theists, please give us the creation of man theory

[Meriweather]

Your first “Given” is entirely presumptive and springs from one presumptive version of gods formed by a collection of largely unknown authors.

Your givens are in conflict with hundreds of other, equally authoritative givens.

To proceed from presumptive givens with suggestions of authoritative statements is terribly flawed.

Harmonica was asking how theists think, and many of us theists start with what is in Genesis and the givens in Genesis. Further, the steps given in Genesis are remarkably alike what we know (and teach in science) about the formation of a solar system. Of course, with a solar system, we start with dust particles, and light does emerge from energy before matter breaks into the parts of a solar system. So, as a theist, it interests me that instead of dust, the givens are water, wind, and darkness with the later presumption there is indeed land (dust) underneath all of this water. I also keep in mind that the Genesis account is not about the creation of a solar system, but the creation of a particular planet that seems to have emerged from a great deal of water.

Further, it is with some amusement I note that some who follow science scoff, "God did it" but with great seriousness say, "Evolution did it." No matter who/what "did it" I am still more interested in how it was done. And my question is that if there was light before the sun and moon were fully formed, what in the water and wind caused this light? Some people prefer starting at the end and working backward. I also like to take a look at the beginning and work forward as well.

 

[ding]

could a theist please give us a concise theory of creation of man....in about 10 sentences
IF you have one
thank you

Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

What kind of LSD induced hippie commune psycho babble is that?

The kind that sees God as pure consciousness without material form.

 

[Mytwocents]

Why don't 'evolution' cultists just provide us with the chain of evidence that proves their fantasy is indeed a fact? A simple request for those allegedly all 'scientific n stuff'. Otherwise you trolls have nothing to say except nonsense. It must suck that Genesis has as much credibility as your weird improbable nonsense, and in fact agrees with such 'science' as the Big bang Theory and the 'Adam' allegory is more scientifically feasible than dumbass claims that humans 'evolved' over time, or just spontaneously popped up by the hundreds all at once, fully adult and capable of feeding themselves and wandering around the planet, depending on which silly handwave one chooses to adopt today.

You may want to watch the documentary "Expelled- No Intelligence Allowed " with Ben Stein 2008 . Eye opening indeed...

 

[Mac-7]

God made plants and shit before the sun?
How does that work?

God made plants and shit before the sun?
How does that work?

I dont see that in Genisis

 

[Taz]

Your first “Given” is entirely presumptive and springs from one presumptive version of gods formed by a collection of largely unknown authors.

Your givens are in conflict with hundreds of other, equally authoritative givens.

To proceed from presumptive givens with suggestions of authoritative statements is terribly flawed.

Harmonica was asking how theists think, and many of us theists start with what is in Genesis and the givens in Genesis. Further, the steps given in Genesis are remarkably alike what we know (and teach in science) about the formation of a solar system. Of course, with a solar system, we start with dust particles, and light does emerge from energy before matter breaks into the parts of a solar system. So, as a theist, it interests me that instead of dust, the givens are water, wind, and darkness with the later presumption there is indeed land (dust) underneath all of this water. I also keep in mind that the Genesis account is not about the creation of a solar system, but the creation of a particular planet that seems to have emerged from a great deal of water.

Further, it is with some amusement I note that some who follow science scoff, "God did it" but with great seriousness say, "Evolution did it." No matter who/what "did it" I am still more interested in how it was done. And my question is that if there was light before the sun and moon were fully formed, what in the water and wind caused this light? Some people prefer starting at the end and working backward. I also like to take a look at the beginning and work forward as well.

Our solar system is about 5 billion years old. The universe is at least 13.8 billion years old. There were lots of other stars before our solar system formed. You're welcome.

 

[Meriweather]

Our solar system is about 5 billion years old. The universe is at least 13.8 billion years old. There were lots of other stars before our solar system formed. You're welcome.

A rather clueless response, but I'll thank you anyway. If that is all you know, then it's all you know. Shrug.

 

[Lysistrata]

When did God start making deformed and retarded babies?

"It's God's will". That's the general fallback.

By the way, which of the 3,000+ gods we've followed in human history are we talking about here?

