The sad fall of liberalism

[Two Thumbs]

Of course, there are millions of instances that could be provided to show just how far liberalism has fallen in terms of being an ideology of substance, having some integrity, honesty, etc. As it has been examined over the decades and its policies have failed so profoundly, those that subscribe to it have been forced to stoop to lower and lower measures instead of just abandoning a failed ideology. Most notably: nonsensical and disingenuous positions.

I think this is one of the many instances that are a good example. While doing some research I came across a specific section of this article hit me like a bolt of lighting for being a prime example of the nonsensical and disingenuous positions of the modern-day liberal. The article instructs its readers on questions to pose to libertarians to "defeat" them. Here was the second question in the article:

Which gets us to our next test question: Is a libertarian willing to admit that production is the result of many forces, each of which should be recognized and rewarded?

Retail stores like Walmart and fast-food corporations like McDonalds cannot produce wealth without employees. Don’t those employees have the right to “coordinate their actions with those of others in order to achieve their purposes”—for example, in unions? You would think that free-market philosophers would encourage workers, as part of a free-market economy, to discover the market value for their services through negotiation.

Is our libertarian willing to acknowledge that workers who bargain for their services, individually and collectively, are also employing market forces?

Now...what is the problem with this? Well, for starters, libertarians are very open about the fact that the ideology revolves around the individual (and for the record here - I am not, nor have I ever been - a libertarian). So how is it a "gotcha" question to ask them if they support the collective??? But more importantly - how are employees banning together in the "collective" mindset to coerce a company into giving them what they want, "free-market"? It's not. At all. It's about the furthest thing from "free-market" that exists. If you were so good at your job, why would you need other people to step up and strike for you? If you were so good at your job, you could simply walk into your managers office and tell them what you want and tell them that if you didn't get it, you would leave. That is "free-market". The individual performing their talents and make a case for what their talents are worth. The last sentence in particular (highlighted in blue above) is the most absurd. Your value in the free market is completely and totally linked to you as an individual. If you decide to leave Walmart or McDonalds for a new job, does the new business accept all of your co-workers as part of the deal? Do they all come with you? Of course not.

As usual, the left - which has been annihilated on the battlefield of ideas - results to nonsensical and disingenuous positions to make a case which could not be made with a logical and rational position. They attempt to make the case that a single individuals "value" is actually the value of the collective and thus why any libertarian should logically support unions. Well, unless the collective accepts and leaves jobs together until they retire, then we can unequivocally conclude that each individual has their own unique market value in the free-market and as such, asking the collective (especially more talented, more valuable employees) to use their leverage to coerce a company to increase your compensation package above your value for your benefit (of which you will of course not give a portion of that increase back to said collective for their work in getting you that increase - proving the disgusting hypocrisy of liberalisms "collective mindset" while hoarding the increase instead of splitting it with the collective) is nonsensical and disingenuous.

Lastly, because libertarians are very serious about their commitment to freedom and choice, they would be the last people on earth to tell you that unions should be "banned". They wouldn't care if you had union - they just wouldn't be a part of one. Literally every aspect of this question fails in a very major way. It is so disingenuous and it's the epitome of the entire ideology and the people who subscribe to it.

11 Questions You Should Ask Libertarians to See if They're Hypocrites

When's the last time Conservatives had a major policy victory?

2014

taking over the House.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Of course, there are millions of instances that could be provided to show just how far liberalism has fallen in terms of being an ideology of substance, having some integrity, honesty, etc. As it has been examined over the decades and its policies have failed so profoundly, those that subscribe to it have been forced to stoop to lower and lower measures instead of just abandoning a failed ideology. Most notably: nonsensical and disingenuous positions.

I think this is one of the many instances that are a good example. While doing some research I came across a specific section of this article hit me like a bolt of lighting for being a prime example of the nonsensical and disingenuous positions of the modern-day liberal. The article instructs its readers on questions to pose to libertarians to "defeat" them. Here was the second question in the article:

Which gets us to our next test question: Is a libertarian willing to admit that production is the result of many forces, each of which should be recognized and rewarded?

