The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

Coyote

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This thread was created in order to attempt to fix the significant derailment of another thread without having to delete posts.

The topic of this thread is one that comes up with regularity in IP, and is also a frequent derailer of active threads so it will now have a thread of it's own which will be pinned as a "stickie".


I apologize ahead of time for the bumpy discontinuous beginnig of this, but I think it will smooth out as discussion goes on.

The topic is: The history involving the creation of Israel, the British Mandate, and the applicable actions of the UN in that history.
 

flacaltenn

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The older version of this thread needed to be REBOOTED.. It still exists as sticky thread, but too many off topic battles have been waged in it.. SAME purpose as Coyote explains above for THIS thread. To be exact, nothing beyond the '67 war and the resulting redrawn boundaries should EVER be a topic here..

And this thread is not for "comparative religion" or bigotry against ANY religion or people..

Do not derail any other thread topics in this forum with arguments about ancient history or origins of borders and nation in this region.. Put it here...

 

RetiredGySgt

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Ahh yes Israel EXISTS as a Sovereign Nation and no amount of complaining from the Arabs or the Jew haters in the West can change the fact that the UN RECOGNIZED Israel as did most civilized Nation States. After they were created every Arab Nation attacked them and tried in vain to kill all the Jews. Yet Israel prevailed then and now.
 

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The Hundred Year War in Palestine

Columbia University’s Rashid Khalidi Is Secure in His Anti-Semitism

Khalid.....A man who says that the British and other powers were colonial powers.

But......wait......what were the Ottoman Turks ? Indigenous people of the land? For 800 years ?

By all means, deny the indigenous state of the Jewish people and their right to live and reconstitute their Nation ON their ancient homeland.

But the Turks were ok, and it does not matter that the Arabs never cried wolf against that power for all the centuries they were there, taking over from the Crusaders what the Arabs had taken from the Byzantine in the 7th Century.

Yes, to some people who can give speeches and make money off of it, their Arab fellows are "victims" of the indigenous people of the land, but were never victims of the powerful Ottoman Empire.

Ottomans = Muslims. So it is ok to have them as Muslim masters.

Israel = Jews . It is never ok to have Jews be sovereign over Muslims, and especially Arabs.

THAT is the history of the endless attacks on Jews by rioting Arabs from 1920 until 1948. Why all the Arab Muslim Countries attacked Israel after it declared Independence. Why they attacked Israel two more times to destroy it. Why there continues the endless war of Muslims against Jews on their right to recreate their Nation, be free and safe in it.

Jews, masters of their own destiny?
No, it is not allowed in the ideology fabricated by Islam.

So, is Khalid telling the truth? Did the Arabs, before 1964, ever call themselves Palestinians, or cared to be called Palestinians?
Is there an "Ancient Palestine" ?

Why does Khalid distort everything, from the Balfour Declaration to today's on going war on the Jews, as if the Arabs ever had a longer standing history on the land?

Why does he turn Zionism into something ugly, instead of simply what it was? A natural consequence to endless Muslim and Christian attacks on Jews and endless non acceptance of Jews as beings as humans as those in those two religions ?

It does take knowledge of the issues to understand the history of the area for the past 100 years.

Khalid is gambling on the audience's ignorance of what he says, telling some semi truths, distorting all the rest.

Oh, the poor, poor Palestinians, who had their "homeland" stolen by total strangers, totally devoid of any history on that land, because it has always been what? .......Palestinian Land.
Regardless of all of the historical and archeological evidence to the contrary and that the Jews are not from Europe, and therefore not colonizers as he attempts to make them........his speech does sell very well to those who know absolutely nothing about it.
Or could not care less.

Muslims are very good at stealing. Arabs have been very good at stealing land since they got out of Arabia in the 7th Century, although the Kurds were the first to invade and take the land from the Byzantine Empire.

But, never mind what history really is. What matters is keeping any land conquered by any Muslim, in the hands of ANY Muslims.
 

P F Tinmore

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RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't know that it can be made any planer than that. The use of the military of any nation is to accomplish a political and diplomatic objective. The use of the military is a tool in the box of tradecraft.

Article 5 Mandate for Palestine

The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.

