The problem with education

[Unkotare]

Naperville Illinos students regularly score in the top1% in the world for math and science. Yet they spend no more on education than neighboring school districts. The only thing they do differently is they make all of the students exercise. Exercising increases the ability to learn....,time to bring back mandatory PE classes for all students.

Great post. It also teaches children to work with others well, and participate in a team-like environment. PE def. serves it place in school, it's a shame that many schools are doing away with it.

edit: I started coaching high school hockey a few years ago, just for fun. And I was blown away at the "me, me, me" involved with most of the players. It's as if they didn't understand how to be apart of a team, and work towards a common goal for their organization. Almost all of them were like that (not all).

Not to mention every kid's parents were complaining to me about having their kids be on the 1st line. Because their child was special. And forget about the kids who didn't make the team...their parents were the worst. I had one kid who didn't make the team his freshman year (I don't play favorites-the best players make the team), and he didn't complain, told me he was going to work really hard to make the team the next year. I told him I'd give him private lessons for free-and he did. He was so dedicated and worked so hard that the next year he didn't only make the team-he was one of the best players. The other kids who were cut never showed up the next year for tryouts-not sure if they quit or not, couldn't tell you. But I'm sure it was "my fault" either way. haha

Hockey parents are a special kind of nuts.

 

[FurthurBB]

Naperville Illinos students regularly score in the top1% in the world for math and science. Yet they spend no more on education than neighboring school districts. The only thing they do differently is they make all of the students exercise. Exercising increases the ability to learn....,time to bring back mandatory PE classes for all students.

In the world? I would like to see these statistics because I do not believe it is in the world. Also, my children's school is in the top 2% in the nation, and there is no increased exercise. Though, they also do not spend a lot of money. It is in an affluent neighborhood and only gets special things, like smart boards or fancy electronics, if the parents association pays for it. They are the only school in my state to have only teachers with advanced degrees in middle school and high school, they have 11 students per teacher, and buy new books every year. Seems anecdotal evidence is not going to work for this problem.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I cannot see where the national reading lists we already have make that much difference. Parents should definitely require more reading from children, but not all children can learn from reading alone. I know three accountants and two engineers that have a lot of problems with reading. My son, who is studying to be an engineer was taking calculus in middle school and had to go to special classes for reading.

What national reading list do we already have? I have looked around the net and seen lots of different lists. Most don't have any explanation for how books are selected.

psik

 

[Zander]

Naperville Illinos students regularly score in the top1% in the world for math and science. Yet they spend no more on education than neighboring school districts. The only thing they do differently is they make all of the students exercise. Exercising increases the ability to learn....,time to bring back mandatory PE classes for all students.

In the world? I would like to see these statistics because I do not believe it is in the world. Also, my children's school is in the top 2% in the nation, and there is no increased exercise. Though, they also do not spend a lot of money. It is in an affluent neighborhood and only gets special things, like smart boards or fancy electronics, if the parents association pays for it. They are the only school in my state to have only teachers with advanced degrees in middle school and high school, they have 11 students per teacher, and buy new books every year. Seems anecdotal evidence is not going to work for this problem.

The 8th grade 1999 Naperville students finished 6th in the WORLD for math and number 1 for science in the TIMSS (trends in international math and science study). there were 230,000 students from around the world that participated. It is well documented that EXERCISE dramatically improves the ability to learn.


EDIT- here is the link...http://skyatthey.com/about-4/research

 

[Unkotare]

You forgot the link.

 

[Zander]

Here is the link

Research « SKY Academy: SKY at the Y

 

[rdean]

For the right wing, the problem with education is "education". Learning "stuff" is bad. You could possibly end up "over-educated".

 

[lizzie]

For the right wing, the problem with education is "education". Learning "stuff" is bad. You could possibly end up "over-educated".

Not at all. The problem with education is that we are failing to educate our children. A significant number of them graduate high school incapable of using the English language well, or punctuate and use grammar for effective communication. Almost every college kid I know nowadays has to take "remedial" math before they can even take college algebra. It's not like college algebra is different from high school algebra- they just aren't learning it.

 

[Zander]

For the right wing, the problem with education is "education". Learning "stuff" is bad. You could possibly end up "over-educated".

You are a sad, pathetic, little man.

