The Politics of General Patton

[NYcarbineer]

"Hell, why do we care what those goddamn Russians think? We are going to have to fight them sooner or later, within the next generation."

Patton was correct.
Roosevelt not.


.

Patton was wrong. We didn't fight them sooner or later. I'm not surprised you don't know that.

This thread was meant for adults, and particularly those adults with an education.

Do drop back when the discussion centers on crayon, fav cartoon, and Kim Kardashian.

What war did we fight with the Soviets between 1945 and the breakup of the USSR?

And don't say the Cold War.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You cannot be sane and believe that a ground war with the Soviets in 1945 was a good idea. But then again, the author of this thread...

 

[NYcarbineer]

"Hell, why do we care what those goddamn Russians think? We are going to have to fight them sooner or later, within the next generation."

Patton was correct.
Roosevelt not.


.

Patton was wrong. We didn't fight them sooner or later. I'm not surprised you don't know that.

This thread was meant for adults, and particularly those adults with an education.

Do drop back when the discussion centers on crayon, fav cartoon, and Kim Kardashian.

I should be proud of the fact that I've reduced you to those sorts of non-responses,

if not for it having been so easy.

 

[rightwinger]

Worst American General of WWII

For a commander who turned in some of the lightest casualties of WWII, his island hopping strategy around Jap strong points in the south pacific, I don't think so. Egotist yes, bad commander, no.

It was Nimitz who fought for the island hopping strategy. McArthur hamstrung him by demanding Army campaigns in New Guinea and the Philipines

 

[rightwinger]

Militarily, Patton was a genius
Politically, he was a moron

In other words, he doesn't agree with you. LOL. Not agreeing with a moron makes one a moron? Yeah, no...

Actually, Pattons poor understanding of the political aspects of his position are well documented and almost cost him his career. His inability to get along with his superiors and allies are well documented.

"... poor understanding of the political aspects..."

But absolutely correct about communism, huh?

Too bad FDR wasn't.

Correct?

History proved Patton wrong. The invasion that Patton advocated would have cost hundreds of thousands of US lives. As it was, the Soviet Union surrendered without a shot being fired 45 years later

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Hell, why do we care what those goddamn Russians think? We are going to have to fight them sooner or later, within the next generation."

Patton was correct.
Roosevelt not.


.

Patton was wrong. We didn't fight them sooner or later. I'm not surprised you don't know that.

This thread was meant for adults, and particularly those adults with an education.

Do drop back when the discussion centers on crayon, fav cartoon, and Kim Kardashian.

What war did we fight with the Soviets between 1945 and the breakup of the USSR?

And don't say the Cold War.

See....that's why I said this wasn't an appropriate thread for you...


I tried to save you from this embarrassment, but....heck, I guess you're used to it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Militarily, Patton was a genius
Politically, he was a moron

In other words, he doesn't agree with you. LOL. Not agreeing with a moron makes one a moron? Yeah, no...

Actually, Pattons poor understanding of the political aspects of his position are well documented and almost cost him his career. His inability to get along with his superiors and allies are well documented.

"... poor understanding of the political aspects..."

But absolutely correct about communism, huh?

Too bad FDR wasn't.

Correct?

History proved Patton wrong. The invasion that Patton advocated would have cost hundreds of thousands of US lives. As it was, the Soviet Union surrendered without a shot being fired 45 years later

Total nonsense.....exactly what one would expect from an apologist for FDR, Stalin and communism.


Carry on.

 

[kaz]

Militarily, Patton was a genius
Politically, he was a moron

In other words, he doesn't agree with you. LOL. Not agreeing with a moron makes one a moron? Yeah, no...

Actually, Pattons poor understanding of the political aspects of his position are well documented and almost cost him his career. His inability to get along with his superiors and allies are well documented.

OK, fair enough. I misunderstood your point. You're correct, he was not good at that.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Militarily, Patton was a genius
Politically, he was a moron

In other words, he doesn't agree with you. LOL. Not agreeing with a moron makes one a moron? Yeah, no...

Actually, Pattons poor understanding of the political aspects of his position are well documented and almost cost him his career. His inability to get along with his superiors and allies are well documented.

