Zone1 The Ten Commandments don't apply to us.

[Meriweather]

It's not the sins of others we're talking about here.

Oh? They were all your own sins?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Sure.

^That is your take on what happened. And then we have God telling us why the flood was necessary. The earth was filled with hybrids that were very violent. But violence isn't the reason for the flood.
There were 8 humans that still had pure human DNA. The rest were hybrids. That includes animals.
God wasn't having a little hissy fit. He was preserving mankind...

Genesis 6: 9: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations

There we go. Cherry picking.

You can "interpret" things so they fit your narrative. You can do whatever you want.

We see this over all religions, which break apart and form their own group who interpret at will.

Preserving mankind by creating INBRED HUMANS.

If there were a max of 9 people, two of whom were super old, then the inbreeding there was HUGE.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh? They were all your own sins?

We're not talking about sinning, we're talking about cherry picking.

Do I need to tell you this again?

 

[White 6]

your party took the Bible and the Ten Commandments out of school .. tell us how thats worked out !

I have never been a party member of either party. You are incorrect again, pretty much par for the course. I went to Hendron Elementary school, the Ten Commandments were not posted. I went to Lone Oak Middle school. The Ten Commandments were not posted. I went to Lone Oak High School. The Ten Commandments were not posted. All those years, I did not know to miss them at school. Afterall, they were framed and on the wall in our living room. They were in the Sunday school room at Lebannon Methodist Church. We moved to Huntingdon, where I graduated, but do not remember them posted in the halls there, either, and still did not know, I should be missing them in the school house. Afterall, they were in our living room in the farm house built by my Grandfather on the family farm, and in the fellowship all of Long Rock Methodist Church. I graduated from Union University. I am pretty sure they were in the chapel, as well as the classroom where I took Old Testament and New Testament, 6 credit hours of religion being required for graduation. I have never been part of any party that took them out of any school, nor any party that voted to make them part of primary or secondary public education. I went to school, subjected to public schooling to learn reading, writing, arithmetic, history and be introduced to certain skill sets and discipline of a public education, back when if your were abjectly undisciplined, and teacher, principal or coach would introduce you to the real board of education, about 3/4" thick, usually of oak. I was never beaten with a copy of the Ten Commandments, nor were they brought up at the time I was receiving this disciplinary education.

If you have ever been responsible for children, where their education in the Ten Commandments was the responsibility and of public schools, paid for by your tax dollars, then you failed those children, not the school, not the government, and not some political party. But, that is just my opinion, and not one I would mandate by governmental law or regulation for all children, simply because I ascribe to religious training and upbringing. It is for parents and the church they attend, not the public tax funded school.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It's not the sins of others we're talking about here.

It's the cherry picking.

But you still haven't told us what you think we cherry pick...
Screwing someone else's wife is still not ok.
Man having sex with man is also still not ok.
It was Trump or Heels Up. If Jesus was running, I would have voted for Him.
What else you got?

 

[The Irish Ram]

There we go. Cherry picking.

You can "interpret" things so they fit your narrative. You can do whatever you want.

We see this over all religions, which break apart and form their own group who interpret at will.

Preserving mankind by creating INBRED HUMANS.

If there were a max of 9 people, two of whom were super old, then the inbreeding there was HUGE.

No interpretation necessary. God meant what He said.
God didn't create nephilim, fallen angels did.
Age had nothing to do with any of it.
If God could have found 20 people whose DNA was not corrupt, 20 people would have been on the ark.
Your knowledge of God is too limited to create an accurate opinion.
You are cherry-picking things you think God did wrong, without an understanding of the data.
With your limited expertise, is there anything you think He did right?

 

[Meriweather]

We're not talking about sinning, we're talking about cherry picking.

Modern Christianity seems to be all about cherrypicking.

Yes, I get that. We were discussing The Ten Commandments and how Christians elected on to include the other six hundred. I brought up the point that most of those were about civil and ceremonial; others were subsets of the original ten. Was there a Commandment in the six hundred that dealt with morality that Christians dropped?

Your list started with some civil consequences for those who commit adultery, etc, which not only falls into the civil category of law, but is also noted in the Ten, that we are not to commit adultery.

Before the end you were speaking of the President's shortcomings.