 

[jillian]

I had a lengthy debate with a Pub school teacher on another board. Mostly about standards and testing. He couldn't understand why EVERYONE is up in his face about his job and his profession. He had a point. Considering that he gets pummeled by not only parents, but admins, principles, local boards, and the students themselves. And to add insult -- EVERYONE gets to blast him in the political arena..

Well -- it's because he's a PUBLIC school teacher. Not a private school teacher. That's the unfortunate side effect (largely) of being a publically paid civil servant. Everyone IS in your business.

Private schools are not constantly nagged about standards and testing because they by and large HAVE TO MEET by CONTRACT the expectations of the parents. Public schools have no such accountibility. Parents trapped in a failing PUBLIC school have little recourse.

We DO need to perform a triage and take some load off the Pub School teachers. They are battling against problems that they don't want and that they shouldn't be fighting in the 1st place. The pub school problem today -- needs an integrated multi-disciplinary approach to make a big diff in "failing schools". For "bad" schools -- it's a community problem, not an education problem largely. We shouldn't be attacking it from an education standpoint in the first place..

the difference between a private school teacher and a public school teacher lies in the obligation to educate ALL kids. public schools don't get to pick and choose... private schools do. behavior problem? private school doesn't have to take them. uneducable? private school doesn't have to take them. public school? has to take every last one...

and then teachers get abused by people who don't think they should be paid for busing their butts.

 

[lizzie]

the difference between a private school teacher and a public school teacher lies in the obligation to educate ALL kids. public schools don't get to pick and choose... private schools do. behavior problem? private school doesn't have to take them. uneducable? private school doesn't have to take them. public school? has to take every last one...

and then teachers get abused by people who don't think they should be paid for busing their butts.

What accounts for the fact that the public schools were doing a good job of educating us 50 years ago, but not now? It can't be strictly a matter of private schools picking and choosing. I'm not certain that just because someone is in private school they are automatically easier to educate. Just because Mom and Dad can afford private school doesn't mean that the child is any more teachable, and in fact may be an insufferable little jerk.

 

[hortysir]

How ironic is the Spanish?????

 

[jillian]

the difference between a private school teacher and a public school teacher lies in the obligation to educate ALL kids. public schools don't get to pick and choose... private schools do. behavior problem? private school doesn't have to take them. uneducable? private school doesn't have to take them. public school? has to take every last one...

and then teachers get abused by people who don't think they should be paid for busing their butts.

What accounts for the fact that the public schools were doing a good job of educating us 50 years ago, but not now? It can't be strictly a matter of private schools picking and choosing. I'm not certain that just because someone is in private school they are automatically easier to educate. Just because Mom and Dad can afford private school doesn't mean that the child is any more teachable, and in fact may be an insufferable little jerk.

i think you're missing the point in that private schools can turn down any kid who is a problem student... even if mommy and daddy have money.

and yes, if they're in private school, they're easier to educate because the private school doesn't have to take kids who ARE difficult.

 

[jillian]

Naperville Illinos students regularly score in the top1% in the world for math and science. Yet they spend no more on education than neighboring school districts. The only thing they do differently is they make all of the students exercise. Exercising increases the ability to learn....,time to bring back mandatory PE classes for all students.

In the world? I would like to see these statistics because I do not believe it is in the world. Also, my children's school is in the top 2% in the nation, and there is no increased exercise. Though, they also do not spend a lot of money. It is in an affluent neighborhood and only gets special things, like smart boards or fancy electronics, if the parents association pays for it. They are the only school in my state to have only teachers with advanced degrees in middle school and high school, they have 11 students per teacher, and buy new books every year. Seems anecdotal evidence is not going to work for this problem.

The 8th grade 1999 Naperville students finished 6th in the WORLD for math and number 1 for science in the TIMSS (trends in international math and science study). there were 230,000 students from around the world that participated. It is well documented that EXERCISE dramatically improves the ability to learn.


EDIT- here is the link...Research « SKY Academy: SKY at the Y

that's interesting. and i can't say it surprises me.

but i'd also ask what the economic range of the students at that school was. i'm pretty sure that the higher the poverty level, the lower the test scores since poverty and education are a difficult mix.

it may well be that the discipline from exercise carries over into other aress... which also doesn't surprise me.

when my son was in kindergarten, he had all 27 kids in his class crawling around on hands and knees pretending they were cats.

when we got to school to pick him up, the teacher was about ready to have a nervous breakdown because her entire class was meowing... she said "please take home the kitty cat". lol..

we decided tai kwan do would be a good idea at that point.

and it was. doing marshal arts focused him, burned excess energy and disciplined him.

