The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Shusha]

Also, if you can show where I don't apply universal standards, please make an attempt to do so.

Certainly.

You never mentioned that the Jewish state terrorism against the Palestinians should be halted before any negotiations for peace/conflict resolution should take place. You only demanded it of the Palestinians.

Correct ?

I am fairly certain we don't share the same objective definition of terrorism here. What is the universal standard when it comes to State actions during a civil war?

 

[Sixties Fan]

You employed the racistcanard on queue.

As to the Arabs-Moslems working to form a civil government, why don’t you consider some overseas outreach and become a mediator to resolve the divides that separate the competing mini-caliphates? I treat the competing mini-caliphates as separate and antagonist entities because that’s how they view each other. You do know they fought a rather nasty civil war that left bodies littering the streets, right?

Odd you should suggest that the Pals might be able to form a unified assembly/parliament. With the PNA / PLO / PLC being something of a model for fraud, waste and mismanagement and the quasi sharia / Islamic terrorist hierarchy in Gaza’istan, your comment suggesting that the Islamic terrorists at the top of the welfare fraud food chain will form a workable government is rather silly. Why haven’t they done so already, (note-please don't feel a need to litter the thread with the expected conspiracy theories involving the Great Satan, the Zionist Entity and the Brits.)

You’re hoping to exploit a conspiracy theory about Jews, money foreign invaders and something about “criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land”. Those are all the stereotypical conspiracy theories and canards that get tossed around so I have to ask if you’re willing or able to actually form a coherent argument?

What do you think would happen if, as you suggest, everyone took the welfare money out of the hands of the Arabs-Moslems?

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves it reeks of racism. It was the mainstay of the white mans burden throughout their subjugation of the peoples of the world in their ages of empire. So if you got called out on posing the same racist claptrap here, you got what you deserved imo.

Not only do I know that the Fatah and Hamas factions fought the Battle of Gaza ,I know what was behind it and that falls into the divide an conquer tactics used by the usual suspects.What you foolishly refer to as conspiracy theory is actually the tried and tested means virtually all conflicts/empires are structured. That you wish to see it as a fantasy only shows how out of touch you are.

The criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land is real and easily understood for those that view different peoples as being equal wrt rights .

If the foreigh donors stopped their money supply then the whole greater Israel project ( an possibly Israel itself ) would start to unravel and the dire situation of the Palestinians would be impossible for the world to ignore the way it does. I'm not advocating it because of the suffering it would cause but that's what I think would happen.

Israel, as the occupying power, is getting away from the financial burden of that occupation. As an occupier it would and should be resoponsible for the welfare of the people it occupies.

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves because certain peoples have shown no ability yo govern themselves, it means that that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves.

The silly racism slogan is timewasting. If you’re going to litter every post with the silly racism slogan, try first presenting a coherent argument.

Second, why retreat to silly conspiracy theories as a vehicle to excuse the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war? Your retreat to the silly divide and conquer tactics is just another tired cliché.

Your next slogan is the criminal exploitation canard. It’s another slogan that you can’t define, explain or provide support for. That’s, umm, you know. racist

Your next slogan is the “if the foreign donors (who you can’t define) stopped their money supply, Israel would collapse”, slogan. Well, actually no.

Israel Economy Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

What “occupation” are you referring to? What sovereign territory of either the Abbas or the Hamas mini-caliphate is occupied by Israel?

To not factor in the outside influences and the Israeli domination of the Palestinians , including their political life, into the equation of what we see in the OPTs is just plain ridiculous.

To refer to the dynamics of the divide and conquer concept as " conspiracy theory " is wholly vacuous.

The occupied territories consist of East Jerusalem , Gaza and the WB............you know , the territories they have voted at the UNGA every November for the last 35 ? years

Gaza is not occupied by Israel.
No part of Jerusalem is occupied by Israel.

From 1948 to 1967, the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria were occupied by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan after they ethnically cleansed all the Jews from that area, as they had done with TransJordan in 1925.

Not one word from any Arab, much less their leaders about that.

Could you explain that?

How many mistakes about the facts can you make in each post?

Do we need a fact check list?

 

[Sixties Fan]

You employed the racistcanard on queue.

As to the Arabs-Moslems working to form a civil government, why don’t you consider some overseas outreach and become a mediator to resolve the divides that separate the competing mini-caliphates? I treat the competing mini-caliphates as separate and antagonist entities because that’s how they view each other. You do know they fought a rather nasty civil war that left bodies littering the streets, right?

Odd you should suggest that the Pals might be able to form a unified assembly/parliament. With the PNA / PLO / PLC being something of a model for fraud, waste and mismanagement and the quasi sharia / Islamic terrorist hierarchy in Gaza’istan, your comment suggesting that the Islamic terrorists at the top of the welfare fraud food chain will form a workable government is rather silly. Why haven’t they done so already, (note-please don't feel a need to litter the thread with the expected conspiracy theories involving the Great Satan, the Zionist Entity and the Brits.)

You’re hoping to exploit a conspiracy theory about Jews, money foreign invaders and something about “criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land”. Those are all the stereotypical conspiracy theories and canards that get tossed around so I have to ask if you’re willing or able to actually form a coherent argument?

What do you think would happen if, as you suggest, everyone took the welfare money out of the hands of the Arabs-Moslems?

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves it reeks of racism. It was the mainstay of the white mans burden throughout their subjugation of the peoples of the world in their ages of empire. So if you got called out on posing the same racist claptrap here, you got what you deserved imo.

Not only do I know that the Fatah and Hamas factions fought the Battle of Gaza ,I know what was behind it and that falls into the divide an conquer tactics used by the usual suspects.What you foolishly refer to as conspiracy theory is actually the tried and tested means virtually all conflicts/empires are structured. That you wish to see it as a fantasy only shows how out of touch you are.

The criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land is real and easily understood for those that view different peoples as being equal wrt rights .

If the foreigh donors stopped their money supply then the whole greater Israel project ( an possibly Israel itself ) would start to unravel and the dire situation of the Palestinians would be impossible for the world to ignore the way it does. I'm not advocating it because of the suffering it would cause but that's what I think would happen.

Israel, as the occupying power, is getting away from the financial burden of that occupation. As an occupier it would and should be resoponsible for the welfare of the people it occupies.

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves because certain peoples have shown no ability yo govern themselves, it means that that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves.

The silly racism slogan is timewasting. If you’re going to litter every post with the silly racism slogan, try first presenting a coherent argument.

Second, why retreat to silly conspiracy theories as a vehicle to excuse the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war? Your retreat to the silly divide and conquer tactics is just another tired cliché.

