The Palestine Solution

[montelatici]

And again in 1926:

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committee

July 25, 1926
“Due to the success of our colonization work in Palestine proper, it is possible that eventually our colonization work will be extended beyond the frontiers of Transjordania. It is true that the Palestine government has not taken a clear stand in regard to its economic policy, but well founded demands have every prospect of being agreed to. A great deal has been achieved during the last months,” Dr. Weizmann said.

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ

 

[Boston1]

BTW you are fighting a losing battle. There is no way any neutral observer will blame colonization on the colonized. It is illogical.

There is no way any neutral observer could label the Jewish people colonizers of their own homeland.

Not only would a neutral observer label the Zionists colonizers, they labeled themselves colonizers in writing as early as 1899.

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The solution to the problem is to dump the ideology that the Jewish people have no rights to self-determination AND to dump the ideology that the Palestinians have no rights to self-determination. Everyone needs to just stop discussing the lack of rights and start discussing an acknowledgement of rights.

The solution to the problem is to drop all of the arguments about why this people or that people should have no rights or limited rights and instead focus on what steps may be practical, reasonable, fair, balanced and will move us forward. In other words, to do what every resolution and every treaty has done since this whole thing started after WWI. What can people live with?

Personally, I don't think the Palestinians, or some groups of Muslims, are capable of any of these things. But we, as in those on this forum, should be able to let go of our ideologies and biases long enough to solve the problem. And then, together, maybe we can talk some sense into them on an international scale.

So let's focus on the future: what can both the Jewish people and the Palestinian people accept?

I'd agree that we need to start talking about mutual rights however its not mutual rights that are the real problem, its the palestinians penchant towards violence thats the problem and that has led to the restrictions and now the deportations. Until the violence stops, all the talk in the world isn't going to help.

As for colonization. I wonder if Montie realizes that palestinians where flocking to sell their land to Zionists so fast that the powers that be at that time ended making laws lest the ENTIRE COUNTRY be sold.

Show me anyone else known as a colonizer in history that ACTUALLY PURCHASED THEIR LAND ;--)

 

[Hollie]

The solution to the problem is to dump the ideology that the Jewish people have no rights to self-determination AND to dump the ideology that the Palestinians have no rights to self-determination. Everyone needs to just stop discussing the lack of rights and start discussing an acknowledgement of rights.

The solution to the problem is to drop all of the arguments about why this people or that people should have no rights or limited rights and instead focus on what steps may be practical, reasonable, fair, balanced and will move us forward. In other words, to do what every resolution and every treaty has done since this whole thing started after WWI. What can people live with?

Personally, I don't think the Palestinians, or some groups of Muslims, are capable of any of these things. But we, as in those on this forum, should be able to let go of our ideologies and biases long enough to solve the problem. And then, together, maybe we can talk some sense into them on an international scale.

So let's focus on the future: what can both the Jewish people and the Palestinian people accept?

"So let's focus on the future: what can both the Jewish people and the Palestinian people accept?"

Let's start there.
The State of Israel has returned and withdrawn from captured territory greater than the size of Israel itself--Sinai, Egyptian land west of the Nile, land east of the Golan to the suburbs of Damascus, southern Lebanon, Gaza; and, the expressed governmental policy of the State of Israel is to trade land for a secured peace with her neighbors, including the so-called "Pal'istanians". The Israelis have shown a willingness to accept secure borders for peace.

What will Hamas accept in connection with their Charter?

 

[Shusha]

Do we really need to review what the term "colony" means?

 

[Boston1]

And again in 1926:

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committee

July 25, 1926
“Due to the success of our colonization work in Palestine proper, it is possible that eventually our colonization work will be extended beyond the frontiers of Transjordania. It is true that the Palestine government has not taken a clear stand in regard to its economic policy, but well founded demands have every prospect of being agreed to. A great deal has been achieved during the last months,” Dr. Weizmann said.

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ

Are you really going to prattle on about Zionist literature from nearly 100 years ago and present it is applicable today ?

 

[montelatici]

Unless you want to change the definition of colonization, I think I have made my point.

 

[Hollie]

And again in 1926:

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committee

July 25, 1926
“Due to the success of our colonization work in Palestine proper, it is possible that eventually our colonization work will be extended beyond the frontiers of Transjordania. It is true that the Palestine government has not taken a clear stand in regard to its economic policy, but well founded demands have every prospect of being agreed to. A great deal has been achieved during the last months,” Dr. Weizmann said.

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ

Let's put that in the context of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire where Moslem hordes colonized the land through war, forced conversion and rapine.

 

[Shusha]

... its not mutual rights that are the real problem, its the palestinians penchant towards violence thats the problem...

