The Weightlifting Thread

[Semper Fi]

I like to lift weights, usually 4 or 5 days a week at the gym. I started it and maintained it statically since January, though I lifted my first dumbell in 5th grade. Since 5th grade I lifted off and on, so when I seriously started in January I had a nice base going. My favorite things to work are upper body. Biceps, triceps, pecs, delts, all those. I find working legs rather boring, but I do run sometimes.

According to a bow-flex poster in my garage, the average guy can bench-press 93% of their body weight. I currently weigh 150 pounds, and can bench 180 or so, on good days, which is 120% of my body weight, so I must be doing something right.

In case you are wondering, there is a purpose to this thread. First of all regarding supplements. Since January, I've been taking one or two servings of Six Star Advanced Whey Protein after my workouts. Is this really considered a supplement, because all it really is is pretein, right?

Second, people say to work different parts of the body on different days, i.e. arms one day, chest and back the next, upper legs after that, etc. IS this really necessary?

 

[5stringJeff]

I can't answer the first question. Don't know anything about them.

As to the second question, it is necessary to rest your muscles after lifting. When you lift weights, you are actually producing miniscule tears in the muscle fibers. You need to allow your muscles a couple of days to rebuild, during which time they will actually grow (i.e. there will be more muscle fibers, making you stronger). That's why you work chest one day, legs the next, etc. Depending on who you talk to, you need to give a muscle group 2 or 3 days to rest. If you're lifting 4 days a week, I would suggest splitting your lifting into upper and lower body and alternating like that.

Also, make sure that you vary the lifts you do every couple of months. In other words, do bench press for a couple of months, then do incline press. This will make you stronger, as it varies the motions you use, and therefore builds a different part of your muscle.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

This will make you stronger, as it varies the motions you use, and therefore builds a different part of your muscle.

...as well as better develop the core muscles used (but not directly targeted).

 

[Gunny]

I like to lift weights, usually 4 or 5 days a week at the gym. I started it and maintained it statically since January, though I lifted my first dumbell in 5th grade. Since 5th grade I lifted off and on, so when I seriously started in January I had a nice base going. My favorite things to work are upper body. Biceps, triceps, pecs, delts, all those. I find working legs rather boring, but I do run sometimes.

According to a bow-flex poster in my garage, the average guy can bench-press 93% of their body weight. I currently weigh 150 pounds, and can bench 180 or so, on good days, which is 120% of my body weight, so I must be doing something right.

In case you are wondering, there is a purpose to this thread. First of all regarding supplements. Since January, I've been taking one or two servings of Six Star Advanced Whey Protein after my workouts. Is this really considered a supplement, because all it really is is pretein, right?

Second, people say to work different parts of the body on different days, i.e. arms one day, chest and back the next, upper legs after that, etc. IS this really necessary?

If you use a bowflex youprobably won't EVER benchpress more than 93% of your bodyweight. That, btw is a really SAD statement. Try this measuring stick instead:

Your body X 20 reps; or,

Twice your bodyweight for a one-rep max.

You should be able to at a minimum stand and press your own bodyweight over your head.

Working legs IS boring; however, they support the rest of your body. If put on a lot of upper body weight and neglect your legs, not only will you look dorky, but your foundation will be weak. Lifting weights for your upper body with a weak foundation leads to knee and back problems.

There is no "magic pill" avaiable at your local GNC. And trust me, I've tried just about every gimmick they came out with during the 80s and 90s. The best results I ever had was just simply eating a lot of protein.

While I still run my 3 every day, it is counterproductive to strength training. Doesn't mean you can't get stronger/bigger. It just means it could hurt you at the top end, and it's harder to put on bodyweight.

 

[Gunny]

I can't answer the first question. Don't know anything about them.

As to the second question, it is necessary to rest your muscles after lifting. When you lift weights, you are actually producing miniscule tears in the muscle fibers. You need to allow your muscles a couple of days to rebuild, during which time they will actually grow (i.e. there will be more muscle fibers, making you stronger). That's why you work chest one day, legs the next, etc. Depending on who you talk to, you need to give a muscle group 2 or 3 days to rest. If you're lifting 4 days a week, I would suggest splitting your lifting into upper and lower body and alternating like that.

