The truth about Nelson Mandela

[mudwhistle]

[

Really, when has he done that?

Who is the poor unfortnate recipiant of Obama's vindictive wrath?

We'll wait.

Who's we???

You and your socks?

To answer your question, I'll be specific.
Obama has gone after the Tea Party, branded them as racists.

He's sued several banks with accusations of unfair lending practices, and handed out cash to thousands of blacks who borrowed from them. The banks settled out of court of course. A total shakedown.

He's sent the IRS after rightwing groups, Jewish groups, Christian groups. He's gone after every rightwing talk-show host using the IRS.

He's infringed on the civil liberties of millions of Americans allowing the NSA to spy on their communications. Their internet habits, their phone conversations.

He's talked about Social Justice (getting even with the rich, i.e. whites)
He claims his primary job now isn't to defend this nation from all enemies foreign and domestic, but to assure income equality. All that is is redistribution of wealth. Stealing from one group and giving it to another, keeping a goodly share for himself and his buds.

Wow, these are a WHOLE lot of accusations and not one name of a specific individual.

If the banks settled out of court, it was because they didn't want to get in front of a jury of 12 guys like me who took a beating in their recession.

Oh, the NSA program? Your boy Bush started that and Right Wingers defended him to the hilt when he did.

I should also point out the private companies are ALREADY spying on our interenet activities...

Bush started Data-mining folks talking to known terrorists and Obama simply expanded it to all Americans.

Countrywide was one of the banks. They settled out of court because it's ether that or pay the bloodsucking lawyers to defend them for the next decade against the federal government.

Private companies usually ask for our permission. The NSA doesn't.

 

[JoeB131]

Who's we???

You and your socks?

To answer your question, I'll be specific.
Obama has gone after the Tea Party, branded them as racists.

He's sued several banks with accusations of unfair lending practices, and handed out cash to thousands of blacks who borrowed from them. The banks settled out of court of course. A total shakedown.

He's sent the IRS after rightwing groups, Jewish groups, Christian groups. He's gone after every rightwing talk-show host using the IRS.

He's infringed on the civil liberties of millions of Americans allowing the NSA to spy on their communications. Their internet habits, their phone conversations.

He's talked about Social Justice (getting even with the rich, i.e. whites)
He claims his primary job now isn't to defend this nation from all enemies foreign and domestic, but to assure income equality. All that is is redistribution of wealth. Stealing from one group and giving it to another, keeping a goodly share for himself and his buds.

Wow, these are a WHOLE lot of accusations and not one name of a specific individual.

If the banks settled out of court, it was because they didn't want to get in front of a jury of 12 guys like me who took a beating in their recession.

Oh, the NSA program? Your boy Bush started that and Right Wingers defended him to the hilt when he did.

I should also point out the private companies are ALREADY spying on our interenet activities...

Bush started Data-mining folks talking to known terrorists and Obama simply expanded it to all Americans.

Countrywide was one of the banks. They settled out of court because it's ether that or pay the bloodsucking lawyers to defend them for the next decade against the federal government.

Private companies usually ask for our permission. The NSA doesn't.

No, they don't. When I type in Obama and I go to the humor website I like to visit and get "Should Obama Be Impeached?" in a banner ad, I didn't ask for that and I didn't give anyone permission to follow my web history.

Countrywide settled because they were as guilty as a cat in a canary cage. They got off easy.

 

[freedombecki]

I have no animosity toward the memory of Nelson Mandela. He spent 27 years in prison where he was tortured and I have to admit that I am pretty sure that I would not have been able to endure myself. He brought change to South Africa at a time when the white minority were opposed to the 'one man, one vote' rule of democracy. For that he should be praised. But Mandela was also a politician. That means that he turned his head and looked the other way regarding some very nasty stuff.

Mandela supported the African National Congress who performed some pretty horrific terrorist attacks. Additionally, by any stretch of the imagination he spouted some pretty stupid communist/socialist dogma that anyone with half a brain knows is fantasy. But that dogma was being spouted as well by people he NEEDED to be his friends to help him and his cause. He supported and was friends with Moammar Khadafy because Khadafy supported him and the ANC when Mandela needed it. It's pretty clear that he was quite the womanizer as well. His second wife Winnie was a thug and she went on trial several times for her actions during the murder of several opponents.

