the time is and was-----The Pharisees hated greeks when ASSYRIAN greeks were oppressing jews (see the book of MACCABEES in your hotel bible) The Pharisees (like Jesus) hated romans when the romans were oppressing jews (see New
Testament) Jews killing jews happened less than USA presidents were assassinated. The phenomenon was so rare that such events made it into the calendar

You overstate. The OT is full of Jews killing Jews, check Maccabees as one example, for messing around with non Jews and non Jewish beliefs.

Jewish auxiliary troop units were part of the Roman legions surrounding Jerusalem during the Temple revolt and helped pull down the Temple after the Romans won.

Wayne, the manager is first row, center.
The Deseret News - Google News Archive Search

??? I cannot access anything related give me a hint---
does you citation state that the holy "undergarments" of Jesus were found in Utah?

??? I have know idea what you're talking about.
But we have never believed so called undergarments of Jesus were found in Utah.

I am unable to do anything with your link. how about a HINT as to that which it tells us?

 

[Penelope]

No one person or one power had dominion over the development of the bible. That is nonsense. Scholars and men of faith from all continents and persuasions are responsible for the preservation and interpretation of the sacred texts, and they worked off of the originals. There has been no huge, cohesive bastardization of the bible. Rather it has been jealously protected and the accuracy painstakingly preserved. By many. Never has it been under the control of a single person with an agenda.

Don't tell Jeremiah this!

the original writings of JOSEPHUS FLAVIUS are in the VATICAN VAULT--------no reputable scholar denies the fact
that they were-----subjected to TAMPERING.

Only the part about Jesus . My gosh he wrote for Rome, even took their last name and Titus. He was around with all the Flavian Emperors. Father and 2 sons, not adopted sons, but two real sons.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So? That does not make him Paul.

 

[koshergrl]

I have read Josephus, and I don't think he's Paul, lol.

And no, we don't know Matthew, mark, Luke and Paul are pen names, where do you get this nonsense? lolol. ..

Really you don't see a connection between Paul and Josephus, both Pharisees , both shipwrecked, both from prominent families, one a slave turned freedman, one keeps calling himself a slave and tells you how to be a good slave, both very learned and wrote Greek. One killing Romans and the others killing Christians (gentiles) before one is capture and the other seen a vision. Both kept in chains in Caesarea. Paul becomes a slave of Christ (Jesus). Both become traitors of the Jews.


(Josephus goes on and who does this remind you of, Jesus)

Moreover, when I was a child, and about fourteen years of age, I was commended by all for the love I had to learning; on which account the high priests and principal men of the city came then frequently to me together, in order to know my opinion about the accurate understanding of points of the law

(Note below 3 crucified and one survived)

And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands, while the third recovered.

I am not debating whether there is a creator, but the rapture is not happening, the world may be destroyed by man, we may have a huge flooding in the future, but Jesus is not coming in the clouds to fight a war, the end times might be aliens who come and destroy us, who knows.

The rapture happened with destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, a result of the civil war between sects of Jews,
remember Jesus warned,
A house divided can not stand. (by this he meant a country).

That is quite a stretch of imagination.

Penelope's interpretation of the events of the first century AD is -----CATECHISM primed-------it is utter nonsense from top to bottom. I am really amused that she interprets Josephus
"WARS OF THE JEWS" as a chronicle of "JEWS KILLING EACH OTHER". Lots is KNOWN about Josephus-----as for
"traitor"----nope---not really. Paul left his own writings----
his claim to Pharisee is a bit idiotic. My own opinion is that much of that attributed to paul was---kinds FIXED by the minions of Constantine. Greek was the language of "scholarship" in those days-----especially for the romans and to a significant degree for the jews. It was kinda like French for 19 th century Brits and Russians. Every "lady and gentleman" was FLUENT. The consistent fact of the time is and was-----The Pharisees hated greeks when ASSYRIAN greeks were oppressing jews (see the book of MACCABEES in your hotel bible) The Pharisees (like Jesus) hated romans when the romans were oppressing jews (see New
Testament) Jews killing jews happened less than USA presidents were assassinated. The phenomenon was so rare that such events made it into the calendar

No one person or one power had dominion over the development of the bible. That is nonsense. Scholars and men of faith from all continents and persuasions are responsible for the preservation and interpretation of the sacred texts, and they worked off of the originals. There has been no huge, cohesive bastardization of the bible. Rather it has been jealously protected and the accuracy painstakingly preserved. By many. Never has it been under the control of a single person with an agenda.

wrong--------lots of agenda in the NICEAN VERSION ------the version ratified by the ROMAN catholic church-----is all about
ROMAN DOMINION. Later attempts to find or theorize "originals" are nice too. ------you got a copy of the original
Q?. For the sake of my perverted interest-----do you really believe that Jesus went on some kind of magical journey to ROME? (you need not answer if the question annoys you)

Yes because the Bible just screams "ROMAN DOMINION!"

Don't do crack.