I would argue it is the Palestinian (read also: some Muslim) ideology which is the foundation of the problem. The violence won't stop until the ideology changes.

 

[Billo_Really]

You fail to realize that the "native people" were not native at all but Islamist colonizers who used war and rapine as their method of colonization.

That's a load of crap!

Palestinian's have been living in that area for the last 2000 years. They are the genetic descendants of ancient Jews.

"In 2001, Human Immunology magazine published a genetic study conducted by Prof. Antonio Arnez-Vilna, a Spanish researcher from the University of Complutense in Madrid, who discovered that the immune systems of the Jews and the Palestinians are extremely close to one another in a way that almost absolutely demonstrates a similar genetic identity."​

Other DNA studies show...

...that "the Palestinians are genetically much closer to Ashkenazi Jews than they are to the Arabs."​

So no, they were not "Islamist colonizers", as you claim.


You're suffering from what is called cognitive dissonance. [/QUOTE]You cannot have "cognitive dissonance" without the presence of new evidence and you, twisted sister, have not provided any.

 

[Hollie]

Unless you want to change the definition of colonization, I think I have made my point.

And what point would that be?

 

[montelatici]

The foundational problem is Zionist ideology. The violence won't stop until the Zionists accept that they colonized Palestine and evicted the native people and start negotiating terms.

 

[Hollie]

You fail to realize that the "native people" were not native at all but Islamist colonizers who used war and rapine as their method of colonization.

That's a load of crap!

Palestinian's have been living in that area for the last 2000 years. They are the genetic descendants of ancient Jews.

"In 2001, Human Immunology magazine published a genetic study conducted by Prof. Antonio Arnez-Vilna, a Spanish researcher from the University of Complutense in Madrid, who discovered that the immune systems of the Jews and the Palestinians are extremely close to one another in a way that almost absolutely demonstrates a similar genetic identity."​

Other DNA studies show...

...that "the Palestinians are genetically much closer to Ashkenazi Jews than they are to the Arabs."​

So no, they were not "Islamist colonizers", as you claim.


You're suffering from what is called cognitive dissonance.

You cannot have "cognitive dissonance" without the presence of new evidence and you, twisted sister, have not provided any.[/QUOTE]
Sweetie, do a google search with the term "Ottoman Empire" and see if your few remaining synapses can still fire.

 

[Shusha]

col·o·ny
ˈkälənē/
noun

1. 1.
   a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country, typically a distant one, and occupied by settlers from that country.
   synonyms: settlement, dependency, protectorate, satellite, territory, outpost,province
   "a French colony"
   • 
     
2. 2.
   a group of people of one nationality or ethnic group living in a foreign city or country.

What country are the European Jews claiming Israel and Judea for? Germany? Poland? France?

A peoples exercising self-determination on their own ancestral lands can not be colonizers. By definition.

 

[Hollie]

The foundational problem is Zionist ideology. The violence won't stop until the Zionists accept that they colonized Palestine and evicted the native people and start negotiating terms.

False. The foundational problem is Islamist fascism.

Read the Hamas Charter for a look into the gaping maw of islamo-fascism.

 

[Boston1]

Unless you want to change the definition of colonization, I think I have made my point.

Name one other instance where so called colonizers PURCHASED LAND LEGALLY

 

[montelatici]

It is the Zionist Jews themselves that considered themselves European colonizers. People going from another continent to colonize land on a different continent are, by definition colonizers. Palestine was not ancestral land of Europeans, of whatever faith.

 

[Billo_Really]

Sweetie, do a google search with the term "Ottoman Empire" and see if your few remaining synapses can still fire.

You make the claim, you provide the evidence.

BTW, the Palestinian's were living there during the Ottoman Empire as well.

They didn't just ride in with the Otto's.

 

[montelatici]

Unless you want to change the definition of colonization, I think I have made my point.

Name one other instance where so called colonizers PURCHASED LAND LEGALLY

The Jews did not purchase the land legally or otherwise. What are you talking about?

 

[Hollie]

It is the Zionist Jews themselves that considered themselves European colonizers. People going from another continent to colonize land on a different continent are, by definition colonizers. Palestine was not ancestral land of Europeans, of whatever faith.

Its convenient to ignore the Moslem hordes which invaded and colonized the geographic area called "Palestine" as colonizers, but your attempt at argument then self-contradicts.

 

[Shusha]

It is the Zionist Jews themselves that considered themselves European colonizers. People going from another continent to colonize land on a different continent are, by definition colonizers. Palestine was not ancestral land of Europeans, of whatever faith.

By that frame of reference all that needs to be done to turn an indigenous person into a colonizer is to remove them from their land. Is that really what you are arguing?