Your next slogan is the criminal exploitation canard. It’s another slogan that you can’t define, explain or provide support for. That’s, umm, you know. racist

Your next slogan is the “if the foreign donors (who you can’t define) stopped their money supply, Israel would collapse”, slogan. Well, actually no.

Israel Economy Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

What “occupation” are you referring to? What sovereign territory of either the Abbas or the Hamas mini-caliphate is occupied by Israel?

To not factor in the outside influences and the Israeli domination of the Palestinians , including their political life, into the equation of what we see in the OPTs is just plain ridiculous.

To refer to the dynamics of the divide and conquer concept as " conspiracy theory " is wholly vacuous.

The occupied territories consist of East Jerusalem , Gaza and the WB............you know , the territories they have voted at the UNGA every November for the last 35 ? years

Gaza is not occupied by Israel.

How many mistakes about the facts can you make in each post?

Do we need a fact check list?

Susha, Spartacus clearly wants to discuss post 1948.
Could we find another thread to invite him/her to come join us and discuss all of the above?

 

[Sixties Fan]

A different two-state solution

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict might be resolved by the creation of two states: Israel, incorporating the Golan Heights and the West Bank, and a separate Palestinian Gaza. Palestinians within the West Bank would become full citizens of Israel. Minus Gaza, Jews would still be a majority in the...

www.usmessageboard.com

This is the only one I have found.

 

[rylah]

A different two-state solution

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict might be resolved by the creation of two states: Israel, incorporating the Golan Heights and the West Bank, and a separate Palestinian Gaza. Palestinians within the West Bank would become full citizens of Israel. Minus Gaza, Jews would still be a majority in the...

www.usmessageboard.com

This is the only one I have found.

We have passed that threshold.
Only one state - Israel.
No options.

You'll see.

 

[Shusha]

Sixties Fan,

Doesn't seem to be a point, since the fundamental problem with Spartacactcus' argument is not his (?) lack of "facts" (though that is a considerable issue) -- its his inability to view the Jewish people as a collective whole, with an origin story, a history and distinct and ancient culture. He doesn't view the Jewish people as having the right to (re)establish their sovereignty and self-determination.

 

[rylah]

Hello fellow posters,

We seem to be straying away from the point of this thread.
It is turning into the thread which used to be available at the top about the two state solution.

I found this thread still available where post 1948 can be discussed. Let us all meet there:

Majority of Palestinians now oppose two-state solution, new poll finds

A clear majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip oppose a two-state solution to end their struggle with Israel, according to a poll released on Wednesday. Sixty percent of those polled, including 55% in the West Bank and 68% in Gaza, reject permanently accepting Israel’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

As for self determination for the Arabs pre 1948, we can all discuss the 1937 and 1947 proposals for partition of what was left of the Mandate for Palestine after 78% was given to the Hashemites, and whether the Arab leaders were looking for what was the best for the Arab population or if they were looking for something else.

Were the Arab leaders looking for Justice for the Arabs who lived there at the time, or were they looking for something else altogether?

What happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and before Israel declared Independence?

How could the Arab leaders have helped the Arab population achieve self determination from 1920 on ?

Did the Arab leaders actions, since 1920, help or hinder the aspirations of two states, one Jewish and one Arab? Was there such an aspiration before May 1948?

Well , what we can be sure of is that , given the lack of crystal balls on the planet , the Arab rejection of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was both understandable and reasonable.

I can't recall a situation when the native population eagerly supported their own dispossession and displacement at the hands on recently arrived immigrants from foreign lands with a completely different culture.

Anyone think of where that has ever happened just to give an exception to the rule ?

FYI, a ton of info.

HOME - 1948

Palestine - Israel History

www.1948.org.uk

FYI, a ton of misinformation. The propagandists seem to share your befuddlement about a geographic area. From the “about” section: OUR STATEMENT - 1948

“How was it that one nation, Palestine, which was under the protection of the League of Nations after WW1...”

The Magical Kingdom of Pal’istan was one nation?

When did that happen?

Palestine’s legal position under International Law was clear: The United Kingdom was mandated Palestine in one piece. Article 5 of the Mandate required the Mandatory Power (the UK) to ensure that "no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way, placed under the control of the government of any foreign power".

Partition and the Law - 1948

www.1948.org.uk

During the term of the Mandate for Palestine, that was the case. You failed to notice that the Mandate ended at midnight on 14 May, 1948. The Mandate did not / does not extend in perpetuity.

Cutting and pasting a snippet from a blog without understanding the greater context (or intending to mislead about that context), is a failed argument.

When the Mandate ended, there were no lingering requirements that survived the ending of the Mandate.

You know full well Tinmore is mentally ill.

You're being too kind.
Mental illness is how rapists ease the sentence.
He knows exactly what he's doing - lying knowingly.
Proven each time and time again - total moral corruption.

Amlak......Amlaki kalb.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You employed the racistcanard on queue.

As to the Arabs-Moslems working to form a civil government, why don’t you consider some overseas outreach and become a mediator to resolve the divides that separate the competing mini-caliphates? I treat the competing mini-caliphates as separate and antagonist entities because that’s how they view each other. You do know they fought a rather nasty civil war that left bodies littering the streets, right?

Odd you should suggest that the Pals might be able to form a unified assembly/parliament. With the PNA / PLO / PLC being something of a model for fraud, waste and mismanagement and the quasi sharia / Islamic terrorist hierarchy in Gaza’istan, your comment suggesting that the Islamic terrorists at the top of the welfare fraud food chain will form a workable government is rather silly. Why haven’t they done so already, (note-please don't feel a need to litter the thread with the expected conspiracy theories involving the Great Satan, the Zionist Entity and the Brits.)

You’re hoping to exploit a conspiracy theory about Jews, money foreign invaders and something about “criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land”. Those are all the stereotypical conspiracy theories and canards that get tossed around so I have to ask if you’re willing or able to actually form a coherent argument?

What do you think would happen if, as you suggest, everyone took the welfare money out of the hands of the Arabs-Moslems?

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves it reeks of racism. It was the mainstay of the white mans burden throughout their subjugation of the peoples of the world in their ages of empire. So if you got called out on posing the same racist claptrap here, you got what you deserved imo.

Not only do I know that the Fatah and Hamas factions fought the Battle of Gaza ,I know what was behind it and that falls into the divide an conquer tactics used by the usual suspects.What you foolishly refer to as conspiracy theory is actually the tried and tested means virtually all conflicts/empires are structured. That you wish to see it as a fantasy only shows how out of touch you are.

The criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land is real and easily understood for those that view different peoples as being equal wrt rights .

