I am OK with Patton. He was our best battle commander, or battlefield General for the task he was assigned. He had what it takes to command a shock force. Given unlimited reserves of men and tanks along with fuel, food and ammo, there was nothing that could stop him. He was perfectly willing to be "Blood and Guts" and absorb huge casualties to accomplish the missions he was tasked with. Not all Generals are willing to do that consistently and as the main component of their battlefield tactics.
The Politics of General Patton
- Thread starter PoliticalChic
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #102
This thread began with the erroneous "George Patton was pretty irrelevant politically."
General Patton Speaks With God Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Let's examine why Patton's politics ran counter to those of Franklin Roosevelt....
9. Patton did not hide his disregard for the Russians, shown even in unimportant comments, as those of April 25, of 1944, at the opening of a "Welcome Club" for American soldiers in Knutsford, England.
" General Patton was almost fired over the “Affair at Knutsford”.
Knutsford, England was a small town close Patton's headquarters. Patton has been asked to be a guest at the inauguration of a “Welcome Club” for American serviceman. After asking that no photographs be taken, and checking that there were no reporters, Patton made a few off-the-cuff remarks. This included a remark that America and Britain would rule the world. This was considered a slight to Russia, since Patton had failed to include Russia as a world ruler. It was this ‘slight’ that almost ruined Patton’s career. It was released to the world press. Patton was again in the news. All three governments were displeased with Patton. Patton's promotion to the permanent rank of general was placed on hold and Eisenhower sent Patton a blistering letter:
“I am thoroughly weary of your failure to control your tongue and have begun to doubt your all-round judgment, so essential in high military position.”
Patton wrote in his diary,“... this last incident was so trivial in its nature, but so terrible in its effects, but it is not the result of an accident...”
D-Day Three Unique Perspectives Where was General Patton on D-day
The comments did not escape the notice of Joseph Stalin.
He was enfuriated....and FDR couldn't have that!
10. Patton saw the inevitability of a conflict with the Russians.
"It is a conflict that Patton believes will be fought soon. The Russians are moving to forcibly spread communism throughout the world, and Patton knows it. "They are a scurvy race and simply savages," he writes of the Russians in his journal. "We could beat the hell out of them."
"Patton," By Martin Blumenson, Kevin M. Hymel, p. 84
Can you imagine the chagrin in the Soviet-occupied Roosevelt administration???
Had Patton been a subject of Stalin's...one can guess what would have become of him.
But Roosevelt's version of the Kremlin has it's hands tied, both because Patton was non replaceable on the battlefield, but because America was not Russia.
This explanation applies:
" The excesses of the European versions of fascism were mitigated by the specific history and culture of America, Jeffersonian individualism, heterogeneity of the population, ...."
Goldberg, "Liberal Fascism."
If you ask nicely, I may construct an OP on what could have happened otherwise.
"Soviet occupied Roosevelt administration"? -----oh yeah---
that was when "socialist" was in the mini minds of some
considered synonymous with SIBERIA. When I was a kid---in my Nazi hometown-----socialist was just as dirty a word
as was UNION and the dreaded "COMMUNIST"----always
associated with "Russia" aka USSR. "democrat" was even worse"
that was when "socialist" was in the mini minds of some
considered synonymous with SIBERIA. When I was a kid---in my Nazi hometown-----socialist was just as dirty a word
as was UNION and the dreaded "COMMUNIST"----always
associated with "Russia" aka USSR. "democrat" was even worse"
- Thread starter
- #104
"Soviet occupied Roosevelt administration"?"
Ya' mean you didn't know???
Don't you have a library card?
Get one, and pick up some books on the Venona cables, or any by Haynes and Klehr, or Diana West's "American Betrayal," or "Witness," by Whittaker Chambers, or "Blacklisted by History," by Evans, or "Treason," by Coulter, or
"The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB," by Andrews and Mitrokhin.....and when you finish those....I'll name a bunch more.
- Banned
- #106
He may well be, but that does not however belie the Fact that MANY of the New Dealers indeed were infatuated with Central Planning and greatly admired the USSR way of doing things.
- Thread starter
- #107
Eisenhower took his orders from, and could only reflect the view of the Russophile, Franklin Roosevelt, his boss.
Patton was not one to hide what he knew to be right...no matter who it irritated.
11. "[Patton] is still fuming over an order from Dwight Eisenhower in the waning days of the war that prevented the Third Army from advancing into Czechoslovakia to assist the people of Prague. Instead of allowing Americans to come to their aid, by halting Patton's tanks Eisenhower made it possible for the Russian army to enter Prague.
As in Berlin, the Russians did not come in peace, and were soon suppressing the locals in the same horrific manner.