Also, make sure that you vary the lifts you do every couple of months. In other words, do bench press for a couple of months, then do incline press. This will make you stronger, as it varies the motions you use, and therefore builds a different part of your muscle.

It actually depends not on who you talk to, but what stage SF is at. If he's a beginner, he can do full body workouts M-W-F. It's more like circuit training, but it gets your body used to handling weight, and the proper movements.

You go into those twice a week or 4 day splits once you start using heavier weights and doing more sets. I AM impressed that you understand how a muscle is built. I thought it was a secret.

What's missing here is a stated goal. THAT more than anything will determine what he should be doing.

 

[Gunny]

Do a variation of exercises on the same muscle group during the same workout, you should change the routine periodically to shock your muscles into growth.It is essential that you rest your body between workouts to allow the muscles to recover(I should follow my own advice)You get around this problem by exercising different muscle groups on alternative days.Do not neglect your legs, you could look silly on the beach.

Most freely available supplements are just weight gain products, you get the same effect by eating icecream or taking those much cheaper products they use for the elderly or infirm to put weight on them.
Try Creatine, it really does work.

Don't neglect your heart, do some cardiovascular work, people forget that the heart is a muscle, you need to keep it strong to carry all that extra bulk around.

Don't ever be tempted to take steroids, stuff of losers.

Stick with it, you will be amazed at the self esteem it will generate in you and the kudos you will recieve from others.

Get a partner to train with he/she will add considerably to the poundage you can pump.

You're one of those guys that believes the government hype, huh? A bunch of hogwash. Steroids harm people the same way drinking a 5th every day or smoking 4 packs of cigarettes of day, or indulge in anything to the extreme.

Used responsibly, they do exactly what they say they will. The government's war on steroids in the 80s was nothing more than a witchhunt using extreme examples as the norm.

And no, I don't take them, nor do I advocate using them for the simple reason that when you stop using them, you lose whatever gains they gave you. I prefer my strength to be real.

At the same time, that "steroids is for losers" line is hogwash, IMO.

 

[USViking]

I like to lift weights, usually 4 or 5 days a week at the gym. I started it and maintained it statically since January, though I lifted my first dumbell in 5th grade. Since 5th grade I lifted off and on, so when I seriously started in January I had a nice base going. My favorite things to work are upper body. Biceps, triceps, pecs, delts, all those. I find working legs rather boring, but I do run sometimes.

According to a bow-flex poster in my garage, the average guy can bench-press 93% of their body weight. I currently weigh 150 pounds, and can bench 180 or so, on good days, which is 120% of my body weight, so I must be doing something right.

You are of to a great start- keep it up, and you will
be doing well over 200 by the end of the year.

I never enjoyed leg work either, but enjoyed jogging,
and worked my my up to about 40 miles a week at one
point. Half that would probably be more than enough
for good leg strength. I did find that knee extensions
seemed to be a good aid for running.

In case you are wondering, there is a purpose to this thread. First of all regarding supplements. Since January, I've been taking one or two servings of Six Star Advanced Whey Protein after my workouts. Is this really considered a supplement, because all it really is is pretein, right?

I am skeptical about supplements. 100g or more protein
per day is easliy available in regular food.

I have used nutritional yeast, which I consider regular
food rather than a supplement. One tbsp contains about
4.5g of protein, and it is also one of the richest known
sources of B-complex vitamins. If you try it, be sure to
get it in the "flake" form, which dissolves easliy, and has
a pleasant taste (mild chestnut).

Second, people say to work different parts of the body on different days, i.e. arms one day, chest and back the next, upper legs after that, etc. IS this really necessary?

I wish I knew for sure. My own experience has been
a decline in weight liftable from Monday to Friday,
no matter what routine I used.

In 2001, after a nine-year layoff, I started lifting again.
I did bench presses 2-3 days a week and "preacher"
one-arm dumbell curls only.