So, again, which of the 600 Commandments do you believe had to do with morality that did not fall into the categories of civil, ceremonial, or a subset or the original Ten? Leave the President out of it.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

If there were a max of 9 people, two of whom were super old, then the inbreeding there was HUGE

Nope. There were only 10 generations from Adam to Noah.
You can assume God created Adam physically PERFECT.
The Scriptures tell us "Noah was perfect in his generations." Irish Ram is right. Noah was kept physically perfect.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Your knowledge of God is too limited to create an accurate opinion

Exactly! His opinion on biblical matters means less than nothing. Yet the God cc haters are the first to "explain" the Scriptures to you

 

[frigidweirdo]

But you still haven't told us what you think we cherry pick...
Screwing someone else's wife is still not ok.
Man having sex with man is also still not ok.
It was Trump or Heels Up. If Jesus was running, I would have voted for Him.
What else you got?

Yeah I have, I gave two examples.

Example one was saying violence is bad, and yet having a God who is/was violent in the Bible.

Example two was religious people who hate gay people because of Leviticus elected a President who committed adulterty.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No interpretation necessary. God meant what He said.
God didn't create nephilim, fallen angels did.
Age had nothing to do with any of it.
If God could have found 20 people whose DNA was not corrupt, 20 people would have been on the ark.
Your knowledge of God is too limited to create an accurate opinion.
You are cherry-picking things you think God did wrong, without an understanding of the data.
With your limited expertise, is there anything you think He did right?

And does God mean what God does?

If God killed all but 9 people and all animals but two of each because of human violence, then why didn't God do the same thing in WW2? The Holocaust, dropping nukes, deaths all over the place.

Understanding the data huh?

What am I not understanding about Noah's Ark?

God killed loads of people in a flood, yes or not?
There were supposedly up to 9 people left, yes or not?

You're telling me I have "limited expertise", but all that sounds like to me is you saying "I'm religious, so I'm right".

I'm using logic here.

The boat would never have functioned, it's the same size as the largest wooden boat ever built, and that leaked so much that it required modern-ish pumps to keep it afloat.

There's no way you could get two of every species on the boat. Why would you take fish on the boat? The Bible doesn't exclude fish from going on the Ark. Logic says you would do that. Logic says nobody had a classification of what an animal was either. So how did they know to take two of every species? Two of every type of dog? Just two dogs? And then they evolved into the dogs we have now? Wait, you people aren't that comfortable with evolution.

The story has so many holes in. But you fill them up with "Well, you know, you don't know what you're talking about"

And yet your excuses are what? Nothing. You didn't talk about the fact that inbreeding is a huge thing among humans. Whenever you want to excuse something, just blame fallen angels or something else.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes, I get that. We were discussing The Ten Commandments and how Christians elected on to include the other six hundred. I brought up the point that most of those were about civil and ceremonial; others were subsets of the original ten. Was there a Commandment in the six hundred that dealt with morality that Christians dropped?

Your list started with some civil consequences for those who commit adultery, etc, which not only falls into the civil category of law, but is also noted in the Ten, that we are not to commit adultery.

Before the end you were speaking of the President's shortcomings.

So, again, which of the 600 Commandments do you believe had to do with morality that did not fall into the categories of civil, ceremonial, or a subset or the original Ten? Leave the President out of it.

I don't "believe".

Believing is accepting without knowing. So... I'll wait until I have knowledge of something.

The topic is about whether the ten commandments apply to "us", whoever "us" is.

I pointed out that Christians are very adept at cherry picking whatever they want to include or exclude.

I don't care about any of the commandments. I think that Christians will do whichever ones they like and ignore the rest. Because that's what I have evidence for on a daily basis.

That's what I KNOW, not what I BELIEVE.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

And does God mean what God does?

If God killed all but 9 people and all animals but two of each because of human violence, then why didn't God do the same thing in WW2? The Holocaust, dropping nukes, deaths all over the place.

Understanding the data huh?

What am I not understanding about Noah's Ark?

God killed loads of people in a flood, yes or not?
There were supposedly up to 9 people left, yes or not?

You're telling me I have "limited expertise", but all that sounds like to me is you saying "I'm religious, so I'm right".

I'm using logic here.

The boat would never have functioned, it's the same size as the largest wooden boat ever built, and that leaked so much that it required modern-ish pumps to keep it afloat.

There's no way you could get two of every species on the boat. Why would you take fish on the boat? The Bible doesn't exclude fish from going on the Ark. Logic says you would do that. Logic says nobody had a classification of what an animal was either. So how did they know to take two of every species? Two of every type of dog? Just two dogs? And then they evolved into the dogs we have now? Wait, you people aren't that comfortable with evolution.

