The Politics of General Patton

[rightwinger]

I have read a lot of biographies of Payton and Einstein, but Brady? Please elaborate

Amazon.com Moving the Chains Tom Brady and the Pursuit of Everything 9780374214449 Charles P. Pierce Books

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Is that the guy who served under Payton? And he became a general and his boss?

Yes and set the US effort back by at least 6 months.

Had Patton and Bradley kept their pre-slap roles, the US and Brits would have been in Berlin and Prague at least 6 months ahead of the Russians

 

[PoliticalChic]

5. My first two panels in this thread were meant to set the stage for the politics of the time, Franklin Roosevelt's politics.


Roosevelt was so popular and the depression so fearful, that he would have been able to advance any political philosophy....in keeping with the motto of another Democrat: " You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

And Roosevelt did....it just wasn't the political philosophy of the Founders: he obviated the Constitution, pushed free-market capitalism behind socialism, and the same with the individual vis-a-vis the collective.

But even more, he invited Stalin's agents into his administration and used his immense popularity against any who might criticize Stalin, communism, or Russia.




6. This example, again, is characteristic of Roosevelt's 'protecting' communism:

George Earle was a special emissary of FDR's to Europe...and returned in 1944 with proof that implicated the Soviets in the Katyn Forest massacre (In April of 1943, the mass graves of thousands of shot, bayoneted, and asphyxiated Polish officers were uncovered in the Katyn pine forest near Smolensk, Russia.) Earle testified later at the Katyn Forest hearings that Joe Levy of the NYTimes, warned him that bringing an anti-Soviet report to FDR would be a career ender : "George, you don't know what you are going to over there. Harry Hopkins has completed domination over the President and the whole atmosphere over there is 'pink.'"
West, "American Betrayal," p.211.


a. On March 22, 1945, FDR wrote to Earle: "I have noted with concern your plan to publicize your unfavorable opinion of one of our allies. I do not wish you to do so. Not only do I not wish it, I specifically forbid you to do so."

He then ordered Earle to Samoa for the duration.



7. On March 26, 1945, Army Chief of Staff George C. Marshall issued the following order: "Censor all stories, delete criticism Russian treatment." This was aimed at those Americans who had been POWs of the Red Army.

Note that some 20,000 US soldiers were never returned by our 'ally,' Joseph Stalin.


a. FDR died April 12th..but, based on Marshall's order, the White House clearly knew of the following prior to that:

" By May 15, 1945, the Pentagon believed 25,000 American POWs "liberated" by the Red Army were still being held hostage to Soviet demands that all "Soviet citizens" be returned to Soviet control, "without exception" and by force if necessary, as agreed to at the Yalta Conference in February 1945.

When the U.S. refused to return some military formations composed of Soviet citizens, such as the First Ukrainian SS Division, Stalin retaliated by returning only 4,116 of the hostage American POWs. On June 1, 1945, the United States Government issued documents, signed by General Dwight D. Eisenhower, explaining away the loss of approximately 20,000 POWs remaining under Stalin's control."
http://www.nationalalliance.org/wwii/wwii.htm



So....FDR fit right in with the economic policies of Mussolini and Hitler, and did cartwheels in support of Stalin, up to and including Stalin's enslaving 20,000 American soldiers.
Now let's see where George Patton fits in......

Coming right up>

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Militarily, Patton was a genius
Politically, he was a moron

No grant was a military genius and a political bumbling fool, payton was the best of the best

Brady is better

 

[Wyatt earp]

Now I remember who Bradley was, useless forgotten in history

 

[Wyatt earp]

No wonder why light infantry bored his name, crap that is useless

 

[Discombobulated]

Pleeeeezzzze!

Careful...you may inspire me to expose George Marshall.....and you won't like it.

"One example of George Marshall's understanding of military science: He was testifying before a Senate committee in the summer of 1940, after the German break-through in France.
A senator asked him whether the army knew how to stop tanks. Marshall said he believed the jeep was the answer to the tank. To the flabbergasted senators, he explained: "As I conceive it, hundreds of jeeps will swarm over the battlefield, each of them towing a 37 millimeter anti-tank gun. That way we will put the tanks out of business."
As it turned out, the 37 millimeter anti-tank guns Marshall was talking about wouldn't stop a light tank at close range, but that was beside the point. What the German tiger and panther tanks might have done to a fleet of jeeps racing out on a battlefield would have been a spectacle."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 118-119

The Jeep helped win the war

The concept was the lethality of the guns towed to the point of battle, not the Jeeps themselves

Yes 1940 was a turning point for our military forces. We had maybe the seventh strongest military in the world. Thanks to the military excallation lead by Gen Marshall, we went from a third rate military power to a super power

I wonder what gave Gen. Marshall such crazy ideas.