Retail stores like Walmart and fast-food corporations like McDonalds cannot produce wealth without employees. Don’t those employees have the right to “coordinate their actions with those of others in order to achieve their purposes”—for example, in unions? You would think that free-market philosophers would encourage workers, as part of a free-market economy, to discover the market value for their services through negotiation.

Is our libertarian willing to acknowledge that workers who bargain for their services, individually and collectively, are also employing market forces?

Now...what is the problem with this? Well, for starters, libertarians are very open about the fact that the ideology revolves around the individual (and for the record here - I am not, nor have I ever been - a libertarian). So how is it a "gotcha" question to ask them if they support the collective??? But more importantly - how are employees banning together in the "collective" mindset to coerce a company into giving them what they want, "free-market"? It's not. At all. It's about the furthest thing from "free-market" that exists. If you were so good at your job, why would you need other people to step up and strike for you? If you were so good at your job, you could simply walk into your managers office and tell them what you want and tell them that if you didn't get it, you would leave. That is "free-market". The individual performing their talents and make a case for what their talents are worth. The last sentence in particular (highlighted in blue above) is the most absurd. Your value in the free market is completely and totally linked to you as an individual. If you decide to leave Walmart or McDonalds for a new job, does the new business accept all of your co-workers as part of the deal? Do they all come with you? Of course not.

As usual, the left - which has been annihilated on the battlefield of ideas - results to nonsensical and disingenuous positions to make a case which could not be made with a logical and rational position. They attempt to make the case that a single individuals "value" is actually the value of the collective and thus why any libertarian should logically support unions. Well, unless the collective accepts and leaves jobs together until they retire, then we can unequivocally conclude that each individual has their own unique market value in the free-market and as such, asking the collective (especially more talented, more valuable employees) to use their leverage to coerce a company to increase your compensation package above your value for your benefit (of which you will of course not give a portion of that increase back to said collective for their work in getting you that increase - proving the disgusting hypocrisy of liberalisms "collective mindset" while hoarding the increase instead of splitting it with the collective) is nonsensical and disingenuous.

Lastly, because libertarians are very serious about their commitment to freedom and choice, they would be the last people on earth to tell you that unions should be "banned". They wouldn't care if you had union - they just wouldn't be a part of one. Literally every aspect of this question fails in a very major way. It is so disingenuous and it's the epitome of the entire ideology and the people who subscribe to it.

11 Questions You Should Ask Libertarians to See if They're Hypocrites

When's the last time Conservatives had a major policy victory?

2014

taking over the House.

That is not a policy victory. That is an election victory followed by no advance of the conservative agenda.

PS, they took over the House in 2010.

 

[Siete]

Republicans are more divided than ever before, the GOP is gasping for breath, and Liberalism sadly fell?



after they (Liberals) win the 2016 election remind them they hit bottom.

what liberal is running for Pres?

sorry, trick question, b/c no liberal is running.



aaand proof bomb.

Donald Trump is a Liberal running for POTUS.

so are you voitng for him?

knowing that there are no others?

I voted for him this am after my 2nd cup of coffee.

 

[Siete]

Of course, there are millions of instances that could be provided to show just how far liberalism has fallen in terms of being an ideology of substance, having some integrity, honesty, etc. As it has been examined over the decades and its policies have failed so profoundly, those that subscribe to it have been forced to stoop to lower and lower measures instead of just abandoning a failed ideology. Most notably: nonsensical and disingenuous positions.

I think this is one of the many instances that are a good example. While doing some research I came across a specific section of this article hit me like a bolt of lighting for being a prime example of the nonsensical and disingenuous positions of the modern-day liberal. The article instructs its readers on questions to pose to libertarians to "defeat" them. Here was the second question in the article:

Which gets us to our next test question: Is a libertarian willing to admit that production is the result of many forces, each of which should be recognized and rewarded?

Retail stores like Walmart and fast-food corporations like McDonalds cannot produce wealth without employees. Don’t those employees have the right to “coordinate their actions with those of others in order to achieve their purposes”—for example, in unions? You would think that free-market philosophers would encourage workers, as part of a free-market economy, to discover the market value for their services through negotiation.

Is our libertarian willing to acknowledge that workers who bargain for their services, individually and collectively, are also employing market forces?