On the first day my absolute max. on the bench was
165, but in two months I got to 240 (body weight 150).
I forget what I started with on the curls; I got to 2-3
reps with 60 at the end of the same period.

I probably over trained- I did 13k aggregate in one
workout, and came up with a sore shoulder. Since then,
substituting pushups for bench presses on and off, my
shoulder recovered, and I got to 265 on the bench.
That proved to be a wall I could not pass, so for the
last two years I have stuck with pushups, which I highly
recommend.

 

[USViking]

You're one of those guys that believes the government hype, huh? A bunch of hogwash. Steroids harm people the same way drinking a 5th every day or smoking 4 packs of cigarettes of day, or indulge in anything to the extreme.

Used responsibly, they do exactly what they say they will. The government's war on steroids in the 80s was nothing more than a witchhunt using extreme examples as the norm.

And no, I don't take them, nor do I advocate using them for the simple reason that when you stop using them, you lose whatever gains they gave you. I prefer my strength to be real.

At the same time, that "steroids is for losers" line is hogwash, IMO.

Steroids ARE for losers, and cheaters as well.

We are reaching the point in all sport world-wide
where it is not the best athletes who win, but
the dope fiends with the best pushers and the best
drugs.

How about Human Growth Hormone?- since steroids
"used responsibly" have your approval, I would think
the even more efficacious HGH would get a rave review
from you.

Steroids suck, people who use them suck, and people
who make excuses for them suck.

 

[Gunny]

Steroids ARE for losers, and cheaters as well.

We are reaching the point in all sport world-wide
where it is not the best athletes who win, but
the dope fiends with the best pushers and the best
drugs.

How about Human Growth Hormone?- since steroids
"used responsibly" have your approval, I would think
the even more efficacious HGH would get a rave review
from you.

Steroids suck, people who use them suck, and people
who make excuses for them suck.

And whining is for whiners. Ignorant little fucks like you who would do far better educating yourself on the topic rather than sermonizing SUCK. You don't know what the Hell you're talking about.

First, I expressly stated I do not advocate the use of steroids and why. Next time, before going off the deep end with your ranting, try reading what's being said instead of rolling out your uneducated propaganda.

What's this "we" shit? Are you a professional athlete? If not, shut your suck. Maybe you should find something more constructive to do than glue your mug to the boob tube watching others do what you can't and living vicariously through THEIR achievements.

And finally, nind your own fucking business. I don't give a rat's ass what some nimrod puppy thinks of my opinion, and I surely wasn't offering it to YOUR ignorant ass.

 

[USViking]

And whining is for whiners. Ignorant little fucks like you who would do far better educating yourself on the topic rather than sermonizing SUCK. You don't know what the Hell you're talking about.

I know every Olympics since testing was introduced some big gun
gets canned, and that is with random testing performed after all the
competitors have had a chance to go off their dope 2-3 weeks earlier,
thereby keeping their unfair edge while (usually) having enough time
for traces of the dope to wash out of their systems.

First, I expressly stated I do not advocate the use of steroids and why.

Yeah- you said “when you stop using them you lose whatever gains
they gave you”, which I take to mean if the gains were permanent,
then you would have no objection. Now, how about HGH?- too much
for your budget, or you don’t wish to take a chance on getting caught
with a controlled substance?

Next time, before going off the deep end with your ranting, try reading what's being said instead of rolling out your uneducated propaganda.

This is not a case where I need to do any more reading; it is case
where you should do some more examining of your own conscience.

What's this "we" shit? Are you a professional athlete?

Haven’t you ever heard of the “Editorial We”?

When I was in my mid-thirties I had my shirt off in front of a doctor,
and he asked me if I was a professional athlete. And I looked just
as good a couple of years ago, at over 50, if I do say so myself . I also
have to admit I have let it slide for a while, though.

If not, shut your suck.

I say what I wanna say.

Maybe you should find something more constructive to do than glue your mug to the boob tube watching others do what you can't and living vicariously through THEIR achievements.

I would rather live the way I have than cheat my way to the bank
like all those steroid-bloated goons whose miscreant behavior you
have taken it upon yourself to defend.

