Can Trump Shutter the Department of Education?

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yeah, those departments will lose some revenue, but far more clerical overhead caused by paperwork to comply with federal dictates.
A simple example is the Junior High School I went to in Los Angeles.

Mid-sixties: Principal, two vice principals, school nurse and secretary.
Now: Principal, two vice principals, six counselors, five attendance staff, nurse, one secretary for each principal and vice principals, ten full time cooks/cafeteria servers, two “resource officers” from LAPD, two full time librarians. All making top dollar with excel any benefit packages and retirements.
Most of those jobs are due to federal requirements.

Total and complete bullshit. You should be ashamed of yourself. There are no federal requirements for personnel in schools.

 

[JohnDB]

 

[80zephyr]

You have no personal experience in our educational system today. How the f- do you know?

Because your experiences are anecdotal and do not reflect articles and statistics on our failing educational system.

 

[80zephyr]

Actually they do but not directly. State DOEs rely heavily on research done by or funded by the federal DOE.

Also grants to teachers and schools are a significant part of the federal DOE budget. Civil Rights suits that would be directed at schools are now handled by the DOE. Without the DOE, these functions and many more would fall on the state DOEs and the schools. . For all the DOE does, it is the smallest department in the executive branch with only .15% of federal workforce.

Lets not take the money from the states to begin with. Why let Washington take their percentage? Then the states can fend for themselves.

 

[80zephyr]

And where did the president get the authority to nullify federal legislation?

The executive has the power over these organizations like USAID. That Congress passed a law stating differently does not make it constitutional. Unconstitutional legislation is illegal.

 

[Care4all]

The executive has the power over these organizations like USAID. That Congress passed a law stating differently does not make it constitutional. Unconstitutional legislation is illegal.

But the judges are who confirms constitutionality and legality in our system of justice, not the person or entity simply claiming it.....

It falls short of the famous term, "No man can be a judge in his own cause."

 

[80zephyr]

But the judges are who confirms constitutionality and legality in our system of justice, not the person or entity simply claiming it.....

It falls short of the famous term, "No man can be a judge in his own cause."

The Constitution is crystal clear on this subject. Congress never had the right to get involved.

 

[Care4all]

The Constitution is crystal clear on this subject. Congress never had the right to get involved.

One involved party is not the judge that determines such, which is IN THE CONSTITUTION.... due process to those harmed or differing, and for the courts to make a determination based on the constitutional basis and arguments made.

AGAIN, No man can be a judge in his own case! It is for a third party, the judicial branch, who makes the final decision, based in/on our Constitution.

 

[80zephyr]

One involved party is not the judge that determines such, which is IN THE CONSTITUTION.... due process to those harmed or differing, and for the courts to make a determination based on the constitutional basis and arguments made.

AGAIN, No man can be a judge in his own case! It is for a third party, the judicial branch, that makes the final decision, based in/on our Constitution.

Not what the Constitution says. As Executive, the president has control over his departments, not what some judge says he has control over.

 

[progressive hunter]

 

[Rambunctious]

If the DOJ is abolished it will have little effect on most classrooms but not all. Rural areas will be hit the hardest. The states of Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakoda, Montana, Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina would be hit the hardest. These red states would lose18% to 24% of their educational dollars. In the county I live, federal education dollars are only about 6.5% of the budget. Obviously this is going to be a big problem for congress. No matter what formula they come up with there will be winners and losers and you can bet most of those losers are not going to be voting for dismantling the DOE and losing federal educational dollars.

Then, there's another problem in eliminating the DOE. Who is going to be monitoring states to see that federal dollars are spent in accordance with federal law.

I assume you mean the Dept. of Ed not the DOJ... every program intended for rural and urban classrooms can be moved to different agencies... like lunch for underprivileged children can be moved to HHS where it belongs....
The red states have been calling for this for decades... they want more control over the education and funding for their schools...
The Dept. Of Ed is a middleman only.... do you know what a middleman is?... well they take and take and deliver nothing....
There is no need for this federal agency....

 

[Winco]

The red states have been calling for this for decades... they want more control over the education

Then Arkansas and West Virginia can create their own test and try to compare it to the smart States.

That's part of the reason for the National Test, given to ALL, so these ignorant States can't claim success when in actuality they are giving a test of low intelligence.

Kind of like the dementia test trump took and trump called it an IQ test.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Total and complete bullshit. You should be ashamed of yourself. There are no federal requirements for personnel in schools.

you are right, just regulations that result in mountains of paperwork that require mass staffing increases.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Because your experiences are anecdotal and do not reflect articles and statistics on our failing educational system.

Your articles and statistics always talk about averages. That means California's sewage dump is averaged with schools where every kid goes to college and many on scholarships. Many years ago, the NAEP showed a significant drop in the average test scores. Guess where one of the high schools they used was located? Baltimore MD. That one school was so bad it dropped the nationwide average.

Let me ask you something, if I gave you a math test right now, and told you just to do your best, how well do you think you would do? Now, let's say I tell you that in two weeks, I am going to give you a test on math you should know from high school, and I'll give you $5 for every one of the 100 questions you get correct, would you study up, or just take your chances.

When I was teaching, grades were calculated of four quarters of work averaged with a final exam, meaning the final was worth 20% of the grade. I made the final out of tests from all 4 grading periods during the year, so I knew they should know the material. I probably had a passing rate of about 20%. Why, you ask? The kids knew they had already passed, and the final would likely only mean a letter grade difference in their grade for the year, so they didn't give a shit!