OK, fair enough. I misunderstood your point. You're correct, he was not good at that.

Mind a mild disagreement, here, kaz?

Two things to recognize about Patton:
1. He was born rich, and married an even richer woman, Beatrice.

2. The military for Patton was a calling, not a job....unlike Eisenhower: Patton came from a long line of warriors for America.


That plus, he was a superb military leader!

But he wasn't a 'yes man' as Eisenhower was, and he hated communists.
Every negative thing you hear/read about Patton stems from the fact that he had to function at a time when communists held sway.
The administration he worked under swooned for "Uncle Joe."



So it wasn't that he couldn't get along with other officers and politicians....he was in a position to speak the truth.

And I identify with that, too.
Bet you do, too.

 

[NYcarbineer]

"Hell, why do we care what those goddamn Russians think? We are going to have to fight them sooner or later, within the next generation."

Patton was correct.
Roosevelt not.


.

Patton was wrong. We didn't fight them sooner or later. I'm not surprised you don't know that.

This thread was meant for adults, and particularly those adults with an education.

Do drop back when the discussion centers on crayon, fav cartoon, and Kim Kardashian.

What war did we fight with the Soviets between 1945 and the breakup of the USSR?

And don't say the Cold War.

See....that's why I said this wasn't an appropriate thread for you...


I tried to save you from this embarrassment, but....heck, I guess you're used to it.

You claimed that Patton was right in saying that sooner or later we would go to war with the Soviet Union.

We never did. Therefore Patton was wrong,

and you were either ignorant or lying to try to claim that Patton was right.

 

[kaz]

Militarily, Patton was a genius
Politically, he was a moron

In other words, he doesn't agree with you. LOL. Not agreeing with a moron makes one a moron? Yeah, no...

Actually, Pattons poor understanding of the political aspects of his position are well documented and almost cost him his career. His inability to get along with his superiors and allies are well documented.

OK, fair enough. I misunderstood your point. You're correct, he was not good at that.

Mind a mild disagreement, here, kaz?

Two things to recognize about Patton:
1. He was born rich, and married an even richer woman, Beatrice.

2. The military for Patton was a calling, not a job....unlike Eisenhower: Patton came from a long line of warriors for America.


That plus, he was a superb military leader!

But he wasn't a 'yes man' as Eisenhower was, and he hated communists.
Every negative thing you hear/read about Patton stems from the fact that he had to function at a time when communists held sway.
The administration he worked under swooned for "Uncle Joe."



So it wasn't that he couldn't get along with other officers and politicians....he was in a position to speak the truth.

And I identify with that, too.
Bet you do, too.

On the communists, he was absolutely right. At a minimum, we should have driven them back into Russia. Not the soviet union, Russia. Their power would have been greatly reduced. The people would have helped us greatly as well fight the Soviets. The Ukrainians started fighting for the Nazis when they invaded and switched back when they realized the Nazis were worse.

I was only agreeing with RW on the more narrow point that Patten didn't play the political game though internally. Whether that was right or wrong, intentional or not, it clearly impeded his career and effectiveness in getting buy in behind his views.

And yes, I do get it. In business it's the same. You don't have to succumb to politics to be effective, but you do have to realize the importance of recognizing and dealing with them if you want to be effective. It just is in organizations.

 

[rightwinger]

Militarily, Patton was a genius
Politically, he was a moron

In other words, he doesn't agree with you. LOL. Not agreeing with a moron makes one a moron? Yeah, no...

Actually, Pattons poor understanding of the political aspects of his position are well documented and almost cost him his career. His inability to get along with his superiors and allies are well documented.

"... poor understanding of the political aspects..."

But absolutely correct about communism, huh?

Too bad FDR wasn't.

Correct?

History proved Patton wrong. The invasion that Patton advocated would have cost hundreds of thousands of US lives. As it was, the Soviet Union surrendered without a shot being fired 45 years later

Total nonsense.....exactly what one would expect from an apologist for FDR, Stalin and communism.


Carry on.

Nonsense?

You mean the Soviet Union did not collapse on its own?
How many deaths would Pattons Soviet invasion have cause us? Hundreds of thousand? Million?