And finally, nind your own fucking business. I don't give a rat's ass what some nimrod puppy thinks of my opinion, and I surely wasn't offering it to YOUR ignorant ass.

Any time you or anyone else posts here you are fair game for me.
I you don’t like it, then don’t post.

 

[Gunny]

I know every Olympics since testing was introduced some big gun
gets canned, and that is with random testing performed after all the
competitors have had a chance to go off their dope 2-3 weeks earlier,
thereby keeping their unfair edge while (usually) having enough time
for traces of the dope to wash out of their systems.





Yeah- you said “when you stop using them you lose whatever gains
they gave you”, which I take to mean if the gains were permanent,
then you would have no objection. Now, how about HGH?- too much
for your budget, or you don’t wish to take a chance on getting caught
with a controlled substance?





This is not a case where I need to do any more reading; it is case
where you should do some more examining of your own conscience.





Haven’t you ever heard of the “Editorial We”?

When I was in my mid-thirties I had my shirt off in front of a doctor,
and he asked me if I was a professional athlete. And I looked just
as good a couple of years ago, at over 50, if I do say so myself . I also
have to admit I have let it slide for a while, though.





I say what I wanna say.





I would rather live the way I have than cheat my way to the bank
like all those steroid-bloated goons whose miscreant behavior you
have taken it upon yourself to defend.





Any time you or anyone else posts here you are fair game for me.
I you don’t like it, then don’t post.

So your basic problem is that your overly-sanctimonious ass has a problem with my not forcing my moral viewpoint on others as it pertains to this topic? You need to get over yourself.

I have no moral objection to steroids because quite frankly, there is no reason to have one except in the petty, mind-everyone-else's business pea-sized brains of people like you. My conscience is quite clear on the topic, thanks.

I'm wondering if you comprehend the English language at this point. WHERE do I advocate or defend professional athletes using steroids? Where have I even advocated steroids as athletic performance enhancement? I don't, and I haven't. That's just you jumping to conclusions. The one thing you appear to be quite adept at.

If you don't like my personal reasons for choosing to not use them, tough shit. For one thing, steroids were perfectly legal and did not carry the social stigma they do today at the time I made the decision. So there was NO "moral" consideration at the time.

Your first sentence is evidence of your ignorance. If you stop taking steroids for 2-3 weeks and they can't be detected, they're orals, and if they aren't in your system to hurt you, they aren't in your system to help you.

The fact of the matter is the only people who get caught are the ones who won't shell out for the latest-greatest masking agent, and they're in oil-based injectibles which can be detected up to a year.

HGH is dangerous to the user with marginal results not worth the risk. I wouldn't use it, but I wouldn't call you a loser and cheater if you did.

You blame the athlete without looking at the root cause: YOU the avid spectator demands "more and better." He/She's giving YOU what you want. YOU and those of your ilk created the monster. Sorry if you don't like living with it.

And I'm not fair game for you. Stay in your league.

 

[USViking]

So your basic problem is that your overly-sanctimonious ass has a problem with my not forcing my moral viewpoint on others as it pertains to this topic? You need to get over yourself.

My moral viewpoint is that no one should cheat in sports,
and although I have no means of forcing this moral viewpiont
on anyone, I would if I could, and I am glad government and
supra-national bodies are trying to do so.

I have no moral objection to steroids

That stinks, it really, really stinks.

because quite frankly, there is no reason to have one except in the petty, mind-everyone-else's business pea-sized brains of people like you. My conscience is quite clear on the topic, thanks.

You do not, on this subject, have a conscience. I sincerely
hope it has been more well developed elsewhere.

I'm wondering if you comprehend the English language at this point. WHERE do I advocate or defend professional athletes using steroids? Where have I even advocated steroids as athletic performance enhancement? I don't, and I haven't. That's just you jumping to conclusions. The one thing you appear to be quite adept at.

You just said above you have no moral objection to steroids…

If you don't like my personal reasons for choosing to not use them, tough shit.