 

[lizzie]

i think you're missing the point in that private schools can turn down any kid who is a problem student... even if mommy and daddy have money.

and yes, if they're in private school, they're easier to educate because the private school doesn't have to take kids who ARE difficult.

They can turn them down, but do they? I can't say I've ever heard of a child being refused a private school education.

 

[hortysir]

i think you're missing the point in that private schools can turn down any kid who is a problem student... even if mommy and daddy have money.

and yes, if they're in private school, they're easier to educate because the private school doesn't have to take kids who ARE difficult.

They can turn them down, but do they? I can't say I've ever heard of a child being refused a private school education.

You've never met TDM?

 

[hortysir]

*edit* or Rdean?

 

[lizzie]

i think you're missing the point in that private schools can turn down any kid who is a problem student... even if mommy and daddy have money.

and yes, if they're in private school, they're easier to educate because the private school doesn't have to take kids who ARE difficult.

They can turn them down, but do they? I can't say I've ever heard of a child being refused a private school education.

You've never met TDM?

I guess not. I have no idea who it is.

 

[Zander]

In the world? I would like to see these statistics because I do not believe it is in the world. Also, my children's school is in the top 2% in the nation, and there is no increased exercise. Though, they also do not spend a lot of money. It is in an affluent neighborhood and only gets special things, like smart boards or fancy electronics, if the parents association pays for it. They are the only school in my state to have only teachers with advanced degrees in middle school and high school, they have 11 students per teacher, and buy new books every year. Seems anecdotal evidence is not going to work for this problem.

The 8th grade 1999 Naperville students finished 6th in the WORLD for math and number 1 for science in the TIMSS (trends in international math and science study). there were 230,000 students from around the world that participated. It is well documented that EXERCISE dramatically improves the ability to learn.


EDIT- here is the link...Research « SKY Academy: SKY at the Y

that's interesting. and i can't say it surprises me.

but i'd also ask what the economic range of the students at that school was. i'm pretty sure that the higher the poverty level, the lower the test scores since poverty and education are a difficult mix.

it may well be that the discipline from exercise carries over into other aress... which also doesn't surprise me.

when my son was in kindergarten, he had all 27 kids in his class crawling around on hands and knees pretending they were cats.

when we got to school to pick him up, the teacher was about ready to have a nervous breakdown because her entire class was meowing... she said "please take home the kitty cat". lol..

we decided tai kwan do would be a good idea at that point.

and it was. doing marshal arts focused him, burned excess energy and disciplined him.

Naperville is a fairly affluent community (here is a LINK to the community demographics) . But the research shows that even in poor districts, introducing regular, mandatory exercise into the curriculum improves student behavior, fitness, and test scores.

Urbana-Champaign, Illinois
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign psychophysiologist, Charles Hillman, measured students’ attention, working memory and processing speed and found that EEGs showed more activity in the brains of fit children. On cognitive tests, fit students had better attention and higher test scores than those less fit.

Kansas City, Missouri
After expanding physical activity from one class a week to forty-five minutes every day, in only one year an inner-city elementary school in Kansas City reduced its discipline problems and incidences of violence as much as 250%.

Titusville, Pennsylvania
This small, low income town installed fitness centers in their secondary schools and added ten minutes to their school day, but shaved 10% off academic class time. Since the program started in 2000, the district’s standardized test scores rose from “below the state average to 17% above it in reading and 18% above in math.” They are closing the achievement gap. And, among the 550 junior high students, there has not been one incident of fighting reported.

 

[rdean]

For the right wing, the problem with education is "education". Learning "stuff" is bad. You could possibly end up "over-educated".

Not at all. The problem with education is that we are failing to educate our children. A significant number of them graduate high school incapable of using the English language well, or punctuate and use grammar for effective communication. Almost every college kid I know nowadays has to take "remedial" math before they can even take college algebra. It's not like college algebra is different from high school algebra- they just aren't learning it.

I love it when people who teach their children that science is a faith, evolution a lie and climate change a conspiracy insist their children aren't being taught "right".

So what do they do? They rewrite history books. Teach mysticism as an alternative to science. What's really hilarious are these right winger universities who teach "natural science" instead of "science".
So what the fuck is "natural science"? Oh, stuff like "bees pollinate flowers" and "germs are small". We just have a different view of what is "education". In my world, Bible Study isn't education, it's propaganda.