Even weeks later, Patton still seethes about the absurdity of Eisenhower's order. He believes Ike to be a fool. Patton has been wary of Russian duplicity as far back as November 1943, when he noted in his diary that "It will be just as bad for us to have Russia win the war as it will be for Germany to do so. To be a success and maintain world peace, the U.S. and the U.S. alone should destroy Germany and Japan and be ready to stop Russia."
The Red Army is relentless in its quest to control as much of Europe as possible, with Stalin taking full advantage of Dwight Eisenhower's timidity. The Russians are seizing more land, and more people are coming under their occupation.
Patton is incensed. "You cannot lay down with a diseased jackal," he recently insisted to a group of journalists. "Neither can we ever do business with the Russians."
When Undersecretary of War Robert Patterson visited the Third Army, Patton openly lobbied for at least 30 percent of all American troops to remain in Europe, "Keeping our forces intact. Let's keep our boots polished, bayonets sharpened, and present a picture of force and strength to these people.
This is the only language they understand and respect. If you fail to do this, then I would like to say to you that we have had a victory over the Germans but have lost the war."
Even Patton's nemesis, British field marshal Montgomery, agrees: when accepting the surrender of German soldiers, he ordered his troops to stack the Wehrmacht rifles in such a way that they could easily be redistributed should the Germans and British need to defend themselves against a Russian advance.
Yet the Harvard-educated undersecretary Patterson thinks Patton is delusional. He advises Eisenhower, army chief of staff Gen. George C. Marshall, and President Harry Truman to continue to view the Russians benevolently.
In time, of course, Patton's predictions will come true, and the world will have to live with the consequences of American gullibility
"Killing Patton," O'Reilly and Dugard, p. 259-260
Of course, Marshall, Hopkins, et al openly wanted the Soviets to control Europe....and said so.
Worst American General of WWII
Certainly in the running. But this is the only general ever who's men demanded a Congressional inquiry for his incompetence.
Not true. By 1940 the Germans had upgraded to the 5cm PaK 38 and were upgrading their tanks as well.
smart guy----maybe he saw them in action first hand----I thought patton was in the EAST----I mean----like the Japanese arena
- Thread starter
- #111
Worst American General of WWII
Certainly in the running. But this is the only general ever who's men demanded a Congressional inquiry for his incompetence.
"Many refer to the West Point class of 1915 as "the class the stars fell on." Fifty-nine of its graduates achieved the rank of general. Among them were Eisenhower and Bradley, who both attained five-star rank, the highest rank in the U.S. Army.
At this point in history, only nine men had been selected for this honor, which also carries the title of general of the army.
Ulysses S. Grant, William Tecumseh Sherman, and Philip Sheridan all held this title, but in the Civil War era, when there was no rank higher than four stars. General John Pershing held the same title just after World War I. Those who wore five stars are army generals Dwight Eisenhower, Omar Bradley, Henry "Hap" Arnold, Douglas MacArthur, and George Marshall. The navy equivalent of five stars has been awarded to admirals Chester Nimitz, William Leahy, Ernest King, and William F. Halsey."
"Killing Patton:THE STRANGE DEATH OF WORLD WAR II S
MOST AUDACIOUS GENERAL," byBill O'Reilly and Martin Dugard, chapter seven
- Thread starter
- #112
Your posts tend to be like telegrams.....
Really, you are not charged by the word.
Who is the 'smart guy'??
In other words, he doesn't agree with you. LOL. Not agreeing with a moron makes one a moron? Yeah, no...
I think the best judge of generals is what the enemy thinks of them. Patton is the only Allied General who the Germans actually feared. They respected him so much that they gave him a German designation.
"Kampfgruppe Patton".
"Kampfgruppe Patton".
CrusaderFrank
Diamond Member
- May 20, 2009
- 162,065
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Irrelevant.
US Army Air power would have turned Soviet armor into target practice. They would have cried "unfair" all day and night, but they'd still be smoking heaps on the battlefield
- Thread starter
- #116
12. Imagine how different this world would be today, had the nation been allowed to follow the politics of George Patton, rather than Franklin Roosevelt.
Patton's politics were based on truth, and facts, and history has shown Patton to be correct.
Imagine a democratic Soviet Union, no Korean War, no Vietnam,a very different Democrat Party....
a. The cause of our lack of understanding about the sinister nature of the Soviet Union, ...genocide, oppression, slaughter....when it come to Soviet crime is the lies that Franklin Roosevelt told the public in support of Stalin.
Loy Henderson, State Department Russian expert said: "Russia does not fight for the same ideals as the United States."
Roosevelt swore to the American public the exact opposite: he declared that Stalin fought for the same ideals!