If the foreigh donors stopped their money supply then the whole greater Israel project ( an possibly Israel itself ) would start to unravel and the dire situation of the Palestinians would be impossible for the world to ignore the way it does. I'm not advocating it because of the suffering it would cause but that's what I think would happen.

Israel, as the occupying power, is getting away from the financial burden of that occupation. As an occupier it would and should be resoponsible for the welfare of the people it occupies.

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves because certain peoples have shown no ability yo govern themselves, it means that that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves.

The silly racism slogan is timewasting. If you’re going to litter every post with the silly racism slogan, try first presenting a coherent argument.

Second, why retreat to silly conspiracy theories as a vehicle to excuse the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war? Your retreat to the silly divide and conquer tactics is just another tired cliché.

Your next slogan is the criminal exploitation canard. It’s another slogan that you can’t define, explain or provide support for. That’s, umm, you know. racist

Your next slogan is the “if the foreign donors (who you can’t define) stopped their money supply, Israel would collapse”, slogan. Well, actually no.

Israel Economy Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

What “occupation” are you referring to? What sovereign territory of either the Abbas or the Hamas mini-caliphate is occupied by Israel?

the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war?

You post this a lot but you don't know anything about it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hello fellow posters,

We seem to be straying away from the point of this thread.
It is turning into the thread which used to be available at the top about the two state solution.

I found this thread still available where post 1948 can be discussed. Let us all meet there:

Majority of Palestinians now oppose two-state solution, new poll finds

A clear majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip oppose a two-state solution to end their struggle with Israel, according to a poll released on Wednesday. Sixty percent of those polled, including 55% in the West Bank and 68% in Gaza, reject permanently accepting Israel’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

As for self determination for the Arabs pre 1948, we can all discuss the 1937 and 1947 proposals for partition of what was left of the Mandate for Palestine after 78% was given to the Hashemites, and whether the Arab leaders were looking for what was the best for the Arab population or if they were looking for something else.

Were the Arab leaders looking for Justice for the Arabs who lived there at the time, or were they looking for something else altogether?

What happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and before Israel declared Independence?

How could the Arab leaders have helped the Arab population achieve self determination from 1920 on ?

Did the Arab leaders actions, since 1920, help or hinder the aspirations of two states, one Jewish and one Arab? Was there such an aspiration before May 1948?

Well , what we can be sure of is that , given the lack of crystal balls on the planet , the Arab rejection of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was both understandable and reasonable.

I can't recall a situation when the native population eagerly supported their own dispossession and displacement at the hands on recently arrived immigrants from foreign lands with a completely different culture.

Anyone think of where that has ever happened just to give an exception to the rule ?

I do not know where you read or heard that the Arab Palestinians are the native population of Canaan. If so, that means that most of its history did not happen, and that Christianity did not come out of what happened there either.

You start with a false premise, pushed by the Arabs Muslims themselves since 1973, as they could not destroy Israel with any military attacks.

The Quran itself tells of the Jews being there as the native population when the Arabs' ancestors invaded the land. It was not until losing the 1948 to the Jews and the creation of Israel that some Arab leaders began to misinform the public and their own population, telling them that the Palestinians, who only became a nationlized people, in 1964, after Arafat .....with the Soviet KGB, came up with that idea.

The Arab leader, the Grand Mufti, tells how the Jews did not invade and dispossess any Arabs, but bought lands that no one wanted. Tel Aviv was built on one such land, which had been nothing but unwanted swamp.

The Mufti tells the truth: The Arabs sold the land to the Jews

The Mufti tells the truth: The Arabs sold the land to the Jews The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj al-Amin al-Husseini, will never be accused ...

middleeastfacts2015.blogspot.com

-----------
Yes, the Arab Muslims have been a totally foreign body on the land, since the 7th century, with a totally different religion and a totally different culture and language.

But there was nothing that unarmed Jews and others living there at the time could do then, or later.
Not until the end of the 19th century.

Why?

Because of endless pogroms against the Jews.

Check the Pogrom which happened in Damascus in the 19th century.

When any people, in groups or just families, from anywhere in the world go and live somewhere else, it does not make the new place their indigenous, native place.

Where the Jews came from, the land of Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestine, always was and continues to be their departing place and the place where they have every right to return to, as they made it their home for over 3000 years.

As to the Palestinians, their parting place is Arabia.
That is where they are indigenous from, no matter when they left.

I will ask again, what happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and in 1947?

Yes, the Arab Muslims have been a totally foreign body on the land, since the 7th century, with a totally different religion and a totally different culture and language.

Are you implying that in the 7th century every native of Palestine moved out and an entirely new population of Arab Muslims moved in?

 

[Indeependent]

Hello fellow posters,

We seem to be straying away from the point of this thread.
It is turning into the thread which used to be available at the top about the two state solution.

I found this thread still available where post 1948 can be discussed. Let us all meet there:

Majority of Palestinians now oppose two-state solution, new poll finds

A clear majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip oppose a two-state solution to end their struggle with Israel, according to a poll released on Wednesday. Sixty percent of those polled, including 55% in the West Bank and 68% in Gaza, reject permanently accepting Israel’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

As for self determination for the Arabs pre 1948, we can all discuss the 1937 and 1947 proposals for partition of what was left of the Mandate for Palestine after 78% was given to the Hashemites, and whether the Arab leaders were looking for what was the best for the Arab population or if they were looking for something else.

Were the Arab leaders looking for Justice for the Arabs who lived there at the time, or were they looking for something else altogether?

What happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and before Israel declared Independence?

How could the Arab leaders have helped the Arab population achieve self determination from 1920 on ?

Did the Arab leaders actions, since 1920, help or hinder the aspirations of two states, one Jewish and one Arab? Was there such an aspiration before May 1948?

Well , what we can be sure of is that , given the lack of crystal balls on the planet , the Arab rejection of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was both understandable and reasonable.

I can't recall a situation when the native population eagerly supported their own dispossession and displacement at the hands on recently arrived immigrants from foreign lands with a completely different culture.

Anyone think of where that has ever happened just to give an exception to the rule ?

I do not know where you read or heard that the Arab Palestinians are the native population of Canaan. If so, that means that most of its history did not happen, and that Christianity did not come out of what happened there either.

You start with a false premise, pushed by the Arabs Muslims themselves since 1973, as they could not destroy Israel with any military attacks.

The Quran itself tells of the Jews being there as the native population when the Arabs' ancestors invaded the land. It was not until losing the 1948 to the Jews and the creation of Israel that some Arab leaders began to misinform the public and their own population, telling them that the Palestinians, who only became a nationlized people, in 1964, after Arafat .....with the Soviet KGB, came up with that idea.