Is he the resurrection of the Messiah like Barry and his ilke would like us to believe? No. A good man with good intentions, but just a man.

Winnie Mandela was a proponent of "necklacing" her adversaries. Those who are unacquainted with this method of social coercion should read this somewhat whitewashed link from Wikipedia from which I will just bring a part: Necklacing - Wikipedia

Warning: these words are a little graphic, but an exact quote minus links. Links are at the above link that I left in the above paragraph following the colon symbol.

Necklacing is the practice of summary execution and torture carried out by forcing a rubber tire, filled with petrol, around a victim's chest and arms, and setting it on fire. The victim may take up to 20 minutes to die, suffering severe burns in the process.

In South Africa

The practice became a common method of lynching among black South Africans during disturbances in South Africa in the 1980s and '90s. The first recorded instance took place in Uitenhage on 23 March 1985 when black African National Congress (ANC) supporters killed a black councilor who was accused of being a white collaborator.

Necklacing "sentences" were sometimes handed down against alleged criminals by "people's courts" established in black townships as a means of enforcing their own judicial system. Necklacing was also used by the black community to punish members of the black community who were perceived as collaborators with the apartheid government. These included black policemen, town councilors and others, as well as their relatives and associates. The practice was often carried out in the name of the ANC although the ANC executive body condemned it. In 1986 Winnie Mandela, then-wife of the imprisoned Nelson Mandela, made a statement that was widely seen as an implicit endorsement of necklacing which at the time caused the ANC to distance itself from her although she later took on a number of official positions within the ANC. The number of deaths per month in South Africa related to political unrest as a whole from 1992 through 1995 ranged from 54 to 605 and averaged 244. These figures are inclusive of massacres as well as deaths not attributed to necklacing.
The first victim of necklacing, according to the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission, was a young girl, Maki Skosana, in July 1985

“ Moloko said her sister was burned to death with a tire around her neck while attending the funeral of one of the youths. Her body had been scorched by fire and some broken pieces of glass had been inserted into her vagina, Moloko told the committee.
Moloko added that a big rock had been thrown on her face after she had been killed.
”
Photojournalist Kevin Carter was the first to photograph a public execution by necklacing in South Africa in the mid-1980s. He later spoke of the images
“ I was appalled at what they were doing. I was appalled at what I was doing. But then people started talking about those pictures... then I felt that maybe my actions hadn't been at all bad. Being a witness to something this horrible wasn't necessarily such a bad thing to do. ”
He went on to say:
“ After having seen so many necklacings on the news, it occurs to me that either many others were being performed (off camera as it were) and this was just the tip of the iceberg, or that the presence of the camera completed the last requirement, and acted as a catalyst in this terrible reaction. The strong message that was being sent, was only meaningful if it were carried by the media. It was not more about the warning (others) than about causing one person pain. The question that haunts me is 'would those people have been necklaced, if there was no media coverage?' ”
Author Lynda Schuster writes,
“ 'Necklacing' represented the worst of the excesses committed in the name of the uprising. This was a particularly gruesome form of mob justice, reserved for those thought to be government collaborators, informers and black policemen. The executioners would force a car tire over the head and around the arms of the suspect, drench it in petrol, and set it alight. Immobilized, the victim burned to death.

That's one of the most animalistic things I've read about racist hatred in my life.

 

[mudwhistle]

Wow, these are a WHOLE lot of accusations and not one name of a specific individual.

If the banks settled out of court, it was because they didn't want to get in front of a jury of 12 guys like me who took a beating in their recession.

Oh, the NSA program? Your boy Bush started that and Right Wingers defended him to the hilt when he did.

I should also point out the private companies are ALREADY spying on our interenet activities...

Bush started Data-mining folks talking to known terrorists and Obama simply expanded it to all Americans.

Countrywide was one of the banks. They settled out of court because it's ether that or pay the bloodsucking lawyers to defend them for the next decade against the federal government.

Private companies usually ask for our permission. The NSA doesn't.