FDR was lying!
September 30, 1941, FDR claimed that there was freedom of religion in the USSR. "The claim that Stalin's Russia allowed religious freedom was the first step in a massive pro-Soviet campaign that the White House coordinated for the duration of the war."
"Caught between Roosevelt and Stalin: America's Ambassadors to Moscow," by Dennis J. Dunn, p. 137
Yet, hordes of self-proclaimed intellectuals practice what of what Aquinas called 'ignorantia affectata - a cultivated ignorance'.
For them...and there are several prime examples of this in this very thread, nothing could be worse than revealing the truth about FDR!
13. Until Hitler attacked Russia....the two were allies. There is no difference between Hitler and Stalin, except that Stalin was worse.
"According to Suvorov, Stalin planned to use Nazi Germany as a proxy (the “Icebreaker”) against the West. For this reason Stalin provided significant material and political support to Adolf Hitler, while at the same time preparing the Red Army to “liberate” the whole of Europe from Nazi occupation."
Viktor Suvorov - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
a. . "The Soviet NKVD trained the SS, taught them how to build concentration camps,as they had been operating for 20 years before the origin of the Nazis."
Viktor Suvorov, former Soviet Military Intelligence Officer.
14. World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.
More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
"The Secret Betrayal"by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
The Soviet Union killed more than twenty million men, women and children.
Yet, Roosevelt told the American people that Uncle Joe was a good ol' boy.
See the problem that Patton posed?
Patton's politics were based on truth, and facts, and history has shown Patton to be correct.
Imagine a democratic Soviet Union, no Korean War, no Vietnam,a very different Democrat Party....
a. The cause of our lack of understanding about the sinister nature of the Soviet Union, ...genocide, oppression, slaughter....when it come to Soviet crime is the lies that Franklin Roosevelt told the public in support of Stalin.
Loy Henderson, State Department Russian expert said: "Russia does not fight for the same ideals as the United States."
Roosevelt swore to the American public the exact opposite: he declared that Stalin fought for the same ideals!
FDR was lying!
September 30, 1941, FDR claimed that there was freedom of religion in the USSR. "The claim that Stalin's Russia allowed religious freedom was the first step in a massive pro-Soviet campaign that the White House coordinated for the duration of the war."
"Caught between Roosevelt and Stalin: America's Ambassadors to Moscow," by Dennis J. Dunn, p. 137
Yet, hordes of self-proclaimed intellectuals practice what of what Aquinas called 'ignorantia affectata - a cultivated ignorance'.
For them...and there are several prime examples of this in this very thread, nothing could be worse than revealing the truth about FDR!
13. Until Hitler attacked Russia....the two were allies. There is no difference between Hitler and Stalin, except that Stalin was worse.
"According to Suvorov, Stalin planned to use Nazi Germany as a proxy (the “Icebreaker”) against the West. For this reason Stalin provided significant material and political support to Adolf Hitler, while at the same time preparing the Red Army to “liberate” the whole of Europe from Nazi occupation."
Viktor Suvorov - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
a. . "The Soviet NKVD trained the SS, taught them how to build concentration camps,as they had been operating for 20 years before the origin of the Nazis."
Viktor Suvorov, former Soviet Military Intelligence Officer.
14. World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.
More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
"The Secret Betrayal"by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
The Soviet Union killed more than twenty million men, women and children.
Yet, Roosevelt told the American people that Uncle Joe was a good ol' boy.
See the problem that Patton posed?
- Thread starter
- #118
15. And, for speaking the truth......
"At the time of his death, Patton had been relegated to a desk job, overseeing the collection of Army records in Bavaria. That he had been an outspoken critic of Stalin and a vocal proponent of liberating Berlin and the German people from certain communist aggression triggered his sudden removal from the battlefield. In the aftermath of war, the Western powers sought to sideline the mercurial Patton and his incendiary views.
But Patton despised the politically driven circus and the media minions that carried out their dirty work. Still, he continued to speak out against the Russians as an American witness to their brutality during and after the war. As Stalin devoured Eastern Europe, Patton remarked,“I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them… …the Russian has no regard for human life and they are all out sons-of-bitches, barbarians, and chronic drunks.”
In early May 1945, as the Allies shut down the Nazi war machine, Patton stood with his massive 3rd Army on the outskirts of Prague in a potential face off with the Red Army. He pleaded for General Eisenhower’s green light to advance and capture the city for the Allies, which also would have meant containment of the Russians.
British Prime Minister Churchill also thought the move a crucial and beneficial one for post-war Europe and insisted upon it, but to no avail.
