Zone1 The Second Coming of Christ

[ding]

Jesus never existed, there is no original sin its all made up

Go back and look at my response to the last time you said this and then ran away.

 

[TNHarley]

Human AND divine. Read Isaiah 9:6! And there are others too, that's just one off the top of my head.

That is theoretically impossible, according to Jewish faith.
You are citing the king james version, which is not correct.

B. Isaiah 9:6 — “Mighty God, Everlasting Father”​

This is the biggest point of disagreement.

Christian reading:​

The child is divine because he is called “Mighty God.”

Jewish reading:​

The Hebrew grammar is different than English translations.Jewish translations read it as:

“The Wonderful Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father calls his name: Prince of Peace.”

In other words:

• God is giving the name
• The child is not being called God
• The titles describe God, not the child

This reading is consistent with:

• Jewish grammar
• Ancient Jewish commentaries
• The fact that no other biblical king is ever called God

 

[ding]

That is theoretically impossible, according to Jewish faith.
You are citing the king james version, which is not correct.

B. Isaiah​

Speaking of Isaiah...

Isaiah 53:1-12

Who would believe what we have heard? To whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? He grew up like a sapling before him, like a shoot from the parched earth; He had no majestic bearing to catch our eye, no beauty to draw us to him. He was spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, knowing pain, Like one from whom you turn your face, spurned, and we held him in no esteem. Yet it was our pain that he bore, our sufferings he endured. We thought of him as stricken, struck down by God and afflicted, But he was pierced for our sins, crushed for our iniquity. He bore the punishment that makes us whole, by his wounds we were healed. We had all gone astray like sheep, all following our own way; But the LORD laid upon him the guilt of us all. Though harshly treated, he submitted and did not open his mouth; Like a lamb led to slaughter or a sheep silent before shearers, he did not open his mouth. Seized and condemned, he was taken away. Who would have thought any more of his destiny? For he was cut off from the land of the living, struck for the sins of his people. He was given a grave among the wicked, a burial place with evildoers, Though he had done no wrong, nor was deceit found in his mouth. But it was the LORD’s will to crush him with pain. By making his life as a reparation offering, he shall see his offspring, shall lengthen his days, and the LORD’s will shall be accomplished through him. Because of his anguish he shall see the light; because of his knowledge he shall be content; My servant, the just one, shall justify the many, their iniquity he shall bear. Therefore I will give him his portion among the many, and he shall divide the spoils with the mighty, Because he surrendered himself to death, was counted among the transgressors, Bore the sins of many, and interceded for the transgressors.

 

[Hafar1014]

Go back and look at my response to the last time you said this and then ran away.

Since there is no original sin there is no reason for Jesus to exist which proves he was made up to be an idol

 

[ding]

Since there is no original sin there is no reason for Jesus to exist which proves he was made up to be an idol

Go back and look at my response to the last time you said this too and then ran away.

You have a pattern of running away.

 

[ding]

Since there is no original sin there is no reason for Jesus to exist which proves he was made up to be an idol

In Judaism, yetzer hara (Hebrew: יֵצֶר הַרַע‎, romanized: yēṣer haraʿ) is a term for humankind's congenital inclination to do evil. The concept is prominent in rabbinic texts and in the works of the Syriac poet Narsai.[1] The term itself is drawn from the phrase "the inclination of the heart of man is evil" (Biblical Hebrew: יֵצֶר לֵב הָאָדָם רַע, romanized: yêṣer lêḇ hā-ʾāḏām raʿ), which occurs twice at the beginning of the Torah (Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 8:21).

 

[alang1216]

How exactly was that helping others achieve salvation when Paul himself admitted that if Jesus didn't rise from the dead he and the other disciples jeopardize the salvation of the whole Christian community?

Paul obviously was a true believer who wanted to spread the message of Jesus.

 

[alang1216]

alang1216 you can disagree all you want with post #170, but Paul has already "cut your argument off at the pass" with 1Cor 15:13-15,18-19.

The doctrine of the resurrection is central to Christianity – so much so that St. Paul states:

If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead… Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied (1Cor 15:13-15,18-19).

I don't doubt that Paul honestly believed in the resurrection of Jesus. So what is your point? Do you think that if Paul believed something, it must have been true?

 

[hobelim]

The Bible declares Jesus Christ is the God/Man. Yet you mock and discredit the Person of Jesus Christ.

No, the Bible does not declare that Jesus was a mangod. Thats would be the Roman Catholic Church and all of its over 30,000 bastard denominations that perpetuate this lie.