The story has so many holes in. But you fill them up with "Well, you know, you don't know what you're talking about"

And yet your excuses are what? Nothing. You didn't talk about the fact that inbreeding is a huge thing among humans. Whenever you want to excuse something, just blame fallen angels or something else.

This is an example of why people like you should not lecture anyone on religion.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

And does God mean what God does?

If God killed all but 9 people and all animals but two of each because of human violence, then why didn't God do the same thing in WW2? The Holocaust, dropping nukes, deaths all over the place.

Understanding the data huh?

What am I not understanding about Noah's Ark?

God killed loads of people in a flood, yes or not?
There were supposedly up to 9 people left, yes or not?

You're telling me I have "limited expertise", but all that sounds like to me is you saying "I'm religious, so I'm right".

I'm using logic here.

The boat would never have functioned, it's the same size as the largest wooden boat ever built, and that leaked so much that it required modern-ish pumps to keep it afloat.

There's no way you could get two of every species on the boat. Why would you take fish on the boat? The Bible doesn't exclude fish from going on the Ark. Logic says you would do that. Logic says nobody had a classification of what an animal was either. So how did they know to take two of every species? Two of every type of dog? Just two dogs? And then they evolved into the dogs we have now? Wait, you people aren't that comfortable with evolution.

The story has so many holes in. But you fill them up with "Well, you know, you don't know what you're talking about"

And yet your excuses are what? Nothing. You didn't talk about the fact that inbreeding is a huge thing among humans. Whenever you want to excuse something, just blame fallen angels or something else.

Just one thing:
The animals that entered the ark CAME TO NOAH. He didn't go looking for them Genesis 7:15
And it was 1 male/female pair of UNCLEAN animals. SEVEN pair of clean animals

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The boat would never have functioned, it's the same size as the largest wooden boat ever built, and that leaked so much that it required modern-ish pumps to keep it afloat.

It wasn't a "boat." It was an ARK. It was designed to FLOAT. That is all

 

[The Irish Ram]

And does God mean what God does?

If God killed all but 9 people and all animals but two of each because of human violence, then why didn't God do the same thing in WW2? The Holocaust, dropping nukes, deaths all over the place.

Understanding the data huh?

What am I not understanding about Noah's Ark?

God killed loads of people in a flood, yes or not?
There were supposedly up to 9 people left, yes or not?

You're telling me I have "limited expertise", but all that sounds like to me is you saying "I'm religious, so I'm right".

I'm using logic here.

The would never have functioned, it's the same size as the largest wooden boat ever built, and that leaked so much that it required modern-ish pumps to keep it afloat.

There's no way you could get two of every species on the boat. Why would you take fish on the boat? The Bible doesn't exclude fish from going on the Ark. Logic says you would do that. Logic says nobody had a classification of what an animal was either. So how did they know to take two of every species? Two of every type of dog? Just two dogs? And then they evolved into the dogs we have now? Wait, you people aren't that comfortable with evolution.

The story has so many holes in. But you fill them up with "Well, you know, you don't know what you're talking about"

And yet your excuses are what? Nothing. You didn't talk about the fact that inbreeding is a huge thing among humans. Whenever you want to excuse something, just blame fallen angels or something else.

The ark was covered with pitch inside and out, and it worked.
Fish can swim in water.
God created the animals and easily summoned them.
Two canines that adapted to their environment. Evolved if you prefer.
What we know didn't happen is the canines did not turn into chickens. Monkeys didn't morph into humans. They continue to be monkeys.
Judging from the questions you ask, you don't seem to know what you are talking about.
Fallen angels are blamed when they are responsible for an event.
8 people, not 9.

 

[norwegen]

The consequences are not always obvious but, will be felt.

No consequences from violating the Ten Commandments. None.

If you murder or steal, you suffer consequences from the state, not the temple cult. Noone ever suffered consequences of temple jurisdiction except those in the temple cult.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The ark was covered with pitch inside and out, and it worked.
Fish can swim in water.
God created the animals and easily summoned them.
Two canines that adapted to their environment. Evolved if you prefer.
What we know didn't happen is the canines did not turn into chickens. Monkeys didn't morph into humans. They continue to be monkeys.
Judging from the questions you ask, you don't seem to know what you are talking about.
Fallen angels are blamed when they are responsible for an event.
8 people, not 9.

Wyoming (schooner) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Wyoming was the largest known wooden ship ever built."