No, they don't. When I type in Obama and I go to the humor website I like to visit and get "Should Obama Be Impeached?" in a banner ad, I didn't ask for that and I didn't give anyone permission to follow my web history.

Countrywide settled because they were as guilty as a cat in a canary cage. They got off easy.

Only against blacks?

Doubtful.......

I'm sure while using the internet the phone company sells your information to 3rd parties. There's plenty of it going on, and until somebody brings a class-action suit it will continue.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

The more i research the man, the more confused I become on what my opinion should be of him. He did do an amazing thing but helping topple a very evil and oppressive government. That fact cannot be contested. I'm impressed with initial desire to remain non-violent.

What has my opinion still non decided are some of his actions, statements and connections. His major influences were Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong. He supported and was inspired by Fidel Castro. He did not condemn the crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK) in the 1980s (a group that he founded). What also has been thinking is the fact that white south african farmers are being murdered and south african has not improved much since the over throw of the apartheid.

Evil is evil. Good men are stalwart against it. NM was 'principled' when it suited him. He is the typical BS hero that the media wants; black and communistic.

 

[JoeB131]

Countrywide settled because they were as guilty as a cat in a canary cage. They got off easy.

Only against blacks?

Doubtful.......

I'm sure while using the internet the phone company sells your information to 3rd parties. There's plenty of it going on, and until somebody brings a class-action suit it will continue.

USDOJ: US Attorney's Office - Central District of California

The settlement, which is subject to court approval, was filed today in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California in conjunction with the department’s complaint which alleges that Countrywide discriminated by charging more than 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers higher fees and interest rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers in both its retail and wholesale lending. The complaint alleges that these borrowers were charged higher fees and interest rates because of their race or national origin, and not because of the borrowers’ creditworthiness or other objective criteria related to borrower risk.

The United States also alleges that Countrywide discriminated by steering thousands of African-American and Hispanic borrowers into subprime mortgages when non-Hispanic white borrowers with similar credit profiles received prime loans. All the borrowers who were discriminated against were qualified for Countrywide mortgage loans according to Countrywide’s own underwriting criteria.

Case closed. Countrywide discriminated and cheated their customers.

 

[mudwhistle]

Countrywide settled because they were as guilty as a cat in a canary cage. They got off easy.

Only against blacks?

Doubtful.......

I'm sure while using the internet the phone company sells your information to 3rd parties. There's plenty of it going on, and until somebody brings a class-action suit it will continue.

USDOJ: US Attorney's Office - Central District of California

The settlement, which is subject to court approval, was filed today in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California in conjunction with the department’s complaint which alleges that Countrywide discriminated by charging more than 200,000 African-American and Hispanic borrowers higher fees and interest rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers in both its retail and wholesale lending. The complaint alleges that these borrowers were charged higher fees and interest rates because of their race or national origin, and not because of the borrowers’ creditworthiness or other objective criteria related to borrower risk.

The United States also alleges that Countrywide discriminated by steering thousands of African-American and Hispanic borrowers into subprime mortgages when non-Hispanic white borrowers with similar credit profiles received prime loans. All the borrowers who were discriminated against were qualified for Countrywide mortgage loans according to Countrywide’s own underwriting criteria.

Case closed. Countrywide discriminated and cheated their customers.

The case was based solely on race, not credit worthiness. Doesn't matter what your credit score was or what kind of loan you got, if you were black or Hispanic you got a settlement check.

The whole case was based off of claims made by the DoJ, claims that have been made by the likes of the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson in the past. Countrywide didn't want the bad press, so they settled. Nobody wants to be accused of being a racist.

Most of those folks got loans even though they didn't deserve them, and as we have found out many of them walked away from those loans which greatly contributed to the housing crash. Right now it's impossible for them to get a loan under the same conditions. Those that received those loans cannot even refinance at today's lower interest rates because they are no longer qualified.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The case was based solely on race, not credit worthiness. Doesn't matter what your credit score was or what kind of loan you got, if you were black or Hispanic you got a settlement check.

The whole case was based off of claims made by the DoJ, claims that have been made by the likes of the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson in the past. Countrywide didn't want the bad press, so they settled. Nobody wants to be accused of being a racist.