37MM AT gun?

Can you name one German tank that the 37MM could pen?

I can name several, in fact in 1940 that would be most German tanks. The Panzer 1, Panzer II, Panzer III, Czech Lt-35 and Lt-38, everything in the German arsenal at the time except the frontal armor of a Panzer Mk 4.

That's actually a good answer! And had we fought the Germans in 1940, that would have been effective.

Also, Rommel had suggested that instead of concentrating on building tanks, the Germans should have build more towed 8.8 to fight the Russians who had the habit of charging head long into kill zones

By the time we actually crossed swords with them in 1943 we needed the 76 to pen the Mark IV's and the 90mm to have a chance at a Tiger (in service since 1942). I always thought it was negligent that we sent the Shermans into combat knowing they were under-armored and outgunned. It was Patton and the armor commanders that made the difference

Fortunate that we didn't go to war with the Soviets as Patton suggested at the time.....the T-34 was superior to the Sherman and the IS-2 would have defeated the new Pershing tanks.

 

[regent]

These board games are interesting, I move Patton here and so forth, but perhaps the biggest pawn to be reckoned with was the American people. Would they have tolerated America going to war with the USSR? We had already begun our dismantling the army and preparing for the peace that would soon follow.

 

[Discombobulated]

Now I remember who Bradley was, useless forgotten in history

Not much of a historian.....are you.

 

[rightwinger]

Now I remember who Bradley was, useless forgotten in history

Coulda fooled me

Omar Bradley was one of our greatest Generals

 

[rightwinger]

These board games are interesting, I move Patton here and so forth, but perhaps the biggest pawn to be reckoned with was the American people. Would they have tolerated America going to war with the USSR? We had already begun our dismantling the army and preparing for the peace that would soon follow.

I could just see the American peoples reaction after four hard years of war and 400,000 dead. Invade Russia, tie us up for another ten years and lose a million soldiers

 

[Conservative65]

"No bastard ever won a war dying for his coutry. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - G. Patton

That's the view I take with enhanced interrogation.

 

[regent]

Now I remember who Bradley was, useless forgotten in history

Patton was old blood and guts and Bradley "a
gI's soldier."

 

[Camp]

"No bastard ever won a war dying for his coutry. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - G. Patton

That's the view I take with enhanced interrogation.

A knee slapping, but nonsense quote. Shows what Patton thought of his men also. He considered the ones who died following his orders as "poor dumb bastards".

 

[Conservative65]

"No bastard ever won a war dying for his coutry. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - G. Patton

That's the view I take with enhanced interrogation.

A knee slapping, but nonsense quote. Shows what Patton thought of his men also. He considered the ones who died following his orders as "poor dumb bastards".

He would have considered you just a simple minded bastard.

 

[Camp]

"No bastard ever won a war dying for his coutry. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - G. Patton

That's the view I take with enhanced interrogation.

A knee slapping, but nonsense quote. Shows what Patton thought of his men also. He considered the ones who died following his orders as "poor dumb bastards".

He would have considered you just a simple minded bastard.

He pretty much thought of everyone that way, believing himself to be a combined reincarnation of the greatest warriors in history. He viewed himself as god like or at least a messenger from god.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"No bastard ever won a war dying for his coutry. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - G. Patton

That's the view I take with enhanced interrogation.

A knee slapping, but nonsense quote. Shows what Patton thought of his men also. He considered the ones who died following his orders as "poor dumb bastards".

No surprise that you, a regular apologist for Franklin Roosevelt, the spy Harry Hopkins, and by extension, Joseph Stalin, would disparage the great warrior, Patton.


This Patton:

8. Now, enter George S. Patton....if not the finest warrior the United States fielded in WWII, at the very least, one of the best. This was acknowledged both in words, and by the fact that he was a thorn in the side of both Eisenhower and Franklin Roosevelt...but they found it difficult not to give him prominent roles throughout the war.


" George Smith Patton, Jr.(November 11, 1885 – December 21, 1945) was a United States Army general, best known for his flamboyant character and his command of the Seventh United States Army, and later the Third United States Army, in the European Theater of World War II.