Now...what is the problem with this? Well, for starters, libertarians are very open about the fact that the ideology revolves around the individual (and for the record here - I am not, nor have I ever been - a libertarian). So how is it a "gotcha" question to ask them if they support the collective??? But more importantly - how are employees banning together in the "collective" mindset to coerce a company into giving them what they want, "free-market"? It's not. At all. It's about the furthest thing from "free-market" that exists. If you were so good at your job, why would you need other people to step up and strike for you? If you were so good at your job, you could simply walk into your managers office and tell them what you want and tell them that if you didn't get it, you would leave. That is "free-market". The individual performing their talents and make a case for what their talents are worth. The last sentence in particular (highlighted in blue above) is the most absurd. Your value in the free market is completely and totally linked to you as an individual. If you decide to leave Walmart or McDonalds for a new job, does the new business accept all of your co-workers as part of the deal? Do they all come with you? Of course not.

As usual, the left - which has been annihilated on the battlefield of ideas - results to nonsensical and disingenuous positions to make a case which could not be made with a logical and rational position. They attempt to make the case that a single individuals "value" is actually the value of the collective and thus why any libertarian should logically support unions. Well, unless the collective accepts and leaves jobs together until they retire, then we can unequivocally conclude that each individual has their own unique market value in the free-market and as such, asking the collective (especially more talented, more valuable employees) to use their leverage to coerce a company to increase your compensation package above your value for your benefit (of which you will of course not give a portion of that increase back to said collective for their work in getting you that increase - proving the disgusting hypocrisy of liberalisms "collective mindset" while hoarding the increase instead of splitting it with the collective) is nonsensical and disingenuous.

Lastly, because libertarians are very serious about their commitment to freedom and choice, they would be the last people on earth to tell you that unions should be "banned". They wouldn't care if you had union - they just wouldn't be a part of one. Literally every aspect of this question fails in a very major way. It is so disingenuous and it's the epitome of the entire ideology and the people who subscribe to it.

11 Questions You Should Ask Libertarians to See if They're Hypocrites

When's the last time Conservatives had a major policy victory?

When Ryan raised the debt ceiling several months ago and double crossed Cruz and friends ... lol

 

[Two Thumbs]

Republicans are more divided than ever before, the GOP is gasping for breath, and Liberalism sadly fell?



after they (Liberals) win the 2016 election remind them they hit bottom.

what liberal is running for Pres?

sorry, trick question, b/c no liberal is running.



aaand proof bomb.

Donald Trump is a Liberal running for POTUS.

so are you voitng for him?

knowing that there are no others?

I voted for him this am after my 2nd cup of coffee.

I voted for the bern.











just kidding, the idea that DC will fix itself by votes is idiotic to me and has been since W2 sent us our tax money back instead of paying down the debt.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

Damn, but this is priceless!

The title of the OP is "The sad fall of liberalism". Then the originator of the OP cites and article, "11 Questions You Should Ask Libertarians to See if They're Hypocrites".

Generally speaking, liberals and liberalism are political schools of thought left of center in the political spectrum. Whereas libertarianism and Libertarians are to the right of center in the political spectrum. So why is the Article cited and quoted about Libertarians, and the narrative of the OP about liberalism and interchanging the terms liberal and libertarian?

It must be obvious that the person starting this thread doesn't know the difference between a liberal and a libertarian. That would be like grouping Martian Luther King, John Kennedy and President Obama with Ayn Rand, Ludwig von Mises and Ann Coulter as partners in solidarity of political thought.

Bottom line is that the OP is an EPIC FAIL!

There is no "interchanging". The article name is irrelevant. The content and the fact that it was written by LIBERALS is what matters. Of course, we've already established your reading comprehension problem so none of us are surprised by the fact that your too lazy to read (and too stupid to understand) the article or my post.

Sure, sure what ever you say. < YAWN >

I should have realized you always cite the liberal alternet.org about Libertarians to make a comparative point about how hosed liberalism truly is! Sorry I interrupted... please continue to stomp on those evil liberal Libertarian commie bastards, or was it those evil liberal Liberalism commie bastards? Will you provide an instruction manual on how your post(s) should be read so we all can follow along? Sieg heil, bottoms up and Pip Pip!