What you don't realize (go figure) is that everything I have made known to you I have drawn from what Jesus taught according to was is written in the Bible, the Word of God, without adding, subtracting, or changing a single word, which in reality glorifies Jesus because the Divine wisdom revealed is irrefutable and irresistible to those who love truth, and the "dead in christ", as the word of God reveals, even with the least faith, will be the first to rise at the resurrection to meet Jesus in the air, in the clouds above the heads of the dearly departed.



The truth, the very truth, is that it is you and every single Christian in the world who mocks Jesus and has brought the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people all over the world by perpetuating the scurrilous lie that he claimed to be God which is what his philosophical enemies falsely accused him of to discredit his teachings so that people would dismiss him out of hand because even in the first century, as it remains to this day, anyone who claims to be God, my God who is pure Spirit, incorporeal, is certifiably insane.

The only one being mocked and discredited is you by the rancid tripe dripping from your unclean lips. You are the fake, a phony. If you had any faith at all, any love for God and truth you would have repented and crawled out of the comfort of your grave decades ago.

¿Entiendes? ¿No? ¡Que juevada!

pinche payaso

 

[Quantrill]

Continued from post #(175)

Christ came the First time and suffered and was rejected and crucified. Christ will/must return to set up the Kingdom as promised to Israel, to rule over the world; the Second Coming. It is yet future

Since I have come this far in establishing the purpose of the 2nd Coming, it raises the question, or should, what does that mean for now? For the time between the First Coming and the Second Coming.

Israel rejected her Messiah, her King, and killed Him. But before Christ was nailed to the Cross, that rejection had already taken place. The Jewish Rabbis and religious leaders were already watching Him, trying to catch Him in something where they could accuse Him. And of course they tried to use their Law, or their interpretation of their Law, their traditions, against Him. Just as they used the Law as a heavy burden upon all the Jews.

(Matt. 12) should be seen as the point where Christ no longer continued in His effort to establish the Kingdom. It is the events here that completed the rejection of Him by His own, Israel. And it was a rejection of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The events that triggered this occur on a Sabbath.

Jesus and His disciples were on their way to the synagogue. They were hungry and picked some ears of corn to eat. The Pharisees saw it and accuse them of breaking the sabbath. At which time Jesus rebuked their ignorance of the Scripture and rebuked them. (Matt. 12:1-8)

Jesus then went to the synagogue and there was a man with a withered hand. So the Pharisees, trying to trap Jesus, asked Him if it was lawful to heal on the Sabbath. Jesus once again rebuked their perversion of the Law and healed the man's hand. It was then that the religious leaders decided Jesus must die. (Matt. 12:9-14) And Jesus withdrew from them with multitudes following Him and He healed all who needed it. And told all to keep silent about it. (Matt. 12:15-16)

Then we are given a hint at what is going to take place after Israel's rejection of Him. This would be a fulfillment of (Isaiah 42:1-4). (Matt. 12:17-21) "That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

"Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgement to the Gentiles.

"He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

"A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

"And in his name shall the Gentiles trust."

More yet to say, but this is the basic thrust of what will occur after Israel rejects and kills her Messiah. God turns to the Gentiles, which the Old Testament already prophesied of in (Isaiah 42:1-4)

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

No, the Bible does not declare that Jesus was a mangod. Thats would be the Roman Catholic Church and all of its over 30,000 bastard denominations that perpetuate this lie.

What you don't realize (go figure) is that everything I have made known to you I have drawn from what Jesus taught according to was is written in the Bible, the Word of God, without adding, subtracting, or changing a single word, which in reality glorifies Jesus because the Divine wisdom revealed is irrefutable and irresistible to those who love truth, and the "dead in christ", as the word of God reveals, even with the least faith, will be the first to rise at the resurrection to meet Jesus in the air, in the clouds above the heads of the dearly departed.



The truth, the very truth, is that it is you and every single Christian in the world mocks Jesus and has brought the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people all over the world by perpetuating the scurrilous lie that he claimed to be God which is what his philosophical enemies falsely accused him of to discredit his teachings so that people would dismiss him out of hand because even in the first century, as it remains to this day, anyone who claims to be God, my God who is pure Spirit, incorporeal, is certifiably insane.

The only one being mocked and discredited is you by the rancid tripe dripping from your unclean lips.

¿Entiendes? ¿No? ¡Que juevada!

pinche payaso

(Acts 20:28) "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to fee the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Jesus was the God/Man.

You need to apply more of your 'Preparation H' lip balm to your lips, as you keep talking out your ass.

Chile Con Carne

Quantrill

 

[ding]

Paul obviously was a true believer who wanted to spread the message of Jesus.

So he was duped? Who duped into believing Jesus is God?

 

[hobelim]

(Acts 20:28) "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to fee the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Jesus was the God/Man.