The Arab leader, the Grand Mufti, tells how the Jews did not invade and dispossess any Arabs, but bought lands that no one wanted. Tel Aviv was built on one such land, which had been nothing but unwanted swamp.

The Mufti tells the truth: The Arabs sold the land to the Jews

The Mufti tells the truth: The Arabs sold the land to the Jews The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj al-Amin al-Husseini, will never be accused ...

middleeastfacts2015.blogspot.com

-----------
Yes, the Arab Muslims have been a totally foreign body on the land, since the 7th century, with a totally different religion and a totally different culture and language.

But there was nothing that unarmed Jews and others living there at the time could do then, or later.
Not until the end of the 19th century.

Why?

Because of endless pogroms against the Jews.

Check the Pogrom which happened in Damascus in the 19th century.

When any people, in groups or just families, from anywhere in the world go and live somewhere else, it does not make the new place their indigenous, native place.

Where the Jews came from, the land of Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestine, always was and continues to be their departing place and the place where they have every right to return to, as they made it their home for over 3000 years.

As to the Palestinians, their parting place is Arabia.
That is where they are indigenous from, no matter when they left.

I will ask again, what happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and in 1947?

Yes, the Arab Muslims have been a totally foreign body on the land, since the 7th century, with a totally different religion and a totally different culture and language.

Are you implying that in the 7th century every native of Palestine moved out and an entirely new population of Arab Muslims moved in?

Can't tell when Muslims are constantly murdering each other and everyone else.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hello fellow posters,

We seem to be straying away from the point of this thread.
It is turning into the thread which used to be available at the top about the two state solution.

I found this thread still available where post 1948 can be discussed. Let us all meet there:

Majority of Palestinians now oppose two-state solution, new poll finds

A clear majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip oppose a two-state solution to end their struggle with Israel, according to a poll released on Wednesday. Sixty percent of those polled, including 55% in the West Bank and 68% in Gaza, reject permanently accepting Israel’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

As for self determination for the Arabs pre 1948, we can all discuss the 1937 and 1947 proposals for partition of what was left of the Mandate for Palestine after 78% was given to the Hashemites, and whether the Arab leaders were looking for what was the best for the Arab population or if they were looking for something else.

Were the Arab leaders looking for Justice for the Arabs who lived there at the time, or were they looking for something else altogether?

What happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and before Israel declared Independence?

How could the Arab leaders have helped the Arab population achieve self determination from 1920 on ?

Did the Arab leaders actions, since 1920, help or hinder the aspirations of two states, one Jewish and one Arab? Was there such an aspiration before May 1948?

Well , what we can be sure of is that , given the lack of crystal balls on the planet , the Arab rejection of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was both understandable and reasonable.

I can't recall a situation when the native population eagerly supported their own dispossession and displacement at the hands on recently arrived immigrants from foreign lands with a completely different culture.

Anyone think of where that has ever happened just to give an exception to the rule ?

FYI, a ton of info.

HOME - 1948

Palestine - Israel History

www.1948.org.uk

FYI, a ton of misinformation. The propagandists seem to share your befuddlement about a geographic area. From the “about” section: OUR STATEMENT - 1948

“How was it that one nation, Palestine, which was under the protection of the League of Nations after WW1...”

The Magical Kingdom of Pal’istan was one nation?

When did that happen?

Palestine’s legal position under International Law was clear: The United Kingdom was mandated Palestine in one piece. Article 5 of the Mandate required the Mandatory Power (the UK) to ensure that "no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way, placed under the control of the government of any foreign power".

Partition and the Law - 1948

www.1948.org.uk

During the term of the Mandate for Palestine, that was the case. You failed to notice that the Mandate ended at midnight on 14 May, 1948. The Mandate did not / does not extend in perpetuity.

Cutting and pasting a snippet from a blog without understanding the greater context (or intending to mislead about that context), is a failed argument.

When the Mandate ended, there were no lingering requirements that survived the ending of the Mandate.

When the Mandate ended, there were no lingering requirements that survived the ending of the Mandate.

Statehood, citizenship, and basic rights are preserved by international law without the requirement of a mandate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hello fellow posters,

We seem to be straying away from the point of this thread.
It is turning into the thread which used to be available at the top about the two state solution.

I found this thread still available where post 1948 can be discussed. Let us all meet there:

Majority of Palestinians now oppose two-state solution, new poll finds

A clear majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip oppose a two-state solution to end their struggle with Israel, according to a poll released on Wednesday. Sixty percent of those polled, including 55% in the West Bank and 68% in Gaza, reject permanently accepting Israel’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

As for self determination for the Arabs pre 1948, we can all discuss the 1937 and 1947 proposals for partition of what was left of the Mandate for Palestine after 78% was given to the Hashemites, and whether the Arab leaders were looking for what was the best for the Arab population or if they were looking for something else.

Were the Arab leaders looking for Justice for the Arabs who lived there at the time, or were they looking for something else altogether?

What happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and before Israel declared Independence?

How could the Arab leaders have helped the Arab population achieve self determination from 1920 on ?

Did the Arab leaders actions, since 1920, help or hinder the aspirations of two states, one Jewish and one Arab? Was there such an aspiration before May 1948?

Well , what we can be sure of is that , given the lack of crystal balls on the planet , the Arab rejection of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was both understandable and reasonable.

I can't recall a situation when the native population eagerly supported their own dispossession and displacement at the hands on recently arrived immigrants from foreign lands with a completely different culture.

Anyone think of where that has ever happened just to give an exception to the rule ?

I do not know where you read or heard that the Arab Palestinians are the native population of Canaan. If so, that means that most of its history did not happen, and that Christianity did not come out of what happened there either.

You start with a false premise, pushed by the Arabs Muslims themselves since 1973, as they could not destroy Israel with any military attacks.

The Quran itself tells of the Jews being there as the native population when the Arabs' ancestors invaded the land. It was not until losing the 1948 to the Jews and the creation of Israel that some Arab leaders began to misinform the public and their own population, telling them that the Palestinians, who only became a nationlized people, in 1964, after Arafat .....with the Soviet KGB, came up with that idea.

The Arab leader, the Grand Mufti, tells how the Jews did not invade and dispossess any Arabs, but bought lands that no one wanted. Tel Aviv was built on one such land, which had been nothing but unwanted swamp.

The Mufti tells the truth: The Arabs sold the land to the Jews

The Mufti tells the truth: The Arabs sold the land to the Jews The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj al-Amin al-Husseini, will never be accused ...

middleeastfacts2015.blogspot.com

-----------
Yes, the Arab Muslims have been a totally foreign body on the land, since the 7th century, with a totally different religion and a totally different culture and language.

