An alternate view of Nelson Mandela

[braalian]

Violence begets violence

The communists counted on blood in the streets and made sure they got it through the use of terrorism

why didn't the Afrikaner settlers that controlled the government simply end the unjust Apartheid system?

They had every chance to. The queen and the common wealth told them to. It was the only right thing to do

yet, they still didn't do it, right up to the 1990's

Reap what you sow

 

[Deadstick]

Violence begets violence

The communists counted on blood in the streets and made sure they got it through the use of terrorism

Don't be silly, i ask again what should blacks have done when faced by this?

 

[Mac-7]

why didn't the Afrikaner settlers that controlled the government simply end the unjust Apartheid system?

They had every chance to. The queen and the common wealth told them to. It was the only right thing to do

yet, they still didn't do it, right up to the 1990's

Reap what you sow

The easy answer is that they feared and wanted to avoid what has happened since

 

[egp320i]

Was apartheid a necessary part of all that?

Apartheid was inherently evil and had to be ended at any cost

well if it benefited society as a whole maybe not

SA is MORE poor now, way more crime too

 

[braalian]

The easy answer is that they feared and wanted to avoid what has happened since

Well, they were a tiny minority of white people living in a country of Africans that they exploited and openly denied civil liberties for generations.

They were fortunate to be allowed to stay at all

When Algeria was decolonized, the Arab majority promptly kicked out the white population. In 1960 there were over a million white Frenchmen living in Algeria. And they had been there for many generations. Today the number is close to zero

Again, reap what you sow.

 

[The Duke]

Well, they were a tiny minority of white people living in a country of Africans that they exploited and openly denied civil liberties for generations.

They were fortunate to be allowed to stay at all

When Algeria was decolonized, the Arab majority promptly kicked out the white population. In 1960 there were over a million white Frenchmen living in Algeria. And they had been there for many generations. Today the number is close to zero

Again, reap what you sow.

How many were murdered?

 

[Mac-7]

Well, they were a tiny minority of white people living in a country of Africans that they exploited and openly denied civil liberties for generations.

They were fortunate to be allowed to stay at all

When Algeria was decolonized, the Arab majority promptly kicked out the white population. In 1960 there were over a million white Frenchmen living in Algeria. And they had been there for many generations. Today the number is close to zero

Again, reap what you sow.

I think most sensible people would fear giving power to the murderous ANC

 

[braalian]

How many were murdered?

many thousands were killed during the French/Algerian war. On both sides.

If any French people had stayed after Algeria gained independence, probably many of them would've been killed in the decades since

 

[JoeB131]

The violence was to be expected considering the conditions created by Apartheid.

They were less and less going to be able to due to the fact they couldn't update their equipment due to the sanctions.

All those things didn't work in isolation.

Hold on, Marty, you are admitting that the ANC was somewhat justified in it's violence because of Apartheid, but you don't think the PLO/Hamas are justified with much worse violence from the Zionist Entity?

 

[braalian]

Hold on, Marty, you are admitting that the ANC was somewhat justified in it's violence because of Apartheid, but you don't think the PLO/Hamas are justified with much worse violence from the Zionist Entity?

You can’t compare Israel to the Afrikaner South African regime

 

[JoeB131]

You can’t compare Israel to the Afrikaner South African regime

I agree. Israel is MUCH worse.

 

[martybegan]

Hold on, Marty, you are admitting that the ANC was somewhat justified in it's violence because of Apartheid, but you don't think the PLO/Hamas are justified with much worse violence from the Zionist Entity?

The ANC and Inkatha mostly fought against the security forces of South Africa. PLO/Hamas/Hezbollah make it a point to go for civilians.

And you keep ignoring the nearly 1 million Israeli Arabs with full citizenship rights. The Palestinians are the descendants of those who chose the wrong side multiple times in previous flare ups of fighting.

Zero Blacks, Indians or Coloreds had any voting rights at all in Apartheid SA.

 

[JoeB131]

The ANC and Inkatha mostly fought against the security forces of South Africa. PLO/Hamas/Hezbollah make it a point to go for civilians.

Actually, that's not true, either. The ANC was notorious for not only killing whites but also killing blacks who didn't support them. Look up "Necklacing" if you are still unclear on the point.

There's a reason why the "Truth and Reconciliation" committees involved a lot of apologizing from the ANC for past tactics.

And you keep ignoring the nearly 1 million Israeli Arabs with full citizenship rights. The Palestinians are the descendants of those who chose the wrong side multiple times in previous flare ups of fighting.

By that logic, South Africa was justified because the Zulus enjoyed more rights than the Xhosa, who were the backbone of the ANC.

"You chose the wrong" side isn't an excuse for genocide, apartheid, or discrimination.

Zero Blacks, Indians or Coloreds had any voting rights at all in Apartheid SA.

Not exactly true, but never mind. People of mixed race had more rights than pure Africans, Indians had more rights than either.

 

[martybegan]

Actually, that's not true, either. The ANC was notorious for not only killing whites but also killing blacks who didn't support them. Look up "Necklacing" if you are still unclear on the point.

There's a reason why the "Truth and Reconciliation" committees involved a lot of apologizing from the ANC for past tactics.