When I read "thou shalt not have others gods before me," I sometimes wonder how many of them there actually were. Then is the fact that there were people living all over the world (except for the poles), at the same time that the Ten Commandments were written and many of these people had no idea what was happening in the Middle East or even that the Middle East existed. Hummm. Many questions.

 

[Hollie]

Your first “Given” is entirely presumptive and springs from one presumptive version of gods formed by a collection of largely unknown authors.

Your givens are in conflict with hundreds of other, equally authoritative givens.

To proceed from presumptive givens with suggestions of authoritative statements is terribly flawed.

Harmonica was asking how theists think, and many of us theists start with what is in Genesis and the givens in Genesis. Further, the steps given in Genesis are remarkably alike what we know (and teach in science) about the formation of a solar system. Of course, with a solar system, we start with dust particles, and light does emerge from energy before matter breaks into the parts of a solar system. So, as a theist, it interests me that instead of dust, the givens are water, wind, and darkness with the later presumption there is indeed land (dust) underneath all of this water. I also keep in mind that the Genesis account is not about the creation of a solar system, but the creation of a particular planet that seems to have emerged from a great deal of water.

Further, it is with some amusement I note that some who follow science scoff, "God did it" but with great seriousness say, "Evolution did it." No matter who/what "did it" I am still more interested in how it was done. And my question is that if there was light before the sun and moon were fully formed, what in the water and wind caused this light? Some people prefer starting at the end and working backward. I also like to take a look at the beginning and work forward as well.

Well, yes. If you presume the Bible is true and then proceed to prove the Bible is true because you believe the Bible is true you can certainly confirm your truths as absolute and unassailable. Additionally, I have to disagree with the notion that the steps given in Genesis are remarkably alike what we know. Firstly, the Genesis fable includes a ratcheting of steps contrary to what occurs naturally. The attempt at comparisons of supernaturalism to naturalism simply don’t work. Admittedly, one of the advantages held by believers is that they can, and do, interpret their holy texts in as many ways as there are believers. All human interpretations gods of those which have been depicted in literature, and all literature is open to interpretation, that means that the Abrahamic Gods can have any number of definitions.

Otherwise, “Evolution did it." is not any sort of counter argument. The process of biological evolution is not dependent on the kind of interpretation that surrounds claims to supernatural gods. That organisms evolve is demonstrated fact. The bounds of evolution is still being studied and through processes of science, and as the tools of science become more exacting, we learn more.

How does anyone learn more about the Genesis fable? How do we test for the gods to study supernatural creation?

 

[Mac1958]

When did God start making deformed and retarded babies?

"It's God's will". That's the general fallback.

By the way, which of the 3,000+ gods we've followed in human history are we talking about here?

When I read "thou shalt not have others gods before me," I sometimes wonder how many of them there actually were. Then is the fact that there were people living all over the world (except for the poles), at the same time that the Ten Commandments were written and many of these people had no idea what was happening in the Middle East or even that the Middle East existed. Hummm. Many questions.

Yeah, I've heard anywhere from 2,500 on one end to 6,000 on the other. Not to mention any number of personal, made up deities.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, yes. If you presume the Bible is true and then proceed to prove the Bible is true because you believe the Bible is true you can certainly confirm your truths as absolute and unassailable.

Who said I presume the Bible is accurate? That is your presumption. Remember, it is you, not I, who take the Bible literally. During our last discussion I was trying to get across to you, a great many of us do not. Until you understand that, you are not going to understand my points.

 

[Meriweather]

Additionally, I have to disagree with the notion that the steps given in Genesis are remarkably alike what we know. Firstly, the Genesis fable includes a ratcheting of steps contrary to what occurs naturally. The attempt at comparisons of supernaturalism to naturalism simply don’t work.

I am not comparing supernaturalism to naturalism. Far from it.

 

[Meriweather]

How does anyone learn more about the Genesis fable? How do we test for the gods to study supernatural creation?

What is supernatural creation? Probably doesn't matter. It is not what I am discussing.

 

[norwegen]

When did God start making deformed and retarded babies?

"It's God's will". That's the general fallback.

By the way, which of the 3,000+ gods we've followed in human history are we talking about here?