You need to apply more of your 'Preparation H' lip balm to your lips, as you keep talking out your ass.

Chile Con Carne

Do you really have no clue how incoherent this post is? No inkling at all that your bullshit has already been irrevocably extirpated? Thats a shame!

You do have my condolences.

 

[ding]

I don't doubt that Paul honestly believed in the resurrection of Jesus. So what is your point? Do you think that if Paul believed something, it must have been true?

My point is that there wasn't a more credible witness than Paul because he knew the consequences of worshiping an idol. He knew he would be ostracized by his people. He knew he would be persecuted and punished for his beliefs. He knew that if he were wrong he was he was committing the gravest sin possible. He weighed all of that and decided it would be worse to not worship Jesus because he knew Jesus is God. And he was persecuted and punished for his beliefs. He was imprisoned and put to death for his beliefs. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose. And he never wavered.

I don't believe just because Paul believed Jesus is God, that it made it true. I do believe Paul must have believed he had good reasons to believe Jesus is God or he wouldn't have believed that. I do believe Paul's beliefs made sense in light of all of the evidence. The written gospel accounts are consistent with Paul's beliefs. The Babylonian Talmud independently corroborates the accounts in the gospels. Non-Christian historians recorded that Jesus was worshiped as God by the first Christians. And there are no competing accounts which challenge any of this.

What evidence or reason do you believe Paul didn't believe in the resurrection of Jesus? Then I want you to compare your reasons to my reasons and let me know which one is more credible.

 

[hobelim]

So he was duped? Who duped into believing Jesus is God?

Paul was a Roman shill who told Christians to submit to Nero OR ELSE. A guilt ridden self loathing masochistic homophobic misogynist who infiltrated the movement to curse the Gentiles and insure the Jewish people would never accept Jesus, who he hated, as the messiah by promoting Mithraism, the secret Babylonian MYSTERY RELIGION of the Roman government and military under the name of a substitute counterfeit Jesus, the Antichrist.

Paul must be very proud of you, bearing the mark of the beast, 666, on your forehead as if it was a badge of honor.

Sucker.

 

[ding]

Paul was a Roman shill who told Christians to submit to Nero OR ELSE. A guilt ridden self loathing masochistic homophobic misogynist who infiltrated the movement to curse the Gentiles and insure the Jewish people would never accept Jesus, who he hated, as the messiah by promoting Mithraism, the secret Babylonian MYSTERY RELIGION of the Roman government and military under the name of a substitute counterfeit Jesus, the Antichrist.

Paul must be very proud of you, bearing the mark of the beast, 666, on your forehead as if it was a badge of honor.

Sucker.

The first Christians were Jewish. Paul wasn't alone. So your whole conspiracy theory falls apart.

What were the Jewish people supposed to accept about Jesus? And why are there so many accounts of miracles? Why are there accounts of Jesus behaving and claiming equality with God?

 

[ding]

Paul was a Roman shill who told Christians to submit to Nero OR ELSE.

You mean the Nero who persecuted Christians and executed Paul? That's quite a conspiracy theory you have there. Too bad there's no evidence for that. In fact, the evidence shows exactly the opposite; that Paul wasn't a Roman shill and was persecuted for his beliefs instead.

 

[ding]

A guilt ridden self loathing masochistic homophobic misogynist who infiltrated the movement to curse the Gentiles and insure the Jewish people would never accept Jesus, who he hated

Do you have any evidence that Paul was a guilt ridden self loathing masochistic homophobic misogynist?

Why did Paul hate Jesus and what evidence do you have for that?

Why did Paul want the Jewish people to not accept Jesus and do you have any evidence for that?

 

[ding]

...promoting Mithraism, the secret Babylonian MYSTERY RELIGION of the Roman government and military under the name of a substitute counterfeit Jesus, the Antichrist.

Who all was involved in this conspiracy Was it just Paul or did he have help?

 

[ding]

Yes.

Paul wrote that letter years before Nero unleashed the first of many Christian persecutions. So they used Paul and then executed him. It's a very Roman thing to do. Does this shock you? You must've never spent any time living in the wilderness among the wild beasts.

Unfortunately for your conspiracy theory Paul's persecution doesn't match your timeline.

Paul was extensively persecuted, both before and after his conversion, facing beatings, stonings, imprisonment, plots against his life, and constant hostility for his Christian teachings, experiencing deep hardship throughout his missionary journeys and Roman imprisonment. He was flogged, stoned, and imprisoned multiple times, even left for dead after being stoned in Lystra, and later lived under house arrest in Rome.

Do you have any evidence that Paul was a shill for Rome?