 

[PoliticalChic]

In other words, he doesn't agree with you. LOL. Not agreeing with a moron makes one a moron? Yeah, no...

Actually, Pattons poor understanding of the political aspects of his position are well documented and almost cost him his career. His inability to get along with his superiors and allies are well documented.

"... poor understanding of the political aspects..."

But absolutely correct about communism, huh?

Too bad FDR wasn't.

Correct?

History proved Patton wrong. The invasion that Patton advocated would have cost hundreds of thousands of US lives. As it was, the Soviet Union surrendered without a shot being fired 45 years later

Total nonsense.....exactly what one would expect from an apologist for FDR, Stalin and communism.


Carry on.

Nonsense?

You mean the Soviet Union did not collapse on its own?
How many deaths would Pattons Soviet invasion have cause us? Hundreds of thousand? Million?

So....you are going to pretend that you don't know that the power behind every communist movement has been the Soviets?

Fine

Play dumb.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yep, there was a lot of killing during WWII, but at the time most Americans seemed mostly concerned about the number of Americans being killed. Call us selfish if you will.

Patton posed no problem, Ike kept him pretty much under lock and key.

37MM AT gun?

Can you name one German tank that the 37MM could pen?

I can name several, in fact in 1940 that would be most German tanks. The Panzer 1, Panzer II, Panzer III, Czech Lt-35 and Lt-38, everything in the German arsenal at the time except the frontal armor of a Panzer Mk 4.

That's actually a good answer! And had we fought the Germans in 1940, that would have been effective.

Also, Rommel had suggested that instead of concentrating on building tanks, the Germans should have build more towed 8.8 to fight the Russians who had the habit of charging head long into kill zones

By the time we actually crossed swords with them in 1943 we needed the 76 to pen the Mark IV's and the 90mm to have a chance at a Tiger (in service since 1942). I always thought it was negligent that we sent the Shermans into combat knowing they were under-armored and outgunned. It was Patton and the armor commanders that made the difference

Fortunate that we didn't go to war with the Soviets as Patton suggested at the time.....the T-34 was superior to the Sherman and the IS-2 would have defeated the new Pershing tanks.

Irrelevant.

US Army Air power would have turned Soviet armor into target practice. They would have cried "unfair" all day and night, but they'd still be smoking heaps on the battlefield

What do you suppose the Soviet Air Force would be doing? They defeated the other half of the Luftwaffe.

We can debate back and forth, but the real issue was that FDR was a sock puppet for Stalin and allowed the enslavement of hundreds of millions of people to Soviet Communism.

 

[Camp]

5. "He did not have to view or consider the big picture and worry about the battles others would have to fight."
Not only are you an imbecile, but a disgusting boot-licker of tyrants and despots.

The battles that cost hundreds of thousands of US soldier's lives were due to FDR's pandering to Stalin.

The battle raging at the time Patton pleaded to continue the war in Europe and begin a war with Stalin had nothing to do with Stalin. It was being fought in the Pacific at a place called Okinawa, a Japanese owned and populated homeland island. The Pacific Theater needed to replace 10's of thousands of casualties lost at both Iwo , and now Okinawa. 50,000 men at Okinawa alone were casualties.
You can cut and paste all the McCarthy era nonsense propaganda you want, it does not distract from the facts of reality. The US military was fighting a war in the Pacific and it made casualty figures in Europe look small in comparison. In the Pacific every battle was like a D-Day battle. Patton's request and ideas to continue and actually begin a new war in Europe against the USSR was rejected because those with more knowledge than him, and those responsible for the lives of hundreds of thousands of American military lives NOT UNDER PATTON'S COMMAND used rational thinking to plan a strategy that would end the war against the Japanese in the Pacific Theater.
The strategy of supporting the USSR in their relentless war against the same enemies we were fighting is what saved hundreds of thousands of American and allied lives, probably even millions, in the war in Europe. The Russian troops we fed and supplied died in enormous numbers defeating the German's. Millions of Russians died and many millions more were wounded. Compared to the Russian casualties, the allied casualties were small.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yep, there was a lot of killing during WWII, but at the time most Americans seemed mostly concerned about the number of Americans being killed. Call us selfish if you will.