BUT, I will have to admit that I MAY have misinterpreted your very, very poorly written intention of you first two posts of this thread. I'm acutely aware that you will use this admission as nothing more than a bludgeon. But I didn't want to associate myself within your cast of braggarts and liars. I'm capable of admitting error, but the same cannot be said for you, you puffed up peacock.

In any case, the OP remains an EPIC FAIL and the article title IS relevant, fool!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Of course, there are millions of instances that could be provided to show just how far liberalism has fallen in terms of being an ideology of substance, having some integrity, honesty, etc. As it has been examined over the decades and its policies have failed so profoundly, those that subscribe to it have been forced to stoop to lower and lower measures instead of just abandoning a failed ideology. Most notably: nonsensical and disingenuous positions.

I think this is one of the many instances that are a good example. While doing some research I came across a specific section of this article hit me like a bolt of lighting for being a prime example of the nonsensical and disingenuous positions of the modern-day liberal. The article instructs its readers on questions to pose to libertarians to "defeat" them. Here was the second question in the article:

Which gets us to our next test question: Is a libertarian willing to admit that production is the result of many forces, each of which should be recognized and rewarded?

Retail stores like Walmart and fast-food corporations like McDonalds cannot produce wealth without employees. Don’t those employees have the right to “coordinate their actions with those of others in order to achieve their purposes”—for example, in unions? You would think that free-market philosophers would encourage workers, as part of a free-market economy, to discover the market value for their services through negotiation.

Is our libertarian willing to acknowledge that workers who bargain for their services, individually and collectively, are also employing market forces?

Now...what is the problem with this? Well, for starters, libertarians are very open about the fact that the ideology revolves around the individual (and for the record here - I am not, nor have I ever been - a libertarian). So how is it a "gotcha" question to ask them if they support the collective??? But more importantly - how are employees banning together in the "collective" mindset to coerce a company into giving them what they want, "free-market"? It's not. At all. It's about the furthest thing from "free-market" that exists. If you were so good at your job, why would you need other people to step up and strike for you? If you were so good at your job, you could simply walk into your managers office and tell them what you want and tell them that if you didn't get it, you would leave. That is "free-market". The individual performing their talents and make a case for what their talents are worth. The last sentence in particular (highlighted in blue above) is the most absurd. Your value in the free market is completely and totally linked to you as an individual. If you decide to leave Walmart or McDonalds for a new job, does the new business accept all of your co-workers as part of the deal? Do they all come with you? Of course not.

As usual, the left - which has been annihilated on the battlefield of ideas - results to nonsensical and disingenuous positions to make a case which could not be made with a logical and rational position. They attempt to make the case that a single individuals "value" is actually the value of the collective and thus why any libertarian should logically support unions. Well, unless the collective accepts and leaves jobs together until they retire, then we can unequivocally conclude that each individual has their own unique market value in the free-market and as such, asking the collective (especially more talented, more valuable employees) to use their leverage to coerce a company to increase your compensation package above your value for your benefit (of which you will of course not give a portion of that increase back to said collective for their work in getting you that increase - proving the disgusting hypocrisy of liberalisms "collective mindset" while hoarding the increase instead of splitting it with the collective) is nonsensical and disingenuous.

Lastly, because libertarians are very serious about their commitment to freedom and choice, they would be the last people on earth to tell you that unions should be "banned". They wouldn't care if you had union - they just wouldn't be a part of one. Literally every aspect of this question fails in a very major way. It is so disingenuous and it's the epitome of the entire ideology and the people who subscribe to it.

11 Questions You Should Ask Libertarians to See if They're Hypocrites

When's the last time Conservatives had a major policy victory?

The answer? There haven't been any lately. Conservative social issues for example have been devastated by progress.

 

[couch protester]

after they (Liberals) win the 2016 election remind them they hit bottom.

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http://static.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/national-debt-clock.jpg

 

[P@triot]

Republicans are more divided than ever before, the GOP is gasping for breath, and Liberalism sadly fell?

after they (Liberals) win the 2016 election remind them they hit bottom.