Article 12 Mandate for Palestine

The Mandatory shall be entrusted with the control of the foreign relations of Palestine and the right to issue exequaturs to consuls appointed by foreign Powers. He shall also be entitled to afford diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine when outside its territorial limit.

Article 17 Mandate for Palestine

The Administration of Palestine may organise on a voluntary basis the forces necessary for the preservation of peace and order, and also for the defence of the country, subject, however, to the supervision of the Mandatory, but shall not use them for purposes other than those above specified save with the consent of the Mandatory. Except for such purposes, no military, naval or air forces shall be raised or maintained by the Administration of Palestine.

Nothing in this article shall preclude the Administration of Palestine from contributing to the cost of the maintenance of the forces of the Mandatory in Palestine.

The Mandatory shall be entitled at all times to use the roads; railways and ports of Palestine for the movement of armed forces and the carriage of fuel and supplies.

The Hashemite Royal Family had demonstrated the ability to productively form a government and establish a civil administration. This was something that the Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River were unable to accomplish.
Under the boot of Britain's military. You are ducking the question as usual.

Why would Britain need military forces to render administrative assistance and advice as prescribed in the LoN covenant?
(COMMENT)

I cannot begin to teach you about the role of the military in the diplomacy of a century ago. Different countries administer their holding and external obligations in many different ways.

The application of the military in the maintenance of peace and order in jurisdictions just recently released from the status of "Enemy Occupied Territory," except as described in Posting #2579 is based on the conventional wisdom and political perception of the day. While Jordan was Allied Friendly at the time, the general population Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River were not. The Mandate Period was not a typical post-War phase four territorial condition.

PS: I was trying to keep my post in the spirit of the OP. I was not ducking your question. But if the question you ask were as simple as you portray them to be, the solution would have been found already.

Most Respectfully,
R
The question was:

Why would Britain need military forces to render administrative assistance and advice as prescribed in the LoN covenant?​

How much military force is required to establish a post office, monetary system, etc.?
 

Hollie

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RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't know that it can be made any planer than that. The use of the military of any nation is to accomplish a political and diplomatic objective. The use of the military is a tool in the box of tradecraft.

Article 5 Mandate for Palestine

The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.

Article 12 Mandate for Palestine

The Mandatory shall be entrusted with the control of the foreign relations of Palestine and the right to issue exequaturs to consuls appointed by foreign Powers. He shall also be entitled to afford diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine when outside its territorial limit.

Article 17 Mandate for Palestine

The Administration of Palestine may organise on a voluntary basis the forces necessary for the preservation of peace and order, and also for the defence of the country, subject, however, to the supervision of the Mandatory, but shall not use them for purposes other than those above specified save with the consent of the Mandatory. Except for such purposes, no military, naval or air forces shall be raised or maintained by the Administration of Palestine.

Nothing in this article shall preclude the Administration of Palestine from contributing to the cost of the maintenance of the forces of the Mandatory in Palestine.

The Mandatory shall be entitled at all times to use the roads; railways and ports of Palestine for the movement of armed forces and the carriage of fuel and supplies.

The Hashemite Royal Family had demonstrated the ability to productively form a government and establish a civil administration. This was something that the Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River were unable to accomplish.
Under the boot of Britain's military. You are ducking the question as usual.

Why would Britain need military forces to render administrative assistance and advice as prescribed in the LoN covenant?
(COMMENT)

I cannot begin to teach you about the role of the military in the diplomacy of a century ago. Different countries administer their holding and external obligations in many different ways.

The application of the military in the maintenance of peace and order in jurisdictions just recently released from the status of "Enemy Occupied Territory," except as described in Posting #2579 is based on the conventional wisdom and political perception of the day. While Jordan was Allied Friendly at the time, the general population Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River were not. The Mandate Period was not a typical post-War phase four territorial condition.

PS: I was trying to keep my post in the spirit of the OP. I was not ducking your question. But if the question you ask were as simple as you portray them to be, the solution would have been found already.

Most Respectfully,
R
The question was:

Why would Britain need military forces to render administrative assistance and advice as prescribed in the LoN covenant?​

How much military force is required to establish a post office, monetary system, etc.?
When were the British ever tasked with establishing post office, monetary system, etc.?
 