By that logic, South Africa was justified because the Zulus enjoyed more rights than the Xhosa, who were the backbone of the ANC.

"You chose the wrong" side isn't an excuse for genocide, apartheid, or discrimination.



Not exactly true, but never mind. People of mixed race had more rights than pure Africans, Indians had more rights than either.

SA didn't have the Partition attempt in 1948 that was rejected by the Arab States who then lost again and again and again afterwards. Far more justification for the SA blacks and others to fight back than the Palestinians. Apartheid was from the get go.

People of mixed race in SA still could not vote, they were just given crumbs. Israeli Arabs are full citizens.

 

[JoeB131]

SA didn't have the Partition attempt in 1948 that was rejected by the Arab States who then lost again and again and again afterwards. Far more justification for the SA blacks and others to fight back than the Palestinians. Apartheid was from the get go.

You should probably look up the issue of "Homelands", and how the Botha Regime tried to stave off the end of apartheid.

Bantustan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Is it your argument that because the Zionists established Apartheid later, that makes it okay.

Let's be honest about WHY the world tolerates Zionist Apartheid and genocide.

Because the whole world still feels a guilt trip about the Holocaust.

Because the go-to for any Jew when confronted about Israeli misconduct, is to whine, "But, but, but... HITLER!!!"

Hitler died 80 years ago. It's time to stop using him as an excuse.

People of mixed race in SA still could not vote, they were just given crumbs. Israeli Arabs are full citizens.

Um Arabs are given crumbs.

Shit, the Zionists treat Mizhari and Sephardic Jews as second-class citizens behind the Ashkenazi squatters from Europe.

 

[martybegan]

You should probably look up the issue of "Homelands", and how the Botha Regime tried to stave off the end of apartheid.

Bantustan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Is it your argument that because the Zionists established Apartheid later, that makes it okay.

Let's be honest about WHY the world tolerates Zionist Apartheid and genocide.

Because the whole world still feels a guilt trip about the Holocaust.

Because the go-to for any Jew when confronted about Israeli misconduct, is to whine, "But, but, but... HITLER!!!"

Hitler died 80 years ago. It's time to stop using him as an excuse.


Um Arabs are given crumbs.

Shit, the Zionists treat Mizhari and Sephardic Jews as second-class citizens behind the Ashkenazi squatters from Europe.

My argument is the Black SA's were never given an actual chance at fair partition, the Arabs were, and the current Palestinians chose the wrong side and need to accept that fact.

Again arguing facts not in evidence. What is happening in Gaza is not Genocide. What would happen if the Gazans had the same power as the Israelis would be Genocide.

All this sad pathetic justification for your jew hate.

 

[JoeB131]

My argument is the Black SA's were never given an actual chance at fair partition, the Arabs were, and the current Palestinians chose the wrong side and need to accept that fact.

I think you need to read up on South African History.

Anglo-Zulu War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

First Boer War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Second Boer War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again arguing facts not in evidence. What is happening in Gaza is not Genocide.

Actually, it meets the UN definition of genocide, the same standard we applied to Serbia in the 1990s.
Bibi has to be careful where he travels because some countries would probably arrest him on that ICC warrant he has.

What would happen if the Gazans had the same power as the Israelis would be Genocide.

They would probably send the Zionists back to Europe where they came from. Just can't see that as a bad thing. This is what every other colonial group has done.

All this sad pathetic justification for your jew hate.

I hate people who do evil stuff.

Which is why the world hates Israel now. ONly because AIPAC dumps a lot of money into Congress does Israel get away with this stuff.

 

[martybegan]

I think you need to read up on South African History.

Anglo-Zulu War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

First Boer War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Second Boer War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Actually, it meets the UN definition of genocide, the same standard we applied to Serbia in the 1990s.
Bibi has to be careful where he travels because some countries would probably arrest him on that ICC warrant he has.



They would probably send the Zionists back to Europe where they came from. Just can't see that as a bad thing. This is what every other colonial group has done.


I hate people who do evil stuff.

Which is why the world hates Israel now. ONly because AIPAC dumps a lot of money into Congress does Israel get away with this stuff.

Wars, not mandated partitions where one side then decided to not go with the mandate, and then got their asses kicked several times.

The UN moves the Genocide goalposts out of their Israel hate when it comes to Israel.

No, they would slaughter every single one of them. The Gazans have shown they would rather kill jews than live their lives.

 

[braalian]

Arabs in Israel have civil liberties, blacks in apartheid SA did not.

Big difference.

 

[JoeB131]

Wars, not mandated partitions where one side then decided to not go with the mandate, and then got their asses kicked several times.

The UN moves the Genocide goalposts out of their Israel hate when it comes to Israel.

No, they would slaughter every single one of them. The Gazans have shown they would rather kill jews than live their lives.

What business did anyone have "mandating" the partition of their land?

"Hey, we feel bad about the Holocaust, so we are going to MANDATE that you give half your land to the Jews!"

"Um, we didn't kill anyone in the Holocaust, why are we being punished?"

The UN is using the same standard it applied to Serbia and Rwanda.

I honestly doubt if the Zionists went back to Europe, the Arabs would care anymore.