But there was nothing that unarmed Jews and others living there at the time could do then, or later.
Not until the end of the 19th century.

Why?

Because of endless pogroms against the Jews.

Check the Pogrom which happened in Damascus in the 19th century.

When any people, in groups or just families, from anywhere in the world go and live somewhere else, it does not make the new place their indigenous, native place.

Where the Jews came from, the land of Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestine, always was and continues to be their departing place and the place where they have every right to return to, as they made it their home for over 3000 years.

As to the Palestinians, their parting place is Arabia.
That is where they are indigenous from, no matter when they left.

I will ask again, what happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and in 1947?

Yes, the Arab Muslims have been a totally foreign body on the land, since the 7th century, with a totally different religion and a totally different culture and language.

Are you implying that in the 7th century every native of Palestine moved out and an entirely new population of Arab Muslims moved in?

Can't tell when Muslims are constantly murdering each other and everyone else.

Thank you Mr. Irrelevant.

 

[Indeependent]

Hello fellow posters,

We seem to be straying away from the point of this thread.
It is turning into the thread which used to be available at the top about the two state solution.

I found this thread still available where post 1948 can be discussed. Let us all meet there:

Majority of Palestinians now oppose two-state solution, new poll finds

A clear majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip oppose a two-state solution to end their struggle with Israel, according to a poll released on Wednesday. Sixty percent of those polled, including 55% in the West Bank and 68% in Gaza, reject permanently accepting Israel’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

As for self determination for the Arabs pre 1948, we can all discuss the 1937 and 1947 proposals for partition of what was left of the Mandate for Palestine after 78% was given to the Hashemites, and whether the Arab leaders were looking for what was the best for the Arab population or if they were looking for something else.

Were the Arab leaders looking for Justice for the Arabs who lived there at the time, or were they looking for something else altogether?

What happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and before Israel declared Independence?

How could the Arab leaders have helped the Arab population achieve self determination from 1920 on ?

Did the Arab leaders actions, since 1920, help or hinder the aspirations of two states, one Jewish and one Arab? Was there such an aspiration before May 1948?

Well , what we can be sure of is that , given the lack of crystal balls on the planet , the Arab rejection of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was both understandable and reasonable.

I can't recall a situation when the native population eagerly supported their own dispossession and displacement at the hands on recently arrived immigrants from foreign lands with a completely different culture.

Anyone think of where that has ever happened just to give an exception to the rule ?

I do not know where you read or heard that the Arab Palestinians are the native population of Canaan. If so, that means that most of its history did not happen, and that Christianity did not come out of what happened there either.

You start with a false premise, pushed by the Arabs Muslims themselves since 1973, as they could not destroy Israel with any military attacks.

The Quran itself tells of the Jews being there as the native population when the Arabs' ancestors invaded the land. It was not until losing the 1948 to the Jews and the creation of Israel that some Arab leaders began to misinform the public and their own population, telling them that the Palestinians, who only became a nationlized people, in 1964, after Arafat .....with the Soviet KGB, came up with that idea.

The Arab leader, the Grand Mufti, tells how the Jews did not invade and dispossess any Arabs, but bought lands that no one wanted. Tel Aviv was built on one such land, which had been nothing but unwanted swamp.

The Mufti tells the truth: The Arabs sold the land to the Jews

The Mufti tells the truth: The Arabs sold the land to the Jews The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj al-Amin al-Husseini, will never be accused ...

middleeastfacts2015.blogspot.com

-----------
Yes, the Arab Muslims have been a totally foreign body on the land, since the 7th century, with a totally different religion and a totally different culture and language.

But there was nothing that unarmed Jews and others living there at the time could do then, or later.
Not until the end of the 19th century.

Why?

Because of endless pogroms against the Jews.

Check the Pogrom which happened in Damascus in the 19th century.

When any people, in groups or just families, from anywhere in the world go and live somewhere else, it does not make the new place their indigenous, native place.

Where the Jews came from, the land of Canaan, Israel, Judea, Palestine, always was and continues to be their departing place and the place where they have every right to return to, as they made it their home for over 3000 years.

As to the Palestinians, their parting place is Arabia.
That is where they are indigenous from, no matter when they left.

I will ask again, what happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and in 1947?

Yes, the Arab Muslims have been a totally foreign body on the land, since the 7th century, with a totally different religion and a totally different culture and language.

Are you implying that in the 7th century every native of Palestine moved out and an entirely new population of Arab Muslims moved in?

Can't tell when Muslims are constantly murdering each other and everyone else.

Thank you Mr. Irrelevant.

Why are you posting to yourself?
Speaking of irrelevant, when are you going to show some balls and actually visit the region?

 

[Hollie]

You employed the racistcanard on queue.

As to the Arabs-Moslems working to form a civil government, why don’t you consider some overseas outreach and become a mediator to resolve the divides that separate the competing mini-caliphates? I treat the competing mini-caliphates as separate and antagonist entities because that’s how they view each other. You do know they fought a rather nasty civil war that left bodies littering the streets, right?

Odd you should suggest that the Pals might be able to form a unified assembly/parliament. With the PNA / PLO / PLC being something of a model for fraud, waste and mismanagement and the quasi sharia / Islamic terrorist hierarchy in Gaza’istan, your comment suggesting that the Islamic terrorists at the top of the welfare fraud food chain will form a workable government is rather silly. Why haven’t they done so already, (note-please don't feel a need to litter the thread with the expected conspiracy theories involving the Great Satan, the Zionist Entity and the Brits.)

You’re hoping to exploit a conspiracy theory about Jews, money foreign invaders and something about “criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land”. Those are all the stereotypical conspiracy theories and canards that get tossed around so I have to ask if you’re willing or able to actually form a coherent argument?

What do you think would happen if, as you suggest, everyone took the welfare money out of the hands of the Arabs-Moslems?

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves it reeks of racism. It was the mainstay of the white mans burden throughout their subjugation of the peoples of the world in their ages of empire. So if you got called out on posing the same racist claptrap here, you got what you deserved imo.

Not only do I know that the Fatah and Hamas factions fought the Battle of Gaza ,I know what was behind it and that falls into the divide an conquer tactics used by the usual suspects.What you foolishly refer to as conspiracy theory is actually the tried and tested means virtually all conflicts/empires are structured. That you wish to see it as a fantasy only shows how out of touch you are.

The criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land is real and easily understood for those that view different peoples as being equal wrt rights .

If the foreigh donors stopped their money supply then the whole greater Israel project ( an possibly Israel itself ) would start to unravel and the dire situation of the Palestinians would be impossible for the world to ignore the way it does. I'm not advocating it because of the suffering it would cause but that's what I think would happen.