Most of those folks got loans even though they didn't deserve them, and as we have found out many of them walked away from those loans which greatly contributed to the housing crash. Right now it's impossible for them to get a loan under the same conditions. Those that received those loans cannot even refinance at today's lower interest rates because they are no longer qualified.

Wow, guy, your apology for the banks kind of sounds like the guy who killed both his parents and asked the court to take pity on him because he was an orphan!

The problem was with the Sub-prime crisis is that the banks were happy to give out loans to people who didn't merit them, because they knew they could always foreclose and sell the house for even more money. The Banks were NOT the victims here. The rest of us were.

And please, no bank writes 500 million in checks for wrongdoing because they don't want "bad press". They did it because they knew damned well if they got in front of a jury of 12 working stiffs, they'd take it a hell of a lot worse.

 

[mudwhistle]

[

The case was based solely on race, not credit worthiness. Doesn't matter what your credit score was or what kind of loan you got, if you were black or Hispanic you got a settlement check.

The whole case was based off of claims made by the DoJ, claims that have been made by the likes of the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson in the past. Countrywide didn't want the bad press, so they settled. Nobody wants to be accused of being a racist.

Most of those folks got loans even though they didn't deserve them, and as we have found out many of them walked away from those loans which greatly contributed to the housing crash. Right now it's impossible for them to get a loan under the same conditions. Those that received those loans cannot even refinance at today's lower interest rates because they are no longer qualified.

Wow, guy, your apology for the banks kind of sounds like the guy who killed both his parents and asked the court to take pity on him because he was an orphan!

The problem was with the Sub-prime crisis is that the banks were happy to give out loans to people who didn't merit them, because they knew they could always foreclose and sell the house for even more money. The Banks were NOT the victims here. The rest of us were.

And please, no bank writes 500 million in checks for wrongdoing because they don't want "bad press". They did it because they knew damned well if they got in front of a jury of 12 working stiffs, they'd take it a hell of a lot worse.

So it's just Marxism. The people against the rich. Mob-rule.

The banks weren't so much happy to give out those loans but many were goaded into them. They could have been accused of being racist, and some were, if they didn't grant the loans. This mess was fought over in Congress during the Bush years. Bush even warned against it. But Democraps like Franklin Raines and now retired Congressmen ushered in the regulations that allowed it.

This is just another example of what happens when government tries to game the system. If you don't understand that I don't feel the need to explain further.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

Well, he was that. He led the way through terror bombing campaigns and other public violence. As the leader of sucha group. We have other groups that have done similar thigs in recent times that have been attributed much differently than Mendela in the halls of history. It's a double standard because some make the moral arbitration that it was justified being up against what he was up against.

Oh yeah, he supposedly led terror bombing campaigns while he was STUCK IN A SOUTH AFRICAN PRISON FOR 27 YEARS.

Sure! We have entire criminal organizations run from prisons. Tookie Williams was on death row and directed the murders of witnesses from his prison cell. He was also honored when he was finally executed.

He didn't run a terrorist organization from a South African prison.

South African prisons are not like American prisons.

They had him cut off from any contacts with the outside world.

 

[midcan5]

Draft dodger Dick Cheney et al is alive and well in America, a coward who did not serve but can only talk.

Postscript: Nelson Mandela, 1918-2013 : The New Yorker

"The Right Wing’s Campaign To Discredit And Undermine Mandela, In One Timeline"

Six Things Nelson Mandela Believed That Most People Won't Talk About | ThinkProgress

The Right Wing's Campaign To Discredit And Undermine Mandela, In One Timeline | ThinkProgress


"I much prefer to remember them all as Enemies of the State, as revolutionaries who inspired fear and loathing in the entrenched powers. Dick Cheney is right to hate Mandela. Mandela fought against everything Cheney stands for. A strong progressive movement needs at all times to remember its enemies as well as its heroes."

