Zone1 The Second Coming of Christ

[Quantrill]

There is no NT its the fake testament

There can't be a 'fake New Testament' without the real New Testament.

So, where is the conspiracy to change the real New Testament to the fake New Testament? In fact, where is the real New Testament?

Quantrill

 

[ding]

the Gnostics

Gnostic Christians believed there were two gods; the God of the OT who was the god of the material world and was evil and the god of the NT who was the god of the spiritual world and was good. They were a reprehensible people, who had reprehensible practices and were the aggressors against the Catholic Church. They brought their destruction upon themselves. Your understanding of history is poor.

 

[ding]

There is no NT its the fake testament

So it must have been a conspiracy, right?

 

[Quantrill]

So it must have been a conspiracy, right?

See post #(108) @Hafar 1014 says he visits mediums and witchcraft for help. Yet he says his Bible is the Pentateuch and (Lev. 19:31) forbids such practice.

He is a liar and doesn't even believe his own bible. He is a phony.

Quantrill

 

[Carl in Michigan]

No wonder you are so full of shit. You haven't had any experiences with the 'afterlife'. If what you're saying is true, and I don't believe a word of it. One can have an experience with the spirit world. But in your case it would only be demonic.

But, as I said, I don't believe a word you're saying, and certainly wouldn't read anything you have written. I see enough of your bullshit here.

Save you personal stories for someone who gives a shit.

Quantrill

Yep. The Scriptures are clear about seeking out "mediums". That's what I meant, Judaism provides no answers regarding the afterlife. The New Testament completes the Old

 

[ding]

Yep. The Scriptures are clear about seeking out "mediums". That's what I meant, Judaism provides no answers regarding the afterlife. The New Testament completes the Old

The Old Testament (OT) has verses hinting at an afterlife, though less clearly than the New Testament, with concepts evolving to include Sheol (the grave/realm of dead), resurrection hope, and special cases like Enoch and Elijah being taken to God, with passages in Job 19:25-27, Psalm 16:10-11, and Daniel 12:2 pointing toward future life or reunion.

Key OT Concepts & Verses:

• Sheol: A shadowy realm for all the dead, sometimes seen as a place of unconsciousness (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10), but also mentioned for both righteous (Genesis 37:35) and wicked (Psalm 9:17).
• Resurrection Hope: A clearer belief in future resurrection emerges, notably in Daniel.
  • Daniel 12:2: "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt".
• Personal Encounter with God: Job expresses faith in seeing God after death.
  • Job 19:25-27: "I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth... and after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God".
• Messianic Hope & Afterlife: David's psalm points beyond himself to Christ.
  • Psalm 16:10-11: "You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will you let your holy one see decay. You make known to me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy".
• Special Cases: Enoch and Elijah were taken to God without dying, suggesting a form of glorified existence.
  • Genesis 5:24: "Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away".
  • 2 Kings 2:11: Elijah ascended to heaven in a whirlwind.

Evolution of Understanding:
The Old Testament shows a "progressive revelation," with understanding of the afterlife becoming clearer over time, culminating in the New Testament's focus on resurrection and eternal life through Jesus Christ.

 

[alang1216]

That's a hard argument to make. Right, alang1216 ?

Yep. That is why I never believed there was an organized conspiracy.

 

[ding]

Yep. That is why I never believed there was an organized conspiracy.

You have to place the "organized" caveat on it to hedge your bets?



If it's done in secret to harm others, we just call it a conspiracy.

 

[alang1216]

You have to place the "organized" caveat on it to hedge your bets?



If it's done in secret to harm others, we just call it a conspiracy.

If it's done by one person, in secret, to harm others, we just call it fraud. If it is done to help others achieve salvation, it is a theological embellishment. There is zero evidence that Jesus was born on 25 Dec. Is Christmas a conspiracy?

 

[ding]

If it's done by one person, in secret, to harm others, we just call it fraud. If it is done to help others achieve salvation, it is a theological embellishment. There is zero evidence that Jesus was born on 25 Dec. Is Christmas a conspiracy?

According to Paul himself, Paul knows that if he is lying, he and the other disciples have jeopardized the salvation of the whole Christian community, and furthermore he emerges as a false witness (a perjurer) before God, and is answerable to Him. The consequences of lying to (or even deceiving) believers about the resurrection cannot be overstated.

So by your very definition if Paul and the apostles were making theological embellishments (which is a joke and not supported by anything) they were indeed committing fraud. And since they did it in secrecy, it was a conspiracy to commit fraud.

 

[ding]

If it's done by one person, in secret, to harm others, we just call it fraud. If it is done to help others achieve salvation, it is a theological embellishment. There is zero evidence that Jesus was born on 25 Dec. Is Christmas a conspiracy?

What did they gain by creating fantastical stories about Jesus performing miracles and rising from the dead and proclaiming himself as equal to God?

What was their motive?

 

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

(Deut. 7:6-8) "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

"The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for you were the fewest of all people:

"But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."