Israel, as the occupying power, is getting away from the financial burden of that occupation. As an occupier it would and should be resoponsible for the welfare of the people it occupies.

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves because certain peoples have shown no ability yo govern themselves, it means that that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves.

The silly racism slogan is timewasting. If you’re going to litter every post with the silly racism slogan, try first presenting a coherent argument.

Second, why retreat to silly conspiracy theories as a vehicle to excuse the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war? Your retreat to the silly divide and conquer tactics is just another tired cliché.

Your next slogan is the criminal exploitation canard. It’s another slogan that you can’t define, explain or provide support for. That’s, umm, you know. racist

Your next slogan is the “if the foreign donors (who you can’t define) stopped their money supply, Israel would collapse”, slogan. Well, actually no.

Israel Economy Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

What “occupation” are you referring to? What sovereign territory of either the Abbas or the Hamas mini-caliphate is occupied by Israel?

To not factor in the outside influences and the Israeli domination of the Palestinians , including their political life, into the equation of what we see in the OPTs is just plain ridiculous.

To refer to the dynamics of the divide and conquer concept as " conspiracy theory " is wholly vacuous.

The occupied territories consist of East Jerusalem , Gaza and the WB............you know , the territories they have voted at the UNGA every November for the last 35 ? years

Your comments are ripe with fallacies. You use the term “IsraelI domination” but you don’t define what that means. I’ll try and do that for you. If you are referring to IsraelI control of their borders and means and methods used to suppress gee-had attacks, you will need to explain the consequences to IsraelI citizens if those controls were not in place. The Israelis are bordered by insensately angry, Arab-Moslem barbarians with a 1,400 year old, religiously sanctioned, stated goal to wipe Israel from the map. There’s not a lot of room for negotiation with such an ideology.

All societies have “outside influences”. Some societies, Hong Kong, South Vietnam, South Korea we’re able to thrive and prosper despite “outside influences”. There are differences, of course. None of the societies noted above are shackled by religious totalitarianism and including other factors that allow some to rise above difficult circumstances while others wallow in their own failures and ineptitudes.

I note that the “divide and conquer” conspiracy theory was a part of your post. I responded to that with the label “conspiracy theory” because it was a canard dumped into the thread with no relevant detail, much like the racist slogan.

UNGA opinions are toothless commentary and don’t address how territory never under sovereign control of the Arabs-Moslems somehow becomes ‘occupied” by Israel as opposed to territory that is claimed as waqf by a long-dead desert Arab warlord. We could get into a lovely discussion of the laughable political circus that the UN has evolved into so consider sending a strongly worded email with your objections to the UN Human Rights Commission when Iran, the KSA, Yemen and other Islamic theocratic totalitarian dystopias will be a willing audience.

 

[Hollie]

You employed the racistcanard on queue.

As to the Arabs-Moslems working to form a civil government, why don’t you consider some overseas outreach and become a mediator to resolve the divides that separate the competing mini-caliphates? I treat the competing mini-caliphates as separate and antagonist entities because that’s how they view each other. You do know they fought a rather nasty civil war that left bodies littering the streets, right?

Odd you should suggest that the Pals might be able to form a unified assembly/parliament. With the PNA / PLO / PLC being something of a model for fraud, waste and mismanagement and the quasi sharia / Islamic terrorist hierarchy in Gaza’istan, your comment suggesting that the Islamic terrorists at the top of the welfare fraud food chain will form a workable government is rather silly. Why haven’t they done so already, (note-please don't feel a need to litter the thread with the expected conspiracy theories involving the Great Satan, the Zionist Entity and the Brits.)

You’re hoping to exploit a conspiracy theory about Jews, money foreign invaders and something about “criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land”. Those are all the stereotypical conspiracy theories and canards that get tossed around so I have to ask if you’re willing or able to actually form a coherent argument?

What do you think would happen if, as you suggest, everyone took the welfare money out of the hands of the Arabs-Moslems?

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves it reeks of racism. It was the mainstay of the white mans burden throughout their subjugation of the peoples of the world in their ages of empire. So if you got called out on posing the same racist claptrap here, you got what you deserved imo.

Not only do I know that the Fatah and Hamas factions fought the Battle of Gaza ,I know what was behind it and that falls into the divide an conquer tactics used by the usual suspects.What you foolishly refer to as conspiracy theory is actually the tried and tested means virtually all conflicts/empires are structured. That you wish to see it as a fantasy only shows how out of touch you are.

The criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land is real and easily understood for those that view different peoples as being equal wrt rights .

If the foreigh donors stopped their money supply then the whole greater Israel project ( an possibly Israel itself ) would start to unravel and the dire situation of the Palestinians would be impossible for the world to ignore the way it does. I'm not advocating it because of the suffering it would cause but that's what I think would happen.

Israel, as the occupying power, is getting away from the financial burden of that occupation. As an occupier it would and should be resoponsible for the welfare of the people it occupies.

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves because certain peoples have shown no ability yo govern themselves, it means that that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves.

The silly racism slogan is timewasting. If you’re going to litter every post with the silly racism slogan, try first presenting a coherent argument.

Second, why retreat to silly conspiracy theories as a vehicle to excuse the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war? Your retreat to the silly divide and conquer tactics is just another tired cliché.

Your next slogan is the criminal exploitation canard. It’s another slogan that you can’t define, explain or provide support for. That’s, umm, you know. racist

Your next slogan is the “if the foreign donors (who you can’t define) stopped their money supply, Israel would collapse”, slogan. Well, actually no.

Israel Economy Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

What “occupation” are you referring to? What sovereign territory of either the Abbas or the Hamas mini-caliphate is occupied by Israel?

the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war?

You post this a lot but you don't know anything about it.

I post that because it’s a relevant fact. I notice you don’t proceed beyond your usual, silly, one-liners suggesting you don’t know anything about it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You employed the racistcanard on queue.

As to the Arabs-Moslems working to form a civil government, why don’t you consider some overseas outreach and become a mediator to resolve the divides that separate the competing mini-caliphates? I treat the competing mini-caliphates as separate and antagonist entities because that’s how they view each other. You do know they fought a rather nasty civil war that left bodies littering the streets, right?

Odd you should suggest that the Pals might be able to form a unified assembly/parliament. With the PNA / PLO / PLC being something of a model for fraud, waste and mismanagement and the quasi sharia / Islamic terrorist hierarchy in Gaza’istan, your comment suggesting that the Islamic terrorists at the top of the welfare fraud food chain will form a workable government is rather silly. Why haven’t they done so already, (note-please don't feel a need to litter the thread with the expected conspiracy theories involving the Great Satan, the Zionist Entity and the Brits.)