"With a length of 450 ft (140 m) from jib-boom tip to spanker boom tip"

Noah's Ark - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"(Genesis 6:14–16): the ark is to be 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high (approximately 134×22×13 m or 440×72×43 ft)"

So the SS Wyoming was 450 feet long. The Ark was supposedly 440 feet, a little shorter than the SS Wyoming.

"Because of her extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold. Wyoming had to use pumps to keep her hold relatively free of water."

The Tragic Tale of the SS Wyoming

The SS Wyoming, launched in 1909, was the largest wooden ship ever built. Measuring 450 feet in length, it was constructed primarily for coal transportation. Despite its impressive size and initial success, the vessel faced significant challenges due to its wooden structure. The ship ultimately...

nauticalvoice.com

"The construction of the SS Wyoming pushed the limits of wooden shipbuilding. Wood has natural growth limitations, and joining beams restrict the size of vessels. As the Wyoming’s length increased, so did the stress it endured from ocean waves. This stress caused sagging, allowing water to enter the hold, which required constant pumping. To counteract this, large metal cross-braces were added to the ship."

Wooden ships used pitch. But pitch alone was not going to keep the SS Wyoming afloat. It needed "large metal cross-braces" something that didn't exist in Noah's time (assuming there ever was a time) or the time the Old Testament was written in.

Also, the pumps were because the wood simply couldn't cope.

Dimensional Lumber Weight Calculator & Size Chart

Dimensional lumber weight explained, with a calculator (and a chart that shows lumber weights for Sitka Spruce, Douglas Fir, and Southern Yellow Pine lumber).

roofobservations.com

Southern Yellow pine (the lightest I could find in the list) is 0.297 lb/ft
Bald Cypress (I guess this is the closest to what the Bible says) is .25 lb/ft

So, more or less the same weight.

So you're telling me that the Ark would have survived when it didn't have what the Wyoming needed to stay afloat????

Fish can swim in water. So why would the Bible write:

"I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. "

Fish breathe. So God said he was going to destroy fish by flooding (no sniggering now)

"You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you."

Yes, "all living creatures"... fish happen to be "living creatures".

God, the intelligent and masterful God, told Noah, to put two of every species of fish on the Ark.

Really?

And apparently I don't know what I'm talking about.

So, you explain to me how the SS Wyoming struggled to stay afloat, you've tried once, you used the Bible and said "pitch", which is nonsense, because wooden ships used pitch too, like the SS Wyoming.

Then explain why God told Noah to put two of every fish on the Ark.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't "believe".

Believing is accepting without knowing. So... I'll wait until I have knowledge of something.

The topic is about whether the ten commandments apply to "us", whoever "us" is.

I pointed out that Christians are very adept at cherry picking whatever they want to include or exclude.

I don't care about any of the commandments. I think that Christians will do whichever ones they like and ignore the rest. Because that's what I have evidence for on a daily basis.

That's what I KNOW, not what I BELIEVE.

The story of mankind is that everyone can choose the way of God--or their own way. The Commandments are the target that Christians (and most of mankind, for that matter) endeavor to hit. Perhaps you are arguing that Christians are the worst at hitting the target, that they are missing it more than any other group? Could be, but that doesn't mean most Christians aren't trying. We fail, we re-group, take aim, and try again. Why? Because we trust the ways of God.

Speaking of God....God exists outside of time. At the same moment, he knows the beginnings and the ends of all things. Consider this. Genesis tells us that God looked at creation and saw that not only was it good, it was very good. Being outside of time, God saw that mankind would suffer through natural disasters, man-made disasters, handicaps, illness, etc. And, by the end all would be well because he had made creation not only good, but very good.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The story of mankind is that everyone can choose the way of God--or their own way. The Commandments are the target that Christians (and most of mankind, for that matter) endeavor to hit. Perhaps you are arguing that Christians are the worst at hitting the target, that they are missing it more than any other group? Could be, but that doesn't mean most Christians aren't trying. We fail, we re-group, take aim, and try again. Why? Because we trust the ways of God.

Speaking of God....God exists outside of time. At the same moment, he knows the beginnings and the ends of all things. Consider this. Genesis tells us that God looked at creation and saw that not only was it good, it was very good. Being outside of time, God saw that mankind would suffer through natural disasters, man-made disasters, handicaps, illness, etc. And, by the end all would be well because he had made creation not only good, but very good.

Which has what to do with cherry picking?