…And here you seem to be admitting your personal reason for
not using them is only that their effects are temporary. It is
not that I am jumping to conclusions, it is that you are jumping
into all those holes you keep digging for yourself.

For one thing, steroids were perfectly legal and did not carry the social stigma they do today at the time I made the decision. So there was NO "moral" consideration at the time.

Yes there was a moral consideration, unless everyone was getting
equal doses.

There I go imposing my morality again!- I should save my breath
for someone who has some moral potential to work with.

Your first sentence is evidence of your ignorance. If you stop taking steroids for 2-3 weeks and they can't be detected, they're orals, and if they aren't in your system to hurt you, they aren't in your system to help you.

You’re right, I am ignorant, I thought oral doses were what most
dopers used. Are you talking about mainlining the god damn stuff,
like the East Germans and Soviets, or what? You must have been
quite a real poster boy for sports doping.

And I always heard (no experience, thanks) that you kept your edge
for 2-3 weeks with no traces of the dope after about two. Now that I
know what a pro I’m dealing with, I’ll give you the floor on the technical
details from here on in.

The fact of the matter is the only people who get caught are the ones who won't shell out for the latest-greatest masking agent, and they're in oil-based injectibles which can be detected up to a year.

Fascinating.

HGH is dangerous to the user with marginal results not worth the risk. I wouldn't use it, but I wouldn't call you a loser and cheater if you did.

You have just jumped into another hole.

You blame the athlete without looking at the root cause: YOU the avid spectator demands "more and better." He/She's giving YOU what you want. YOU and those of your ilk created the monster. Sorry if you don't like living with it.

I do not demand anything except an honest game by honest sportsmen,
and neither does any other honest spectator.

It is the athletes themselves, in their desire for glory and riches,
who have created their own monster.

At least the assholes who have been caught have not had the gall
to blame the viewing public. I guess that puts you in the sub-asshole category.

And I'm not fair game for you. Stay in your league.

If everyone was such an easy mark I would be world champion.

 

[Gunny]

My moral viewpoint is that no one should cheat in sports,
and although I have no means of forcing this moral viewpiont
on anyone, I would if I could, and I am glad government and
supra-national bodies are trying to do so.

You're leaping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth. Steroids and cheating in sports are not mutally inclusive. It appears you cannot differentiate between the two.

Sorry to hear you don't have the means to enforce your moral viewpoint in this matter on everyone else.



That stinks, it really, really stinks.

Not really. One, seroids have medical benefits; especially, for burn victims and premature babies, people with weak lungs or other muscular infirmities.Again, apparently you cannot differentiate between one topic and the other.


You do not, on this subject, have a conscience. I sincerely
hope it has been more well developed elsewhere.

Sure I do. I'm just not so full of myself that I presume to decide what is right and wrong for eveyone else in this matter. It's none of my business. It's none of your business as well.

You just said above you have no moral objection to steroids…

I don't have a moral objection to steroids. I DO have a moral objection against cheating. Again, two separate subjects. You seem to think one automatically means the other, and it does not.


…And here you seem to be admitting your personal reason for
not using them is only that their effects are temporary. It is
not that I am jumping to conclusions, it is that you are jumping
into all those holes you keep digging for yourself.

I have yet to dig a hole with your dumb ass. You can't even deal with simple sentences without taking a leap off a bridge.


Yes there was a moral consideration, unless everyone was getting
equal doses.

There I go imposing my morality again!- I should save my breath
for someone who has some moral potential to work with.

Who is "everyone?" Again, you making up all kinds of shit that ain't there. I am not a professional weightlifter, and it's always been me against the weight, so in that aspect, there is NO moral consideration. The only person I could have cheated was myself, and as I have already stated I chose not to.

You’re right, I am ignorant, I thought oral doses were what most
dopers used. Are you talking about mainlining the god damn stuff,
like the East Germans and Soviets, or what? You must have been
quite a real poster boy for sports doping.

I chose to educate myself on the topic rather than sound like a complete ignoramus like you. I guess you missed the part where I stated I have not, and do not use them. But there's enough information out there IF you want to have a clue as to what the Hell you are babbling about.