Shusha

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The question was:

Why would Britain need military forces to render administrative assistance and advice as prescribed in the LoN covenant?​

How much military force is required to establish a post office, monetary system, etc.?
No military force is necessary at ALL. Arab Palestinians need to stop using weapons against Israel and Jews and build a state. Not rocket science. But they seem to be utterly incapable of doing so.
 

RoccoR

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RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

It was understood at the time, that these were considered part of the self-governing institutions.

When were the British ever tasked with establishing a post office, monetary system, etc.?
(OBSERVATIONS)

In 1948, there was no internet. In many countries, the Post Office ran all types of communication. For a start-up government (TurnKey Operation), the Mandatory Power had to help Israel to have a seamless transition between what the British were running and its handover to the Israelis.

  • An internationally recognized bank had to be put in place to that there would be an Israeli currency on day one, with an umbilical to the international level exchange.
  • The utilities and transportation system, heretofore paid by the British, had to be reckoned with, so that trains, water, electricity, and shipping could be maintained.
There were actions, behind the scenes, that introduced Israel to these critical function. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate.

The military construction engineers, among many other things, built the Allenby Bridge and many Trestles.

The Military, protected many of the assets that were used to establish powerlines and water systems, that would have been stolen if left to the Arabs.

Then, there were organizations like the Black Hand that needed to be dealt with in a more permanent way.

See: United Nations Palestine Commission during its deliberations from 9 January to 17 May 1948. It will give you a better insight into the meaning of "establishing self-governing institutions."

Most Respectfully,
R
 

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Nobody does Israel any service by proclaiming its “right to exist.” Is- rael’s right to exist, like that of the United States, Saudi Arabia and 152 other states, is axiomatic and unreserved. Israel’s legitimacy is not suspended in midair awaiting acknowledgement . . . There is certainly no other state, big or small, young or old, that would consider mere recognition of its “right to exist” a favor, or a negotiable concession.

—Abba Eban2

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/mf2017.pdf#page=9
 

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MYTH

The Zionists were colonialist tools of Western imperialism.

FACT

“Colonialism means living by exploiting others,” Yehoshafat Harkabi has written. “But what could be further from colonialism than the ide- alism of city-dwelling Jews who strive to become farmers and laborers and to live by their own work?”26

Moreover, as British historian Paul Johnson noted, Zionists were hardly tools of imperialists given the powers’ general opposition to their cause. “Everywhere in the West, the foreign offices, defense min- istries and big business were against the Zionists.”27

Emir Faisal saw the Zionist movement as a companion to the Arab nationalist movement, fighting against imperialism, as he explained in a letter to Harvard law professor and future Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter on March 3, 1919, one day after Chaim Weizmannpresented the Zionist case to the Paris conference. Faisal wrote:

The Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with deep- est sympathy on the Zionist movement . . . We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home . . . We are working together for a reformed and revised Near East and our two movements complete one another. The Jewish movement is nationalist and not imperialist. And there is room in Syria for us both. Indeed, I think that neither can be a real success without the other (emphasis added).28

In the 1940s, the Jewish underground movements waged an an- ticolonial war against the British. The Arabs, meanwhile, were con- cerned primarily with fighting the Jews rather than expelling the British imperialists.


https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/mf2017.pdf#page=9
 

Sixties Fan

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The British promised the Arabs independence in Palestine.

FACT

The central figure in the Arab nationalist movement at the time ofWorld War I was Hussein ibn ‘Ali, the Sherif of Mecca in 1908. As Sherif, Hussein was responsible for the custody of Islam’s shrines in the Hejaz and was one of the Muslims’ spiritual leaders.

In July 1915, Hussein sent a letter to Sir Henry MacMahon, the High Commissioner for Egypt, informing him of the terms for Arab partici- pation in the war against the Turks. The letters between Hussein and MacMahon that followed outlined the areas that Britain was prepared to cede to the Arabs in exchange for their help.