 

[irosie91]

Nothing koshergrl says is relevant to Jesus or His love for mankind. She hates. Yes, Jesus will return in clouds streaming glory.

getting back to the OP----and CLOUDS----a reference made by our board bible and Josephus expert-----is really interesting.
It is a known----that the PHARISEES wore white robes----they also hung around mountain sides doing their intellectualizing.
If I remember correctly there are allusions to this fact in
the writings of Josephus. In any case it is common knowledge. Something descending from the "clouds" could very well be ------a reference to a Pharisee scholar taking a walk down from a Judean hill in the vicinity of Jerusalem-----
all the poetic allusions FIT. Maybe the important person lived in SAFED

 

[Penelope]

So? That does not make him Paul.

I don't believe there was a Paul. I believe he was created, but there may of been someone like Paul and Jesus as well, but not as depicted in the NT.

 

[irosie91]

No one person or one power had dominion over the development of the bible. That is nonsense. Scholars and men of faith from all continents and persuasions are responsible for the preservation and interpretation of the sacred texts, and they worked off of the originals. There has been no huge, cohesive bastardization of the bible. Rather it has been jealously protected and the accuracy painstakingly preserved. By many. Never has it been under the control of a single person with an agenda.

Don't tell Jeremiah this!

the original writings of JOSEPHUS FLAVIUS are in the VATICAN VAULT--------no reputable scholar denies the fact
that they were-----subjected to TAMPERING.

Only the part about Jesus . My gosh he wrote for Rome, even took their last name and Titus. He was around with all the Flavian Emperors. Father and 2 sons, not adopted sons, but two real sons.

so? he was OWNED by a roman ------have you ever met a black amercan with the last name JOHNSON? That name comes from the owner of his great great grandmother.
I have a name on my birthcertificate that is not Hebrew. Penelope is a greek name ------as in HERA and Zeus.
were you born in Greece? He did not actually write FOR rome-----he wrote and the "holy" roman empire confiscated his works. ----as in the POOP stole them. Way back then lots of jews were named ALEXANDER or Philip. One of my father's names was PHILIP-----not at all uncommon
amongst jews for the past 2500 years

 

[irosie91]

So? That does not make him Paul.

I don't believe there was a Paul.

just a construct by the NICEAN COUNCIL------could be----it has all the elements------"I used to be a Pharisee but then I came to understand that Pharisees stink-----I SAW THE LIGHT"
Constantine saw a LIGHT too. I believe that there was a Paul---member of the cult of Jesus-----like the mother of Constantine--helen

 

[irosie91]

Really you don't see a connection between Paul and Josephus, both Pharisees , both shipwrecked, both from prominent families, one a slave turned freedman, one keeps calling himself a slave and tells you how to be a good slave, both very learned and wrote Greek. One killing Romans and the others killing Christians (gentiles) before one is capture and the other seen a vision. Both kept in chains in Caesarea. Paul becomes a slave of Christ (Jesus). Both become traitors of the Jews.


(Josephus goes on and who does this remind you of, Jesus)
(Note below 3 crucified and one survived)

I am not debating whether there is a creator, but the rapture is not happening, the world may be destroyed by man, we may have a huge flooding in the future, but Jesus is not coming in the clouds to fight a war, the end times might be aliens who come and destroy us, who knows.

The rapture happened with destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, a result of the civil war between sects of Jews,
remember Jesus warned,
A house divided can not stand. (by this he meant a country).

That is quite a stretch of imagination.

Penelope's interpretation of the events of the first century AD is -----CATECHISM primed-------it is utter nonsense from top to bottom. I am really amused that she interprets Josephus
"WARS OF THE JEWS" as a chronicle of "JEWS KILLING EACH OTHER". Lots is KNOWN about Josephus-----as for
"traitor"----nope---not really. Paul left his own writings----
his claim to Pharisee is a bit idiotic. My own opinion is that much of that attributed to paul was---kinds FIXED by the minions of Constantine. Greek was the language of "scholarship" in those days-----especially for the romans and to a significant degree for the jews. It was kinda like French for 19 th century Brits and Russians. Every "lady and gentleman" was FLUENT. The consistent fact of the time is and was-----The Pharisees hated greeks when ASSYRIAN greeks were oppressing jews (see the book of MACCABEES in your hotel bible) The Pharisees (like Jesus) hated romans when the romans were oppressing jews (see New
Testament) Jews killing jews happened less than USA presidents were assassinated. The phenomenon was so rare that such events made it into the calendar

No one person or one power had dominion over the development of the bible. That is nonsense. Scholars and men of faith from all continents and persuasions are responsible for the preservation and interpretation of the sacred texts, and they worked off of the originals. There has been no huge, cohesive bastardization of the bible. Rather it has been jealously protected and the accuracy painstakingly preserved. By many. Never has it been under the control of a single person with an agenda.

wrong--------lots of agenda in the NICEAN VERSION ------the version ratified by the ROMAN catholic church-----is all about
ROMAN DOMINION. Later attempts to find or theorize "originals" are nice too. ------you got a copy of the original
Q?. For the sake of my perverted interest-----do you really believe that Jesus went on some kind of magical journey to ROME? (you need not answer if the question annoys you)

Yes because the Bible just screams "ROMAN DOMINION!"