Obviously, among your many other "virtues," you live in a cave. People who use seriously use steroids as athletic enhancement use oil-based injectibles as they have a longer lasting and more potent effect. It isn't just the East Germans and Soviets that were doing it.


And I always heard (no experience, thanks) that you kept your edge
for 2-3 weeks with no traces of the dope after about two. Now that I
know what a pro I’m dealing with, I’ll give you the floor on the technical
details from here on in.

I'm no technical expert. I only know what I have read over the years. Water soluable steroids only stay in your system for a few weeks. How long you keep your edge is debatable. Logic and common sense dictates that if it isn't in your system, it isn't in your system.

Fascinating.

You have just jumped into another hole.

Whatever.

I do not demand anything except an honest game by honest sportsmen,
and neither does any other honest spectator.

It is the athletes themselves, in their desire for glory and riches,
who have created their own monster.

At least the assholes who have been caught have not had the gall
to blame the viewing public. I guess that puts you in the sub-asshole category.

Bullshit. Americans do not accept losers. There are no riches and glory in losing, nor in "being the morally better man." Riches and glory go the winners. We start putting the squeeze on our kids in Little League and never let up.

If I'm a sub-asshole for telling you what you don't want to hear -- the truth -- so be it.


If everyone was such an easy mark I would be world champion.

Yeah, keep dreaming.

You have proven nothing in this thread but that you wish to enforce YOUR morals on everyone, and you're more than willing to talk out your ass on a topic you know nothing about. That's not to mention the fact that you cannot separate your prejudices from the truth, nor differentiate between separate topics.

All in all, you've proven yourself to be quite the uneducated dumbass. Good job.

 

[USViking]

You're leaping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth. Steroids and cheating in sports are not mutally inclusive. It appears you cannot differentiate between the two.

Sports doping is cheating per se, and even if it was not,
someone would always the unfair advantage of more or better dope.

So when steroids are used as sports dope, then they are
a category of sports cheating.

Sorry to hear you don't have the means to enforce your moral viewpoint in this matter on everyone else.

Shame, isn’t it?

Not really. One, seroids have medical benefits; especially, for burn victims and premature babies, people with weak lungs or other muscular infirmities.Again, apparently you cannot differentiate between one topic and the other.

The topic, until you expanded it just now, has been sports doping.
Steroid use for medical reasons has nothing to do with doping.

I had steroids perscribed for a skin infalmmation 30 years ago,
that and a topical fungicide.

Sure I do. I'm just not so full of myself that I presume to decide what is right and wrong for eveyone else in this matter. It's none of my business. It's none of your business as well.

The honest viewing public I mentioned in my last post
has a right to demand honest performances from the
sportsmen who they support.

I don't have a moral objection to steroids. I DO have a moral objection against cheating. Again, two separate subjects. You seem to think one automatically means the other, and it does not.…

You can't even deal with simple sentences without taking a leap off a bridge.

Addressed earlier above.

Who is "everyone?" Again, you making up all kinds of shit that ain't there. I am not a professional weightlifter, and it's always been me against the weight, so in that aspect, there is NO moral consideration. The only person I could have cheated was myself, and as I have already stated I chose not to.

Cheating against yourself, even if no one else is affected,
is not exempt from moralty.

I chose to educate myself on the topic rather than sound like a complete ignoramus like you. I guess you missed the part where I stated I have not, and do not use them.

This is the first time you have said so. I have reread your posts,
and now see this might be what you meant as a disavowal earlier:

“Where have I even advocated steroids as athletic performance enhancement? I don't, and I haven't.”

It is not a denial of use, it is a denial of advocacy, limited to this thread.

You also said:

And no, I don't take them

Now you don't; they were legal when you started lifting;
how about then?

But there's enough information out there IF you want to have a clue as to what the Hell you are babbling about. Obviously, among your many other "virtues," you live in a cave. People who use seriously use steroids as athletic enhancement use oil-based injectibles as they have a longer lasting and more potent effect. It isn't just the East Germans and Soviets that were doing it.