Yes, Jacob was deceitful in obtaining the blessing from Esau. (Gen. 27:1-33) But Esau already sold his birthright for a bowl of soup. (Gen. 25:27-34) Thus Esau despised his birthright. (Gen. 25:34) And God hated Esau, but loved Jacob. (Malachi 1:2-3) (Rom. 9:13)

No, God doesn't honor dishonesty and trickery. And Jacob would pay for it with Laban's dishonesty and trickery to him. (Gen. 29:15-26) The fact is that Esau was never going to get the blessing as he cared not for God or his birthright. And God can accomplish His will even through the wrongs done by man.

The bottom line, God loved Jacob and hated Esau.

Quantrill

So God/Jesus in fact does not love everybody?

 

[Quantrill]

So God/Jesus in fact does not love everybody?

Exactly right. Many will use (John 3:16) to prove that God loves everyone. "For God so loved the world..." But the world speaks to the world order, not to every person.

We are told in (1 John 2:15) that we who are believers are not to love the world. "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

God does love the world order as it is of His creation. But God doesn't want the believer to love the world, as at present it is under the authority of Satan.

Recognize that God knows who everyone is before they make any decision to believe on Him. And He loves His own, and He hates those not of Him. (Romans 9:11-13) "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.....As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

We who are Christians don't know who everyone is, but God does. Thus we witness to all the hope that is in the Gospel of Christ. And the Holy Spirit will do His work in the calling. Our witness is pleasing to God whether or not one turns to Christ.

(2 Cor. 2:15-16) "For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?"

Quantrill

 

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

Exactly right. Many will use (John 3:16) to prove that God loves everyone. "For God so loved the world..." But the world speaks to the world order, not to every person.

We are told in (1 John 2:15) that we who are believers are not to love the world. "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

God does love the world order as it is of His creation. But God doesn't want the believer to love the world, as at present it is under the authority of Satan.

Recognize that God knows who everyone is before they make any decision to believe on Him. And He loves His own, and He hates those not of Him. (Romans 9:11-13) "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.....As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

We who are Christians don't know who everyone is, but God does. Thus we witness to all the hope that is in the Gospel of Christ. And the Holy Spirit will do His work in the calling. Our witness is pleasing to God whether or not one turns to Christ.

(2 Cor. 2:15-16) "For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?"

Quantrill

So all those pastors of both conservative and liberal churches, both traditional and non-traditional churches, have been lying to us all these years when they say, "God loves you."

Thank you for making that clear.

 

[Quantrill]

Continued from post #(76)

So, I have shown that the 2nd Coming of Christ is also called the 'day of vengeance of our God'. See (Isaiah 6:2) And the 2nd Coming occurs as God is sending Christ to set up the Kingdom of God upon the earth. This is the 5th Kingdom Daniel saw in his visions. See (Dan. 2:36-45) (Dan. 7:1-14).

(Dan. 7:13-14) "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

"And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

This 2nd Coming will be unlike the First. All will see Him. Christ will come in all His glory as the God/Man to set up His rule upon the earth. He will not be the humble Man Who walked in those dusty Palestinian streets preaching the Good News. Whose end was covered in His blood on the Cross. He comes now as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. It is the 'day of vengeance' and He will have it.

(Isaiah 63:1-6) "Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

"Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

"I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

"For the day of vengeance is in my heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

"And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

"And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth."

This is how the Kingdom of God is going to come upon the earth. This is the purpose of the 2nd Coming of Christ. "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

So all those pastors of both conservative and liberal churches, both traditional and non-traditional churches, have been lying to us all these years when they say, "God loves you."

Thank you for making that clear.

As I said, God knows who are is. The Christians do not. Thus we witness to all. God does so love the world that He sent His Son Jesus Christ. So the Christian witness involves the love of God. Thus it is not wrong to bring God's love into the witness. It would be mistaken to say to one, that God loves 'you', as that would be an unknown at that time. But they have not said that to lie. They are just mistaken. Big difference.

Your quite welcome.

Quantrill

 

[alang1216]

What did they gain by creating fantastical stories about Jesus performing miracles and rising from the dead and proclaiming himself as equal to God?

What was their motive?

As I implied, it was done to help others achieve salvation. Could there be a more noble goal?

 

[ding]

As I implied, it was done to help others achieve salvation. Could there be a more noble goal?

How exactly was that helping others achieve salvation when Paul himself admitted that if Jesus didn't rise from the dead he and the other disciples jeopardize the salvation of the whole Christian community?

 

[ding]

alang1216 you can disagree all you want with post #170, but Paul has already "cut your argument off at the pass" with 1Cor 15:13-15,18-19.

The doctrine of the resurrection is central to Christianity – so much so that St. Paul states:

If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead… Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied (1Cor 15:13-15,18-19).

 

[Hafar1014]

alang1216 you can disagree all you want with post #170, but Paul has already "cut your argument off at the pass" with 1Cor 15:13-15,18-19.

The doctrine of the resurrection is central to Christianity – so much so that St. Paul states:

If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead… Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied (1Cor 15:13-15,18-19).

Jesus never existed, there is no original sin its all made up