Patton posed no problem, Ike kept him pretty much under lock and key.

I can name several, in fact in 1940 that would be most German tanks. The Panzer 1, Panzer II, Panzer III, Czech Lt-35 and Lt-38, everything in the German arsenal at the time except the frontal armor of a Panzer Mk 4.

That's actually a good answer! And had we fought the Germans in 1940, that would have been effective.

Also, Rommel had suggested that instead of concentrating on building tanks, the Germans should have build more towed 8.8 to fight the Russians who had the habit of charging head long into kill zones

By the time we actually crossed swords with them in 1943 we needed the 76 to pen the Mark IV's and the 90mm to have a chance at a Tiger (in service since 1942). I always thought it was negligent that we sent the Shermans into combat knowing they were under-armored and outgunned. It was Patton and the armor commanders that made the difference

Fortunate that we didn't go to war with the Soviets as Patton suggested at the time.....the T-34 was superior to the Sherman and the IS-2 would have defeated the new Pershing tanks.

Irrelevant.

US Army Air power would have turned Soviet armor into target practice. They would have cried "unfair" all day and night, but they'd still be smoking heaps on the battlefield

What do you suppose the Soviet Air Force would be doing? They defeated the other half of the Luftwaffe.

We can debate back and forth, but the real issue was that FDR was a sock puppet for Stalin and allowed the enslavement of hundreds of millions of people to Soviet Communism.

That is nonsensical and you know it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

In other words, he doesn't agree with you. LOL. Not agreeing with a moron makes one a moron? Yeah, no...

Actually, Pattons poor understanding of the political aspects of his position are well documented and almost cost him his career. His inability to get along with his superiors and allies are well documented.

"... poor understanding of the political aspects..."

But absolutely correct about communism, huh?

Too bad FDR wasn't.

Correct?

History proved Patton wrong. The invasion that Patton advocated would have cost hundreds of thousands of US lives. As it was, the Soviet Union surrendered without a shot being fired 45 years later

Total nonsense.....exactly what one would expect from an apologist for FDR, Stalin and communism.


Carry on.

Nonsense?

You mean the Soviet Union did not collapse on its own?
How many deaths would Pattons Soviet invasion have cause us? Hundreds of thousand? Million?

The idea of the US willfully going to war against the Soviets in 1945 is such an absurdity that it's probably people like you and me and the rest who are at fault for dignifying the idea with anything more than a good laugh.

But that's what we do here at USMB, dignify absurdity. We are the absurdity dignifiers.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yep, there was a lot of killing during WWII, but at the time most Americans seemed mostly concerned about the number of Americans being killed. Call us selfish if you will.

Patton posed no problem, Ike kept him pretty much under lock and key.

That's actually a good answer! And had we fought the Germans in 1940, that would have been effective.

Also, Rommel had suggested that instead of concentrating on building tanks, the Germans should have build more towed 8.8 to fight the Russians who had the habit of charging head long into kill zones

By the time we actually crossed swords with them in 1943 we needed the 76 to pen the Mark IV's and the 90mm to have a chance at a Tiger (in service since 1942). I always thought it was negligent that we sent the Shermans into combat knowing they were under-armored and outgunned. It was Patton and the armor commanders that made the difference

Fortunate that we didn't go to war with the Soviets as Patton suggested at the time.....the T-34 was superior to the Sherman and the IS-2 would have defeated the new Pershing tanks.

Irrelevant.

US Army Air power would have turned Soviet armor into target practice. They would have cried "unfair" all day and night, but they'd still be smoking heaps on the battlefield

What do you suppose the Soviet Air Force would be doing? They defeated the other half of the Luftwaffe.

We can debate back and forth, but the real issue was that FDR was a sock puppet for Stalin and allowed the enslavement of hundreds of millions of people to Soviet Communism.

That is nonsensical and you know it.

It's the truth. FDR was all but a Soviet satellite. The entire prosecution of the war including setting the USA on a collision course with Japan was all orchestrated by Stalin and executed by his staff working at US State Department and the White House.