I do not need a clue, and I do not want a clue on the best way
to take sports dope.

I only know what I have read over the years. Water soluable steroids only stay in your system for a few weeks. How long you keep your edge is debatable. Logic and common sense dictates that if it isn't in your system, it isn't in your system.

Fascinating.

Bullshit. Americans do not accept losers.

Bullshit yourself. Americans accept all honest, all-out effort.

There are no riches and glory in losing,

Actually, there are riches a-plenty, once you get to the collegiate level.

And there is glory too, even when you lose while playing for the love
of the game:

When I was in high school we got beat in football 36-0 by one of the
five or so best teams in the state. I was in the whole game on offence,
and in the second half on defence too. I made some good plays despite
the score, and all the glory I could ever ask for was hearing my coach
and teammates say that I had done a good job. BTW that was the only
game we lost.

nor in "being the morally better man."

So Christ was no better than Hitler?- maybe you better think
that one out a bit more. And I am not making any real-life
comparisons between them and any person or theme in this
thread, I am only considering the logical consequences of
your remark.

Riches and glory go the winners. We start putting the squeeze on our kids in Little League and never let up.

Off-topic again.

If I'm a sub-asshole for telling you what you don't want to hear -- the truth -- so be it.

You are what you for blaming everyone except those who deserve
to be blamed.

Yeah, keep dreaming.

I will, and I’ll keep using that axe in my avatar
on chumps like you.

You have proven nothing in this thread but that you wish to enforce YOUR morals on everyone, and you're more than willing to talk out your ass on a topic you know nothing about. That's not to mention the fact that you cannot separate your prejudices from the truth, nor differentiate between separate topics.

All in all, you've proven yourself to be quite the uneducated dumbass. Good job.

Wow, you finish strong, don’t you?

 

[5stringJeff]

It actually depends not on who you talk to, but what stage SF is at. If he's a beginner, he can do full body workouts M-W-F. It's more like circuit training, but it gets your body used to handling weight, and the proper movements.

You go into those twice a week or 4 day splits once you start using heavier weights and doing more sets. I AM impressed that you understand how a muscle is built. I thought it was a secret.

What's missing here is a stated goal. THAT more than anything will determine what he should be doing.

Army Master Fitness Training.

 

[nukeman]

I started out lifting in high school. you should alternate your upper body with your lower body. if you dont you wind up with a great looking upper and little chicken legs and let me tell you that looks really stupid.

A good workout is upper Monday, lower Tuesday, aerobic Wednesday, upper Thursday, lower Friday, and than alternate between aerobic and light lifting on the weekends, this gives each muscle group a chance to repair and grow. If you always lift the same muscles they will become "used" to the lifts and you will no longer get any benifit from them.

You should be able to lift twice your body weight if you are lifting and working out appropriatly. This is not going to happen over night, but with hard work it will happen.

Your workout will depend on what you are wanting to accomplish. if your looking to pack on size and strength or definition. There is big difference in these type of workouts

 

[Abbey Normal]

"TTIWWP"

 

[Gunny]

Sports doping is cheating per se, and even if it was not,
someone would always the unfair advantage of more or better dope.

So when steroids are used as sports dope, then they are
a category of sports cheating.





Shame, isn’t it?





The topic, until you expanded it just now, has been sports doping.
Steroid use for medical reasons has nothing to do with doping.

I had steroids perscribed for a skin infalmmation 30 years ago,
that and a topical fungicide.





The honest viewing public I mentioned in my last post
has a right to demand honest performances from the
sportsmen who they support.





Addressed earlier above.




Cheating against yourself, even if no one else is affected,
is not exempt from moralty.





This is the first time you have said so. I have reread your posts,
and now see this might be what you meant as a disavowal earlier:

“Where have I even advocated steroids as athletic performance enhancement? I don't, and I haven't.”

It is not a denial of use, it is a denial of advocacy, limited to this thread.

You also said:

And no, I don't take them

Now you don't; they were legal when you started lifting;
how about then?





I do not need a clue, and I do not want a clue on the best way
to take sports dope.