When I read "thou shalt not have others gods before me," I sometimes wonder how many of them there actually were. Then is the fact that there were people living all over the world (except for the poles), at the same time that the Ten Commandments were written and many of these people had no idea what was happening in the Middle East or even that the Middle East existed. Hummm. Many questions.

Yeah, I've heard anywhere from 2,500 on one end to 6,000 on the other. Not to mention any number of personal, made up deities.

Counting the number of deities outside the tabernacle is difficult, but in the tabernacle context, these deities did not include any beyond Egypt, the Arabian peninsula, or Mesopotamia generally. Deities of Australia, the Americas, and sub-Saharan Africa had no impact whatever on the Israelites.

The pagan gods of that region were the only ones that the Israelites were tempted to idolize.

 

[TNHarley]

God made plants and shit before the sun?
How does that work?

God made plants and shit before the sun?
How does that work?

I dont see that in Genisis

You posted it.

 

[Meriweather]

When I read "thou shalt not have others gods before me," I sometimes wonder how many of them there actually were. Then is the fact that there were people living all over the world (except for the poles), at the same time that the Ten Commandments were written and many of these people had no idea what was happening in the Middle East or even that the Middle East existed. Hummm. Many questions.

Is it your impression that the Commandments God gave to Moses were for everyone residing on the planet at that time? The intent of the Commandment is about not putting anything else before God. Not wealth, not power, not family--and yes on down the line to totems, rams, and golden calves. That is good advice to anyone, but at the time the Commandment was directed at a specific group of people.

 

[norwegen]

When I read "thou shalt not have others gods before me," I sometimes wonder how many of them there actually were. Then is the fact that there were people living all over the world (except for the poles), at the same time that the Ten Commandments were written and many of these people had no idea what was happening in the Middle East or even that the Middle East existed. Hummm. Many questions.

Is it your impression that the Commandments God gave to Moses were for everyone residing on the planet at that time? The intent of the Commandment is about not putting anything else before God. Not wealth, not power, not family--and yes on down the line to totems, rams, and golden calves. That is good advice to anyone, but at the time the Commandment was directed at a specific group of people.

Her impression was that God was not the only god in heaven. She's just taking jabs at God and Christians.

 

[Lysistrata]

When did God start making deformed and retarded babies?

"It's God's will". That's the general fallback.

By the way, which of the 3,000+ gods we've followed in human history are we talking about here?

When I read "thou shalt not have others gods before me," I sometimes wonder how many of them there actually were. Then is the fact that there were people living all over the world (except for the poles), at the same time that the Ten Commandments were written and many of these people had no idea what was happening in the Middle East or even that the Middle East existed. Hummm. Many questions.

Yeah, I've heard anywhere from 2,500 on one end to 6,000 on the other. Not to mention any number of personal, made up deities.

Counting the number of deities outside the tabernacle is difficult, but in the tabernacle context, these deities did not include any beyond Egypt, the Arabian peninsula, or Mesopotamia generally. Deities of Australia, the Americas, and sub-Saharan Africa had no impact whatever on the Israelites.

The pagan gods of that region were the only ones that the Israelites were tempted to idolize.

I know. But the question remains of whether the gods worshiped in the region of the Israelites existed and whether the gods worshiped in other regions of the world existed. It would make sense that a Supreme Being and Creator of All would have contact with all people across the world.

But I digress from the matter of creationism.

I personally do not believe that any writings considered to be sacred by one religion or the other are self-authenticating, although they may be helpful to an individual's spiritual search.

 

[ding]

Sorry, but I needed more than 10 lines:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”

7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.

8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.

10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.

12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.

16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth,

18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”

21So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”

23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.

25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

When did God start making deformed and retarded babies?

I never heard that one before from you.

 

[Taz]

Sorry, but I needed more than 10 lines:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”

7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.

8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.

10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.

12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.

16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth,

18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”

21So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”

23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.

25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

When did God start making deformed and retarded babies?

I never heard that one before from you.

You STILL have no answer.

 

[ding]

When did God start making deformed and retarded babies?

"It's God's will". That's the general fallback.

By the way, which of the 3,000+ gods we've followed in human history are we talking about here?

Seems like a foolish argument to me.