The Hussein-MacMahon correspondence conspicuously fails to mention Palestine. The British argued the omission had been inten- tional, thereby justifying their refusal to grant the Arabs indepen- dence in Palestine after the war.29 MacMahon explained:

I feel it my duty to state, and I do so definitely and emphati- cally, that it was not intended by me in giving this pledge to King Hussein to include Palestine in the area in which Arab independence was promised. I also had every reason to be- lieve at the time that the fact that Palestine was not included in my pledge was well understood by King Hussein.30

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/mf2017.pdf#page=9


[ Just a reminder that the 99% which the Arabs got was NOT their indigenous homeland. It was territory they invaded from the 7th century CE on like...... Lebanon (Phonecians) , Syria (Assyrians) and Iraq (Babylonians, Kurds, Yazidis) where none of the indigenous people were neither offered, not got any piece of land to reconstitute into their own modern State or country .
Why is it that only the Arabs, who were invaders for 13 centuries, were accorded a Mandate and countries out of Ottoman conquered land? Not even the Copts from Egypt were accorded any land in their ancestral Egypt to become an independent State or country, even if Egypt was not part of the Four Mandates created after WWI ]
 

P F Tinmore

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RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

It was understood at the time, that these were considered part of the self-governing institutions.

When were the British ever tasked with establishing a post office, monetary system, etc.?
(OBSERVATIONS)

In 1948, there was no internet. In many countries, the Post Office ran all types of communication. For a start-up government (TurnKey Operation), the Mandatory Power had to help Israel to have a seamless transition between what the British were running and its handover to the Israelis.

  • An internationally recognized bank had to be put in place to that there would be an Israeli currency on day one, with an umbilical to the international level exchange.
  • The utilities and transportation system, heretofore paid by the British, had to be reckoned with, so that trains, water, electricity, and shipping could be maintained.
There were actions, behind the scenes, that introduced Israel to these critical function. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate.

The military construction engineers, among many other things, built the Allenby Bridge and many Trestles.

The Military, protected many of the assets that were used to establish powerlines and water systems, that would have been stolen if left to the Arabs.

Then, there were organizations like the Black Hand that needed to be dealt with in a more permanent way.

See: United Nations Palestine Commission during its deliberations from 9 January to 17 May 1948. It will give you a better insight into the meaning of "establishing self-governing institutions."

Most Respectfully,
R
How much military force is required to establish a post office, monetary system, etc.?

I was only using these as examples. Palestine was a functioning society. They had districts centered around population centers and local governments. The only thing they needed were some national institutions, like a post office, for example. Britain had its occu...er...ahh...Mandate for thirty years and created nothing. The Palestinians would have been better off without the administrative assistance and advice of the British.
 

Shusha

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RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

It was understood at the time, that these were considered part of the self-governing institutions.

When were the British ever tasked with establishing a post office, monetary system, etc.?
(OBSERVATIONS)

In 1948, there was no internet. In many countries, the Post Office ran all types of communication. For a start-up government (TurnKey Operation), the Mandatory Power had to help Israel to have a seamless transition between what the British were running and its handover to the Israelis.

  • An internationally recognized bank had to be put in place to that there would be an Israeli currency on day one, with an umbilical to the international level exchange.
  • The utilities and transportation system, heretofore paid by the British, had to be reckoned with, so that trains, water, electricity, and shipping could be maintained.
There were actions, behind the scenes, that introduced Israel to these critical function. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate.

The military construction engineers, among many other things, built the Allenby Bridge and many Trestles.

The Military, protected many of the assets that were used to establish powerlines and water systems, that would have been stolen if left to the Arabs.

Then, there were organizations like the Black Hand that needed to be dealt with in a more permanent way.

See: United Nations Palestine Commission during its deliberations from 9 January to 17 May 1948. It will give you a better insight into the meaning of "establishing self-governing institutions."

Most Respectfully,
R
How much military force is required to establish a post office, monetary system, etc.?

I was only using these as examples. Palestine was a functioning society. They had districts centered around population centers and local governments. The only thing they needed were some national institutions, like a post office, for example. Britain had its occu...er...ahh...Mandate for thirty years and created nothing. The Palestinians would have been better off without the administrative assistance and advice of the British.

Palestine was a functioning society -- as long as it was governed. The test is SELF government.

Fail.
 

Sixties Fan

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RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

It was understood at the time, that these were considered part of the self-governing institutions.

When were the British ever tasked with establishing a post office, monetary system, etc.?
(OBSERVATIONS)

In 1948, there was no internet. In many countries, the Post Office ran all types of communication. For a start-up government (TurnKey Operation), the Mandatory Power had to help Israel to have a seamless transition between what the British were running and its handover to the Israelis.