McCarthy warned us and instead of having scores of traitors on Death Row, we allowed the Soviet Spy network to continue to propagate and infiltrate academia, the media, the Democrat Party and the RINOs

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yep, there was a lot of killing during WWII, but at the time most Americans seemed mostly concerned about the number of Americans being killed. Call us selfish if you will.

Patton posed no problem, Ike kept him pretty much under lock and key.

Fortunate that we didn't go to war with the Soviets as Patton suggested at the time.....the T-34 was superior to the Sherman and the IS-2 would have defeated the new Pershing tanks.

Irrelevant.

US Army Air power would have turned Soviet armor into target practice. They would have cried "unfair" all day and night, but they'd still be smoking heaps on the battlefield

What do you suppose the Soviet Air Force would be doing? They defeated the other half of the Luftwaffe.

We can debate back and forth, but the real issue was that FDR was a sock puppet for Stalin and allowed the enslavement of hundreds of millions of people to Soviet Communism.

That is nonsensical and you know it.

It's the truth. FDR was all but a Soviet satellite. The entire prosecution of the war including setting the USA on a collision course with Japan was all orchestrated by Stalin and executed by his staff working at US State Department and the White House.

McCarthy warned us and instead of having scores of traitors on Death Row, we allowed the Soviet Spy network to continue to propagate and infiltrate academia, the media, the Democrat Party and the RINOs

"....including setting the USA on a collision course with Japan was all orchestrated by Stalin and executed by his staff working at US State Department and the White House."

Frank.....they are raised like mushrooms...

They know nothing of Operation Snow.


In 1995,Kremlin agent Vitaly Pavlov revealed "Operation Snow,"the plan to manipulate Japan and America into war.

a.In "Sacred Secrets: How Soviet Intelligence Operations Changed American History," Leona Schecter and Jerrold Schecter make a very strong case for Pearl Harbor being the most complex and successful KGB operation, designed to avert a Japanese attack on the USSR, and to force the United States to fight a two-front war, and be unable to stop Stalin from control of at least half of Europe. In 1995, former Kremlin agent Vitaly Pavlov revealed his role in this "Operation Snow."

b. Pavlov "was sent to the United States seven months before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor to meet with Harry Dexter White, then director of Monetary Research for the Treasury.
Did "Snow" mean "White"?
Yes,
Harry Dexter White had been a Soviet "asset" since the early 1930s, providing information to Whittaker Chambers, a courier for the communist underground. By 1941 White was a top aide and adviser to Henry Morgenthau, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury.

Pavlov wrote that the Soviets feared a Japanese attack from the east, and his mission was to discuss with White what could be done to keep the Japanese from joining forces with the Germans."
Sacred Secrets: How Soviet Intelligence Operations Changed American History


'White was a top aide and adviser to Henry Morgenthau, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury'....




c. "The chapter on Pearl Harbor is likewise instructive as to how Soviet agents operated. Japan seriously considered an attack on Russia, but Stalin’s agents in the Japanese government and in the highly efficient Sorge spy ring on the island nation helped persuade Imperial Japan to turn its aggression “elsewhere.” That “elsewhere” eventually turned out to be Pearl Harbor.

Stalin’s acolytes in the U.S. were simultaneously pushing a foreign policy against Japan that would lead the Japanese away from any designs on Siberia and toward conflict with America."
Infiltration, intrigue and Communists - Conservative News


Machiavelli could have learned from Stalin!

 

[NYcarbineer]

[
2. "--because it was necessary..."
Perhaps something was necessary...but not Roosevelt's steps.
Need proof?
Under Franklin Roosevelt- "No depression, or recession, had ever lasted even half this long."

8,020,000 Americans were unemployed in 1931. In 1939, after the excellent decisions by Franklin Roosevelt, there were 9,480,000 unemployed.
Folsom, "New Deal of Raw Deal," p. 3.

You are comically dishonest.

1931 was 2 years before FDR became president.

In 1932, the year FDR was elected there were 12 million Americans unemployed.

In 1941, there were 5.5 million Americans unemployed. A reduction of 6.5 million, not your concocted increase.

Be honest.

Unemployment Statistics during the Great Depression