It's your interpretation of the world "fell" that is the problem. You're interpreting it to mean that it's over. I never said that. My point was the lows that they have to resort to because they cannot stand their ground defending their ideology with facts and reality. They have to twist everything (like claiming a libertarian isn't really a libertarian if they don't join a union). I mean, that is a special kind of absurdity.

 

[P@triot]

Of course, there are millions of instances that could be provided to show just how far liberalism has fallen in terms of being an ideology of substance, having some integrity, honesty, etc. As it has been examined over the decades and its policies have failed so profoundly, those that subscribe to it have been forced to stoop to lower and lower measures instead of just abandoning a failed ideology. Most notably: nonsensical and disingenuous positions.

I think this is one of the many instances that are a good example. While doing some research I came across a specific section of this article hit me like a bolt of lighting for being a prime example of the nonsensical and disingenuous positions of the modern-day liberal. The article instructs its readers on questions to pose to libertarians to "defeat" them. Here was the second question in the article:

Which gets us to our next test question: Is a libertarian willing to admit that production is the result of many forces, each of which should be recognized and rewarded?

Retail stores like Walmart and fast-food corporations like McDonalds cannot produce wealth without employees. Don’t those employees have the right to “coordinate their actions with those of others in order to achieve their purposes”—for example, in unions? You would think that free-market philosophers would encourage workers, as part of a free-market economy, to discover the market value for their services through negotiation.

Is our libertarian willing to acknowledge that workers who bargain for their services, individually and collectively, are also employing market forces?

Now...what is the problem with this? Well, for starters, libertarians are very open about the fact that the ideology revolves around the individual (and for the record here - I am not, nor have I ever been - a libertarian). So how is it a "gotcha" question to ask them if they support the collective??? But more importantly - how are employees banning together in the "collective" mindset to coerce a company into giving them what they want, "free-market"? It's not. At all. It's about the furthest thing from "free-market" that exists. If you were so good at your job, why would you need other people to step up and strike for you? If you were so good at your job, you could simply walk into your managers office and tell them what you want and tell them that if you didn't get it, you would leave. That is "free-market". The individual performing their talents and make a case for what their talents are worth. The last sentence in particular (highlighted in blue above) is the most absurd. Your value in the free market is completely and totally linked to you as an individual. If you decide to leave Walmart or McDonalds for a new job, does the new business accept all of your co-workers as part of the deal? Do they all come with you? Of course not.

As usual, the left - which has been annihilated on the battlefield of ideas - results to nonsensical and disingenuous positions to make a case which could not be made with a logical and rational position. They attempt to make the case that a single individuals "value" is actually the value of the collective and thus why any libertarian should logically support unions. Well, unless the collective accepts and leaves jobs together until they retire, then we can unequivocally conclude that each individual has their own unique market value in the free-market and as such, asking the collective (especially more talented, more valuable employees) to use their leverage to coerce a company to increase your compensation package above your value for your benefit (of which you will of course not give a portion of that increase back to said collective for their work in getting you that increase - proving the disgusting hypocrisy of liberalisms "collective mindset" while hoarding the increase instead of splitting it with the collective) is nonsensical and disingenuous.

Lastly, because libertarians are very serious about their commitment to freedom and choice, they would be the last people on earth to tell you that unions should be "banned". They wouldn't care if you had union - they just wouldn't be a part of one. Literally every aspect of this question fails in a very major way. It is so disingenuous and it's the epitome of the entire ideology and the people who subscribe to it.

11 Questions You Should Ask Libertarians to See if They're Hypocrites

When's the last time Conservatives had a major policy victory?

I love that question. Whatever I say (and I could crash the server with answers) you will proclaim as "not major". Because you've set yourself up as the ultimate arbiter of "major" in the question. Let me know when you'd like to get serious and I'll make your eyes fall out reading about conservative policy being implemented and successful.

 

[Siete]

a total of every deficit left by every president, Liberals and Republicans ...

 

[P@triot]

This perfectly summarizes everything wrong with liberalism in America today.

“And the young people don’t believe in nothing but try to take, and that’s it,” he told WMCA-TV. “See, God didn’t put us here to take from one another. See, I ain’t gonna take nothing from you because it don’t belong to me.”

Sadly, liberals weren't raised properly and most of them denounce God. They have no moral compass and believe it is ok to take from people.