The same thing goes for tests like the ACT. All juniors were required to take the test at the end of the year, no matter what. the grades were used for school accountability, to see if our children learned anything. Because that was the only incentive, most students either "Christmas-treed" their answers or simply took a nap for that testing session. They had zero incentive to do well on any part of the test. Homeschoolers like to compare their kids to public school student's scores and claim their kids did better, when public school students are required, whether they are going to college or not. If a parent feels their homeschooler will do poorly or isn't going to college, they simply don't take the test.

The few homeschoolers that took the test were motivated to do well, while public school students rally didn't give a rat's ass. How do you think that impacted the comparison?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

you are right, just regulations that result in mountains of paperwork that require mass staffing increases.

Yes, and none like you posted.

I taught at the largest high school in NE Florida and one of the top 10 in the state. For 3250 students, we had a principal, two vice principals for two grades each, a total of 6 assistant principals, and one front office secretary, and one secretary for each AP, most of which were barely minimum wage jobs. I know because my daughter, (at the time aged 19) was my own secretary for a short period of time when we shifted them around when an AP retired. I was responsible for about 600 students personally.

We had two resource deputies provided by our county sheriff who was the police department for the whole county. No other school had two. We did not fund them.

Special ed had most of the requirements and they had one teacher dedicated as a department head to handle the 200-300 special education kids IEPs and 504 plans.

To give you another sense of scale, we had 48 school buses that offloaded at our school. We also had about a dozen or so that loaded at our school for transfer to the magnet and vocational schools located throughout our county.

What you don't want to believe is I know what I am talking about more than any other poster on this forum. I talked the talk and walked the walk!

 

[Winco]

Let me ask you something, if I gave you a math test right now, and told you just to do your best, how well do you think you would do?

Ok, give me that test.

Do it tory. Give us that test?

 

[Winco]

The same thing goes for tests like the ACT. All juniors were required to take the test at the end of the year, no matter what. the grades were used for school accountability, to see if our children learned anything.

Just in your State, not ALL states.....Correct?
The ACT is NOT the go to in all States.

Which State are you identifying?

 

[0311]

Trump to Sign Order to Eliminate Department of Education

The president had promised on the campaign trail to get rid of the agency and place education back with states.

www.theepochtimes.com

Certainly, Congress budgets money for the Dept of Ed, but if the legitimate functions are simply picked up by other departments, can Congress intervene.

I call your attention to the following excerpt from the story:

"According to the fact sheet, the order also aims to ensure that, throughout the process, there is no disruption in the delivery of services, programs, and benefits that Americans rely on."

It is an absolute certainty that some "education" advocacy group will file suit in a Federal District in a Leftist part of the country, but how will it play out? It's basically a matter of "You made some money available to me, and I saw no need to spend it."?

The answer is NO! It was created by Congress and only Congress dismantle it.

 

[80zephyr]

Your articles and statistics always talk about averages. That means California's sewage dump is averaged with schools where every kid goes to college and many on scholarships. Many years ago, the NAEP showed a significant drop in the average test scores. Guess where one of the high schools they used was located? Baltimore MD. That one school was so bad it dropped the nationwide average.

Let me ask you something, if I gave you a math test right now, and told you just to do your best, how well do you think you would do? Now, let's say I tell you that in two weeks, I am going to give you a test on math you should know from high school, and I'll give you $5 for every one of the 100 questions you get correct, would you study up, or just take your chances.

When I was teaching, grades were calculated of four quarters of work averaged with a final exam, meaning the final was worth 20% of the grade. I made the final out of tests from all 4 grading periods during the year, so I knew they should know the material. I probably had a passing rate of about 20%. Why, you ask? The kids knew they had already passed, and the final would likely only mean a letter grade difference in their grade for the year, so they didn't give a shit!

The same thing goes for tests like the ACT. All juniors were required to take the test at the end of the year, no matter what. the grades were used for school accountability, to see if our children learned anything. Because that was the only incentive, most students either "Christmas-treed" their answers or simply took a nap for that testing session. They had zero incentive to do well on any part of the test. Homeschoolers like to compare their kids to public school student's scores and claim their kids did better, when public school students are required, whether they are going to college or not. If a parent feels their homeschooler will do poorly or isn't going to college, they simply don't take the test.

The few homeschoolers that took the test were motivated to do well, while public school students rally didn't give a rat's ass. How do you think that impacted the comparison?

I doubt that kids today are as smart as they were 20 years ago. BTW, since I have done architectural engineering, Iwould take that bet.

 

[Moonglow]

Trump to Sign Order to Eliminate Department of Education

The president had promised on the campaign trail to get rid of the agency and place education back with states.

www.theepochtimes.com

Certainly, Congress budgets money for the Dept of Ed, but if the legitimate functions are simply picked up by other departments, can Congress intervene.

I call your attention to the following excerpt from the story:

"According to the fact sheet, the order also aims to ensure that, throughout the process, there is no disruption in the delivery of services, programs, and benefits that Americans rely on."

It is an absolute certainty that some "education" advocacy group will file suit in a Federal District in a Leftist part of the country, but how will it play out? It's basically a matter of "You made some money available to me, and I saw no need to spend it."?

Trump can't destroy what Congress created.