You’re hoping to exploit a conspiracy theory about Jews, money foreign invaders and something about “criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land”. Those are all the stereotypical conspiracy theories and canards that get tossed around so I have to ask if you’re willing or able to actually form a coherent argument?

What do you think would happen if, as you suggest, everyone took the welfare money out of the hands of the Arabs-Moslems?

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves it reeks of racism. It was the mainstay of the white mans burden throughout their subjugation of the peoples of the world in their ages of empire. So if you got called out on posing the same racist claptrap here, you got what you deserved imo.

Not only do I know that the Fatah and Hamas factions fought the Battle of Gaza ,I know what was behind it and that falls into the divide an conquer tactics used by the usual suspects.What you foolishly refer to as conspiracy theory is actually the tried and tested means virtually all conflicts/empires are structured. That you wish to see it as a fantasy only shows how out of touch you are.

The criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land is real and easily understood for those that view different peoples as being equal wrt rights .

If the foreigh donors stopped their money supply then the whole greater Israel project ( an possibly Israel itself ) would start to unravel and the dire situation of the Palestinians would be impossible for the world to ignore the way it does. I'm not advocating it because of the suffering it would cause but that's what I think would happen.

Israel, as the occupying power, is getting away from the financial burden of that occupation. As an occupier it would and should be resoponsible for the welfare of the people it occupies.

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves because certain peoples have shown no ability yo govern themselves, it means that that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves.

The silly racism slogan is timewasting. If you’re going to litter every post with the silly racism slogan, try first presenting a coherent argument.

Second, why retreat to silly conspiracy theories as a vehicle to excuse the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war? Your retreat to the silly divide and conquer tactics is just another tired cliché.

Your next slogan is the criminal exploitation canard. It’s another slogan that you can’t define, explain or provide support for. That’s, umm, you know. racist

Your next slogan is the “if the foreign donors (who you can’t define) stopped their money supply, Israel would collapse”, slogan. Well, actually no.

Israel Economy Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

What “occupation” are you referring to? What sovereign territory of either the Abbas or the Hamas mini-caliphate is occupied by Israel?

the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war?

You post this a lot but you don't know anything about it.

I post that because it’s a relevant fact. I notice you don’t proceed beyond your usual, silly, one-liners suggesting you don’t know anything about it.

Do you know it started with Oslo?

Of course not.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Commissioners hoped the ‘clean cut’ would solve two crises: that of Palestine and of Europe’s Jews. If the Arabs could help bring a ‘final solution’ to Europe’s ‘Jewish problem’ (the drafters could not have known the cruel irony of their wording) they would earn not just the Jews’ gratitude but humanity’s. ‘Numberless men and women all over the world would feel a sense of deep relief if somehow an end could be put to strife and bloodshed in a thrice hallowed land.’[lxiv]

The next day His Majesty’s Government endorsed the report’s main principles.

The Arabs would obtain their national independence, and thus be enabled to co-operate on an equal footing with the Arabs of neighbouring countries in the cause of Arab unity and progress … It would convert the Jewish National Home into a Jewish State with full control over immigration … The Jews would at last cease to live a ‘minority life,’ and the primary objective of Zionism would thus be attained … both peoples would obtain, in the words of the Commission, ‘the inestimable boon of peace.’[lxv]

The world’s preeminent power now backed a two-state solution to the Jewish-Arab dispute over the Holy Land.

(full article online)

Mandate100 | ‘A Clean Cut’ for Palestine: The Peel Commission Reexamined

In this fascinating dive into the archives Oren Kessler reveals the dramatic exchanges that shaped Lord Peel’s 1936 proposal to partition Mandate Palestine. Kessler examines testimony given to the R...

fathomjournal.org

 

[Hollie]

You employed the racistcanard on queue.

As to the Arabs-Moslems working to form a civil government, why don’t you consider some overseas outreach and become a mediator to resolve the divides that separate the competing mini-caliphates? I treat the competing mini-caliphates as separate and antagonist entities because that’s how they view each other. You do know they fought a rather nasty civil war that left bodies littering the streets, right?

Odd you should suggest that the Pals might be able to form a unified assembly/parliament. With the PNA / PLO / PLC being something of a model for fraud, waste and mismanagement and the quasi sharia / Islamic terrorist hierarchy in Gaza’istan, your comment suggesting that the Islamic terrorists at the top of the welfare fraud food chain will form a workable government is rather silly. Why haven’t they done so already, (note-please don't feel a need to litter the thread with the expected conspiracy theories involving the Great Satan, the Zionist Entity and the Brits.)

You’re hoping to exploit a conspiracy theory about Jews, money foreign invaders and something about “criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land”. Those are all the stereotypical conspiracy theories and canards that get tossed around so I have to ask if you’re willing or able to actually form a coherent argument?

What do you think would happen if, as you suggest, everyone took the welfare money out of the hands of the Arabs-Moslems?

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves it reeks of racism. It was the mainstay of the white mans burden throughout their subjugation of the peoples of the world in their ages of empire. So if you got called out on posing the same racist claptrap here, you got what you deserved imo.

Not only do I know that the Fatah and Hamas factions fought the Battle of Gaza ,I know what was behind it and that falls into the divide an conquer tactics used by the usual suspects.What you foolishly refer to as conspiracy theory is actually the tried and tested means virtually all conflicts/empires are structured. That you wish to see it as a fantasy only shows how out of touch you are.

The criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land is real and easily understood for those that view different peoples as being equal wrt rights .

If the foreigh donors stopped their money supply then the whole greater Israel project ( an possibly Israel itself ) would start to unravel and the dire situation of the Palestinians would be impossible for the world to ignore the way it does. I'm not advocating it because of the suffering it would cause but that's what I think would happen.

Israel, as the occupying power, is getting away from the financial burden of that occupation. As an occupier it would and should be resoponsible for the welfare of the people it occupies.

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves because certain peoples have shown no ability yo govern themselves, it means that that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves.

The silly racism slogan is timewasting. If you’re going to litter every post with the silly racism slogan, try first presenting a coherent argument.

Second, why retreat to silly conspiracy theories as a vehicle to excuse the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war? Your retreat to the silly divide and conquer tactics is just another tired cliché.

Your next slogan is the criminal exploitation canard. It’s another slogan that you can’t define, explain or provide support for. That’s, umm, you know. racist

Your next slogan is the “if the foreign donors (who you can’t define) stopped their money supply, Israel would collapse”, slogan. Well, actually no.

Israel Economy Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

What “occupation” are you referring to? What sovereign territory of either the Abbas or the Hamas mini-caliphate is occupied by Israel?

the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war?