Patton led U.S. troops into the Mediterranean theater with an invasion of Casablanca during Operation Torch in 1942, where he later established himself as an effective commander through his rapid rehabilitation of the demoralized U.S. II Corps. He commanded the Seventh Army during the Invasion of Sicily, where he was the first allied commander to reach Messina. .... command the Third Army following the invasion of Normandy in 1944, where he led a highly successful, rapid armored drive across France.


He led the relief of beleaguered U.S. troops at Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge, and advanced his army into Nazi Germany by the end of the war.


.... his philosophy of leading from the front and his ability to inspire his troops with vulgarity-ridden speeches, such as a famous address to the Third Army, attracted favorable attention. His strong emphasis on rapid and aggressive offensive action proved effective. While Allied leaders held sharply differing opinions on Patton, he was regarded highly by his opponents in the German High Command.





When Eisenhower asked Patton how long it would take him to disengage six divisions of his Third Army and commence a counterattack north to relieve the U.S. 101st Airborne Division which had been trapped at Bastogne, Patton replied, "As soon as you're through with me."[151]
Patton then clarified that he had already worked up an operational order for a counterattack by three full divisions on December 21, then only 48 hours away.[151]Eisenhower was incredulous: "Don't be fatuous, George. If you try to go that early you won't have all three divisions ready and you'll go piecemeal."
Patton replied that his staff already had a contingency operations order ready to go. Still unconvinced, Eisenhower ordered Patton to attack the morning of December 22, using at least three divisions.[152]

Patton left the conference room, phoned his command, and uttered two words: "Play ball."
George S. Patton - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


On more than one occasion Eisenhower turned to Patton when he was in trouble.
Since you are not ashamed to accept Stalin's influence in Roosevelt's administration, I'm certain you won't be ashamed to have attempted to smear General Patton.

One must accept that from you Leftists.

 

[Conservative65]

"No bastard ever won a war dying for his coutry. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - G. Patton

That's the view I take with enhanced interrogation.

A knee slapping, but nonsense quote. Shows what Patton thought of his men also. He considered the ones who died following his orders as "poor dumb bastards".

He would have considered you just a simple minded bastard.

He pretty much thought of everyone that way, believing himself to be a combined reincarnation of the greatest warriors in history. He viewed himself as god like or at least a messenger from god.

He would have thought of you that way.

If we had more people willing to fight like him in order to win instead of people like you that want us to fight with the mindset of not losing, we wouldn't have the problems we have with our enemies. It would take making a few examples for the smart ones to learn. The stupid ones would simply become more examples for the smart ones to see.

 

[regent]

Patton was a useful tool and Ike used him for those jobs Patton might accomplish, and for other jobs Patton was a problem and put on hold. The genius was that Ike knew the difference. Chic's posts make me more of an Ike fan than before and less of a Patton fan. Thanks

 

[PoliticalChic]

Patton was a useful tool and Ike used him for those jobs Patton might accomplish, and for other jobs Patton was a problem and put on hold. The genius was that Ike knew the difference. Chic's posts make me more of an Ike fan than before and less of a Patton fan. Thanks

You really shouldn't take pride in your ignorance, reggie.

Eisenhower was selected by FDR/Marshall because they knew he could follow their orders, not because he was the best around.
He was a company man.
He got his final star by 'changing his mind' on the Normandy invasion, i.e., letting Stalin dictate where it should target.


When first selected, he ran to Patton for help....in North Africa.
But the Brits wanted a 'committee' to command, they didn't trust Eisenhower.


Pick up a copy of "A Soldier's Life."

"Most telling of all during his first few months as commander in chief was that Eisenhower was not his own man. His debt to Marshall was so huge he was unable or unwilling to carve out his independence.

Being a commander in name and actually being in command are vastly different. In 1942, and early 1943, Eisenhower rarely showed glances of having his hand firmly on the tiller. North Africa was hardly the place for the indoctrination of an inexperienced supreme commander, a serious issue with the British, who believed that war was no place for amateurs.....The inescapable conclusion, however, is that on the basis of Eisenhower's early performance in North Africa, they had every right to question the political decision that resulted in the appointment of an inexperienced American general to command the all-important first Allied effort against the Axis.

The plan to utilize Patton thus died when Marshall cabled Eisenhower; 'ALEXANDER WILL BE YOUR MAN WHEN BRITISH EIGHTH ARMY JOINS YOU AFTER CAPTURING TRIPOLI.'
"Eisenhower: A Soldier's Life," By Carlo D'Este, P.384-385
(Patton was sent to Sicily to plan the invasion there....and he made the Brits look bad, there.)


reggie.....do I really have to teach you EVERYTHING?????