Eisenhower denied Patton’s request, and the Russians took the region, which would pay dearly for years to come. Earlier that year, at the February conference in Yalta, President Roosevelt, with Churchill at his side, extended the hand of friendship to “Uncle Joe” Stalin and signed his Faustian pact. In so doing, the destiny of millions was reduced to mass starvation, blood revenge, and distant gulags.
At the time, Patton understood the tragedy of this event and wrote, “We promised the Europeans freedom. It would be worse than dishonorable not to see that they have it. This might mean war with the Russians, but what of it?”
As with Prague, Patton’s request to secure Berlin was denied. Sadly, after Patton finally reached the ravaged city, he wrote his wife on July 21, 1945,” for the first week after they took it (Berlin), all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped. I could have taken it (instead of the Soviets) had I been allowed.”
In the end, yes Patton was a genius commander such as are many today within the purged ranks of military leadership but never forget, Roosevelt was ultimately the string puller and hence, Russia got its way and the libtards destroyed the face of the planet for the next 50 years until the dissolution of the Soviet machine."
The Foresight of Patton FrontPage Magazine
a. "Hell, why do we care what those goddamn Russians think? We are going to have to fight them sooner or later, within the next generation. Why not do it now while our Army is intact and the damn Russians can have their hind end kicked back to Russia in three months? We can do it easily with the help of the German troops we have, if we just arm them and take them with us. They hate the bastards.[92]
These actions were all Eisenhower could handle; he could not cover this one up and had no choice but to relieve Patton of his command. Patton was personally hurt by the loss."
Military History Online
Patton was correct.
Roosevelt not.
As the old saying goes, the only place to find 'justice' is the dictionary, or the cemetery.
"At the time of his death, Patton had been relegated to a desk job, overseeing the collection of Army records in Bavaria. That he had been an outspoken critic of Stalin and a vocal proponent of liberating Berlin and the German people from certain communist aggression triggered his sudden removal from the battlefield. In the aftermath of war, the Western powers sought to sideline the mercurial Patton and his incendiary views.
But Patton despised the politically driven circus and the media minions that carried out their dirty work. Still, he continued to speak out against the Russians as an American witness to their brutality during and after the war. As Stalin devoured Eastern Europe, Patton remarked,“I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them… …the Russian has no regard for human life and they are all out sons-of-bitches, barbarians, and chronic drunks.”
In early May 1945, as the Allies shut down the Nazi war machine, Patton stood with his massive 3rd Army on the outskirts of Prague in a potential face off with the Red Army. He pleaded for General Eisenhower’s green light to advance and capture the city for the Allies, which also would have meant containment of the Russians.
British Prime Minister Churchill also thought the move a crucial and beneficial one for post-war Europe and insisted upon it, but to no avail.
Eisenhower denied Patton’s request, and the Russians took the region, which would pay dearly for years to come. Earlier that year, at the February conference in Yalta, President Roosevelt, with Churchill at his side, extended the hand of friendship to “Uncle Joe” Stalin and signed his Faustian pact. In so doing, the destiny of millions was reduced to mass starvation, blood revenge, and distant gulags.
At the time, Patton understood the tragedy of this event and wrote, “We promised the Europeans freedom. It would be worse than dishonorable not to see that they have it. This might mean war with the Russians, but what of it?”
As with Prague, Patton’s request to secure Berlin was denied. Sadly, after Patton finally reached the ravaged city, he wrote his wife on July 21, 1945,” for the first week after they took it (Berlin), all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped. I could have taken it (instead of the Soviets) had I been allowed.”
In the end, yes Patton was a genius commander such as are many today within the purged ranks of military leadership but never forget, Roosevelt was ultimately the string puller and hence, Russia got its way and the libtards destroyed the face of the planet for the next 50 years until the dissolution of the Soviet machine."
The Foresight of Patton FrontPage Magazine
a. "Hell, why do we care what those goddamn Russians think? We are going to have to fight them sooner or later, within the next generation. Why not do it now while our Army is intact and the damn Russians can have their hind end kicked back to Russia in three months? We can do it easily with the help of the German troops we have, if we just arm them and take them with us. They hate the bastards.[92]
These actions were all Eisenhower could handle; he could not cover this one up and had no choice but to relieve Patton of his command. Patton was personally hurt by the loss."
Military History Online
Patton was correct.
Roosevelt not.
As the old saying goes, the only place to find 'justice' is the dictionary, or the cemetery.
Discombobulated
Gold Member
Incorrect, the 5cm was barely entering service, most infantry units were still equipped with the 3.7cm at the time France fell.
Mr. H.
Diamond Member
Pardon for the trollish intrusion but perhaps this thread could accommodate some jocular brevity?
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