  • An internationally recognized bank had to be put in place to that there would be an Israeli currency on day one, with an umbilical to the international level exchange.
  • The utilities and transportation system, heretofore paid by the British, had to be reckoned with, so that trains, water, electricity, and shipping could be maintained.
There were actions, behind the scenes, that introduced Israel to these critical function. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate.

The military construction engineers, among many other things, built the Allenby Bridge and many Trestles.

The Military, protected many of the assets that were used to establish powerlines and water systems, that would have been stolen if left to the Arabs.

Then, there were organizations like the Black Hand that needed to be dealt with in a more permanent way.

See: United Nations Palestine Commission during its deliberations from 9 January to 17 May 1948. It will give you a better insight into the meaning of "establishing self-governing institutions."

Most Respectfully,
R
How much military force is required to establish a post office, monetary system, etc.?

I was only using these as examples. Palestine was a functioning society. They had districts centered around population centers and local governments. The only thing they needed were some national institutions, like a post office, for example. Britain had its occu...er...ahh...Mandate for thirty years and created nothing. The Palestinians would have been better off without the administrative assistance and advice of the British.
Exactly how did the Mandates for Lebanon, Syria and Iraq get to become countries and Self governed with the British or the French being there?

It was up to whom to create schools, post offices, hospitals, etc and become self sufficient and show the Allies that they could be Independent of other's help before they were finally recognize as self sufficient States/Countries?

That is what the Jews did.

What did the Arab leaders make the Arab population do instead of building their own State from 1920 to 1948?

They declared war on the Jews and the British, wanting to keep the whole land to themselves and make it part of a whole pie, for Muslims only.

Wasted time, wasted space, wasted lives, wasted........is the history of the Arabs in what could have become two more states, not counting TranJordan, from 1937 on, when a partition was first offered to the Arab leaders.

What did they say?

NO

And by all mean, keep forgetting that ALL who lived in the Mandate for Palestine, ALL, were being called Palestinians with the ability of getting a Palestinian Passport if they so desired.

But mostly Jews accepted that name, and those passports, and the Arabs kept crying to become part of Syria.

The Arabs rejected, the Jews accepted.

And we continue to see which ones became prosperous and which ones continue to live in the 7th century CE, or even in the 7th century BCE.
 

Hollie

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RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

It was understood at the time, that these were considered part of the self-governing institutions.

When were the British ever tasked with establishing a post office, monetary system, etc.?
(OBSERVATIONS)

In 1948, there was no internet. In many countries, the Post Office ran all types of communication. For a start-up government (TurnKey Operation), the Mandatory Power had to help Israel to have a seamless transition between what the British were running and its handover to the Israelis.

  • An internationally recognized bank had to be put in place to that there would be an Israeli currency on day one, with an umbilical to the international level exchange.
  • The utilities and transportation system, heretofore paid by the British, had to be reckoned with, so that trains, water, electricity, and shipping could be maintained.
There were actions, behind the scenes, that introduced Israel to these critical function. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate.

The military construction engineers, among many other things, built the Allenby Bridge and many Trestles.

The Military, protected many of the assets that were used to establish powerlines and water systems, that would have been stolen if left to the Arabs.

Then, there were organizations like the Black Hand that needed to be dealt with in a more permanent way.

See: United Nations Palestine Commission during its deliberations from 9 January to 17 May 1948. It will give you a better insight into the meaning of "establishing self-governing institutions."

Most Respectfully,
R
Informative as usual, Rocco.

Ultimately, I was attempting to suggest to PF Tinmore that the attitude of the Arabs-Moslems is that everyone else is tasked with providing for them, catering to their every wish and then, when the Arabs-Moslems fail to take steps to improve their situation, it’s always someone else’s fault.

It’s really quite a contrast to see what others in Vietnam, Korea, Hong Kong and India have accomplished despite their histories. Why is it that so many societies have risen above difficult circumstances and taken control of their destinies as opposed to the perpetual whining of Arabs-Moslems who demand others take responsibility for their continually poor decision making.
 

P F Tinmore

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RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

It was understood at the time, that these were considered part of the self-governing institutions.