Fascinating.




Bullshit yourself. Americans accept all honest, all-out effort.





Actually, there are riches a-plenty, once you get to the collegiate level.

And there is glory too, even when you lose while playing for the love
of the game:

When I was in high school we got beat in football 36-0 by one of the
five or so best teams in the state. I was in the whole game on offence,
and in the second half on defence too. I made some good plays despite
the score, and all the glory I could ever ask for was hearing my coach
and teammates say that I had done a good job. BTW that was the only
game we lost.





So Christ was no better than Hitler?- maybe you better think
that one out a bit more. And I am not making any real-life
comparisons between them and any person or theme in this
thread, I am only considering the logical consequences of
your remark.





Off-topic again.





You are what you for blaming everyone except those who deserve
to be blamed.





I will, and I’ll keep using that axe in my avatar
on chumps like you.





Wow, you finish strong, don’t you?

Don't know what La-La land you're in, but you lost THIS argument the second you started running your suck. You have done NOTHING but jump from one erroneous conclusion to another.

I've had this argument over the years with quite a few people. You are by far the most ignorant, overly-opinionated, self-sanctimonious douchebag I have run across.

The topic was NEVER using steroids as a means of cheating to win, or "sports doping" as you choose to call it. The topic is about individual workouts, and my comment regarding steroids was in THAT context.

Nowhere have I stated I am okay with cheating to win at anything. Nowhere have I stated that I use or have used steroids. I merely made a statement of fact -- steroids are not the "big evil" they're made out to be. Simple as that.

EVERYTHING you have accused me of is a product of YOUR imagination rather than anything I have said. If you could successfully pry your head loose from the death grip your sphincter has on it, you'd probably be able to figure that out.

But just to set you straight, I'll try to do this at as base a level as I possibly can:

I do not believe in cheating to win at anything, by any means. It is morally wrong. This of course has nothing to do with this thread, since in the context of an individual workout, the only person one could cheat is oneself.

I do not and have never taken anabolic steroids, even when they were legal. Again, if you don't like the reasons I did not take them, tough shit.

I don't care if pro athletes cheat because I could care less about pro sports. People like YOU have made them the overpaid primadonnas they are.

I don't relieve the athletes of their responsibility where cheating to win is concerned. Neither am I going to let society off the hook for indoctrinating us from birth to "win at all cost;" which, apparently you turn a blind eye to.

Dude, you need to take your little cheesecleaver and crawl back into the History Quiz where at least you appear to have a clue. You've been lost since the kickoff here and I'm tired of wasting my breath on your dumb ass.

 

[Gunny]

Too many side effects, too many premature deaths due to steroid use.I know because I have seen it time and again, while training in various gyms for the last 30+ years.

You're talking long-term steroid abuse. I'm not really pro-steroid ... I'm just not anti-steroid.

I think making steroids illegal has done more to cause the problems you state than stop them. Used to be you could take them under a physician's supervision, and get pharmaceutical-grade products rather than "Bobby's Bathtub Brew."

I didn't notice all the extreme side effects and premature deaths until steroids went underground. People who are determined to take them are going to take what they can get if they can't get something legit.

 

[USViking]

Don't know what La-La land you're in, but you lost THIS argument the second you started running your suck. You have done NOTHING but jump from one erroneous conclusion to another.

I've had this argument over the years with quite a few people. You are by far the most ignorant, overly-opinionated, self-sanctimonious douchebag I have run across.

I’m glad you have had an opportunity to get acquainted with me.
I ain’t shitten you, I am right, and the sooner people like you
realise it, the better.

The topic was NEVER using steroids as a means of cheating to win, or "sports doping" as you choose to call it. The topic is about individual workouts, and my comment regarding steroids was in THAT context.

And my comment was that steroids are for losers who suck ,
which you are all hyped up about , and said it was government propoganda,
or some fucking thing.

The topic turned to doping when you chose to disagree with another,
wiser poster’s advice to stay away from steroids.

Before that, it was purely a weightlifting thread.

You are the only one who perverted it.

I’ll chop up the rest of you crap later.