Gun-Wielding Man Tries Robbing Store in Broad Daylight, Gets Shot by Employee. Reactions From Fed-Up Residents Are Far From Sympathetic.

 

[P@triot]

This is priceless. Watch her face closely. She simply cannot believe that she's not entitled to someone else's money. Also - think of her astounding "logic". Her claim is that she has 5 babies so she cannot work, but her former friend only has two so she can work. Uh......what? If you can work while having one child you can work while having a dozen. Being responsible for a human life doesn't change based on volume.

This is how far liberalism has fallen. They have become so unhinged and radicalized that they can't even comprehend why they don't have a right to steal and why they can't restore slavery in America - forcing someone else to labor for their benefit.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Its not sad, its inevitable.

 

[P@triot]

 

[P@triot]

Prime example of how far the ideology of liberalism has fallen. Not even the slightest shred of logic left...

 

[P@triot]

 

[P@triot]

 

[P@triot]

 

[Old Rocks]

Of course, there are millions of instances that could be provided to show just how far liberalism has fallen in terms of being an ideology of substance, having some integrity, honesty, etc. As it has been examined over the decades and its policies have failed so profoundly, those that subscribe to it have been forced to stoop to lower and lower measures instead of just abandoning a failed ideology. Most notably: nonsensical and disingenuous positions.

I think this is one of the many instances that are a good example. While doing some research I came across a specific section of this article hit me like a bolt of lighting for being a prime example of the nonsensical and disingenuous positions of the modern-day liberal. The article instructs its readers on questions to pose to libertarians to "defeat" them. Here was the second question in the article:

Which gets us to our next test question: Is a libertarian willing to admit that production is the result of many forces, each of which should be recognized and rewarded?

Retail stores like Walmart and fast-food corporations like McDonalds cannot produce wealth without employees. Don’t those employees have the right to “coordinate their actions with those of others in order to achieve their purposes”—for example, in unions? You would think that free-market philosophers would encourage workers, as part of a free-market economy, to discover the market value for their services through negotiation.

Is our libertarian willing to acknowledge that workers who bargain for their services, individually and collectively, are also employing market forces?

Now...what is the problem with this? Well, for starters, libertarians are very open about the fact that the ideology revolves around the individual (and for the record here - I am not, nor have I ever been - a libertarian). So how is it a "gotcha" question to ask them if they support the collective??? But more importantly - how are employees banning together in the "collective" mindset to coerce a company into giving them what they want, "free-market"? It's not. At all. It's about the furthest thing from "free-market" that exists. If you were so good at your job, why would you need other people to step up and strike for you? If you were so good at your job, you could simply walk into your managers office and tell them what you want and tell them that if you didn't get it, you would leave. That is "free-market". The individual performing their talents and make a case for what their talents are worth. The last sentence in particular (highlighted in blue above) is the most absurd. Your value in the free market is completely and totally linked to you as an individual. If you decide to leave Walmart or McDonalds for a new job, does the new business accept all of your co-workers as part of the deal? Do they all come with you? Of course not.

As usual, the left - which has been annihilated on the battlefield of ideas - results to nonsensical and disingenuous positions to make a case which could not be made with a logical and rational position. They attempt to make the case that a single individuals "value" is actually the value of the collective and thus why any libertarian should logically support unions. Well, unless the collective accepts and leaves jobs together until they retire, then we can unequivocally conclude that each individual has their own unique market value in the free-market and as such, asking the collective (especially more talented, more valuable employees) to use their leverage to coerce a company to increase your compensation package above your value for your benefit (of which you will of course not give a portion of that increase back to said collective for their work in getting you that increase - proving the disgusting hypocrisy of liberalisms "collective mindset" while hoarding the increase instead of splitting it with the collective) is nonsensical and disingenuous.

Lastly, because libertarians are very serious about their commitment to freedom and choice, they would be the last people on earth to tell you that unions should be "banned". They wouldn't care if you had union - they just wouldn't be a part of one. Literally every aspect of this question fails in a very major way. It is so disingenuous and it's the epitome of the entire ideology and the people who subscribe to it.

11 Questions You Should Ask Libertarians to See if They're Hypocrites

LOL. November, dumbo, November.