When were the British ever tasked with establishing a post office, monetary system, etc.?
(OBSERVATIONS)

In 1948, there was no internet. In many countries, the Post Office ran all types of communication. For a start-up government (TurnKey Operation), the Mandatory Power had to help Israel to have a seamless transition between what the British were running and its handover to the Israelis.

  • An internationally recognized bank had to be put in place to that there would be an Israeli currency on day one, with an umbilical to the international level exchange.
  • The utilities and transportation system, heretofore paid by the British, had to be reckoned with, so that trains, water, electricity, and shipping could be maintained.
There were actions, behind the scenes, that introduced Israel to these critical function. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate.

The military construction engineers, among many other things, built the Allenby Bridge and many Trestles.

The Military, protected many of the assets that were used to establish powerlines and water systems, that would have been stolen if left to the Arabs.

Then, there were organizations like the Black Hand that needed to be dealt with in a more permanent way.

See: United Nations Palestine Commission during its deliberations from 9 January to 17 May 1948. It will give you a better insight into the meaning of "establishing self-governing institutions."

Most Respectfully,
R
Informative as usual, Rocco.

Ultimately, I was attempting to suggest to PF Tinmore that the attitude of the Arabs-Moslems is that everyone else is tasked with providing for them, catering to their every wish and then, when the Arabs-Moslems fail to take steps to improve their situation, it’s always someone else’s fault.

It’s really quite a contrast to see what others in Vietnam, Korea, Hong Kong and India have accomplished despite their histories. Why is it that so many societies have risen above difficult circumstances and taken control of their destinies as opposed to the perpetual whining of Arabs-Moslems who demand others take responsibility for their continually poor decision making.
It’s really quite a contrast to see what others in Vietnam, Korea, Hong Kong and India have accomplished despite their histories.
None of them are occupied.

I was in Vietnam when it was occupied. It was wall to wall poverty. Cooking rice over an open fire in three walls and a roof shacks.
 
Last edited:

Sixties Fan

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RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

It was understood at the time, that these were considered part of the self-governing institutions.

When were the British ever tasked with establishing a post office, monetary system, etc.?
(OBSERVATIONS)

In 1948, there was no internet. In many countries, the Post Office ran all types of communication. For a start-up government (TurnKey Operation), the Mandatory Power had to help Israel to have a seamless transition between what the British were running and its handover to the Israelis.

  • An internationally recognized bank had to be put in place to that there would be an Israeli currency on day one, with an umbilical to the international level exchange.
  • The utilities and transportation system, heretofore paid by the British, had to be reckoned with, so that trains, water, electricity, and shipping could be maintained.
There were actions, behind the scenes, that introduced Israel to these critical function. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate.

The military construction engineers, among many other things, built the Allenby Bridge and many Trestles.

The Military, protected many of the assets that were used to establish powerlines and water systems, that would have been stolen if left to the Arabs.

Then, there were organizations like the Black Hand that needed to be dealt with in a more permanent way.

See: United Nations Palestine Commission during its deliberations from 9 January to 17 May 1948. It will give you a better insight into the meaning of "establishing self-governing institutions."

Most Respectfully,
R
Informative as usual, Rocco.

Ultimately, I was attempting to suggest to PF Tinmore that the attitude of the Arabs-Moslems is that everyone else is tasked with providing for them, catering to their every wish and then, when the Arabs-Moslems fail to take steps to improve their situation, it’s always someone else’s fault.

It’s really quite a contrast to see what others in Vietnam, Korea, Hong Kong and India have accomplished despite their histories. Why is it that so many societies have risen above difficult circumstances and taken control of their destinies as opposed to the perpetual whining of Arabs-Moslems who demand others take responsibility for their continually poor decision making.
It’s really quite a contrast to see what others in Vietnam, Korea, Hong Kong and India have accomplished despite their histories.
None of them are occupied.

I was in Vietnam when it was occupied. It was wall to wall poverty. Cooking rice over an open fire in three walls and a roof shacks.
The point might be.....

They all went through wars, even colonialism for some, and they have all not held on to feeling sorry for themselves and moved on, and made something out of their countries. South Korea is doing just fine, North Korea .....not so well.
 

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