The Philosopher's Stone: MORE ON MANDELA

Nelson Mandela and the GOP: All the Terrible Things the GOP Once Said | New Republic

"Before Congressional Republicans in the U.S. lionized Nelson Mandela, they despised him. And they opposed not just the great freedom fighter himself but the entire anti-apartheid movement. Even worse, they took actions that damaged the cause of equality in South Africa. Not for nothing did Bishop Desmond Tutu call Ronald Reagan’s policy towards the country “immoral, evil and totally un-Christian.” Conservative Americans’ pro-apartheid actions are not just shameful history—they are similar, in some ways, to their actions to rid the world of political Islam."

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

Why not? What he did was kind of impressive. He brought down a racist government by peaceful means,

Where did you get that version of history from?

Hey ignoramous,

Here's a start.
Apartheid Timeline

Mandela was elected peacefully in a democratic election following the end of apartheid. He held the country together when his capitalist economic policies prevented a white flight.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

Discrimination of any kind is wrong. I suppose that is what he fought against.

Unfortunately our Democrats use politics to discriminate against their opposition. They could learn something from Mandela's example. Sadly they won't.

The above post is idiotic.

As if republicans don't use politics to discriminate against their opposition.

Give me some examples......

You fail to see the difference between politics and morals.

That's easy.

How about all the voter repression laws passed in republican controlled states to keep black people from voting?

 

[hazlnut]

The media and our government as well as governments around the world have lied to the people and the truth about this man needs to be told. Some here are old enough to remember that truth.
WND » ?Nelson Mandela was a radical Marxist? » Print

Another bigot who can't stand seeing blacks on TV being praised.

Go back to stormfront.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Why not? What he did was kind of impressive. He brought down a racist government by peaceful means,

Where did you get that version of history from?

Hey ignoramous,

Here's a start.
Apartheid Timeline

Mandela was elected peacefully in a democratic election following the end of apartheid. He held the country together when his capitalist economic policies prevented a white flight.

So you're saying Mendela didn't use violence as a political tool? Yeah, ok.

 

[Peterf]

If it's true that he was a Marxist then look at what good Marxism has achieved in SA.

If you find something good among the economic wreckage, the growing unemployment and the rotten, corrupt Zuma ANC administration tell us about it. A bit of good news out of South Africa would be a welcome change.

 

[NoNukes]

Well, he was that. He led the way through terror bombing campaigns and other public violence. As the leader of sucha group. We have other groups that have done similar thigs in recent times that have been attributed much differently than Mendela in the halls of history. It's a double standard because some make the moral arbitration that it was justified being up against what he was up against.

Like the American Founding Fathers.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Well, he was that. He led the way through terror bombing campaigns and other public violence. As the leader of sucha group. We have other groups that have done similar thigs in recent times that have been attributed much differently than Mendela in the halls of history. It's a double standard because some make the moral arbitration that it was justified being up against what he was up against.

Like the American Founding Fathers.

Like the Palestinians.

Like the radical Muslims that tagreted western governments for their meddling.

Yeah, I get the hypocrisy. That was the entire point. And you also weren't original. Someone already tried that tactic.

 

[NoNukes]

Well, he was that. He led the way through terror bombing campaigns and other public violence. As the leader of sucha group. We have other groups that have done similar thigs in recent times that have been attributed much differently than Mendela in the halls of history. It's a double standard because some make the moral arbitration that it was justified being up against what he was up against.

Like the American Founding Fathers.

Like the Palestinians.

Like the radical Muslims that tagreted western governments for their meddling.

Yeah, I get the hypocrisy. That was the entire point. And you also weren't original. Someone already tried that tactic.

There is more common sense around. You could just say, yes, you are right.

 

[GHook93]

South Africa is the BEST that Africa has to offer! Yet, the South African government practices racial pograms on their minority class (whites). The government sanctions and defends genocide on whites. They do nothing to stop it and have outlawed whites from owning guns to protect themselves (very Hitler, Stalin and Mao-esque). They are the homicide, car-jacking, rape, BABY rape and AIDSA capital of the world. They lead in all of them. Nice stats to have as the continents leading economy!

They have a horrendous economy, no matter what they liberals try to say it is. The country is only getting worse and worse each year. When they finally get rid of all the Whites through, genocide, ethnic cleansing and flight, they will be no better than Zimbabwe (both morally and economically).