Don't do crack.

in fact it does. -----ie the NT. There is also a story somewhere about a magical journey by Jesus TO ROME.
How did you do in high school literature-----remember the term THEME? Peter was sent to ROME to become the HEAD OF THE CHURCH-----rome----got that? ROME. The Pharisees were the BAD GUYS of the NT. --------what was bad about them?-------they REJECTED ROMAN RULE AND THE RELIGION OF ROME. Do you know anything else "bad" about them?

 

[JakeStarkey]

So? That does not make him Paul.

I don't believe there was a Paul. I believe he was created, but there may of been someone like Paul and Jesus as well, but not as depicted in the NT.

You believe wrongly then.

 

[Penelope]

So? That does not make him Paul.

I don't believe there was a Paul. I believe he was created, but there may of been someone like Paul and Jesus as well, but not as depicted in the NT.

You believe wrongly then.

Maybe you do. Tell us what do you really know about Paul, St Paul, Saul of Tarsus.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I know that Joseph and Paul were not the same man, because no logical argument can be made that the writer of Josephus was the writer of Paul's epistles.

 

[irosie91]

[

I know that Joseph and Paul were not the same man, because no logical argument can be made that the writer of Josephus was the writer of Paul's epistles.

you are so clueless I bet you don't even believe that Abraham Lincoln and Robin Hood are the same person

 

[kjw47]

Nothing koshergrl says is relevant to Jesus or His love for mankind. She hates. Yes, Jesus will return in clouds streaming glory.

Jesus is coming at Har-mageddon. Leading Gods armies to this earth--99% will not like the results. 99% of all religion is false.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nothing koshergrl says is relevant to Jesus or His love for mankind. She hates. Yes, Jesus will return in clouds streaming glory.

Jesus is coming at Har-mageddon. Leading Gods armies to this earth--99% will not like the results. 99% of all religion is false.

His return will far gracious than you can possibly imagine.

 

[irosie91]

Nothing koshergrl says is relevant to Jesus or His love for mankind. She hates. Yes, Jesus will return in clouds streaming glory.

Jesus is coming at Har-mageddon. Leading Gods armies to this earth--99% will not like the results. 99% of all religion is false.

cut that final "n" off the mountain Har Magiddo
Armageddon is a greek adaptation, ?? I do not do
greek and have no idea why the final N is added to the name of the mountain------when you enlist-----go to the place
called MEGIDDO-----near a mountain (probably would
be called more like a hill in the USA) as in UP THERE IN THAT THAR HILL......

 

[irosie91]

So? That does not make him Paul.

I don't believe there was a Paul. I believe he was created, but there may of been someone like Paul and Jesus as well, but not as depicted in the NT.

You believe wrongly then.

sheeesh Jakie-----Penny has a theory-----PAUL WAS A CREATION-----like FRANKENSTEIN. Maybe he was a GOLEM----

 

[JakeStarkey]

So? That does not make him Paul.

I don't believe there was a Paul. I believe he was created, but there may of been someone like Paul and Jesus as well, but not as depicted in the NT.

You believe wrongly then.

sheeesh Jakie-----Penny has a theory-----PAUL WAS A CREATION-----like FRANKENSTEIN. Maybe he was a GOLEM----

Penny does that so you does not have to deal emotionally and mentally with "what if".

 

[tyroneweaver]

Penelope's interpretation of the events of the first century AD is -----CATECHISM primed-------it is utter nonsense from top to bottom. I am really amused that she interprets Josephus
"WARS OF THE JEWS" as a chronicle of "JEWS KILLING EACH OTHER". Lots is KNOWN about Josephus-----as for
"traitor"----nope---not really. Paul left his own writings----
his claim to Pharisee is a bit idiotic. My own opinion is that much of that attributed to paul was---kinds FIXED by the minions of Constantine. Greek was the language of "scholarship" in those days-----especially for the romans and to a significant degree for the jews. It was kinda like French for 19 th century Brits and Russians. Every "lady and gentleman" was FLUENT. The consistent fact of the time is and was-----The Pharisees hated greeks when ASSYRIAN greeks were oppressing jews (see the book of MACCABEES in your hotel bible) The Pharisees (like Jesus) hated romans when the romans were oppressing jews (see New
Testament) Jews killing jews happened less than USA presidents were assassinated. The phenomenon was so rare that such events made it into the calendar

You overstate. The OT is full of Jews killing Jews, check Maccabees as one example, for messing around with non Jews and non Jewish beliefs.

Jewish auxiliary troop units were part of the Roman legions surrounding Jerusalem during the Temple revolt and helped pull down the Temple after the Romans won.

Wayne, the manager is first row, center.
The Deseret News - Google News Archive Search

??? I cannot access anything related give me a hint---
does you citation state that the holy "undergarments" of Jesus were found in Utah?

??? I have know idea what you're talking about.
But we have never believed so called undergarments of Jesus were found in Utah.

I am unable to do anything with your link. how about a HINT as to that which it tells us?

I don't recall posting a link.
The link I did post was between me and starkey about a gym manager.
I'm thoroughly confused about what you're asking me. Which at my age ain't very hard.