You post this a lot but you don't know anything about it.

I post that because it’s a relevant fact. I notice you don’t proceed beyond your usual, silly, one-liners suggesting you don’t know anything about it.

Do you know it started with Oslo?

Of course not.

Do you know you’re wrong?

Of course not. Your usual slogan dump and then bail.

 

[Hollie]

Hello fellow posters,

We seem to be straying away from the point of this thread.
It is turning into the thread which used to be available at the top about the two state solution.

I found this thread still available where post 1948 can be discussed. Let us all meet there:

Majority of Palestinians now oppose two-state solution, new poll finds

A clear majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip oppose a two-state solution to end their struggle with Israel, according to a poll released on Wednesday. Sixty percent of those polled, including 55% in the West Bank and 68% in Gaza, reject permanently accepting Israel’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

As for self determination for the Arabs pre 1948, we can all discuss the 1937 and 1947 proposals for partition of what was left of the Mandate for Palestine after 78% was given to the Hashemites, and whether the Arab leaders were looking for what was the best for the Arab population or if they were looking for something else.

Were the Arab leaders looking for Justice for the Arabs who lived there at the time, or were they looking for something else altogether?

What happened in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936 to 1939 and before Israel declared Independence?

How could the Arab leaders have helped the Arab population achieve self determination from 1920 on ?

Did the Arab leaders actions, since 1920, help or hinder the aspirations of two states, one Jewish and one Arab? Was there such an aspiration before May 1948?

Well , what we can be sure of is that , given the lack of crystal balls on the planet , the Arab rejection of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was both understandable and reasonable.

I can't recall a situation when the native population eagerly supported their own dispossession and displacement at the hands on recently arrived immigrants from foreign lands with a completely different culture.

Anyone think of where that has ever happened just to give an exception to the rule ?

FYI, a ton of info.

HOME - 1948

Palestine - Israel History

www.1948.org.uk

FYI, a ton of misinformation. The propagandists seem to share your befuddlement about a geographic area. From the “about” section: OUR STATEMENT - 1948

“How was it that one nation, Palestine, which was under the protection of the League of Nations after WW1...”

The Magical Kingdom of Pal’istan was one nation?

When did that happen?

Palestine’s legal position under International Law was clear: The United Kingdom was mandated Palestine in one piece. Article 5 of the Mandate required the Mandatory Power (the UK) to ensure that "no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way, placed under the control of the government of any foreign power".

Partition and the Law - 1948

www.1948.org.uk

During the term of the Mandate for Palestine, that was the case. You failed to notice that the Mandate ended at midnight on 14 May, 1948. The Mandate did not / does not extend in perpetuity.

Cutting and pasting a snippet from a blog without understanding the greater context (or intending to mislead about that context), is a failed argument.

When the Mandate ended, there were no lingering requirements that survived the ending of the Mandate.

When the Mandate ended, there were no lingering requirements that survived the ending of the Mandate.

Statehood, citizenship, and basic rights are preserved by international law without the requirement of a mandate.

You still don’t understand there was no “state of Pally’land” thus no citizenship. The Arabs-Moslems refused any action that would have allowed them participation in self-determination. No one denied any rights to the Arabs-Moslems.

You spend your every waking moment blaming others for your failures.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You employed the racistcanard on queue.

As to the Arabs-Moslems working to form a civil government, why don’t you consider some overseas outreach and become a mediator to resolve the divides that separate the competing mini-caliphates? I treat the competing mini-caliphates as separate and antagonist entities because that’s how they view each other. You do know they fought a rather nasty civil war that left bodies littering the streets, right?

Odd you should suggest that the Pals might be able to form a unified assembly/parliament. With the PNA / PLO / PLC being something of a model for fraud, waste and mismanagement and the quasi sharia / Islamic terrorist hierarchy in Gaza’istan, your comment suggesting that the Islamic terrorists at the top of the welfare fraud food chain will form a workable government is rather silly. Why haven’t they done so already, (note-please don't feel a need to litter the thread with the expected conspiracy theories involving the Great Satan, the Zionist Entity and the Brits.)

You’re hoping to exploit a conspiracy theory about Jews, money foreign invaders and something about “criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land”. Those are all the stereotypical conspiracy theories and canards that get tossed around so I have to ask if you’re willing or able to actually form a coherent argument?

What do you think would happen if, as you suggest, everyone took the welfare money out of the hands of the Arabs-Moslems?

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves it reeks of racism. It was the mainstay of the white mans burden throughout their subjugation of the peoples of the world in their ages of empire. So if you got called out on posing the same racist claptrap here, you got what you deserved imo.

Not only do I know that the Fatah and Hamas factions fought the Battle of Gaza ,I know what was behind it and that falls into the divide an conquer tactics used by the usual suspects.What you foolishly refer to as conspiracy theory is actually the tried and tested means virtually all conflicts/empires are structured. That you wish to see it as a fantasy only shows how out of touch you are.

The criminal exploitation of the Palestinians and their land is real and easily understood for those that view different peoples as being equal wrt rights .

If the foreigh donors stopped their money supply then the whole greater Israel project ( an possibly Israel itself ) would start to unravel and the dire situation of the Palestinians would be impossible for the world to ignore the way it does. I'm not advocating it because of the suffering it would cause but that's what I think would happen.

Israel, as the occupying power, is getting away from the financial burden of that occupation. As an occupier it would and should be resoponsible for the welfare of the people it occupies.

When people say that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves because certain peoples have shown no ability yo govern themselves, it means that that certain peoples are not able to govern themselves.

The silly racism slogan is timewasting. If you’re going to litter every post with the silly racism slogan, try first presenting a coherent argument.

Second, why retreat to silly conspiracy theories as a vehicle to excuse the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war? Your retreat to the silly divide and conquer tactics is just another tired cliché.

Your next slogan is the criminal exploitation canard. It’s another slogan that you can’t define, explain or provide support for. That’s, umm, you know. racist

Your next slogan is the “if the foreign donors (who you can’t define) stopped their money supply, Israel would collapse”, slogan. Well, actually no.

Israel Economy Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

What “occupation” are you referring to? What sovereign territory of either the Abbas or the Hamas mini-caliphate is occupied by Israel?

the tribal warfare that was an underlying cause of the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war?

You post this a lot but you don't know anything about it.

I post that because it’s a relevant fact. I notice you don’t proceed beyond your usual, silly, one-liners suggesting you don’t know anything about it.

Do you know it started with Oslo?

Of course not.

Do you know you’re wrong?

Of course not. Your usual slogan dump and then bail.

Obviously you never read Oslo.